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Here's a site with some thoughts on the topic here but it's a little old.

http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/specsf...vs_Plasma3.html

It makes the following disturbing prediction for plasma:

"What’s Next?

Extinction. You heard it here first. Unless plasma displays can miraculously adapt and compete in terms of longevity, brightness, (true) contrast ratio, power consumption and burn-in, the technology is on its way out. As LCD displays become cheaper, faster and more competitive, plasma will be seen for the stop-gap that it truly is.

There's some comparisons between technologies too.

To sum up...

Has anyone seen any predictions on how far LCD can improve and how soon?

Is there any new technology on the horizon within a year or so that's worth waiting for?

Do you think the dramatic fall in prices we see now really means why wait? What's on offer now ain't bad, just do it!!

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Here's a site with some thoughts on the topic here but it's a little old.

http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/specsf...vs_Plasma3.html

It makes the following disturbing prediction for plasma:

"What’s Next?

Extinction. You heard it here first. Unless plasma displays can miraculously adapt and compete in terms of longevity, brightness, (true) contrast ratio, power consumption and burn-in, the technology is on its way out. As LCD displays become cheaper, faster and more competitive, plasma will be seen for the stop-gap that it truly is.

There's some comparisons between technologies too.

To sum up...

Has anyone seen any predictions on how far LCD can improve and how soon?

Is there any new technology on the horizon within a year or so that's worth waiting for?

Do you think the dramatic fall in prices we see now really means why wait? What's on offer now ain't bad, just do it!!

Well you could die waiting for the next "great" thing. Or at least get closer to dying.

Apparently the current next "great" thing is SED. May be in Australia this year, certainly probably not in volume or at mainstream prices.

As for Plasma extinction (not the first time I've heard it mentioned) it's not like they all suddenly stop working, just the same as all those obsolescent CRT's (colour and black and white).

Like all technology you're lucky if it's not obsolete before you've got it out of the box when you get it home. If you're in the market for a new TV go audition, do some research, and buy one.

Then if you're one of those people who suffers from post-purchase regret/anxiety disconnect your Internet (or at least stay away from sites like this) and stay home watching your new screen. Who knows the mental anguish of owning "obsolete" or "inferior" technology may not strike so hard or at least be delayed. :blink:

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Here's a site with some thoughts on the topic here but it's a little old.

http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/specsf...vs_Plasma3.html

It makes the following disturbing prediction for plasma:

"What’s Next?

Extinction. You heard it here first. Unless plasma displays can miraculously adapt and compete in terms of longevity, brightness, (true) contrast ratio, power consumption and burn-in, the technology is on its way out. As LCD displays become cheaper, faster and more competitive, plasma will be seen for the stop-gap that it truly is.

There's some comparisons between technologies too.

To sum up...

Has anyone seen any predictions on how far LCD can improve and how soon?

Is there any new technology on the horizon within a year or so that's worth waiting for?

Do you think the dramatic fall in prices we see now really means why wait? What's on offer now ain't bad, just do it!!

What utter crap, true no idea fricking useless know nothing writing as usual... Let me retort their useless reasonings:

Longevity = Plasma panels are rated for 60,000 hours... Thats 20 years at 8 hours a day. How long do you wan t a damn TV, thats a damn site longer than CRT's typically last. LCD suffers a shorter lifespan currently due to backlights.

Brightness = Far far brighter than any current LCD and equal/ brighter than CRT. How bright is it supposed to be, enough to burn your iris' out.. :blink:

Contrast ratio = FAR higher than even the best RPTV's, LCD's and some CRT's. Has this doom sayer actually even done any research.. honestly what a tool.

Power comsumption = equal and sometimes less than LCD at the same size. Also as LCD tries to get better its power usage is going up with it. How a look here for comparisons between a 40" Sony LCD and a 50" pana PDP. with the extra 10% in size and almost equal power consumption, again this idiot writer knows nothing other than old wives tales!

Burn-In = As shown here in a test by IDC, after an image was left static on 7 different plasma's for 48 hours, after watching a moving image for a further 24 hours there was no burn in on the panels... SO again, an old wives tale.

