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My STB is playing up and i'm looking at upgrading.

i'd like to stick to topfield or maybe look at another brand, i know that if i'm going to replace it i want something

top of the range but didn't want to create another brand debate. i heard heard all good things about topfield.

my dilema is that i want a unit that will display HD and have recently noticed there's not much out there in terms of a HD PVR. the reasoning behing getting a PVR is that I can also used it for HD viewing and with the world cup coming up i though it would be ideal timing for a PVR.

would i be right in assuming from my quick search that it's still early days in terms of a HD PVR, if not, a recommendation and expected RRP for a unit would be appreciated. from looking at the masterpiece the price is a bit more than i would have hoped for. any other suggestions on a way around this? could i get away with a HD STB and a DVD-R seperate unit or would this cost be the same as getting a HD STB.

hope this makes sense, sorry a bit rushed this arvo.

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Hi thud,

A HD STB with a seperate DVDR is doable but not a great solution. DVDRs are analogue (DVDs can only record to SD quality resolution anyway.) and you have to make sure the DVDR and the STB are tuned to the same channel to record. Price wise you're probably going to be over $600 with this recording combo.

A PVR sounds exactly like what you would need. You can by a Toppy 5000 (which is practically identical to a MP for about $750). Or even the (again almost the same functionality) Topfield 4400 for about $550. The 4400 differes from the MP and 5000 in that you can't run user written TAPs that ad better functionality (Like better ad skipping or a 7 day EPG).

Have a read of the Toppy FAQ (esp the bit on twin tuners):

http://www.dtvforum.info/index.php?showtopic=16828

Have a general read of the STB and PVR and DVDR FAQ too:

http://www.dtvforum.info/index.php?showtopic=29072

If you are not interested in TAPs a powerful and simple no fuss PVR is the Humax Smart. As powerful as the Toppy (lacks only chaseplay functionality) for about $630.

http://www.dtvforum.info/index.php?showtopic=27386&hl=humax

As to HiDef, well its expensive. So a HD PVR is going to cost. Only 3 models currently available I suspect the latest (and seemingly greatest) Sony might be a bit pricey at $1350 for a bit. However you can get the HiDef LG for around $900. At that price its good value. The unit has a couple of 'quirks' but is generally a good solid unit if you don't record 'tonnes' of TV.

http://www.dtvforum.info/index.php?showtopic=32125

Regards

Peter Gillespie

PS Do you have a HD TV? Out of interest what model and size?

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As to HiDef, well its expensive. So a HD PVR is going to cost. Only 3 models currently available I suspect the latest (and seemingly greatest) Sony might be a bit pricey at $1350 for a bit. However you can get the HiDef LG for around $900. At that price its good value. The unit has a couple of 'quirks' but is generally a good solid unit if you don't record 'tonnes' of TV.
I don't think I realised there were only three. So are they

1.) The Sony (SVRHD700/900)

2.) The LG (LST-5402P HiDef 160G PVR)

3.) The Toshiba (HDD J35)

Are there no others?

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Are there no others?

That's the lot (although the LG also has a 250g model). Some other models (Humax and Topfield and others) are mooted for release in the next 6 months. But for now your choice is:

Toshiba (Mid Priced but still pricey, True Twin Tuner, Bad history of bugs)

LG (Relatively Cheap, 1.7 Twin Tuner (Can't timer record two overlapping shows), bad edit functions and pretty useless SKIP button)

Sony (Very expensive, new kid on the block, Tru Twin tuner, seems pretty well featured and bug free (although its early days)

Regards

Peter Gillespie

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Toshiba (Mid Priced but still pricey, True Twin Tuner, Bad history of bugs)
Yes I was just about to buy this one and read all the negative comments on this forum and pulled out and bought the Toshiba HD stb instead (to get the sound). Regret it a bit. Did not think it through, unlike all my other purchases which are reasonably well researched.

Wish I'd got the Toppy SD PVR (for the same money). If I do this anyway I end up with two bits of conflicting gear and will be switching between them. That might be hard to explain to the other-half. Unless I put it on the other telly. Hmmmm. (To sell the Toshiba S25 would probably be difficult!) :blink:

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Yes I was just about to buy this one and read all the negative comments on this forum and pulled out and bought the Toshiba HD stb instead (to get the sound). Regret it a bit. Did not think it through, unlike all my other purchases which are reasonably well researched.

