Andrew Wong Posted May 15, 2006 Share Posted May 15, 2006 I'm waiting for the new Oppo models to come out ( that send 480i/576i via HDMI ). However, from what I've read, an SDI modded DVD player should still look better because it bypasses the colour space conversion to 4:4:4 RGB by the DVD player. Still, for US$200 for the new Oppo (if and when it comes out), it's a damn sight cheaper than US$900 for the cheapest SDI option ( SDI VP30 card $400, SDI mod for DVD player $300, Oppo DVD player $200 ). I can't believe the difference is worth 4.5x the price. But if you NEEDED the best possible picture and were willing to pay, then keep the SDI card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foggy Posted May 15, 2006 Share Posted May 15, 2006 Sorry Phil, I should have been more specific; I intend to wait for the new Oppo 970H. The current 971H has those restrictions on the DVI out, but Kris Deering has a pre-release 970H and says that it does do it. There's a thread on this at AVS. I just don't think the money you spend on SDI modding a DVD player will give you a sufficient payback, but that's just a gut feel and not based on any empirical evidence, so I'm happy to be proven wrong.... then I might buy Aussie's SDI card!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPP Posted May 15, 2006 Author Share Posted May 15, 2006 Sorry Phil, I should have been more specific; I intend to wait for the new Oppo 970H. The current 971H has those restrictions on the DVI out, but Kris Deering has a pre-release 970H and says that it does do it. There's a thread on this at AVS. Trouble with 970H is that is has HDCP enabled over HDMI (even at 480i according to Kris) - a no go for me as my display (professional LCD panel) is not HDCP equipped. I've been following that thread ever since its inception. Some say that it won't be long before someone will crack the firmware to remove HDCP. Maybe I should have waited ordering that SDI module? Still, for US$200 for the new Oppo (if and when it comes out), it's a damn sight cheaper than US$900 for the cheapest SDI option ( SDI VP30 card $400, SDI mod for DVD player $300, Oppo DVD player $200 ). Wasn't as bad as that for me Andrew. Oppo 971H + VP30 SDI + Pixel SDI = Total of $630 aussie dollars inc freight (no duties payable on these items) - got Lenexpo to ship me the SDI card separately when I ordered it and the VP30 last December). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Wong Posted May 15, 2006 Share Posted May 15, 2006 Wasn't as bad as that for me Andrew. Oppo 971H + VP30 SDI + Pixel SDI = Total of $630 aussie dollars inc freight (no duties payable on these items) - got Lenexpo to ship me the SDI card separately when I ordered it and the VP30 last December). OK I got the prices a bit wrong. The VP30 SDI card is $299, the Oppo 971H would be $200.. and the PixelMagic is $150.. not including freight. so where do you get it for AUS $630 ? I do have a DV-S733 that I can be modded using the Pixel magic. So that's quite an interesting thought I might be interested in that SDI card ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AussieX3 Posted May 15, 2006 Share Posted May 15, 2006 Oh looks like I have just heated up midnight discussion... Ok.. I will wait till JPP does the fantastic mod and tell us how u love it... Sorry to take a 'wait and see' position guys... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sparky66 Posted May 15, 2006 Share Posted May 15, 2006 Anyone heard when the ABT102 deinterlacer card is arriving in Aust? Hi guys , Yeehah . I have finally received the ABT102 card. Am I the first in OZ ????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPP Posted May 15, 2006 Author Share Posted May 15, 2006 OK I saw the VP30 SDI card is $399, the Oppo 971H would be $200.. and the PixelMagic is $150.. not including freight. so where do you get it for AUS $630 ? OK, let's go through it. VP30 SDI USD100 + USD9 freight, Oppo 971H USD199 + USD56 freight. Pixel Magic SDI USD150 + USD18 freight. Total = USD523. This comes to AUD709 total at 75c/USD1. You're right, I was AUD79 short. Now, that's the numbers. But, will it all be worth it? That's the big AUD340 question (landed price of 970H at USD199 + USD56 freight). For me, as I already have the 971H and the VP30 SDI card, it was worth a gamble getting the Pixel magic card for AUD224 that's less than the 970H by some AUD110 in round numbers. And, as I mentioned, I don't have an HDCP equiped display, so I can't have an "unmodded" 970H. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jliang70 Posted May 15, 2006 Share Posted May 15, 2006 Hi guys ,Yeehah . I have finally received the ABT102 card. Am I the first in OZ ????? I order mine almost 1 and 1/2 weeks ago, I am upgrading HD+ and still waiting for vp30 with ABT102 card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPP Posted May 15, 2006 Author Share Posted May 15, 2006 Hi guys ,Yeehah . I have finally received the ABT102 card. Am I the first in OZ ????? Was wondering when you'd get yours. Now, who's gonna be the first to get it going? