Acer AT3705-MGW 37" LCD TV

[Ajax9000]

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Finally, I ran the Monitor Asset Manager as suggested

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Timing characteristics

VESA GTF support............ Not supported

Horizontal scan range........ 30-80kHz

Vertical scan range........... 50-85Hz

Video bandwidth.............. 110MHz

Extension blocks.............n/a

Timing recommendation #1.... 1360x768 at 60Hz

Modeline................ "1360x768" 85.500 1360 1424 1536 1792 768 771 777 795 +hsync +vsync

Timing recommendation #2.... 1920x540 at 60Hz

Modeline................ "1920x540" 74.250 1920 2008 2052 2200 540 542 547 562 +hsync +vsync

Timing recommendation #3.... 1920x1080 at 30Hz

Modeline................ "1920x1080" 74.250 1920 2008 2052 2200 1080 1084 1094 1124 interlace +hsync +vsync

Standard timings supported

1360 x 768 at 60Hz - ACR

1920 x 540 at 60Hz - ACR

1920 x 1080 at 30Hz - ACR

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OK, several things here, in no particular order.

Thanks for doing this for us!

1) The DVI spec mandates that the first timing reccomendation is to have the native resolution. Having it in the third timing recomendation is technically wrong. But given that so many manufacturers can't get it in at all, we can be thankful of small mercies.

2) Timing recomendation #3 appears to be coding the SMPTE 274M standard for digital timings for television:

74.250 = interface sampling frequency (MHz)

1920 = active horizontal samples per line

2008 = start of hsync?

2052 = end of hsync? (NB sync width = 44 -- same start, stop, & width as in 274M clause 8; VESA-type timings tend to be multiples of 8)

2200 = total samples per line

1080 = active lines

1084 = start of vsync?

1094 = end of vsync?

1124 = total lines per frame

interlace = frame is interlaced into two fields

+hsync = hsync polarity

+vsync = vsync polarity

The odd thing is that the SMPTE, DVB, and ATSC standards define the structure of 1080i60 as having 1125 lines. This has 1124. So I think this is actually coding 1080i59.94 (i.e. a frame rate of 29.97Hz).

3) There are NO 1080p modes defined. But Acer isn't marketing it as a 1080p display.

4) An interface sampling frequency of 74.25MHz is well below the DVI maximum bandwith of 165MHz, so there should be plenty of room to play (at your own risk -- the sort of stuff mentioned below is liable to void the warranty ...). The danger with trying to push, say, 1920x1080p72 at the display is that single link DVI can code, carry, and decode it, but the video processor in the display may fall over, or die ...

5) By default ATI and Nvidia GPUs will only send to a display timings the display's EDID recommends (e.g. see Nvidia's FAQ).

6) Forcing a GPU to override the EDID can be attempted using the Forceware custom timings page for Nvidia GPUs, ATI???, or Entech's Powerstrip.

7) Re-writing the display's EDID is a major (warranty-voiding) challenge. The EDID resides on an EEPROM and is accessable via the I2C bus; which is implemented via two of the wires on VGA, DVI, and HDMI. Dedicated reprogrammers can be plugged directly into a VGA/DVI/HDMI port on the display and overwrite the EDID (the display doesn't even have to be on). Such devices commonly cost $1000+++. You can try building your own ...

In theory, software on the PC can talk via a VGA/DVI/HDMI connection to rewrite the EDID. In practice such software is either: a) for licence only to a manufacturer (e.g. Entech's SoftMCCS or SoftOSD); or, rare as hens teeth (but ddccontrol and RivaTuner are possibilities).

Adrian

[Billy Two Hats]

I watched one in a store on sunday connected by component to a hdstb showing the cricket. The colours looked slightly washed out (as if there was a slight haze over the screen). This could not be adjusted through the menu and had the "least bright colours" of any tv in the store, other than that the pq looked great. Not too sure about the blue light.

[justifier]

I watched one in a store on sunday connected by component to a hdstb showing the cricket. The colours looked slightly washed out (as if there was a slight haze over the screen). This could not be adjusted through the menu and had the "least bright colours" of any tv in the store, other than that the pq looked great. Not too sure about the blue light.

