The new DVDO iScan VP30 Video Processor

[martincollings]

Here's an interesting thought. Is your Toppy asking for HDCP acknowledgement?

No not that i am aware of...

And, if it doesn't get it, is it putting out SD and doesn't really like giving you sound either?

No when I check the DVDO'd 'info' it shows it is receiving 1080i so i do not think that is the problem...

[JPP]

No not that i am aware of...

No when I check the DVDO'd 'info' it shows it is receiving 1080i so i do not think that is the problem...

I don't think that the info showing you 1080i is being received means that it's not HDCP encoded - it just shows that that's the signal coming in, encoded or not. Did you catch my edit re extra functions to set on HDMI input menus?

I'm going to try to get some shut eye now, so catch you in the morning.

Just one last thought. You said a minute ago that HD still looked like crap. What are you watching on your STB at the moment? AFAIK, in Sydney there's nothing but SD (and crappy SD at that) on right now. That'll look just as crappy on HD as it does on SD. Which shows do you use to "showcase" HD on your Toppy? SBS, ABC and Chan 7 will never look any better on HD as they're only 576p (and 720 hor res). You don't have an HD PVR do you?

[martincollings]

I don't think that the info showing you 1080i is being received means that it's not HDCP encoded - it just shows that that's the signal coming in, encoded or not. Did you catch my edit re extra functions to set on HDMI input menus?

Yeah what do you suggest I try - there is not a lot to tweak that I can see....

Just one last thought. You said a minute ago that HD still looked like crap. What are you watching on your STB at the moment? AFAIK, in Sydney there's nothing but SD (and crappy SD at that) on right now. That'll look just as crappy on HD as it does on SD. Which shows do you use to "showcase" HD on your Toppy? SBS, ABC and Chan 7 will never look any better on HD as they're only 576p (and 720 hor res).

True there is little on right now in HD, but....

Which shows do you use to "showcase" HD on your Toppy?

Generally any of the CSI shows on NINE are damn sharp, normally.

[AussieX3]

So there is no way of going back to firmware v1.0? I mean then your new card won't work though you can get the PQs u liked before at least..

Or even.. try loading the firmware again??? just like we sometimes reinstall Windows to make it work properly...

Sorry I may have not added any valued comments but I am worried (cuz my card is on its way and I have also only used v1.0 so far...)...

How come JPP isn't having any issue with his firmware and his gears...hmmm...

[JPP]

How come JPP isn't having any issue with his firmware and his gears...hmmm...

Oh, but he is... . I've posted plenty on this and the AVS forum about that! Still have a very occassional audio drop out, although much less so now since 1.07 and ABT102. But, the DD audio stream from the Toppy doesn't come through at all now. Before it would, but drop out as soon as you switched to another source and then come back to it. Still not a happy Jan.

But, when it all sings, you have to take your hat off and be impressed by what it can do - just want it to do it all the time .

Just on the issue on HD programs, there is a thread somewhere that list them all and the quality of each. Personally, I don't watch CSI that much, but although sharp, it's pretty grainy. I've found Six Foot Under to be much cleaner. Last night, whilst I was posting on Stratman's problems, I happened to catch something on chan 10 HD, around 9-10pm I think. Don't know what it was called - my Toppy's 7 day EPG has clicked over to today now, but it was very clean and sharp with no crushing of blacks. I could actually tell a difference between SD and HD when about 1.5m or closer from the screen. My normal viewing position is around 4m away, and at that distance SD and HD look the same on the average SD quality shows (when ported through the VP30). More than 90% of SD shows don't even come up to the maximum SD can support!

A so called HD show on chan 7, Boston Legal, is of course only in 576p, but is remarkable for its sharpness given the limited horizontal resolution. It badly suffers from crushed blacks though. And, it's much better viewed on SD through the VP30 than on HD 70.

If you want to see a really clean picture, have a look on the ABT102 test DVD montage. Viewed through an SDI modded Oppo, it rivals HD. Interestingly, the DVI output of the Oppo still has some noise on it. Again, when viewing it more than about 2 meters from the screen, you don't consiously see the grain, but the overall effect is still noticible even at my 4m viewing distance. To see fine lines, no more than 2 pixels wide, without any fringing or shadowing whatsoever, even when putting your nose to the screen, is a new experience. That chan 10 shows I talked about before came very close to that.