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Wong Posted May 15, 2006 Share Posted May 15, 2006 OK, let's go through it. VP30 SDI USD100 + USD9 freight, Oppo 971H USD199 + USD56 freight. Pixel Magic SDI USD150 + USD18 freight. Total = USD523. This comes to AUD709 total at 75c/USD1. You're right, I was AUD79 short.For me, as I already have the 971H and the VP30 SDI card, it was worth a gamble getting the Pixel magic card for AUD224, that less than the 970H. And, as I mentioned, I don't have an HDCP equiped display, so I can't have an "unmodded" 970H. VP30 SDI for $100 USD ? Because you bought a VP30 at the same time ? We'll see what the US mob say about the 970H. In the meantime I'll stick with analog component 480i/576i into my VP30. Just more money to throw away.. Next job: Custom SCART to RGB BNC Belden 1694A cable for the Topfield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPP Posted May 15, 2006 Author Share Posted May 15, 2006 VP30 SDI for $100 USD ? Because you bought a VP30 at the same time ? We'll see what the US mob say about the 970H. In the meantime I'll stick with analog component 480i/576i into my VP30. Just more money to throw away.. Next job: Custom SCART to RGB BNC Belden 1694A cable for the Topfield. Yep for your assumption re VP30 at the same time. You'll need a RGBs cable to connect the Toppy to the VP30. Alternatively, use RGB and connect the Video Out of the Toppy into the Sync IN on the VP30. Video signal always carries H and V sync signal. The Video RCA on the Toppy is always active. Fantastic picture through the VP30, particularly if you can NR and FR your display. Sorry if you already know all of this. I've found the PQ out of the 971H going through the VP30 to be better out of DVI at 576p than component at 576i. Now that I will have the ABT102 shortly, I can use the VP30 for improved de-interlacing over the Oppo's Faroudja chipset - hence SDI push. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darklord Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 Secrets have put up their impressions of the new ABT card for the VP30. Sounds excellent. If they can achieve this same level of performance with HD processing, it will be unbeatable. I recently had the chance to benchmark the DVDO iScan VP30 and commended it on its performance and feature standpoint. The VP30 added a few new features to the previous iScan line, including 10 bit proprietary scaling, HDMI switching, and some new tweaks to further improve the overall experience. I personally thought this would be the last thing I saw from DVDO until their follow-up unit came out (except firmware updates of course!). Little did I know that the folks at Anchor Bay Technologies (ABT) were working on their own proprietary de-interlacing solution to replace the already well received Silicon Image SIL504 that has been the core of the DVDO line for quite some time. This new solution is for SD material only, but the folks at DVDO are almost done with their HD de-interlacing solution that they plan on premiering later this year in a new video processor. The SD de-interlacing card is available as an optional upgrade to existing VP30 owners or can be added to any new orders. The upgrade comes in the form of a daughterboard that attaches to the main video board inside.Since I already had a VP30 running in my system, DVDO just sent me out the new daughterboard and directions on how to install it. Installation is extremely easy and doesn’t require much more than a screwdriver to open up the VP30. The board comes with two standoffs that attach to pre-existing holes in the main board, as well as a connector that snaps into a socket on the board. Installation is similar to the optional SDI board that can be ordered for the iScan HD or VP30. Once installed, the processor starts using this new board for all of its SD de-interlacing duties, and the results are superb. The SIL504 previously used is already an excellent de-interlacer, but it is a design that has been around almost as long as DVD. With new de-interlacing solutions upping the ante in cadence detection and diagonal line processing, the DVDO line was due for an upgrade. This new de-inerlacer takes the DVDO to a higher level of performance and easily matches or exceeds the performance of any video processing solution I’ve seen yet for SD material. This product brings up some new issues though. The Benchmark has always been a very intensive set of tests for SD video processing, and even now the majority of video processing solutions still have trouble with it. However, with the recent introduction of video processing solutions like the new ABT chip, the bar has been raised. Processing that we never really considered once is now achievable, and with that, the testing needs to change. We at Secrets will be adding new tests to the Benchmark over the next few months that will push the limits of video processors and incorporate the capabilities of the high-performance units out there such as the ABT design. Look for a complete revamp by years end! Running the ABT through our de-interlacing tests almost seemed pointless after awhile. The previous SIL504 had no issues, so I couldn’t imagine the ABT solution having any either. This was exactly