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Chris McMahon

37" 1920x1080 LCD + 80GB HDD recorder + stand for $2600

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Well I've got my 7900gt installed now (volt modded and overclocked already...) and its feeding the display a perfect 1920x1080p 72hz :P

Very happy - and obviously very happy with th performance increase to!

Beautiful!

This reminds me of a discussion we were having back in February re pushing the limits of single-link DVI.

In Driving an LCD at 1920x1080P from HTPC mybrains joked:

[ ... deletia ... ]

I can see the new trend starting now.... "He Jo, come in and see my new overclocked TV!" :blink:

It would be fascinating to see if the Pyrod, which you have got to accept an exactly-DVI-max-165MHz signal, cuts out at even the slightest exceedence of this; say:

Horizontal Pixels: F Porch: 36, B Porch 68, Sync +, FEA 1920, SyncW 32, (SR 80.375), BEA 1920

Vertical Pixels: F Porch 3, B Porch 29, Sync +, FEA 1920, SyncW 5, Refresh 71.956, BEA 1080.

Interlace Mode "off", Pixel Clock 165.25.

My feeing is that the 165.25MHz signal won't work -- simply because using standard reduced blanking (160 pixels) 1080p71=>164.75MHz & 1080p72=>167.25MHz and you earlier said you couldn't get the Pyrod to go higher than ~71Hz.

Adrian

PS Here are some more "pushing the boundaries" timings if you are feeling game:

(I am using the VESA Coordinated Video Timing Generator to derive these timings.)

1080p73.7 (using absolute minimum blanking intervals and not exceeding 165MHz):

Horizontal Pixels: F Porch: 32, B Porch 64, Sync +, FEA , SyncW 32, (SR 80.566), BEA 1920

Vertical Pixels: F Porch 3, B Porch 6, Sync +, FEA 1920, SyncW 5, Refresh 73.644, BEA 1080

Interlace Mode "off", Pixel Clock 165

1080p74 (using absolute minimum blanking intervals BUT exceeding 165MHz):

Horizontal Pixels: F Porch: 32, B Porch 64, Sync +, FEA , SyncW 32, (SR 80.933), BEA 1920

Vertical Pixels: F Porch 3, B Porch 6, Sync +, FEA 1920, SyncW 5, Refresh 73.979, BEA 1080

Interlace Mode "off", Pixel Clock 165.75

1080p75 (using absolute minimum blanking intervals BUT exceeding 165MHz):

Horizontal Pixels: F Porch: 32, B Porch 64, Sync +, FEA , SyncW 32, (SR 82.031), BEA 1920

Vertical Pixels: F Porch 3, B Porch 6, Sync +, FEA 1920, SyncW 5, Refresh 74.983, BEA 1080

Interlace Mode "off", Pixel Clock 168

1080p74 (not exceeding 165MHz BUT going below defined absolute minimum blanking intervals):

Horizontal Pixels: F Porch: 28, B Porch 60, Sync +, FEA , SyncW 32, (SR 80.882), BEA 1920

Vertical Pixels: F Porch 3, B Porch 6, Sync +, FEA 1920, SyncW 5, Refresh 73.933, BEA 1080

Interlace Mode "off", Pixel Clock 165

1080p75 (breaking a bit of everything):

Horizontal Pixels: F Porch: 24, B Porch 56, Sync +, FEA , SyncW 32, (SR 81.816), BEA 1920

Vertical Pixels: F Porch 3, B Porch 3, Sync +, FEA 1920, SyncW 5, Refresh 74.992, BEA 1080

Interlace Mode "off", Pixel Clock 166.25

1056p75 (using absolute minimum blanking intervals and not exceeding 165MHz BUT sacrificing 24 lines):

Horizontal Pixels: F Porch: 32, B Porch 64, Sync +, FEA , SyncW 32, (SR 80.566), BEA 1920

Vertical Pixels: F Porch 3, B Porch 6, Sync +, FEA 1920, SyncW 10, Refresh 74.945, BEA 1056

Interlace Mode "off", Pixel Clock 165

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Beautiful!