Wish I'd got the Toppy SD PVR (for the same money). If I do this anyway I end up with two bits of conflicting gear and will be switching between them. That might be hard to explain to the other-half. Unless I put it on the other telly. Hmmmm. (To sell the Toshiba S25 would probably be difficult!) :blink:

Its a big new digital area - hard to make the right decision when you don't have many reference points. You probably know my opinion is that once you get a good twin tuner SD PVR up and running, watching live HiDef TV (with ads) via the STB can become 'irritating'. I think the S25 STB was actually a pretty solid unit, it was more the J35 that had a lot of issues? As you say, its a pricey STB though. You could probably get $250+ for it though? Makes the LG HD PVR only $600? :P The Sony also looks to be dropping reasonably quickly (My guess is it will stabalise around $1200.

Regards

Peter Gillespie

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thanks for the comments guys, it's appreciated

i did look through some of the threads you meantioned pg

to also answer your other questions i do have a HD projector - AE700 it's in my sig.

i know there's not much HD content at the moment, but once i get something i feel i have to get HD as this is the way of the future and content can only increase especially if i'm going to spend that much money on something i think it will be worth it.

at the moment it looks like the LG HD PVR is what will suit my needs, i'm not planning to record heaps of TV and will probably only use it for the world cup, AFL grand finals, RAGE stuff etc.

the gripe i have with LG is the brand as i have noticed it gets a bit of bagging around the place, but seems good value. doesn't seem to be much choice at the moment though.

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....at the moment it looks like the LG HD PVR is what will suit my needs, i'm not planning to record heaps of TV and will probably only use it for the world cup, AFL grand finals, RAGE stuff etc.

the gripe i have with LG is the brand as i have noticed it gets a bit of bagging around the place, but seems good value. doesn't seem to be much choice at the moment though.

I think the reason for the bagging is the support issue but I have no first hand knowledge of this. Only what I've read here.
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AE700 it's in my sig.
Sorry, some of us disable viewing sigs. LG does seem to cop a fair bit of flack. But FWIW the PVR did dissapoint some early buyers but they had pretty high expectations on what they wanted. The PVR seems to work well and is robust and IMO good value for money. Read the FAQ and you should know exactly what you are getting.

On HD, if you are watching via a projector (ie big screen) then I definately recommend HD - whats broadcast might not be 'true' HD most of the time but it looks noticably better on the big screens than SD.

Have fun

Peter Gillespie

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Sorry, some of us disable viewing sigs.
You might find sigs these days are a bit more sensible than they were a few months ago. People seem to be showing reason and limiting then to only a few lines. Good forum etiquette and all that!

I try to have informative links in mine.

Now I'll calmly sit here and wait to get roasted! :blink:

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As an early adopter of the LG 160GB, I havn't been all that disappointed. Sure some functions are a bit clunky or don't work and there was the DLS bug, but even that didn't stop it recording the right program at the right time. In fact I have only just got round to getting the firmware update done.

I am not demanding on the edit functions etc, what I want is to get home and find my favorite show from last week has recorded reliably, and so far the LG has been 100% on this count.

And on a big screen the PQ is great. Much better than the SD Strong 5390.

There are those who say it's not "true twin tuner", but if you think of it as getting a single tuner HD PVR plus a HD STB with timeslip to watch while the PVR is recording it's pretty good value for around $900.

So if that sounds like your needs, it gets my stamp of approval.

Best of luck,

Dik

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FWIW I am on my third PVR.

The first unit was an analogue tuner Samsung HD40A. This was pretty reliable, had few quirks and a usable user interface. Having used it I would never want to be without a PVR. It completely changes your viewing habits.

In September last year I upgraded to a Philips HDMI flat panel, with the Philips DFR9000 receiver and a Toshiba HDD J-35. The flat panel and the receiver have worked well. The only issues I have are problems with DVI input from computers.