the case. The chip performed flawlessly in every test, including 2-2. So instead of just leaving it at that, I decided to venture on to some harder test material. This included the Silicon Optix HQV Benchmark DVD and its mixed cadences tests and diagonal line torture tests. I also took a look at ABT’s own Video Reference Series DVD that will be shipping very soon. Like the HQV disc, the VRS DVD includes not only test material designed to show the difference between the ABT video processing and competitors but also real world material to show you how it correlates to everyday viewing. This test disc was created by Stacey Spears and Don Munsil who were the founders of the DVD Benchmark here at Secrets! On top of that, our very own Brian Florian created many of the test patterns and graphics for the disc. I highly recommend this disc for anyone looking for great test material to put his or her DVD player or video processor through the ringer. One of the big differences I found with the ABT board compared to the SIL504 was diagonal line processing. This is a feature that was exclusive to the Faroudja based video processing chips for a long time. Using the HQV test disc and some of the Faroudja test patterns available I was able to compare the ABT to both Faroudja and Silicon Optix’s Realta processing. The ABT did a phenomenal job in every respect, matching the DCDi processing, and actually exceeding the performance of the HQV processing. Using real world material, the three solutions performed on a very similar level. The HQV chip in my reference Denon DVD-5910 had some difficulty with some of the Faroudja test material, but the ABT did just fine. Some of the more difficult material required me to change the de-interlacing mode of the ABT chip, but the results were well worth it. The HQV solution still performed a bit better with mixed cadences, including those commonly found in foreign animation. It would also lock onto high detail images with mixed cadences a bit faster. The ABT was better at holding the cadences though, once it locked on. This was evident using HQV’s reference DVD. The Super Speedway clip is a bit of a torture test for high frequency detail, and the HQV couldn't hold the image intact through their reoccurring loop. The ABT locked on to the material and held it through the loop. The only other chip I’ve seen that can do that is the Gennum VXP in my reference SSP, the Anthem Statement D2. Conclusions The ABT-102 SD de-interlacer is a welcome addition to the iScan line and continues DVDO’s reputation for delivering top of the line performance at very attractive prices. The daughterboard is being offered at a significant discount for early adopters, but will be going up in price after awhile, so if you are interested, get one now. The ABT-102 is every bit as good as any other de-interlacer I’ve seen, and exceeds most of them in diagonal line processing and mixed cadences. Congratulations to Anchor Bay Technologies and DVDO, and we hope to see more from this chip in other hardware soon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gino Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 This new solution is for SD material only, but the folks at DVDO are almost done with their HD de-interlacing solution that they plan on premiering later this year in a new video processor. Does this mean I need to upgrade my processor again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darklord Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 Does this mean I need to upgrade my processor again? If you want advanced motion adaptive 1080i->1080p de-interlacing, then I’m afraid so! However this would generally only be worthwhile on large 1080p screens (that support 1080p input) that don’t already have high quality de-interlacing onboard. The benefits with motion adaptive 1080i de-interlacing for use on a 720p/768p are still significant, but whether it’s worthwhile comes down to the individual display. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gino Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 If you want advanced motion adaptive 1080i->1080p de-interlacing, then I’m afraid so! However this would generally only be worthwhile on large 1080p screens (that support 1080p input) that don’t already have high quality de-interlacing onboard.The benefits with motion adaptive 1080i de-interlacing for use on a 720p/768p are still significant, but whether it’s worthwhile comes down to the individual display. So... group buy anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jliang70 Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 Does this mean I need to upgrade my processor again? I will wait and see the upgrade cost for the new processor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foggy Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 Yeehah . I have finally received the ABT102 card. Am I the first in OZ ????? Well Sparky..... what's the verdict?! ___________________________________________ ...and I'd say you probably are the first in OZ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_marcelo Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 