Toshiba - 72" 1080p DLP RPTV - Details and Price

[Mr.Bitey]

Klone,

I recall reading something about the newer ATI drivers ballsing up powerstrip... I think v6.1 and after..

Im using 5.9 and powerstrip 1776x1000 with some fine adjustments courtesy of the service menu..

Cheers,

Bitey

[KLoNe1503559836]

Thanks for the reply man. Hmmm, worth it going back? Man, I should have bought a 7900GTX

Looks like the 6.4 Drivers are causing a lot of trouble. I'll go way back to 5.9 and see how I do

[Mr.Bitey]

I think you miss out on some avivo features if you go under 6.1 - Again this is from memory, best do some searching to find the real deal..

Cheers,

Bitey

[KLoNe1503559836]

Gah, worst over every worlds :| Heh, I'll sort something out. Damn ATI! It's like a workhorse, with no work to do

[paul_c100]

Hey Paul C100, I am very serious about getting the Toshiba 62 or 72inch as soon as my TV unit arrives in 4-5 weeks. Now that you have been viewing the set for a good amount of time, have you seen any false contouring (im not sure if that this is what its called). I noticed it when comparing the JVC and the TOSHI side by side. The only thing that I noticed about the Toshi was occasionaly the screen had a small distortion when light gradually turned into a darker area. eg. when watching the tones of blue in the sky go from light to darker and sometimes I noticed the skin on peoples faces somehow distort with movement. Is this called "clay faces"? I was watching a SD show through a Toshiba HD STB with HDMI running to the Toshi and component to the JVC. I didnt see any of these distortions on the JVC. If anyone else can give some first hand info on this subject I would be greatfull as $7000 is a lot of money for a TV and I want to get it right.

Hi. Sorry for the delay in responding. I've been busy setting up my HTPC with MCE !! Anyway, in relation to your question, I haven't noticed any problems with the display at all, other than those caused by the source display device. For example, when I first viewed the TV at Harvey Norman there was jumpiness when a High Def TV image was panned across the landscape. I thought this was the TV intially, until I saw it on another display off the other box. Since then, I have found problems with my HTPC etc, but they have been also visable on my other display devices. So I can't say I have seen anything which the display was responsible for. Having said that, there could be problems, I just haven't noticed them.

You mentioned the JVC as an alternative. My only comment would be that this display is not 1080p and therefore the underlying screen resolution is simply much lower than the Toshiba or LG LCos. Having watched a lot of HighDef content via Microsoft Media Centre Edition I can say I continue to be blown away by this device. The picture quality is still stunning. When I am watching HDTV, I'm watching about 20% of the picture, 80% content !!

I can't believe the difference and the apparent lack of effort of the retailer to show off a $7000 Tv to the best of it's capability. As just prieviously mentioned, I spent some time comparing the Toshi to the JVC side by side. Today I went down to JB @ Stafford (Brisy store) and I could not believe how poor the picture was compared to the HN SD free to air transmission. They were playing Charlie and th chocolate factory through a Yamaha DVD (not sure of cabling) and it looked wowfull!! They had,nt even chose the correct aspect ratio on the Player or set? because all the Umpalumpas were 2 foot instead of 4. I also noted that the images from this movie were extremely soft especialy skin texture. Maybe they have such a turnover of stock that they dont care for the few that actualy can see these faults (obvious to us) and sell as per there monthly quota's??? I do'nt want to condem all sales people and I want to commend one particular guy at HN Aspley for his knowledge and helpfullness with Demoing of the Toshi & JVC as he was very easy to get along with and knew what he was talking about. He was very profesional and did not bag any one product or opposition and just pointed out facts and the pros/Cons of each TV. I think I will take a couple of DVD's to HN/ Clive Peters or Anthony (whatever) and view the LG,JVC, TOSHI on the same day and buy on that day. I might even take my DVD player to make sure the stakes are at an even. Anal??? yeh maybe but I dont buy a TV of this price too often and we all know how a particular set can be grossly missrepresented by a poor retailers set up. I might just go to Sunnybank and save a lot of time.