Were you 'standing' in front of it? I have this display and have noted that it looks washed out unless you are at eye height (ie sitting and not looking down on the display). In the correct seating position I thought this display had the most vibrant colours and acceptable blacks. It can also look washed out if you are more than about 45 degrees off centre. This is common to most LCD displays.

[Guest mjd2]

"3) There are NO 1080p modes defined. But Acer isn't marketing it as a 1080p display."

it is marketed as "1080p ready" - are you saying that is wrong?

[rwo]

...

7) Re-writing the display's EDID is a major (warranty-voiding) challenge. The EDID resides on an EEPROM and is accessable via the I2C bus; which is implemented via two of the wires on VGA, DVI, and HDMI. Dedicated reprogrammers can be plugged directly into a VGA/DVI/HDMI port on the display and overwrite the EDID (the display doesn't even have to be on). Such devices commonly cost $1000+++. You can try building your own ...

In theory, software on the PC can talk via a VGA/DVI/HDMI connection to rewrite the EDID. In practice such software is either: a) for licence only to a manufacturer (e.g. Entech's SoftMCCS or SoftOSD); or, rare as hens teeth (but ddccontrol and RivaTuner are possibilities).

...

So your saying that, should someone be gaim enough and have a few spare $G's to replace the TV in the event that it stuff's up, that it MAY be possible to rewrite the EDID on the display so it will accept 1920x1080@60Hz (obviously assuming the incorporated hardware can support it)?

So who wants to volunteer?

[crYnOid]

I can see the problem with this TV is that doing a firmware upgrade would not be easy as Philips ones, with those you can simply d/l the firmware to a USB drive and off you go...

According to the media gateway manual if you hook it up to your home network and router all you have to do is go through some menus (not hidden as they are in the manual!) select update firmware and the TV will check with the acer site as to the availability of new firmware. If it is available it will the install it. pretty simple really.

[BeerSkel]

So your saying that, should someone be gaim enough and have a few spare $G's to replace the TV in the event that it stuff's up, that it MAY be possible to rewrite the EDID on the display so it will accept 1920x1080@60Hz (obviously assuming the incorporated hardware can support it)?

So who wants to volunteer?

i think Pumbaa is due to pickup his set today... Pumbaa ??? It's not just the $g's but a chance to become a part of dba forum folklore

[Pumbaa]

i think Pumbaa is due to pickup his set today... Pumbaa ??? It's not just the $g's but a chance to become a part of dba forum folklore

hi guys, you're all dreaming if you think I'll risk damaging my baby! I should be getting a call from David Jones today or latest tomorrow regarding the TV. If all goes to plan I can really test it during the week and post a real good review on Friday (my day off work). I'll keep you all posted! Has no body else in this forum recieved their TV yet? I'm also eagarly awaiting reviews from other people also!

[Therm3l]

The courier is meant to be dropping mine off today....

[Billy Two Hats]

Were you 'standing' in front of it? I have this display and have noted that it looks washed out unless you are at eye height (ie sitting and not looking down on the display). In the correct seating position I thought this display had the most vibrant colours and acceptable blacks. It can also look washed out if you are more than about 45 degrees off centre. This is common to most LCD displays.

Thanks justifier. The set was fixed to the wall on the "second row". That is there was another row of screens beneath it. The first row is at standing eye level. Perhaps plasmas filled the rest of the second row.

Pleased to hear your experience - any problems with the blue light?

[justifier]

Thanks justifier. The set was fixed to the wall on the "second row". That is there was another row of screens beneath it. The first row is at standing eye level. Perhaps plasmas filled the rest of the second row.

Pleased to hear your experience - any problems with the blue light?

If you are referring to the blue light on the power switch I have covered that with grey insulation tape as it was too bright. Now you can hardly notice it and the grey tape (cut to the size of the button) is unnoticeable.

[Billy Two Hats]

hi guys, you're all dreaming if you think I'll risk damaging my baby! I should be getting a call from David Jones today or latest tomorrow regarding the TV. If all goes to plan I can really test it during the week and post a real good review on Friday (my day off work). I'll keep you all posted! Has no body else in this forum recieved their TV yet? I'm also eagarly awaiting reviews from other people also!

What was the deal at David Jones, when I asked they would only do the 5yr int only and 5yr warranty if you paid the ticketed price. (Plus they only had one, which they had not yet unpacked!)