Now, add into the fact that Fuji have announced a 1080p capable plasma for end 2006/2007 plasma isnt going anywhere soon.

Its know nothing idiot writers like that one that publish this complete crap and lies that gives Plasma the myths people have about it.

edited - Has anyone even looked at that date of that drivel... Was written 2/9/2004. No wonder he thinks all that crap. Since it was written plasma has fulfilled everything he had asked for and more.

So now Plasma didnt die, and is currently the best all round display for TV/DVD viewing i guess his prediction was as usefull as a fart in a jacuzzi.

Edited by mxlaser
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Its true that plasma is on its way out though, thats about all the article has right.... LCD is where the manufacturers are heading, for a while till they decide on the next display type.

About the wait or buy now thing, you could try what Im going to do, buy a cheap display now to tide you over for 1-2 years then pounce on something really nice. I have an Acer 32" for my HTPC, which I am about to get a refund for, having had it for 6 months. Im going to probably get an AWA 32" lcd next, they are about $1550 or so, so Im saving $400 on the difference from the Acer. Then when I see something that really takes my fancy, say an OLED or whatever, Im OK with spending $3-4k. Instead of spending $3-4k now and $3-4k in 2 years making $7k or so of TV....

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Its true that plasma is on its way out though, thats about all the article has right.... LCD is where the manufacturers are heading, for a while till they decide on the next display type.

About the wait or buy now thing, you could try what Im going to do, buy a cheap display now to tide you over for 1-2 years then pounce on something really nice. I have an Acer 32" for my HTPC, which I am about to get a refund for, having had it for 6 months. Im going to probably get an AWA 32" lcd next, they are about $1550 or so, so Im saving $400 on the difference from the Acer. Then when I see something that really takes my fancy, say an OLED or whatever, Im OK with spending $3-4k. Instead of spending $3-4k now and $3-4k in 2 years making $7k or so of TV....

Agreed with Chargin, I also have the Acer 32 LCD but have just decided to keep it for all the above reasons, its a compomise for now - Ideally a 37 1080 was my goal , but the 32 can do the job for now at <$2000 and the DVD playback is superb on this panel.

So In 3 years time ? a 50" SED/OLED at $3000 maybe.

edit: Ohh the blacks on the Acer are as good as any <$2000 plasma i've seen. no ifs or buts. You wanna see crappy grey blacks on a plasma, go see a soniq.

Edited by idioteque
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What utter crap, true no idea fricking useless know nothing writing as usual... Let me retort their useless reasonings:

Longevity = Plasma panels are rated for 60,000 hours... Thats 20 years at 8 hours a day. How long do you wan t a damn TV, thats a damn site longer than CRT's typically last. LCD suffers a shorter lifespan currently due to backlights.

Brightness = Far far brighter than any current LCD and equal/ brighter than CRT. How bright is it supposed to be, enough to burn your iris' out.. :blink:

Contrast ratio = FAR higher than even the best RPTV's, LCD's and some CRT's. Has this doom sayer actually even done any research.. honestly what a tool.

Power comsumption = equal and sometimes less than LCD at the same size. Also as LCD tries to get better its power usage is going up with it. How a look here for comparisons between a 40" Sony LCD and a 50" pana PDP. with the extra 10% in size and almost equal power consumption, again this idiot writer knows nothing other than old wives tales!

Burn-In = As shown here in a test by IDC, after an image was left static on 7 different plasma's for 48 hours, after watching a moving image for a further 24 hours there was no burn in on the panels... SO again, an old wives tale.

Now, add into the fact that Fuji have announced a 1080p capable plasma for end 2006/2007 plasma isnt going anywhere soon.

Its know nothing idiot writers like that one that publish this complete crap and lies that gives Plasma the myths people have about it.

edited - Has anyone even looked at that date of that drivel... Was written 2/9/2004. No wonder he thinks all that crap. Since it was written plasma has fulfilled everything he had asked for and more.

So now Plasma didnt die, and is currently the best all round display for TV/DVD viewing i guess his prediction was as usefull as a fart in a jacuzzi.

I'd back most of whats said here. plasma is a pretty good bet at present for over 36" and if looking for soemthign with a small footprint. ofcourse a pj is another alternative if thats somethign suitable.

lcd just isn't there yet if pq is whqat your chasing.