Good idea about taking your DVD down, but i would also checkout a High Def Box running HDMI .. This way you can see how the unit can perform. To be honest, given the size of the screen, standard DVD via component is not as good as via HDMI upscaled to 1080i. Given it's easy to do this, you should check out the screens on that basis. Good luck !!

Ok. Back into it.

DVI-HDMI Cable turned up yesterday, along with my new GFX card: X1900XT (OC'd to X1900XTX and then some ).

Straight up. ATI drivers are just terrible compared the the easy to use nVidia ones. ATI is just a pain to setup.

After awhile, I had the vid card spitting out a 1080i image to the Toshi, and yeah, it does look REALLY nice. A much clearer picture then on my Hitachi 47" CRT Rear Pro.

But.... Got some problems.

Is there a good way of doing custom resolutions with the ATI card (first time ATI user)? I've ended up getting PowerStrip and trying that, but whenever trying to run 1808x1017 or 1840x1035 on the Toshi, the screen just goes black (remembering, these resolutions worked fine on the 7800GTX)

Does anyone have any help for me?

MANY thanks,

Chris

I can't help you on the ATI card as I got frustrated with my ATI card and just bought a Nvidia 7800GT extreme. I am extremely happy with this card. The picture quality is amazing and the speed is sensational. It would be unlikely that I will every buy ATI again. There drivers are crap and if they make a product that doesn't support 1080i via DVI then thats not acceptable.

Good luck though ...

[KLoNe1503559836]

Nahh, it displays 1080i fine, just custom resolutions are giving me the hibby jibbies.

[k1w1]

As mentioned in an other thread, i am about to build a new house and kiss my current HT (Sony HS10 projector) goodbye. As a replacement i was going to purchase a Toshiba, LG or Sony 1920x1080 rear pro and run it via DVI/HDMI from an HTPC.

All this talk of overscan is starting to scare me a little bit.

Currently i have my projector and HTPC setup to 1:1 pixel match the native resolution of the PJ (1366x768) and have no overscan. DVD, Digital TV etc.. are scaled to the native resolution.

Are things different with Rear Pros?

k1w1

[KLoNe1503559836]

All I can say at the moment man, is go nVidia Overscan is a super breeze with nV!

[Mr.Bitey]

k1w1,

rear pro's are tv's - so there is overscan built into them.. You can reduce this a few ways but usually cannot totally remove it without loosing a little resolution.

Cheers,

Bitey

[Guest Sparky66]

k1w1,

rear pro's are tv's - so there is overscan built into them.. You can reduce this a few ways but usually cannot totally remove it without loosing a little resolution.

Cheers,

Bitey

I doubt you'd lose any resolution by reducing overscan - quite the opposite. Rear projection TV's implicitly overscan or else you would see the very irregular and very ugly crooked border surrounding the image on the display. This is a common trait of all RPTV's with fresnel based screens with a projection lens.

[O-3]

Keep at it Klone, I'm watching with interest.

Regarding the custom resolutions, why do you want to run them?, whats wrong with 1920x1080?

[Owen]

Actually ALL TV’s overscan for the same reason, it’s just that RPTV’s achieve it by designing the optics to project an image larger then the viable screen area, where as flat panels do it with scaling.

It does not mean that 1:1 mapping is not possible, because it normally is, it’s just that the edge of video images was never intended to be visible on a TV.

A custom resolution is normally the only solution on a digital RPTV, unless you want to physically modify the set by installing a zoom lens, or possibly reportioning the light engine closer to the mirror to reduce the projected image size.

Neither option is practical, so get used to the idea of custom resolutions.

No service mode adjustment can correct for this without using scaling.

Remember also that TV’s usually only accept standard HDTV resolutions, and not arbitrary resolutions like a PC monitor, so custom resolutions have to be set up INSIDE standard HDTV resolutions.

For example, a custom overscan corrected resolution of 1776x1000 can be set up INSIDE a standard 1920x1080i 50/60Hz resolution.

