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Pana Vs NEC

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So a juddering Fujitsu panel is due to a fault but a juddering NEC could not be due to a fault.

I think it's the Fujitsu owners that are smoking something.

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There's a possibility that it may not solarise as much as the previous model when you set it to 50Hz, it could be worth checking out.

Now all Marcelo needs to do is read through all 78 pages of that NEC thread to find out how to get into the service menu and change it to 50Hz :blink:

Hey Foggy... I've read the 78 pages on the AVS forum in the US ... and read the manual a few times... even the installers are waiting for the 'service manuals' to be delivered...... yap... these are the traits of a geek for sure!

I think I'll have a break from this 'homework' now and try the pio pro..... :P

Note that there will always be some judder present for films, as they are shot at 24fps and suffer from a natural film motion judder. Its native video sources (anything shot at 50i or 60i such as news, current affairs and sport) that should be used for testing for motion problems.

Hey Darklord - thanks for the advice... I didn't really think about film and 24fps... so the ultimate test would have been the 7HD TV @ native 50hz news ticker..... which had lots of judder...

let's see if the new panel the shop installs also has judder or not.... fingers crossed...

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I thought you sold it for $3000?

Nah, the guy I was talking to off ebay changed his mind, he wanted to buy it for between $1500 or $2000. I told him you can't have something for nothing in life, and to piss off. :blink: I'm wall mounting it in my room for xbox 360 and buying another plasma for movies,tv etc

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So a juddering Fujitsu panel is due to a fault but a juddering NEC could not be due to a fault.

I think it's the Fujitsu owners that are smoking something.

Fujitsu's are renowned for their smoothness.

NEC's have been plagued in the past with screen judder and that has been widely documented by independant professional reviewers.

However I think NEC has made inroads into fixing this problem.

The only thing I see a Fujitsu owner smoking is a Large Cuban Cigar with a French Cognac.

:blink:

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Hi,

Since it seems that the nec xr models don't accept 50hz native res. through hdmi can we expect a different behaviour from the commercial series through dvi.

Thanks

Andrea

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Fujitsu's are renowned for their smoothness.

NEC's have been plagued in the past with screen judder and that has been widely documented by independant professional reviewers.

However I think NEC has made inroads into fixing this problem.

The only thing I see a Fujitsu owner smoking is a Large Cuban Cigar with a French Cognac.

:blink:

Exactly, well put.

The Fujitsu's as I have always said myself (and so have countless others) are a superior display.

I think that the NEC's are a good panel however, but not in the league to any Fujitsu and not just because of the judder issue which I myself have also noticed.

Pass me one of those cigars Lasty and pour me some of that Cognac too :P

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Hi,

Since it seems that the nec xr models don't accept 50hz native res. through hdmi can we expect a different behaviour from the commercial series through dvi.

Thanks

Andrea

HI Andrea,

the 42" NEC does accept 50hz through HDMI at standard HD formats (720p & 1080i) - I think it also takes 1080p 60hz via the RGB connection.

the NEC 50 is supposed to take 1080p 60hz via the DVI also.

I looked several times into the manual and couldn't see a DVI or computer match at 60hz for either the 42" or the 50" ... which leads me to think that even though the HDMI may accept connections at 50hz, the panel electronics would then convert that signal to 60hz ....

so ... I don't think the NEC commercial would behave much differently.... HOWEVER ... I read some reviews in the UK of the old NEC model ... through calibration and lots of work, some owners claimed they could not really notice any judder with normal viewing conditions.... however they used an external scaler (Lumagen) to get 1:1 to the panel at 60hz ... and for sport they changed the settings to 720p @ 50hz to reduce judder.... they said they could live with it fine.... and if you have an existing panel is probably a good solution.. however if you are looking for a new panel ... it would be worth to look around first to ensure you'd be really happy with the NEC shortcomings.

this is a real shame for me... I was really, really looking forward to the NEC 42" ..... great image, good quality processing, fantastic black levels, great looks ..... real shame about the judder...

just let me clarify a bit here... the judder is not apparent on every scene....for the most part it would probably go unnoticed to most users...... just on specific settings, as I mentioned before.... slow panning motions and scrolling news tickers.....

I'm really hoping it was a defective panel that I saw which exhibited these symptons.... however I doubt this to be the case.

as I said before.. most people probably would not find this a problem or a hard thing to live with... only people like us (PLUs) in the forum who focus on PQ, analyse the picture, tweek everything and keep looking for faults .... PLUs would definitely notice it....

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Exactly, well put.

The Fujitsu's as I have always said myself (and so have countless others) are a superior display.

I think that the NEC's are a good panel however, but not in the league to any Fujitsu and not just because of the judder issue which I myself have also noticed.

Pass me one of those cigars Lasty and pour me some of that Cognac too :blink:

Be careful guys Dougy boy has already called us snobs what will he said now ?