I bought my plasma a year and a half ago now, yes its dropped in price but I'm sure I and rest of the family have and equivalent amount of enjoyment out of it in that time. And technology wise there have been improvements but pretty incremental. I'm pretty confident my current plasma will take me through another 3.5-4 years till something better has arrived and established itself.

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edit: Ohh the blacks on the Acer are as good as any <$2000 plasma i've seen. no ifs or buts. You wanna see crappy grey blacks on a plasma, go see a soniq.

Your colour blind. Or have no idea what so ever about technologies, and panels and how to set them up.

That Acer LCD can not, at all, in any way physically produce anything close to the blacks produced by the Soniq plasma, as well as others. So you saw a badly set up one... big deal. I see PDP's, LCD's act setup badly in 50+ stores a month.

You Acer LCD is ok. It has aweful brightness compared to plasma, aweful blacks as well, nearly all but a few of the better LCD's do, and even they can not technically produce the image as good... YET.

Companies (not any of the majot plasma ones though) are focusing on LCD due to "their" lower costs and production, and waste.

Pioneer, Panasonic, Fuji, Hitachi and LG will be making plasma's for long time yet. The others will as they see LCD sales not rising compared to the of plasma.

Plasma sales rose reportedly 46% last year, over the year before. LCD was only 27%. Plasma has a MASSIVE market, especially in the US.

It won't die anywhere near before SED and more comes out, and will be around for a few years after them as they mature as well... Remeber first plasma's promised the world and by standards today were crap. 15 years on, plasma has matured and developed into an excellent product. However technology is constantly moving now, and no one product will probably see the 50 year strecth the CRT had.

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Your colour blind. Or have no idea what so ever about technologies, and panels and how to set them up.

That Acer LCD can not, at all, in any way physically produce anything close to the blacks produced by the Soniq plasma, as well as others. So you saw a badly set up one... big deal. I see PDP's, LCD's act setup badly in 50+ stores a month.

I’m not colour blind, I don’t claim to have superior technological knowledge and have no real interest in subscribing allegiance to a particular panel. I don’t support technology like a football team.

BUT, my unbiased brain does process the signals my eyes send back to it, so allow me to reiterate and elaborate – the SONIQ plasma has GREY blacks. They were GREY at 4 (FOUR) different JB stores in Melbourne, they were GREY while I played around with it, they were GREY while the assistant played around with it and they were GREY while another customer played around with it. These were all at different times, different days, different weather conditions, different planet alignments.

I have been critical of the Acer on certain points, but its black reproduction is excellent for the $ of the panel. Oh and let me add the obligatory “IMO” in a bid to curb your expected arrogant reply.

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I’m not colour blind, I don’t claim to have superior technological knowledge and have no real interest in subscribing allegiance to a particular panel. I don’t support technology like a football team.

BUT, my unbiased brain does process the signals my eyes send back to it, so allow me to reiterate and elaborate – the SONIQ plasma has GREY blacks. They were GREY at 4 (FOUR) different JB stores in Melbourne, they were GREY while I played around with it, they were GREY while the assistant played around with it and they were GREY while another customer played around with it. These were all at different times, different days, different weather conditions, different planet alignments.

I have been critical of the Acer on certain points, but its black reproduction is excellent for the $ of the panel. Oh and let me add the obligatory “IMO” in a bid to curb your expected arrogant reply.

No arrogance, but i can happily point you to a thread here on DBA and another with over 1500 posts on OCAU and over 60 people that bought one that all disagree with you. Also, with the opionin that the blacks are excellent. Also, as it uses Samsings 8th Gen panel (which has great blacks) and also Samsungs HDi scaler used in there latest panels, its hard to imagine how they have all have good reviews, and FAR improved blacks over their last models,

But then again, its what the users sees, and you weren't impressed, so nothing i say will change that. How on earth though, you can possibly think the Acer has better blacks is beyond me, as it is completly, technically and visually impossible... Not that it matters, if your happy thats great.

This thread was started saying Plasma was on its way out over 15 months ago, and its now the biggest seller (with Plasma/LCD) and also the better technology currently.