1056p75 (using absolute minimum blanking intervals and not exceeding 165MHz BUT sacrificing 24 lines):

Horizontal Pixels: F Porch: 32, B Porch 64, Sync +, FEA , SyncW 32, (SR 80.566), BEA 1920

Vertical Pixels: F Porch 3, B Porch 6, Sync +, FEA 1920, SyncW 10, Refresh 74.945, BEA 1056

Interlace Mode "off", Pixel Clock 165

Adrian, without trying to decifer your maths, could you tell me the process you go though to get your timings, please. I'm interested but never actually looked into it.. Makes Structural engineering seem boring, (from memory)

PM if it's better.

cheers,

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No, it's DVI

So if I get an HDMI ->DVI cable for connection to the TV, would this cause hassles with an HDMI equipped AV amp (eg. Yamaha RX-V2600) if I set the amp to upscale other inputs (such as composite)? I've heard that the amp can't get a 'lock' (for lack of a better word) on a TV when doing HDMI->DVI.

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Not sure if you would have trouble or not, many HDMI equipped devices have trouble talking to each other as it is, handshaking through a switching component is often flawed to begin with, add any difficulties introduced by HDCP and it starts getting complicated. The HDMI protocol is nowhere near as straightforward as it is meant to be, many owners of HDMI equipped gear are finding this out, unfortunately it's something that is not found out until some trial and error takes place.

Most manufacturers are quite willing to blame the other manufacturers for not sticking to the protocol when two devices with HDMI won't work together, who does it right and who doesn't? Who even knows?

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Adrian, without trying to decifer your maths, could you tell me the process you go though to get your timings, please. I'm interested but never actually looked into it.. Makes Structural engineering seem boring, (from memory)

PM if it's better.

cheers,

Hi Saturated!

Instructions as requested:-

1:- Download the VESA Coordinated Video Timing Generator from http://www.vesa.org/Public/CVT/CVTd6r1.xls

2:- Set cells K18:K23 as follows: 1920, 1080, n, n, 72, y

3:- Unprotect the spreadsheet using the password "VESACVT"

4:- Go to cell K130 and change the VESA recommended minimum horizontal reduced blanking interval of 160 pixels to the figure of 128 pixels mentioned in Table 3-2 of the DVI Specification. [NB see my end comments!]

5:- Change cell K133 to ~480 (this forces a little bit of extra vertical blanking, pushing the refresh rate from 71.909Hz to 71.999Hz)

You will now have the parameters suggested to, and successfully used by, Campster123 for 1080p72.

<Aside>

To save me doing lots of typing, I added the following coding to three spare cells in the spreadsheet:

="Horizontal Pixels: F Porch: "&J62&", B Porch "&J64&", Sync +, FEA "&F38&", SyncW "&J63&", (SR "&ROUND(F41,3)&"), BEA "&K18

="Horizontal Pixels: F Porch: "&J62&", B Porch "&J64&", Sync +, FEA "&F38&", SyncW "&J63&", (SR "&ROUND(F41,3)&"), BEA "&K18

="Interlace Mode "&CHAR(34)&"off"&CHAR(34)&", Pixel Clock "&F43

</Aside>

6:- The next step is to set cell K133 to (say) 1, and let the spreadsheet use the default minimum vertical blanking parameters. This enables you to set cell K22 to 73.7Hz and get possible parameters for 1080p73.644 @ a 165.00MHz pixel clock. [NB whether these actually work will depend on the video card, the monitor electronics, the wrath of god ... :-)]

7:- To start moving into grey territory, you can start modifying the default minimum vertical blanking parameters -- cells K134 and K112. [NB nominally, K135 should be modified rather than K112, but there seems to be a coding error in the spreadsheet] Setting these both to "2" enables you to get possible parameters for 1080p73.982 @ a 165.00MHz pixel clock.

8:- To start moving into really grey territory, you can try pushing the horizontal blanking below 128 pixel clocks [NB see my comments below!] and/or allowing the total pixel clock to creep above 165.00MHz. Please let the forums know if you have success!!!

For your information, I looked at the DVI spec again to see if there was any information on minimum vertical blanking parameters. And I discovered that I seem to have been misinterpreting the figure of 128 pixels mentioned in Table 3-2 of the DVI Specification. I had been taking it as the minimum allowed for the horizontal blanking, but it is actually the minimum allowed for the jointly encoded Hsync and Vsync signals, and it only has to occur 20 times per second. The implication of this is that in the VESA Coordinated Video Timing Generator the reduced blanking times can all be set below the values I've previously outlined.

So, for example, setting K130 to 96, K134 as 3 and K112 (K135) as 4 will enable you to set cell K22 to 75Hz and get possible parameters for 1080p74.950 @ a 165.00MHz pixel clock. Or setting K130 to 88, K134 as 3 and K112 (K135) as 6 will enable you to set cell K22 to 75Hz and get possible parameters for 1080p74.997 @ a 164.75MHz pixel clock.