In this way the TV receives a standard 1920x1080i signal, but the desktop only occupies the centre 1776x1000, with a black border surrounding it to use up the remaining resolution.

The better player applications allow you to display 1080i/p video 1:1 mapped on a 1776x1000 desktop by cropping the edges of the image so only the centre 1776x1000 is visible.

This gives exactly the same or slightly better results as using a normal stand alone HD STB or HD DVD player outputting 1080i/p.

When using upscaling DVD players, HD STB’s and the new BlyRay-HDDVD players with a TV you ALWAYS get overscan.

[KLoNe1503559836]

Tried again playing with refresh rates with no luck. I'm just go confused, as the 7800GTX ran it at ALL resolutions with no bother at all.

The X1900XT is playing up all over the shop. Best I can get is 1776x1000 and I just wont put up with it.

Owen, have you had any experience with ATI cards before? I could really use some help.

I really don't want to put my X1900XT up for sale after 2 days

[com59841503560232]

Prices pm'd to those who enquired.

can you pm price please

[dlpnut1503560389]

can you pm price please

His prices were ;

Hopefully im not breaking any forum rules here.

62inch $5300

72inch $6900

Like I said the 62 inch for 5k is a great price, so anywhere around that mark your doing well.

You can get better prices at Sunnybank.T

[Owen]

Tried again playing with refresh rates with no luck. I'm just go confused, as the 7800GTX ran it at ALL resolutions with no bother at all.

The X1900XT is playing up all over the shop. Best I can get is 1776x1000 and I just wont put up with it.

Owen, have you had any experience with ATI cards before? I could really use some help.

I really don't want to put my X1900XT up for sale after 2 days

Interlaced output works ok on the older 9xxx Radeons that I have used, but I believe the X1800- X1900 Radeons (maybe other X series as well) have unresolved issues with 1080i output over DVI.

1080i over Component does work as far as I know on those cards.

Have a dig around on AVS forum, and see if anyone has 1080i custom resolutions working properly from an X1800-X1900 over DVI.

I seem to remember that Vern Dias had a lot of dramas getting an X1800 to output proper 1080i to his 1080p projector, and that the developer of Power Strip was having similar problems.

ATI had no solution at the time, but that was a couple on months ago, so maybe you will be lucky.

Why did you go for an X1900 over a 7900 when you knew a 7800 worked?

I guess you’re a gamer, right?

[KLoNe1503559836]

Hehe, thanks Owen

Yep, you guessed it HDTV Gamer by trade (no,.. just by choice ). I have spoken with Vern Dias and yeah, he has had the same problems. I still haven't tried it with Component yet, so I will try tonight.

Am I on the right track thinking it is the interlacing which is stinking everything up?

Why is 1776x1000 working and not the Custom Resolutions (1808x1017)? That's what put me onto it being a refresh problem with PowerStrip. I wont live with 1776x1000 when I know that the higher res is avaliable and able to be done (on a 7800GTX at least )

I'm not going to sell this beast, I will get around this damn disease this card has. I'll try the 6.3 drivers as well tonight.

Thanks for your help though Owen. With your help and Vern's, I hope to get this sorted out.

Chris

[Owen]

Gday Chris,

Whatever custom resolution you choose, it should be divisible by 8.

1017 divide by 8 = 127.125, so that wont work.

1000 divided by 8 = 125 clean.

Does 1776x1000 produce underscan on the Toshi?

You need to find a resolution that provides a little overscan, or video will look crappy with ragged edges etc.

Good luck dude.

[Doug1503559538]

I’m glad you find you Foxtel picture so pleasing, but my expectations of a quality picture are obviously very different to yours.

Foxtel is heavily compressed, and to achieve an image free of blocking and pixelation, pre filtering of the video is used.

This filtering removes the high frequency content (fine detail) of the video to make it much easier to compress effectively.

I have been viewing Foxtel –Austar for 6 years, and have used 5 different decoder boxes.

While quality has improved significantly over the last 6 years, it is still at best only about 60-70% of DVD or free to air digital TV quality, and only 20-30% of 1080i.