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It seems there are a few who insist on telling veryone their display is best.

Perhaps it should be reserved.

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I've had a NEC 42XR4W for a couple of weeks now, and haven't seen any judder on anything.

Moving ticker text such as CNNI, Bloom. & scrolling movie titles via Austar are fine, and while I can't recall seeing ticker text on any SD or HD program, panning and scrolling movie text is also OK.

Incidentally, does anyone know if you are supposed to get a warranty card with NEC plasmas? I see NEC Australia's website allows online registration but this requires a warranty card number. Maybe the purchase invoice is fine, but it doesn't have the serial number, and delivery was about a month later. I've asked both NEC Australia and the dealer I bought the plasma from what the situation is, but both are not responding.

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Be careful guys Dougy boy has already called us snobs what will he said now ?

Ang mate - all I can say is "Jolly good show old chap". and vote Liberal.

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big_marcelo,

Thanks for the review. Lots of info in a short time.

Look forward to the review of the Pioneer Professional range.

ok ... so I went to check the Pio 43" Professional......

Quick Review NEC 42 XR4 vs Pio Professional 43"

Links

Link to the Pio Professional panel PDP 43MXE1 (this is the outgoing model the new one is the MXE11) RRP $4,999 at the pioneer website - Link

Link to the NEC 42 XR4 panel (this is the new NEC model, which has the same panel as the next Pioneer and they share many technologies) - RRP $4,500

Link

I did a previous quick review of the NEC 42" Panel - here is the link - Link

The summary of the previous NEC Review is below -

Quick NEC XR4 Test

Final Comments

The NEC has excellent black levels and shows a lot of detail in dark scenes. The colours look natural and saturated, I did not notice any red push. Overall the images were very detailed and crisp - so much so, that there was some grain on the image... once the NR 1 setting was on (NR 1 to 4 is available - 1 is the lowest) and the picture mode set to theatre, the image was still very detailed and crisp but with less grain. I believe once it is properly calibrated, the amount of grain seen should reduce.... but as it was, from 2m away, it was fine.

Which brings me now to the last item.... Judder.... yap .. I could see it on scrolling news ticker and slow panning montion.... not that I'm intending just to watch news tickers or panning motions... but it did bother me.... will this bother most people???? I can't say... people outside this forum probably wouldn't notice it much... and even if they did, how many would think that the judder was actually something wrong with the panel??? I don't know.... the only thing I know about the judder is that - It bothers me. :P

So .... I'm waiting to see if the other NEC 42" the AV shop puts up has the same judder.... somehow I think it will .....

I'm off to test the Pio Professional range in the next few weeks.....

PIO professional 43MXE1 review

So …. I went today to the shop in Sydney which had the pioneer professional PDP 43MXE1 - The new model the PDP MXE11(which has DVI with HDCP - the MXE1 doesn't) has been released but I could not find a store which had one on display. I have high hopes for this panel as it has good reviews overseas, fits well with external scalers and has a 5 year warranty - plus is a professional display - so a bit more 'tough' than a domestic panel. This could be my panel …. Pretty excited about it really.

I drove about 1 hour and 20 minutes to get to the store….. the place had a lot of mid to high end gear - lots and lots of stuff …. Not too much space to display it properly though …. The staff was very friendly and quickly came to assist me.

The staff member told me the pio panel had been calibrated and was by far the best plasma panel he had ever seen - in fact, he told me, it is the same panel Runco uses in its $30,000k plasma … the only difference is that Runco uses its own electronics…. Pretty impressive.

I had taken my own copy of the Fifth Element… so I could compare the opening scene to the NEC 42" …. Specially in regards to judder, noise, etc….. the DVD used was a Denon 1720 via component. As you can expect from a calibrated panel the image looked good with very natural looking colours, if a little less saturated then I'm used to, but it looked good. No ghosting on movement and as little noise on it as the NEC, however with a little more noise then I noticed on the Fujitsu 50"…. The image was a bit sharper then the Fuji also.

What I was really not impressed with was the black levels. Most of the black scenes look dark grey (remember this is the outgoing pio professional model), so the images tended to have a flat appearance… definitely lacking that 3D look I got from the NEC 42" …. And this was from a reasonably dark viewing area, since the Pio was set up next to the projectors & the projection screen, so it was pretty dark by normal AV store standards…. Next I put in the 'Master and Commander' movie to check it out….. again, you could see how calibration helps the gray levels and gradation of colour, very well rendered - however no calibration could help the actual lack of black depth on the panel… so the movie looked extremely flat with little colour distinction in the majority of the scenes (chapter 4) ….. it was a let down really…. I was so looking forward to auditioning/owning this panel!!!! Ok, lets move to HDTV see if I can see any judder or if this panel is good in this respect…… the AV store staff could not get the HD Set top box signal through….. he tried for about 2 minutes and then said that it was not possible… that was it - he didn't try to pull any cables, swap cables, etc…. ok, so I didn't want to push since the panel wasn't impressing me much at this stage anyway - so unfortunately I didn't get to try the Pio pro with HDTV. After about 40 mins in the store I decided not to overstay my welcome and leave.