I don't have the hardware to test this theory, so if you do and/or Campster123 is willing to play around a bit more, Forum Legend status awaits if 1080p75 over single-link DVI is achieved!

Adrian

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[ ... deletia ... ]

For your information, I looked at the DVI spec again to see if there was any information on minimum vertical blanking parameters. And I discovered that I seem to have been misinterpreting the figure of 128 pixels mentioned in Table 3-2 of the DVI Specification. I had been taking it as the minimum allowed for the horizontal blanking, but it is actually the minimum allowed for the jointly encoded Hsync and Vsync signals, and it only has to occur 20 times per second. The implication of this is that in the VESA Coordinated Video Timing Generator the reduced blanking times can all be set below the values I've previously outlined.

So, for example, setting K130 to 96, K134 as 3 and K112 (K135) as 4 will enable you to set cell K22 to 75Hz and get possible parameters for 1080p74.950 @ a 165.00MHz pixel clock. Or setting K130 to 88, K134 as 3 and K112 (K135) as 6 will enable you to set cell K22 to 75Hz and get possible parameters for 1080p74.997 @ a 164.75MHz pixel clock.

I don't have the hardware to test this theory, so if you do and/or Campster123 is willing to play around a bit more, Forum Legend status awaits if 1080p75 over single-link DVI is achieved!

Adrian

Oh Duh! I left out one other obvious set of parameters to try:

Horizontal Pixels: F Porch: 8, B Porch 40, Sync +, FEA , SyncW 32, (SR 82.5), BEA 1920

Vertical Pixels: F Porch 3, B Porch 12, Sync +, FEA 1920, SyncW 5, Refresh 75, BEA 1080

Interlace Mode "off", Pixel Clock 165

If it works it will give 1080p75 exactly.

Anyone been trying these? Campster? Saturated?

Adrian

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thanks very much for that, Adrian....

Well it looks like the pipe is loaded at 164.59 mhz. I could go a fraction higher but I started getting a loss of sync on a frame or 2 every 20 seconds or so.

I'll look when I get a bit of time... I won't reach 1080P @75, but I'll kill this thing trying...

cheers,

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Okay I I've now got 1080P @ 72 via HDMI running nice and smooth.

Horizontal: fp 38, bp 76, sync +, FEA 1920, SyncW 22, scan 79.27, bea 1919.

Vertical: fp 2, bp 14, sync +, FEA 1080, SyncW 5, scan 72.00, bea 1080.

Pixel Clock = 162.98.

This is using advanced timings in Nvidia.

cheers,

(EDIT: this post and the last are for the Acer, not the Pyrod...)

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Hey - I've hit the same limits as saturated with the Pyrod - can push her past 72hz stabily. Seems those ever so insane timings just dont quite fit with it :blink:

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What is the pixel pitch like? Is text (web browsing) massive on this screen? Could it be used as an everyday monitor if you sit back far enough? Is there any noticeable ghosting in games? How about mouse input lag?

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What is the pixel pitch like? Is text (web browsing) massive on this screen? Could it be used as an everyday monitor if you sit back far enough? Is there any noticeable ghosting in games? How about mouse input lag?

I suppose it depends on how far back you can sit. In the Acer thread I think someone said they found a 37" screen too big to use as a monitor because they couldn't track around the screen by just moving their eyes, they had to move their head which became tiring.

Adrian

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I am interested in one of these panels, but Strathfield in Perth have stopped selling them. Info, such as fully detailed specs is hard to come by. At the moment, there is no one in Perth selling the pyrod 37", so at the moment I can't go to a store and check one out. If someone could post some fully detailed specs (including B to W and G to G response times) and some pictures (in particular with model info from the back of the monitor) it would be appreciated.

In terms of the panel itself, the Pyrod uses an AUO panel, but the specs for the 37" 1920x1080 panel at http://www.auo.com/auoDEV/products.php?sec...d=60&items_id=8

differ slightly from the specs at ftp://ftp.jokiin.com/LCD/Pyrod37.jpg

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The Strathfields in Brisbane still have them. It's late night shopping tonight so I am going to try and bring my PC down and test it out. I will be using a DVI connection and a 6800gt. I will be paying particulare attention to lag and ghosting and black levels. Any requests?

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The Strathfields in Brisbane still have them. It's late night shopping tonight so I am going to try and bring my PC down and test it out. I will be using a DVI connection and a 6800gt. I will be paying particulare attention to lag and ghosting and black levels. Any requests?