Phil.

Edited June 8, 2006 by JPP

[martincollings]

I could actually tell a difference between SD and HD when about 1.5m or closer from the screen. My normal viewing position is around 4m away, and at that distance SD and HD look the same (when ported through the VP30).

Phil I find this statement extraordinary, perhaps....

If you are saying that you can see no discernable difference between SD and HD when runnign through the VP30, then that can mean one of two things:

1) The VP30 is so damn good at scaling that it makes SD look just like HD

2) The VP30 is not passing through HD content very well and makes HD look more like SD

For me it was VERY obvious from 4 metres away which was SD and which was HD. Blind Freddy could see it!

Since upgrading, it is difficult to tell, but not because it is scaling SD so well, it is that it is killing the HD signal and making it look like SD. Does anyone else on this forum agree with Phil's experience?

[JPP]

Don't forget what I said earlier re screen size and screen resolution. Mine is 40in at 768 x 1280. It's well documented that at distances more than about 3m, you won't be able to resolve single pixels with this setup, but you will get the sensation that the picture is sharper, when going from say 2 to 1 pixel wide lines. With single pixel wide strands of hair for example, it will look a sharper picture the brighter that single pixel is.

Are you able to address your display at native resolution? If not, you won't be able to get the very best out of the VP30 as your display is doing some scaling. As a test, apart from using all the test patterns on the VP30, you should be able to see the VP30 menus with single pixel resolution - no bluriness around the pixels. The first few test patterns on the VP30 have single width pixel patterns. Can you see each and every pixel without any banding, either horizontally or vertically? If you have NR addressing, you can, if your display is scaling, you will see banding or dropped pixels.

I'm at a loss on what to further advise you to look for in your setup to fix your problem, apart from doing some thorough testing and reporting these finding here. I'd be very surprised if the VP30 is responsible for this - it does screw up many things, like locking up completely and having to literally pull the plug on it to get it going again, but lowering the resolution doesn't sound like one of them.

Phil.

Edited June 8, 2006 by JPP

[CliffofOz1503559525]

Phil...help!

I've been sitting here all morning trying to do the firmware upgrade, but without success. Is there a trick? The VP30 just sits there with the 'Load .abt file now..' message but nothing comes up on Tera Term.

Initially there was a problem with my UPS having control of the COM1 port, but I've uninstalled the UPS software and the port seems to function okay now. I also uninstalled the port (via Device Manager) and rebooted to freshen things up - my COM1 is now my COM3.

I've been able to confirm the port is woking okay using a test I found on the net - shorting pins2 and 3 and using Hyperterminal to verify that keystrokes are being echoed.

Is it something to do with the cable? The only cables I have are null modem cables. I've tried two - a Belkin and another freebie that came with the Toshiba J35. The DVDO site doesn't specifically say to use a null model cable (just mentions serial cable), but given I've always used null modem cables for firmware updates (e.g. Strong 5290 and Toshiba J35), I assumed it would be the same in this case...maybe not?

Suggestion please

Cliff

[Foggy]

Cliff, go back and check your VP30 box. There was a cable provided in the box that was specifically for upgrade purposes.

[CliffofOz1503559525]

Cliff, go back and check your VP30 box. There was a cable provided in the box that was specifically for upgrade purposes.

Thanks for that. Unfortunately, the box in buried within a bunch of other boxes in Fort Knox storage - poo! Don't know if can be bothered hunting for it, or maybe a quick trip to Harvey Norman might be quicker.

After a bit more hunting, I came across this which suggests that I definitely need a 'straight through' cable instead of the null modem ones I've been using. Doh!

Thanks again,

Cliff

[JPP]

Phil...help!

Suggestion please

Cliff

Sorry Cliff, still tying up loose ends before I set of on hols for a few weeks.

Foggy has already made the first suggestion I had and you've helped yourself since.