The Toshiba was a nice unit from the performance point of view. The user interface left a bit to be desired but it seemed to do the right things. It did however run very hot. After a couple of months it started to freeze up and this got progressively worse. It was swapped out for another unit, but this had the same problems only worse.

I then got it swapped for the LG LST-5403P. I kept this just long enough to satify myself that it was completely unusable. I would rather have the old analogue Samsung than the LG. It was extremely slow in everything it did. For example, after skipping forward while playing a recording, it would take 4 or 5 seconds to display the video at the new play point. This makes finding a point in a long recording difficult and frustrating. An HDMI connection to the DFR9000 plain did not work. I think this thing is a dog.

Today I got it swapped for Sony PVR-HD900. This cost more but so far it is worth every cent. In the words of the Honda ad, "Isn't it nice when it just works!" Unless it proves to have some reliability issues down the track, it is much the best PVR I have had. The user interface is clear and logically thought out. The functionality is excellent and the speed of response to commands good. I like it.

Best of luck with your quest.

Bill

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FWIW I am on my third PVR.

The first unit was an analogue tuner Samsung HD40A. This was pretty reliable, had few quirks and a usable user interface. Having used it I would never want to be without a PVR. It completely changes your viewing habits.

In September last year I upgraded to a Philips HDMI flat panel, with the Philips DFR9000 receiver and a Toshiba HDD J-35. The flat panel and the receiver have worked well. The only issues I have are problems with DVI input from computers.

The Toshiba was a nice unit from the performance point of view. The user interface left a bit to be desired but it seemed to do the right things. It did however run very hot. After a couple of months it started to freeze up and this got progressively worse. It was swapped out for another unit, but this had the same problems only worse.

I then got it swapped for the LG LST-5403P. I kept this just long enough to satify myself that it was completely unusable. I would rather have the old analogue Samsung than the LG. It was extremely slow in everything it did. For example, after skipping forward while playing a recording, it would take 4 or 5 seconds to display the video at the new play point. This makes finding a point in a long recording difficult and frustrating. An HDMI connection to the DFR9000 plain did not work. I think this thing is a dog.

Today I got it swapped for Sony PVR-HD900. This cost more but so far it is worth every cent. In the words of the Honda ad, "Isn't it nice when it just works!" Unless it proves to have some reliability issues down the track, it is much the best PVR I have had. The user interface is clear and logically thought out. The functionality is excellent and the speed of response to commands good. I like it.

Best of luck with your quest.

Bill

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thanks guys

i dont want to buy something if it's not 100% as i have been down that road in the past and don't wish go down it again.

price is still ridiculous i feel for a HD STB and there's not much choice, i will have to weigh it all up soon and decide. will let you know how i go.

oh yeh and pajero - wtf?

btw speaking to a few sales people drones today i was advised on a few occasions that the LG is "bug free" and "nothing wrong with it". i'm still keeping an open mind on the LG as my recording needs aren't great but will be dissapointed once I get it to put up with poor functionality....

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Most of us who still have the J35's are very happy with them.

With the benefit of hindsight, it appears there were two problems, firmware and hardware.

Castles firmware support was second to none, they released (uumm...) four or five upgrades in a relatively short period of time.

Hardware issues seemed to fall into two categories, faulty units, and faulty units that could be fixed by re-aligning the front-panel cable.

It is worthy of note that no "new" buyers of the J35 have turned up here asking for help or complaining about their units.

It would seem that the latest shipments have ironed out the initial problems............

Mine works just fine, true twin-tuner, chase-play, time-shift, recording, whatever I ask of it.

Austen.