IMHO, the nail in the coffin for me was really the price…. The RRP on the pioneer website is $4,999 …. The price of this panel in the store was $7,495 … plus $500 for a decent standit did came with free calibration though…. Still $7,995 for a 42" is pretty steep these days. There is no way I'm going to move from my Sony 32" CRT for something that I think is less than fantastic….. otherwise what's the point????

To complete this fantastic experience, when I went back to my car, it had been keyed…. From the front end to the back on the passengers side…. .ARGHHHHHHH!!! its not a brand new car, but its less then 2 years old…. I wasn't that happy having driven for nearly one and a half hours to be disappointed by the pio pane and some bastard keying my car ..... really, really Pissed me off…. It really shows in black too … WTF would someone key a car for????? SOB :blink: ….

Back to check the NEC 42" again one last time

Anyway, I thought I would drive back to the original place I tested the NEC 42" for a final comparison ….. got there, ran the Fifth Element and Master & Commanders DVDs again …. NEC blacks looked great, fantastic saturation of colour, great definition, 3D looks in some scenes….. did I notice some judder on DVD? Yap, but not much more than the pioneer or the Fuji 50" (we plugged in the same scenes again on the Fuji 50" also for comparison)….. the Fuji looked smooth and with less noise, but the image looked a bit flat in comparison to the NEC and less 3D. I moved to check HDTV again …. Didn't notice any judder.. again, I wasn't watching news tickers this time... but I'm sure the judder is still there ……. The NEC would probably have more judder then the Fuji or the pio professional…. In 'real TV viewing' I'm not sure how much that would bother most people….

Summary

Pio professional 43" PDP 43MXE1 - flexible set up options, great warranty, natural colours and great gray scale calibration (again, showing how a professional calibration does really help) - BUT black levels was really lacking!! The images looked flat, really missing that 3D look I got from the NEC. Also, a very expensive panel at the shop - $8k with stand (RRP $4,999 at the pioneer website +- $500 for the stand)….. it wasn't compelling enough for me to consider it anymore. Caveat - this is the outgoing model, I would expect the new model to be much improved - however it would be similar pricing to this I guess… at least at this shop...... would pay to look around.

NEC 42" XR4 - new generation panel, great blacks, almost 3D look from good quality images, good colour saturation, ISF calibration options (similar to a professional panel). The bad - Judder on HDTV with scrolling news ticker… really tiring for the eyes. However, very reasonable pricing…. Street deals around the $4,400 including the stand.

Final Word -

I had really high hopes for the pio professional - but the black levels were really disappointing and the panel was extremely expensive for today's standards…. Definitely not value for money IMHO…. Worth checking the new model if its priced around the $5k-$6k mark. The NEC has great PQ, calibration options, fantastic black level … but it has judder on news tickers and slow panning motions….. guess what… in hindsight… I can live with a bit of judder if it saves me $4k and gives me a very good PQ…..

Disclaimer - this quick review is IMHO

Before anybody takes this as gospel …. Check it out for yourself and make up your own mindIMHO the NEC is one of the better panels for me…. I'm aware of most of it downfalls I think… the upside is still very good….

I also posted this at the NEC 42" XR4 Review under product reviews

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Quick Review NEC 42 XR4 vs Pio Professional 43"
Cross posting??

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Cross posting??

the discussion on this thread moved slowly from pana vs nec to nec vs pio professional ... hence I posted it here and and its rightful place under the NEC review.

it does flow with the thread if you read the previous posts I think.

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Exactly, well put.

The Fujitsu's as I have always said myself (and so have countless others) are a superior display.

I think that the NEC's are a good panel however, but not in the league to any Fujitsu and not just because of the judder issue which I myself have also noticed.

Pass me one of those cigars Lasty and pour me some of that Cognac too :blink:

Ok, humour me. What are the other reasons NEC's aren't as good as Fuji's?

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Ok, humour me. What are the other reasons NEC's aren't as good as Fuji's?

Put Pioneer, Panasonic and Hitachi (the Japanese ones) next to the NEC as well and let him explain why Fuji is so 'superior' to these panals.

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Ok, humour me. What are the other reasons NEC's aren't as good as Fuji's?

Because he spent money on it.

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I know I'm resurrecting an old thread.

Has anyone with the NEC PX-50XM5 or R4 been able to get decent live action (eg. footy) performance out of their panel on DVI?

It's still got that judder for me at 1365x768@60Hz when watching 50 Hz content (ie all Australian content).

Cheers,

Richard.

PS - I'm using a Linux-based PVR. My modeline for Linux is here:

http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/index.php/Model...50.22_HD_Plasma

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