It is a bit tricky getting the FW U/G done, but it's difficult to stuff up the VP30, even though it may look like it. Basically, set the VP30 up first and have it waiting on the PC. So, set the VP30 menu up to Upgrade before sending the file. It will wait for you for a long time, so no rush. I know you read manuals, so you'll have all the right bits set up in TeraTerm. Remember to set them everytime you load the program though, as many of the parameters reset after exit. Make sure the baud rates of the VP30 and Teraterm match - the VP30 will default to 19200 whilst Teraterm defaults to 56 something KBaud. I set the VP30 to the highest baud rate, but your PC/Notebook might not sing along at that speed, so best to be conservative and stick to 19200 baud.

[Chui2]

So there is no way of going back to firmware v1.0? I mean then your new card won't work though you can get the PQs u liked before at least..

Or even.. try loading the firmware again??? just like we sometimes reinstall Windows to make it work properly...

Sorry I may have not added any valued comments but I am worried (cuz my card is on its way and I have also only used v1.0 so far...)...

How come JPP isn't having any issue with his firmware and his gears...hmmm...

I did the FW upgrade not long after release in anticipation of the ABT102 arriving. For me the audio dropouts have reduced. I'd say I'd get 1-2 dropouts per DVD length program.

Like others, there was a need for zoom/pan on some inputs, but that's it. I have seen no drop in PQ since the upgrade, but that's without the DI card yet. Fingers crossed.

Stratmans problems seem serious (especially if his expletives are anything to go by ). A dumb question if I may - is the splash screen on the VP30 showing 'VP30 + ABT102' to confirm that the card is being recognised. Apologies if you mentioned this.

Cheers,

Chui

[CliffofOz1503559525]

Sorry Cliff, still tying up loose ends before I set of on hols for a few weeks.

Thanks for getting back Phil.

Followed Foggy's suggestion and managed to dig the VP30 box out of storage and found the serial cable enclosed. No problems after that - hooked up the PC and VP30 and they started talking to each other. That was a huge relief because I've always had problems doing firmware updates (to Strong and Topfield) - I was convinced there was a problem with the COM1 port on the PC. It was only after a bit of poking around I found a tip that the UPS (Powerware) might have locked up the COM1 port - UPS is connected via USB, but it can also use the serial port so the software (Lansafe) must take control of it even if its not being used.

Firmware upgrade went without a hitch - now at 1.07.

Got everything plugged backed in and was expecting the worse after StratMan's problems.

I was half convinced that the I was having a similar problem as the picture quality was way off with the factory defaults. Initially it was horrible, then I got it to the point where it was 'okay' but HD stuff still didn't seem to shine (had some good HD material recorded on the J35).

Tried switching the HDMI connector from the J35 between the VP30 and directly to the display. Play the HD same footage over and over. My inclination is that it doesn't look as good via the VP30 as it does directly, but the difference is minimal and probably due to some fine tuning that needs to be with the Picture Control settings.

I was also having some 'sparkles' via the VP30. I knew these were due to cable issues, and found that the HDMI plug (from VP30 to display) wasn't full inserted into the VP30 - pushed it in a little further and the sparkles were gone.

Been running a couple of hours now and haven't had any audio dropouts. Very relieved at that. Note that I've never had audio dropouts before.

Toppy and DVD both look okay.

On the positive side, I've had a couple of fixes from the new firmware.

(1) My HDMI1,2 ports are now working again. These stopped working months ago, so I've been using HDMI3,4.

(2) The pulsating curtain problem that I had when HDCP was enabled is now fixed. HDCP is set on without any problems.

At this point, everything looking good. Looking forward to gettin ABT102 tomorrow and see what wonders it will do for the Toppy:)

Cheers,

Cliff

[martincollings]

My HDMI1,2 ports are now working again. These stopped working months ago, so I've been using HDMI3,4.

My day just gets worse - I noticed my 1 and 2 ports were not working too, and after the upgrade they STILL do not work!

[CliffofOz1503559525]

My day just gets worse - I noticed my 1 and 2 ports were not working too, and after the upgrade they STILL do not work!

Did you buy your unit from Geoff at eHome? When I mentioned the problems I'd had with my VP30, he was keen to arrange for the unit to be checked out by the distributors. I got the impression that he felt there shouldn't be any issues with the unit.

After the horror stories of the Toshiba J35, I can well accept that not all units are equal. Some units function near flawlessly while others refuse to play ball. It could be worth checking out if you find you alone in your problems.