[joker]

According to the media gateway manual if you hook it up to your home network and router all you have to do is go through some menus (not hidden as they are in the manual!) select update firmware and the TV will check with the acer site as to the availability of new firmware. If it is available it will the install it. pretty simple really.

Oh, really?? coolies!! Cheers for that.

Hehe, didn't know that! Oh well, but then again, Acer has to "bother" coming up with a new firmware first...(don't they usually just make and forget?)

[rwo]

According to the media gateway manual if you hook it up to your home network and router all you have to do is go through some menus (not hidden as they are in the manual!) select update firmware and the TV will check with the acer site as to the availability of new firmware. If it is available it will the install it. pretty simple really.

What about the non MGW version? I guess you can't do a firmware update on that.

As for the MGW version i'm guessing that the firmware update will only update the linux based MGW functionality, not the capabilities of the physical display (i.e. what input frequencies it will take).

But yeah, as the post above suggested, i'd be supprised if they ever do release a new firmware.

Edited February 20, 2006 by rwo

[joker]

6) Forcing a GPU to override the EDID can be attempted using the Forceware custom timings page for Nvidia GPUs, ATI???, or Entech's Powerstrip.

7) Re-writing the display's EDID is a major (warranty-voiding) challenge.

Adrian

Thanks Adrain,

Now, What's the difference between "forcing GPU to override EDID" and "re-writing EDID"? is the former trying to emulate it temperarily and the latter is just bascially rewriting the EEPROM permanently?

So, if the former is workable, you don't really need to do the latter, right?

[crYnOid]

What about the non MGW version? I guess you can't do a firmware update on that.

As for the MGW version i'm guessing that the firmware update will only update the linux based MGW functionality, not the capabilities of the physical display (i.e. what input frequencies it will take).

But yeah, as the post above suggested, i'd be supprised if they ever do release a new firmware.

The firmware update is only made available through the MGW function.

from the manual:

Firmware updates are made available by Acer to correct software issues and/or add new features to the MGW in your LCD TV. To access the updates, your TV will need to be connected to the Internet via a home network.

[joker]

The firmware update is only made available through the MGW function.

from the manual:

Firmware updates are made available by Acer to correct software issues and/or add new features to the MGW in your LCD TV. To access the updates, your TV will need to be connected to the Internet via a home network.

but.....hmmm......that sounds like the "firmware" is only related to MGW linux software in the TV, but NOT the actually TV firmware as RWO suggested...

But then again, having the extra ability to actually read a file off built-in I/O device making a firmware upgrade possible

[rwo]

I still think the best way forward is for someone to work out if there is a service menu and how to access the thing!

Anyone got a contact at Acer?

[Ajax9000]

"3) There are NO 1080p modes defined. But Acer isn't marketing it as a 1080p display."

it is marketed as "1080p ready" - are you saying that is wrong?

I based my 'marketing' comment on the basis that the press release and brochure don't mention 1080p ready.

For the average user, I don't see how it could be claimed to be 1080p ready. Consider the inputs:

Component video -- should be able to accept 1080p23.98/24/29.97/30 (not sure about 50p or higher)

VGA -- out of the box, for the average user, this will be hamstrung by the timing recommendation of the EDID

DVI -- out of the box, for the average user, this will be hamstrung by the timing recommendation of the EDID

HDMI -- out of the box, for the average user, this will be hamstrung by the timing recommendation of the EDID (unless the EIA/CEA-861B support feature of clause 6.3 "Video Format Timing Specifications" overrides the EDID)

Adrian

Now, What's the difference between "forcing GPU to override EDID" and "re-writing EDID"? is the former trying to emulate it temperarily and the latter is just bascially rewriting the EEPROM permanently?

So, if the former is workable, you don't really need to do the latter, right?

The first is the graphics card sending something and hoping the display reads it OK. The second is recoding the internals of the display.

Yes, but the issue is "IF". I haven't had sucess overriding the EDID on my plasma ... yet :-).

Adrian

[Therm3l]

Got the panel yesterday.

I've only played around with it in terms of a *big* PC monitor, driven by my 6600GT with a DVI and VGA out.

1920x1080@60Hz via VGA results in a pretty good picture. Certainly good enough for a desktop.... but not great. Games look *amazing*. Its a bit disconcerting to have to move your head to follow the mouse from one side of the screen to the other.