Could you please get the EDID data from the Pyrod and post it here? It would be interesting to see what similarities/differences there are with the Acer setup. If you don't know of the software for this, you can get Monitor Asset Manager 1.26 from Entech and to do this via either the VGA or DVI connection.

Also, Campster123 got 1920x1080p72 using the following Advanced Timing parameters on an Nvidia 7900GT and on an ATI X800XL:

Horizontal Pixels: F Porch: 32, B Porch 64, Sync +, FEA 1920, SyncW 32, (SR 80.57), BEA 1920

Vertical Pixels: F Porch 3, B Porch 31, Sync +, FEA 1920, SyncW 5, Refresh 71.999, BEA 1080.

Interlace Mode "off", Pixel Clock 165.00

It would be interesting to see if a 6800GT can do the same.

Ta!

Adrian

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The Strathfields in Brisbane still have them. It's late night shopping tonight so I am going to try and bring my PC down and test it out. I will be using a DVI connection and a 6800gt. I will be paying particulare attention to lag and ghosting and black levels. Any requests?

MrWolf has locked the Pyrod thread on the BB forums on the basis that a bulk buy is not possible. I'm still interested in your analysis if you wish to post it here.

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MrWolf has locked the Pyrod thread on the BB forums on the basis that a bulk buy is not possible. I'm still interested in your analysis if you wish to post it here.

the thread ended with some interesting points, but does anybody have an idea of when and for how much this would be?

also guys, help a nub get a clue - when you talk 1080p, are you talking specifically about driving it via DVI from a HTPC or compatibility with the whole range of input types and devices that continue to baffle me? I'm interested in getting a cheap 1920x1080 tv so I can fulfill my lifelong dream of being able to code from bed.

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[ ... deletia ... ]

In terms of the panel itself, the Pyrod uses an AUO panel, but the specs for the 37" 1920x1080 panel at http://www.auo.com/auoDEV/products.php?sec...d=60&items_id=8

differ slightly from the specs at ftp://ftp.jokiin.com/LCD/Pyrod37.jpg

The Pyrod seems to use the V.0 version of the T370HW01 (see several 2004-ish references:- http://www.ineltek.at/produkte/auo_tft.pdf http://www.displaysolutions.co.uk/Datashee...01/T370HW01.pdf http://cn.fpdisplay.com/technology/uploadf...4123165423.pdf).

Presumably the dertails on the AUO website are for a V.1 ...

Adrian

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The Pyrod seems to use the V.0 version of the T370HW01 (see several 2004-ish references:- http://www.ineltek.at/produkte/auo_tft.pdf http://www.displaysolutions.co.uk/Datashee...01/T370HW01.pdf http://cn.fpdisplay.com/technology/uploadf...4123165423.pdf).

Presumably the dertails on the AUO website are for a V.1 ...

Adrian

APPARENTLY within the next month or so it will be reasonably common to be able to score these at ~$2000. So keep an eye out guys. I can confirm I am still MASSIVELY happy with this panel, perfect 1080p, perfect even for everyday desktop use, reasonable blacks (not great but good) andgreat response time. I can't go back to playing Counterstrike Source at 19inches anymore...

Oh and Ajax9000 I'll post the EDID hopefully tonite or tommorow (sorry I took so long to get back to you about that!).

Thanks,

Adam

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[ ... deletia ... ]

Oh and Ajax9000 I'll post the EDID hopefully tonite or tommorow (sorry I took so long to get back to you about that!).

Thanks,

Adam

Thanks Adam!

Adrian

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According to info in a new Pyrod thread, Kmart have the Pyrod 37 inch 1920x1080 LCD for $1899 in their latest catalogue, so I thought I would revive this (the original Pyrod) thread as it contains lots of useful info on this display.

A few weeks ago I received advice that the above display would be for sale in Kmart from June 8 and would be in their June 8 catalogue. I did not get a price, but if $1899 is correct, I will be stampeeding to Kmart to check it out.

On the web Kmart's latest catalogue is still June 1 to June 7.

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Does anyone have an instruction manual and the packed box dimensions for this unit?

razza,

how did your test of the unit at Strathfields in Brisbane back in May go?

It looks like only Kmart will be selling the Pyrod in Perth and after speaking to them at one store it seems that hooking a PC up to test it is not an option.

Kmart were also non-commital to offering a money back garantee if I purchased a unit and after testing at home I was not satisfied with it. I was advised that once I had purchased a unit I would only be covered by the conditions of the warranty (of which the Kmart employee knew no details).

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