I can't remember the name of the distributor, but I'll ask when I pick up the ABT102 tomorrow.

Cheers,

Cliff

[AussieX3]

Did you buy your unit from Geoff at eHome? When I mentioned the problems I'd had with my VP30, he was keen to arrange for the unit to be checked out by the distributors. I got the impression that he felt there shouldn't be any issues with the unit.

After the horror stories of the Toshiba J35, I can well accept that not all units are equal. Some units function near flawlessly while others refuse to play ball. It could be worth checking out if you find you alone in your problems.

I can't remember the name of the distributor, but I'll ask when I pick up the ABT102 tomorrow.

Cheers,

Cliff

Synergy Audio is the distributor I know.

http://www.synergy-audio.com/

I was half convinced that the I was having a similar problem as the picture quality was way off with the factory defaults. Initially it was horrible, then I got it to the point where it was 'okay' but HD stuff still didn't seem to shine (had some good HD material recorded on the J35).

You knew that you would lost all of your personal settings with the firmware upgrade right? So when you compare the PQ against your original firmware's PQ, you would have put all of your settings back to what it used to be then made a comparison???? but PQ on HD materials got worse??? I think this is quiet serious issue as many of us will soon start getting the card and firmware upgrade is a must...but the firmware is making things worse (in terms of PQ particularly...) so who else have upgraded your VP30 to this firmware and have similar issues???? I am getting my card tommorrow but it seems less likely I would put the card in unless DVDO release the final version of firmware (not beta) that will work with ABT102 card....

[JPP]

Hi Aussie,

Unlike Cliff, I didn't have to make any changes from my previous settings. But....my previous FW was 1.05 - I think - or was it 1.06?. Anyways, that may explain why. Sorry, but can't remember what I did when I went from 1.0 to the next. Each FW version has either made little or no difference to the audio problems I've had and still having, but the combination of 1.07 + ABT102 has improved the audio for me on most inputs. In going from version to version though, I've never seen a degrading of the video quality and I can't really see why you would.

Phil.

Edited June 8, 2006 by JPP

[cummo]

I've been running 1.07 for about a month with no real problems.

I finally got around to calibrating my new plasma last weekend. Using DVE,I calibrated the plasma first without the VP30 connected. The calibrated settings were all fairly neutral. It wasn't till I reconnected the Iscan that I realised how much its standard settings softened the image. Anyone experiencing perceived loss of picture quality with 1.07 should revisit their Iscan settings to make sure they are not the problem.

[AussieX3]

oh firmware 1.07 is now a final not the beta it used to be when I last looked at it...

I would assume that 1.07 will include all the firmware fixes of previous versions...

Would it be better to upgrade the firmware to 1.05 then to 1.07 sequentially rather than jumping straight off to 1.07???

looking at AVS Froum for last 30 minutes.. people did claim some PQ issues after the firmware upgrade with HD contents (cropping and not filling up the screen etc etc) and audio over HDMI sources.

I have no HDMI sources as yet so I would not have a clue whether any of my HDMI inputs would work or not..and reading what has been fixed on firmware versions 1.05 and 1.07 does tell me I should have a go at it...besides this is the only way I will get the new card working anyway....

[JPP]

Cummo, were you using the same res settings on your display after you connected the iScan? Most displays have separate setting for each resolution/frame rate, so if you changed it between watching DVE through your DVD player (576i, or is it an upconverting player?) and then connecting it through the VP30, you could also be needing to tweak your display.

Best to set your display up with the VP30's internal test patterns first, after selecting the output resolution on the VP30 that gives you the best picture on your display. Then switch to your DVD input, and adjust the picture controls. Use the half height test patterns of the VP30 together with the equivalent DVE ones to match up the DVD player setting with the VP30.

[martincollings]

Did you buy your unit from Geoff at eHome? When I mentioned the problems I'd had with my VP30, he was keen to arrange for the unit to be checked out by the distributors. I got the impression that he felt there shouldn't be any issues with the unit.

No I bought from Wicked Digital who are really keen for me to bring it in to them to check as well...The thing is the VP-30 took me originally about ten minutes to configure in my system and I was a happy camper. It is only since the upgrade that things have taken a turn for the worse.