Im not alligned to either, i'd got plasma as its currently by far the best TV screen available. If LCD was better, i'd have one of them.

Not arrogant replies, just technical and proven differences between LCD and Plasma (feel free to have a look at an unbiased LCD vs Plasma article in my sig)

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if your happy thats great.

The truth is I’m as happy as an $1800 appliance can make me, so im good with that. Besides, like the thread starter, there’s always radio (& sex & food & travel & drink) and anything else a 99% perfect tv can’t fulfill.

I spent 3 months banging my head in here and at stores looking for a perfect tv and you know what, there isn't one. So I bought one that came close, for reasonable $ & coupled it with an upscaling DVD player. Near perfect (for me!).

The problem with stores is they are mostly setup as shite, particularly lcds. I was going back to CRT because I couldnt find a $2000 plasma/lcd I liked. Im glad I didnt get a CRT now.

As for the Soniq, I aint the only one not impressed with its blacks, look at page 1 of your "Teac-best panel in the universe" thread. BTW, I considered the Teac but put it aside after viewing it, my wife would have died at the monstrosity of a housing they build around it (nice PQ though)...see, lifes a compromise.

To the original poster, my advise still stands, if you need a tv now, buy cheap now, buy better later.

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I’m not colour blind, I don’t claim to have superior technological knowledge and have no real interest in subscribing allegiance to a particular panel. I don’t support technology like a football team.

BUT, my unbiased brain does process the signals my eyes send back to it, so allow me to reiterate and elaborate – the SONIQ plasma has GREY blacks. They were GREY at 4 (FOUR) different JB stores in Melbourne, they were GREY while I played around with it, they were GREY while the assistant played around with it and they were GREY while another customer played around with it. These were all at different times, different days, different weather conditions, different planet alignments.

I have been critical of the Acer on certain points, but its black reproduction is excellent for the $ of the panel. Oh and let me add the obligatory “IMO” in a bid to curb your expected arrogant reply.

Have a look at a better brand plasma (Pana, Fuji, Hitachi etc) before you compare them to LCD.

Edited by ejm
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I was like yourself so I decided on a cheap plasma which was Teac and thought would wait another 3yrs to see what is the best to buy. Wanted a big screen which was another reason for plasma. Very happy with the Teac. Couldnt justify the dearer plasma's as all I watch is dvd SD and FTA which is 90% SD. But dont wait or you will be waiting for the rest of your life and have nothing.

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Have a look at a better brand plasma (Pana, Fuji, Hitachi etc) before you compare them to LCD.

Why? I only commented on <$2000 panels and it was in response to this.....

Also LCD has a fair way to go to challenge plasma, in that black reproduction and gradation within blacks is rubbish.

But hey its his opinion, just thought id share mine which is the soniqs blacks are grey...I wouldnt go as far as saying rubbish.

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Why? I only commented on <$2000 panels and it was in response to this.....

All I was saying is that <$2000 plasma's have bad blacks but on a $4000 plasma the blacks improve 100% but that is not the case for LCD.

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I have been looking at a lot of screens over the past few days.....

Good Guys

JB (several)

Hardly Normal

etc..

and to me the LCD has far superior definition..... Granted the Plasma's have a bit better contrast in dark scenes but i feel the LCD has reached a more than acceptable capability......

LCD response times are now better than ever and I could barely detect any blurring when looking at the new Sony Bravia 40"... So the old argument that Plasma's are superior in this regard no longer holds true.

LCD also has the added advantage of being able to supress reflections... the old CRT and Plasma's are highly susceptable to reflections. So if you live in a well lit environment with sunshine then LCD is the only way to go....

just some thoughts ....

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All I was saying is that <$2000 plasma's have bad blacks but on a $4000 plasma the blacks improve 100% but that is not the case for LCD.

Heheh

I say your wrong... some $2000 plasma's have FAR FAR better blacks than HD ones.

Being HD doesnt give it better blacks. All being HD does is give the plasma more pixels. Unless HD content is used, this will actually give a slightly (not generally perceptable) worse image quality when viewing SD material (90% of content currently available in Oz)

It has nothing to do with black levels. The blacks on a Teac are FAR better than the blacks on a HD Samsung for example. HD/SD aside, it has NO relevance at all.