Helios Website of the DVD player... upt to 1080p out!! If the new oppo takes much longer, I'd be looking at this player.... Helios, with 576i/480i, out from HDMI ...... talked about at the AVS forum lately....about the same price as the oppo.... even 768p for those without external scalers is possible with this DVD player..... not bad for US$195 plus shipping..... the price of an SDI card by itself???? NEODIGITS HELIOS HVD2085 PRODUCT FEATURESPlayback format options: DVD/ SVCD/ VCD/ CD/ HDCD/ MP3/ WMA/ Photo-CD Upscales standard DVD titles into high-definition resolution Up to 1080p support via Component HDMI 1080p support. High-definition output options via Component interface in 720p, 1080i and 1080p High-definition output options via HDMI interface in 720p, 1080i, 1080p, 640x480, 800x600, 1024x768 and 1280x1024 480i/576i output options via HDMI. Ideal for using with an external scaler. High-definition output options via VGA interface in 640x480, 800x600, 1024x768 and 1280x1024 High-definition output options via DVI (via HDMI to DVI cable) interfaces NTSC 720p/ 1080i/ 1080p support at 60hz PAL 720p/ 1080i/ 1080p support at 50hz place to buy?? Helios DVD Player Its worth further investigation.... I'll try my player out with 576i via component first and see if its 'good enough' before buying another oppo/helios/insertnamehere ..... Cheers, Marcelo PS: New toppy masterpiece Black with 300GB HDD in today.... loving it... 2 toppys now.... when am I going to watch anything???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Wong Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-bin/sho...&deInt=0&mpeg=0 The Neodigits 2805 has been tested. There is a chart that compares it to the Helios, but assuming they have the same MPEG decoding chip, then it's just a different firmware with the same fundamental issues. It looks promising but there are issues (as with many DVD players) that make it unsuitable as a VP30 DVD transport. I think the Oppo 971 w/SDI is a pretty nice looking "today" setup, albeit a fairly costly outlay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martincollings Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 Helios Website of the DVD player... upt to 1080p out!! I saw one of the newer Helios units in Wicked Digital the other day: http://www.neodigits.com/new/body/products/Xline/diagram.asp From what I could make out it was a sales rep or someone showing them the unit, and testing it out. I had a quick look at it and the thing looked awesome. It looked to me to be a very expensive unit in terms of build quality etc. I asked them if they were getting them in and they said they would be but were not able to tell me when....oh well, another wait! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c912039 Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 Ive got the SDI add-on board for the VP30, and a Pioneer 969AVi DVD player modded with SDI output. Unfortunately, I havent been able to do a direct comparrison between 576i component/567i HDMI and 567i SDI into the VP30 yet, as Ive had some cabling issues. I havent bought my HDMI cables for the DVD to VP30, or VP30 to my projector yet. But worse, ive tried a couple of different cables tha I thought I could use for the SDI interconnect, and so far, Ive got differing levels of 'sparklies' depending on which cables I use. Ill be very interested, once Ive got my cabling sorted out, to what advantages and disadvantages there are with each interface. Regards David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norpus Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 I'm waiting for it to arrive to also install the IR lens replacement... do all at once.... I think I have missed something... what is this lens replacement for please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foggy Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 I think I have missed something...what is this lens replacement for please? It replaces the lens on the IR Receiver. The original lens gave very limited IR range and angle when using the remote control. The news lens improves the distance and angle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norpus Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 It replaces the lens on the IR Receiver. The original lens gave very limited IR range and angle when using the remote control. The news lens improves the distance and angle. Oh goody. I was hoping that it might be that, as the IR response is weak. Do we order ex GB dealer? How much Foggy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foggy Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 Oh goody. I was hoping that it might be that, as the IR response is weak.Do we order ex GB dealer? How much Foggy? It's a freebie norpus, as it's really a warranty issue. If you bought the VP30 locally, which you did, just contact the local distributor Synergy Audio and they'll post one out to you. PM me with your email address, and I can send you the installation instructions if you have trouble finding them on the DVDO site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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