I can't remember the name of the distributor, but I'll ask when I pick up the ABT102 tomorrow.

Synergy Audio Visual is the Oz distributor, I asked Wicked Digital about it today...

[Chui2]

Hi all,

Just received and installed the ABT102 and the IR lense at the same time. No sweat.

Only problem was that it took a 'hold menu and exit buttons and plug in power' reset for the unit to recognise the card.

Sad to say the only thing I've been able to watch so far is Ballamory with the kids. Have to admit that it looked significantly better. Playing with the odd/even deinterlacing options is a real eye opener.

Unfortunately, the new lense didn't make the discreet codes for the display profiles work from my Harmony remote. Has anyone else got these to work?

Cheers,

Chui

[cummo]

Cummo, were you using the same res settings on your display after you connected the iScan? Most displays have separate setting for each resolution/frame rate, so if you changed it between watching DVE through your DVD player (576i, or is it an upconverting player?) and then connecting it through the VP30, you could also be needing to tweak your display.

Best to set your display up with the VP30's internal test patterns first, after selecting the output resolution on the VP30 that gives you the best picture on your display. Then switch to your DVD input, and adjust the picture controls. Use the half height test patterns of the VP30 together with the equivalent DVE ones to match up the DVD player setting with the VP30.

You're probably correct regarding the resolution the plasma was receiving ie. 576i from the dvd player and 768p from the Iscan, but this has never been a problem before. Generally, different resolutions and connections don't effect the panels standard settings too much.

Because all my av gear is being sent to the Iscan first and then to the plasma via one cable at 768p, I decided to first calibrate the panel. At the same time I checked all the panels picture modes. Once the settings for these were established, I calibrated each piece of av gear at the Iscan and saved the settings into profiles. As i said in my previous post, to satisfy the DVE calibration patterns, I was surprised how much I had to adjust the Iscan from it's standard settings to get it right.

I remember when I first got the Iscan HD+. It's standard settings had the opposite effect when you first connected it into your system. On my setup its settings had to toned down.

[CliffofOz1503559525]

You knew that you would lost all of your personal settings with the firmware upgrade right? So when you compare the PQ against your original firmware's PQ, you would have put all of your settings back to what it used to be then made a comparison???? but PQ on HD materials got worse???

Knew it was recommended to do a factory reset, so I've got a page full of settings detailing each input. I noticed after I did it that there is a sample spreadsheet on the DVDO site for doing a similar thing.

I didn't put the picture settings (brightness, contrast, saturation) directly back to their old values as I tend to play around with them anyway - I find some shows need a bit of tweaking (e.g. Supernatural seems to need saturation cranked right up).

I think part of the problem is assessing the image is having an overly critical eye in that you tend to be searching for faults. We've been watching telly all night and at this point I can't say I'm noticing any difference in image quality. I think my earlier assessment of a possible degradation in image quality stemmed more from the teething process of picture parameters to look 'right'.

Just finished watching Prison Break it looked excellent - no complaints.

At this point, I have no hesitation in recommending an upgrade to 1.07. FYI, I went directly from 1.00 to 1.07 (bypassed 1.05).

Haven't had the issue of the image not filling the screen either - outputting 720p-50 to a 1280x768 plasma. Also no HDMI audio issues.

No I bought from Wicked Digital who are really keen for me to bring it in to them to check as well...The thing is the VP-30 took me originally about ten minutes to configure in my system and I was a happy camper. It is only since the upgrade that things have taken a turn for the worse.

I understand your frustation. There's a reason why things are working as they should, but finding that reason is the trick.

Out of the blue my PC started crashing intermittently throughout the day. No obvious changes no obvious trigger. Took me weeks but eventually tracked it down to insufficient voltage to CPU...still don't know if it is the PSU or the CPU that's causing the problem. I was all set to junk the PC and start from scratch before I stumbled across a clue that it could be voltage related. My fingers are crossed for you that you will have similar success

Cheers,

Cliff

[AussieX3]

Thanks CliffOz...

Here I go v1.07...... fingers crossed...I am getting it upgraded tonight to have it ready for my new card hitting my door 2mrw....