Generally you are correct as HD panels are usually found with the better scalers/processing/colours, but this isn't true with probably half of them though.

Also $4000 LCD's doe improve the blacks massivley (look at Sharp and Sony's oferings) but again, are not to the standard of Plasma. Once they overcome those issues, and jaggedness and ghostng (mostly gone now) LCD would be a good alternative, but plasma truly, at this time is the best format for TV's. By the time that will happen im sure newer techs (although in their infancy) will be available to compare against.

and to me the LCD has far superior definition..... Granted the Plasma's have a bit better contrast in dark scenes but i feel the LCD has reached a more than acceptable capability......

LCD response times are now better than ever and I could barely detect any blurring when looking at the new Sony Bravia 40"... So the old argument that Plasma's are superior in this regard no longer holds true.

LCD also has the added advantage of being able to supress reflections... the old CRT and Plasma's are highly susceptable to reflections. So if you live in a well lit environment with sunshine then LCD is the only way to go....

just some thoughts ....

Higher definition? Well, it will be as high as either the content running on it, or the panel will accept. that rings true for plasma as well.

Plasma doesnt have just "better dark scenes" it has far better colour reproductions, better brightness, is better with faster moving scenes (you could "barely" detect, but still did see it).

LCD's come in two flavours, some with glass screens, some without. Not having the glass, reflective screen is actually worse due to colours not having the percieved "depth" of colour peopl eare used to, but i agree, non reflective screens are good in some situations. Hardly makes LCD a supirior screen though.

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Heheh

I say your wrong... some $2000 plasma's have FAR FAR better blacks than HD ones.

Being HD doesnt give it better blacks. All being HD does is give the plasma more pixels. Unless HD content is used, this will actually give a slightly (not generally perceptable) worse image quality when viewing SD material (90% of content currently available in Oz)

It has nothing to do with black levels. The blacks on a Teac are FAR better than the blacks on a HD Samsung for example. HD/SD aside, it has NO relevance at all.

Generally you are correct as HD panels are usually found with the better scalers/processing/colours, but this isn't true with probably half of them though.

Also $4000 LCD's doe improve the blacks massivley (look at Sharp and Sony's oferings) but again, are not to the standard of Plasma. Once they overcome those issues, and jaggedness and ghostng (mostly gone now) LCD would be a good alternative, but plasma truly, at this time is the best format for TV's. By the time that will happen im sure newer techs (although in their infancy) will be available to compare against.

Higher definition? Well, it will be as high as either the content running on it, or the panel will accept. that rings true for plasma as well.

Plasma doesnt have just "better dark scenes" it has far better colour reproductions, better brightness, is better with faster moving scenes (you could "barely" detect, but still did see it).

LCD's come in two flavours, some with glass screens, some without. Not having the glass, reflective screen is actually worse due to colours not having the percieved "depth" of colour peopl eare used to, but i agree, non reflective screens are good in some situations. Hardly makes LCD a supirior screen though.

Where did I say a HD plasma? I ment SD plasma's which could be up to $4000 like my one was ($3800 to be exact) when it was first realesed (same plasma as yours).

Edited by ejm
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Where did I say a HD plasma? I ment my SD plasma's which can be up to $4000 like my one was ($3800 to be exact) when it was first realesed (same plasma as yours).

Oops... :P they say that assumtions are the mother of all....... :P

My bad :D

I still think some $2k plasma's have excellent blacks, FAR FAR beyond what any sub $2k LCD can even dream of...

:blink: Move along, nothing to see here, just my inability to read and assume stuf... cough cough...

I said move along :P:P

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All I was saying is that <$2000 plasma's have bad blacks but on a $4000 plasma the blacks improve 100% but that is not the case for LCD.

Well a panel that costs twice as much should look better, but is it twice as good as you say ? I hope so, last week I helped a friend setup his 50" Pio (fitting the stand legs and connecting the stb to the Pio's external box thing) as he was lost. While the screen size blew us away even he agreed it wasnt that much better than my Acer- ofcourse it wasnt tweaked at this point, I expect a huge improvement when I go back and see it.