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oh yeh and pajero - wtf?
Yes, thought the same. What's the point of doing that. BTW, do you know what pajero means in Spanish?
It is worthy of note that no "new" buyers of the J35 have turned up here asking for help or complaining about their units.
One of the prominent local Perth HT shops pushes them quite hard and reckons all the problems have been sorted. It was where I would have bought mine but I bailed. In some ways I wish I hadn't.
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i'm almost 100% there with my decision

i have decided on the TF7000HT

just a HD STB

i figure i don't do any recording of tv now so why start.

i wanted something decent this time - hence the toppy choice.

the lack of choice in PVR's, still being new technology (bugs) and price have put me off a PVR for the time being. after reading the massive Sony post it seems that's the best choice at the moment but again the price was a turn off as i think a 250GB would be the minimum I would get. as i said i don't do a lot of recording but once i have it i will take advantage of it and it's like the old addage of never having enough HDD

cheers all

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Good luck, let us know what you think of the 7000 STB when you get it. If you don't record now then a STB is a good choice. The only last thoughts I had are:

1) A PVR has one really neat feature, which is the ability to PAUSE LIVE TV

2) Not sure what time the World Cup is on? A bit of recorded TIMESHIFTING might be handy?

As mentioned the LG is generally fine. If you just use it to change channels then it makes a great HD STB with great PQ - no ones complained about this side of it. If you don't want to record two things at once by timer (and I suspect you don't) then its also fine. Finally if you don't want to edit the recordings then the LG is also great.

I guess what I'm saying is that while a product may have some bugs, if they are in an area you never use anyway, why include it in your criteria?

Regardless, It sounds like you might be having a few mates over to your house when the cup starts :blink:

Enjoy

Peter Gillespie

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Yes, thought the same. What's the point of doing that. BTW, do you know what pajero means in Spanish?

Well I was going to post something then got called away from the computer......Accidently clicked the wrong button................sorry to cause such you so much distress!!!! :blink:

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Good luck, let us know what you think of the 7000 STB when you get it. If you don't record now then a STB is a good choice. The only last thoughts I had are:

1) A PVR has one really neat feature, which is the ability to PAUSE LIVE TV

2) Not sure what time the World Cup is on? A bit of recorded TIMESHIFTING might be handy?

As mentioned the LG is generally fine. If you just use it to change channels then it makes a great HD STB with great PQ - no ones complained about this side of it. If you don't want to record two things at once by timer (and I suspect you don't) then its also fine. Finally if you don't want to edit the recordings then the LG is also great.

I guess what I'm saying is that while a product may have some bugs, if they are in an area you never use anyway, why include it in your criteria?

Regardless, It sounds like you might be having a few mates over to your house when the cup starts :blink:

Enjoy

Peter Gillespie

points taken peter

i agree that once i have a PVR i will almost certainly find uses for it but maybe not at the moment, by the time i'm ready maybe they will be around the $500 mark

your posts have been very informative to me

keep up your good work around the forum - your input is appreciated

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You can always 'send' the signal from a STB to a DVDR. But the later is an analogue device. No point sending HiDef to it (as it will effectively be down converted). Have a read of the pinned STB/DVDR/PVR FAQ in the harddrive recorder branch on the advantages and (mostly IMO) disadvantages of having a STB/DVDR combo.

Regards

Peter Gillespie

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yeah i understand that but i just saw on sony sony's website a unit with HDD and DVD-R.

while you can't record HD on DVD-R I'm assuming you can store HD content on the hard drive and if you do want the option to burn to DVD at least it's there, this makes more practical sense to me as with a PVR you can never back up anything it's always on the HDD

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I'm assuming you can store HD content on the hard drive
- Nope. A DVDR is a 100% ANALOGUE beast. You can send a HD signal to it from a STB/PVR but it will convert/compress it to analogue for storing on the harddrive. That said on the 'highest' quality settings on some DVDRs the stored file will look pretty close to HiDef (but the file will be huge and you'd get about 20 minutes onto a DVD).

Basically if you are wanting to extract recordings eventually there is really very little point in dealing with HiDef. That's why they are busy inventing the HD-DVD format.

Regards

Peter Gillespie

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i'm going crazy :blink:

keep changing my mind........

i am now leaning to the topfield TF5000 PVR as I can see the value of being able to record things.

im basinc my latest decision in that there's not much HD content that is available at the moment anyway and i think being able to record is more important than just viewing HD. i will probably get a better picture than my current Digicrystal POS anyway.

any other input or suggestions to my current line of thinking????

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hi thudabot

i have done a similar task recently. i have a HD plasma, and was tossing up over HD PVR or SD PVR.