Even using high quality scaling and processing via a top spec HTPC cannot create a silk purse out of a sows ear.

I don’t wish to denigrate Foxtel – Austar, unduly as without it, I would not watch TV at all.

However picture quality is definitely very ordinary on a big screen, viewed up close.

At what distance do you view your Toshi.?

On my hi-end HD Plasma I find Foxtel Digital (via cable) as good as DVD or SD FTA as long as the source material is good enough i.e. Box Office movies etc.

I can see no real difference between the 3 even when I go up really close to the screen to compare PQ.

[KLoNe1503559836]

Damn, divisible by 8 ey?

Yeah 1776x1000 has about 1.1cms of underscan.

I was starting to be ok with it, but who am I trying to kid?

Thanks Owen

[CheesyMong]

Just confirming that the line in the manual that states "Do not plug a PC into any other port other than the RGB port" is not really relevant. I beleive there are no issues using the component or HDMI ports to plug the media PCs into.

Is this correct.

Cheers

[Gladus Maximus]

Thanks for the feedback Paul c100 its good to see a Forum working like this. Does anyone have any idea how long the DLP color wheel lasts. I heard it spins at around 15000 rpm and from what I am aware, any moving part has a certain amount of friction and subsequent wear.

[KLoNe1503559836]

I AM WINNAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I finally got my damn X1900XT to run at 1820x1024!!!

Running much more stable now as well as I'm not using ATITool and have moved to ATI Overclocker.

Thanks for eveyones help!

[paul_c100]

Thanks for the feedback Paul c100 its good to see a Forum working like this. Does anyone have any idea how long the DLP color wheel lasts. I heard it spins at around 15000 rpm and from what I am aware, any moving part has a certain amount of friction and subsequent wear.

This is a good question . I can't answer the question exactly, but I can provide some feedback :

The colour wheel presumably would be on bearings so it should be able to last for a long time. If you consider a HDD it spins at 7200rpm and they have a very long life expectancy and they even get very hot ..

I used to have an LG LCD RPTV. I became fairly good buddies with one of the Tech guys who was constantly coming to service my LG before it was refunded by LG .. I asked him about DLP technology versus LCD .. He said that they had not had to repair many DLPs at all .. Given DLPs have been on the market now for 2-3 years they should be starting to break down .. The tech said that the only problems had been with dust getting into the light tunnel and that was a relatively easy fix ..

Next, before buying my Toshiba, I spoke to Castel tech support about the colour wheel and the DLP engine .. In relation to the colour wheel apparantly they can be replaced and it's not a huge repair .. In relation to the DLP engine (The chip) they said it was very reliable .. I did some further research and apparantly the DLP light engines are generally reliable and don't seem to 'wear out' so to speak .. I hav elocated the following passage from www.plasmadepot.com :

A DLP-based HDTV set should last indefinitely because the digital micromirror device behind it is very reliable. There is no maintenance or alignment required for DLP based sets as they age. The only consumer replaceable component is the DLP light source (lamp) which will last for 8,000 hours and costs around $250 to replace. The micro-mirrors used in DLP are not subject to degradation due to heat, humidity, vibration or "burn-in".

According to Lars Yoder of Texas Instruments "To test hinge failure, approximately 100 different DMD's (i.e. the DLP chip) were subjected to a simulated 1-year operational period. Some devices have been tested for more than 1 trillion cycles, equivalent to 20 years of operation. Inspection of the devices after these tests showed no broken hinges on any of the devices. Hinge failure is not a factor in DMD reliability".

"The DMD has passed all standard semiconductor qualification tests. It has also passed a barrage of tests meant to simulate actual DMD environmental operating conditions, including thermal shock, temperature cycling, moisture resistance, mechanical shock, vibration, and acceleration testing. Based on thousands of hours of life and environmental testing, the DMD and DLP systems exhibit inherent reliability".

This makes me fairly comfortable, however, I chose the 5 year extended warranty just to be on the safe side. For an extra $200 on a $7,000 TV I thought it was a good value deal ..

[paul_c100]

I have located a great explaination of DLP technology ..

Here