My laptop has a 6600Go (VGA out) and looks *much* better driving the big screen.

Via DVI it seems to be crap. It seems like the 1920x1080 is either outputted at 1920x540 and bob'd into 1920x1080 or its interlacing the input. I havent as yet been able to fix that. Any tips? I'm pretty sure its the video card at fault.

Spent 30 minutes playing around with the media gateway - it seems to work. It plays everything my LG9921 DVD player does. Doesnt play WMV8 files. Plays 1280x720(ish) WMV9 files perfectly over the network. The card reader in the TV seems to have more bandwidth than the LG's. Its interface is a bit quicker than the Snazio 1350 that I had. I streamed an internet radio station that the TV knew about and it just worked - which is good.

The TV looks much better with the speakers removed

The refresh rate is good. Fast paced bits of the Matrix looked great.

[joker]

Got the panel yesterday.

I've only played around with it in terms of a *big* PC monitor, driven by my 6600GT with a DVI and VGA out.

1920x1080@60Hz via VGA results in a pretty good picture. Certainly good enough for a desktop.... but not great. Games look *amazing*. Its a bit disconcerting to have to move your head to follow the mouse from one side of the screen to the other.

My laptop has a 6600Go (VGA out) and looks *much* better driving the big screen.

Via DVI it seems to be crap. It seems like the 1920x1080 is either outputted at 1920x540 and bob'd into 1920x1080 or its interlacing the input. I havent as yet been able to fix that. Any tips? I'm pretty sure its the video card at fault.

Spent 30 minutes playing around with the media gateway - it seems to work. It plays everything my LG9921 DVD player does. Doesnt play WMV8 files. Plays 1280x720(ish) WMV9 files perfectly over the network. The card reader in the TV seems to have more bandwidth than the LG's. Its interface is a bit quicker than the Snazio 1350 that I had. I streamed an internet radio station that the TV knew about and it just worked - which is good.

The TV looks much better with the speakers removed

The refresh rate is good. Fast paced bits of the Matrix looked great.

Cheers for the review!!

I guess another reassurance for us lurking heads around with one hand over at back pocket..

SO....r u saying that 1080P@60 *actually* work (over VGA)?? This sounds really good! Have you compared the quality with 1080p@30 over DVI that other ppl have tried? Any differences?

And, how did you set up your network? over RJ45 or wireless? I just wonder what the performance over wireless is like.

I am gonna get one of those "network storage" devices and hook it up to my router, saving me from needing to turn on the computer all the time

[justifier]

Via DVI it seems to be crap. It seems like the 1920x1080 is either outputted at 1920x540 and bob'd into 1920x1080 or its interlacing the input. I havent as yet been able to fix that. Any tips? I'm pretty sure its the video card at fault.

I have the same problem with DVI output from my 7800GTX so I am not sure it is the video card. I am going to try VGA tonight via a splitter box. I am also going to try a dual link DVI cable via port 1. At the moment I am using port 2 (DVI) in clone mode.

I have also tried component out (HD 1080i) from this video card and it is pretty good although the picture is cropped all the way around on the TV by about 5%. Looks great with video from the PC.

[Therm3l]

In no particular order:

Network via ethernet. I have ethernet into the lounge room too, so I cant see myself using it (and I have an Airport Express going into my receiver in the lounge).

The LCD reports 1920x1080@30Hz when the real VGA output is 1920x1080@60Hz. But it looks good.

http://www.seriouswheels.com/pics-2005/200...A-1920x1440.jpg

Makes a really, really nice wallpaper

I've got a Radeon 9600Pro that I will try as well.

I'm going to get a DVI-HDMI cable and try and run the PC into the HDMI of the screen (I need one anyway for my DVD player).

There could be some magic Powerstrip timings that might make it work... I'll need to do some more testing. My HD-STB has DVI out as well, so I should try that too.

[xtractdigit]

The lcd will always report @30hz they dont need to go any higher.

[Ajax9000]

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The LCD reports 1920x1080@30Hz when the real VGA output is 1920x1080@60Hz. But it looks good.

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Therm3l,

Is that "real VGA output" 1920x1080@60Hz interlaced or progressive according to your graphics card?

'Cause in the EDID Acer calls 60i 30Hz -- wonderfully confusing :-)

Adrian