My feeling is that with such limited HD content, I preferred to sit out of the HD PVR game for the next 6-12 months until the prices dropped and the feature set matures.

So i went and bought a twin tuner SD pvr instead. PQ is the same as you would get throuth the HD pvr for 95% of whats on tv, so I didnt see the advantage of paying $1300 for HD when almost everything I watch is SD.

Almost bought the toppy 5000pvrt, which is a great machine, but ended up taking a risk on a relatively unknown pvr from mediastar (review in the dvd/hdd recorder thread if you are interested). Does everything I want out of the box, and was only $550. Much more palatable than $1300 for the sony.

Good luck!

Dave

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any other input or suggestions to my current line of thinking????

Get a hold of your self man! :blink:

We'll it shouldn't be too hard to sort out the 'best' approach...

World cup, AFL grand finals, RAGE stuff etc - We'll some of that's pretty much only going to be doable by recording. Also keep in mind that even for live TV a PVR is neat because you can pause live TV at any point and wander off for a while.

Buy the sounds of it you'll record very little anyway, so multi tuner recording capability would seem of little value. As would loading 'TAPs' onto a Toppy via a PC. As would a 7 day EPG.

You have a big screen projector. And while crusher is correct that 95% of TV isn't 'true' HD, it is still all upscaled by the stations - so you definately end up with a better picture than just SD (maybe 1.5 times?)

Taking all this into account I would recommend the new 160G LG HD PVR. Had some teething issues in the first month or two out but those have been sorted. Aside from its inability to TIMER record two things at once its generally a very usable HiDef PVR - Excellent interface and usability and highly regarded PQ.

And the kicker is its available for around $900! That's only about $150 more than a Toppy and you won't be forever wondering if you should have gone HiDef. Have a read of the FAQ again and see what you reckon:

http://www.dtvforum.info/index.php?showtopic=32125

If you decide no on the LG then you're basically saying you don't want a HiDef PVR at this point. In which case Crushers MediaStar ($550) is well worth a look, but the Toppy 4400 would also fit the bill ($550) - although its less kitted out than the MediaStar. And the Humax Smart is a winner (although a bit more expensive).

Otherwise, You can by a good HD STB for $100 cheaper again...

Good Luck

Peter Gillespie

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cheers for waking me up peter, i was mainly looking at a pvr for the world cup, apart from that i don't record much but i will once i have it i'm sure.

price was another issue but i can source the lg for a good price.

i think this is it - LG. the only thing that put me off was the brand name, but saying that i own an LG CRT had it for like 8 years, LG DVD and they seem fine (touch wood) may not have that 'brand' appeal but hey i'll get a 3 year warranty to be sure.

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cheers for waking me up peter, i was mainly looking at a pvr for the world cup, apart from that i don't record much but i will once i have it i'm sure.

price was another issue but i can source the lg for a good price.

i think this is it - LG. the only thing that put me off was the brand name, but saying that i own an LG CRT had it for like 8 years, LG DVD and they seem fine (touch wood) may not have that 'brand' appeal but hey i'll get a 3 year warranty to be sure.

I bought the 160Gb LG PVR about 2 - 3 weeks ago for $800 with 2 int free from DJ's in Perth CBD. I bought it especially for the World cup and it's great. Yeah it has some small issues... the skip button is a waste of time, and occasionally the audio is out of sync in HD (usually sorts itself out pretty quick though), but overall I really like it. Even the gf has got used to it. PQ is awesome on my Acer 37" LCD.

Cheers!

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the skip button is a waste of time
hi dater, don't know if you read that the skip is actually hardcoded at 3.33% of the file length. So as long as you know that going in to a playback you can skip a reliable amount (eg if its a 60 minute show its 2 minutes). Still not great but at least its not random.

Regards

Peter Gillespie

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I bought the 160Gb LG PVR about 2 - 3 weeks ago for $800 with 2 int free from DJ's in Perth CBD. I bought it especially for the World cup and it's great. Yeah it has some small issues... the skip button is a waste of time, and occasionally the audio is out of sync in HD (usually sorts itself out pretty quick though), but overall I really like it. Even the gf has got used to it. PQ is awesome on my Acer 37" LCD.