Another friend has had that 36" Sony wega crt monster for 2 years, paid about $4000 back then. It has never looked good in my eyes - but I suspect he runs composite, shall check next time im there.

Point is, I paid $1800 for panel that looks good for the price I paid. And it has better blacks than the Soniq 42 plasma (there I said it again :blink: )

So to the thread starter, unless you got money growing out your ears, my advise is to wait a year or 2, or rather, buy now, but buy cheaper cause what you buy will be bettered next week (hell I already want the Acer 37" and it isnt out yet) . LCD or plasma? just view them, dont buy anything on paper specs alone.

And the reason I went LCD in the end? I prefered LCD's hiDef smoother film grain look - especially when part of the couch is 1m from the set. Also 42" plasmas are too big for the space.

Edited by idioteque
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Well a panel that costs twice as much should look better, but is it twice as good as you say ? I hope so, last week I helped a friend setup his 50" Pio (fitting the stand legs and connecting the stb to the Pio's external box thing) as he was lost. While the screen size blew us away even he agreed it wasnt that much better than my Acer- ofcourse it wasnt tweaked at this point, I expect a huge improvement when I go back and see it.

Another friend has had that 36" Sony wega crt monster for 2 years, paid about $4000 back then. It has never looked good in my eyes - but I suspect he runs composite, shall check next time im there.

Point is, I paid $1800 for panel that looks good for the price I paid. And it has better blacks than the Soniq 42 plasma (there I said it again :blink: )

So to the thread starter, unless you got money growing out your ears, my advise is to wait a year or 2, or rather, buy now, but buy cheaper cause what you buy will be bettered next week (hell I already want the Acer 37" and it isnt out yet) . LCD or plasma? just view them, dont buy anything on paper specs alone.

And the reason I went LCD in the end? I prefered LCD's hiDef smoother film grain look - especially when part of the couch is 1m from the set. Also 42" plasmas are too big for the space.

Dosn't Pioneer offer home set-up for free?

What I ment was a $2000 LCD and a $2000 plasma will both have pretty horible blacks (maybe not as bad on the plasma) but on a $4000 LCD and plasma the plasma will leave the LCD for dead in the Black levels.

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Dosn't Pioneer offer home set-up for free?

Not when you buy the Pio, Amp, & HD box from a Pio employee that upgrades their setup every 6 months

What I ment was a $2000 LCD and a $2000 plasma will both have pretty horible blacks (maybe not as bad on the plasma) but on a $4000 LCD and plasma the plasma will leave the LCD for dead in the Black levels.

Maybe. All im saying is the Acer's blacks are better than than the Soniq plasma blacks. I dont care if the soniq has latest samsung chevy supercharged 100th generation Nos injected panel, its irrelevant as I have seen this panel countless times. I have seen the Acer countless times. I have seen every setup in everystore from Prahran to Dandenong, Ringwood to Mentone. Granted many of the setups are not great, I have critisised this many times over and over, BUT my thoughts and opinions cannot be manipulated by anothers better knowledge, because the eyes dont lie!!! IMO a $2000 Acer has better blacks than a $2000 Soniq. Dats all I stated.

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Awesome product the ACER LCD. Best at that price by far I think. Great Purchase, and it sounds like LCD is for you.

However due to the fact that to create black an LCD has to block out light, there is no way that an LCD can have a better black or more contrast for that matter than a plasma. I'm sorry but that is just the truth.

Haven't seen a sh**box Soniq so can't cmment on that.

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I too think Plasma is on it's last legs. It was never really meant to be a TV display technology. It had great appeal at airports and the like for Flight info display and the like. The fill factor on plasma is appaling, most of what you see is interpixel space. But due to it's sleek appearance and thus sexy marketability plasma took off in the domestic scene.

Next gen LCD will see a dramatic increase in LCD PQ, SED/FED which is the new CRT(instead of one/three electron emitting gun(s) it will have hundreds/thousands. SED costs 2/3 of the cost of a plasma of similar size to produce and will produce a non pixelated(relatively speaking) image that will be far superior to Plasma's image.

New gen LCD may be the PC display of choice, with SED/FED being the prefered TV display. Oled/Pholed has still a bit of work required before it will reach big sizes.

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