Cheers!

DAter,

I'm very interested in your post as I was contemplating doing the same thing as you. What did you pay for the ACER? I was on that track but am worrying bout the pq of the Analogue tuner on the ACER. I was switching to the 37" LG. Have you found the LG Recorder alright?

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hi dater, don't know if you read that the skip is actually hardcoded at 3.33% of the file length. So as long as you know that going in to a playback you can skip a reliable amount (eg if its a 60 minute show its 2 minutes). Still not great but at least its not random.

Regards

Peter Gillespie

Hi Peter,

No I didn't know that, thanks for the info. It's still pretty useless.... most ad breaks are only a minute or so.

Oh well..

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DAter,

I'm very interested in your post as I was contemplating doing the same thing as you. What did you pay for the ACER? I was on that track but am worrying bout the pq of the Analogue tuner on the ACER. I was switching to the 37" LG. Have you found the LG Recorder alright?

I paid $2800 for the ACER 37" DTV version with 2 years int free from DJ's in Perth CBD about 3 weeks ago. I know you can get better prices for cash. Problem here in Perth is only DJ's and Retrovision sell em as far as I know.

I also got the LG PVR at the same time for $800 on 2 years as well. I know that $800 is a good price, as I have a friend who is a sales dude at the Good Guys and the best he could do was about $830 or so. He usually can give me cost plus a few percent.

The PVR works well on my TV. I actually haven't tried the Analogue tuner, as the Acer does come with a built in SD tuner, which looks good. Not as good as the LG PVR, but good enough. The menus, PQ and ease of use of the LG make it worth purchasing, but the in built SD tuner would be suitable for while.

I looked at the LG 37", both the one with inbuilt tuner and the older one without. From what research I could do on the web, as well as comparing them and the Acer both side by side at the store I decided the Acer was the best, and the cheapest.

The Acer does have issues.... there is a huge thread about them around here somewhere... but for me, no probs. I would recommend it. In fact I was telling my gf last night she had better watch out... if there was a fire in our house, the first thing I would grab would be the TV, and then the PVR, and then her. She wasn't that impressed. Women.....

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Thanks for that Dater,

I'm having kittens trying to decide on a set-up and the WC is just around the corner. Recently I thought I might go with a 81cm with inbuilt hd tuner for $2200. That would probably save me a grand or more for the equivalent in ACER. I am also considering Reality tvs ( a brand) which are real cheap also. There are so many variables my had is swimming. There is also the Samsung 725p HDD DVD recorder. So as you can see every bit of info is valuable in trying to decide. BTW, I'm not sure I could carry both the ACER and the wife in case of fire...

Go the Socceroos...

I paid $2800 for the ACER 37" DTV version with 2 years int free from DJ's in Perth CBD about 3 weeks ago. I know you can get better prices for cash. Problem here in Perth is only DJ's and Retrovision sell em as far as I know.

I also got the LG PVR at the same time for $800 on 2 years as well. I know that $800 is a good price, as I have a friend who is a sales dude at the Good Guys and the best he could do was about $830 or so. He usually can give me cost plus a few percent.

The PVR works well on my TV. I actually haven't tried the Analogue tuner, as the Acer does come with a built in SD tuner, which looks good. Not as good as the LG PVR, but good enough. The menus, PQ and ease of use of the LG make it worth purchasing, but the in built SD tuner would be suitable for while.

I looked at the LG 37", both the one with inbuilt tuner and the older one without. From what research I could do on the web, as well as comparing them and the Acer both side by side at the store I decided the Acer was the best, and the cheapest.

The Acer does have issues.... there is a huge thread about them around here somewhere... but for me, no probs. I would recommend it. In fact I was telling my gf last night she had better watch out... if there was a fire in our house, the first thing I would grab would be the TV, and then the PVR, and then her. She wasn't that impressed. Women.....

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BTW, I'm not sure I could carry both the ACER and the wife in case of fire...

Oh, I wouldn't carry them all at once... I'm not that strong. There'd have to be three trips, moving all the "important" items out of the fire.

Actually come to think about, I'd need the PC as well, so looks like she's booted to 4th spot :blink:

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