Waiting for LG 71" LCoS 1080p!

[OzHTfan]

I'm confused!

That manual states that the TV can accept 1080i via HDMI/DVI from a digital set top box but only 1280x768 (max.) via DVI from a PC.

How does it know whether it is connected to a PC or an STB? If it will accept 1080i from an STB, then why not a PC (HTPC). Surely, it is just a case of setting the right output for your video card (even if using Powerstrip is required)?

The manual also states:

Avoid having a fixed image remain on the screen for a long period of time. Typically a frozen still picture from a VCR, 4:3 picture format or if a CH label is present; the fixed image may remain visible on the screen.

TO AVOID BURNING IMAGE INTO THE DISPLAY, DO NOT HAVE A STILL IMAGE ON SCREEN FOR EXTENDED PERIOD OF TIME. IMAGE AFTER BURN WILL NOT BE COVERED UNDER WARRANTY ie.Menus, Video games, Borders or LOGOS.

I thought this technology didn't suffer from this?

I think they're stating pure PC resolutions and timings supported ie if you took a generic laptop and plugged it in. This of course would have nothing to do with a PC that's putting out a HDTV resolution like 1080i 60hz via DVI from the likes of say an Nvidia or ATI card. I don't think they though out the possible input scenarios too well, but hey thats LG rushing to market I'd say.

The one thing that I've picked up from the manual is no sign of signal support beyond 1080i. This sounds all to similar to the situation with the US Sony SXRDs and lack of 1080p input support. Still it's not a deal breaker for me.

[Owen]

I think we should wait and see what the LG delivers mate. Let's not write off it just yet. I would probably be as reluctantly to buy an LG as you nor do I trust their CR specs. However, if Sony is going to try to keep us here sitting on our hands to Q3 they can forget it I'll be actively seeking an alternative.

Owen, I'm a bit surprised on your assumptions of how you are going to run your theoretical SXRD. I know the AVS guys have made some good observations and tried a lot but I'd be waiting till I had one on hand. As comparison there's no way I'd leave the DI(dynamic IRIS) off on my VPL projector, the positive effect on contrast ratio is just too good for me to ignore. Comparing the lack of black on the Qualia to the VPL in DI mode, there is more than enough black level with the VPL in DI mode. Mind you I am now using DarrenP from AVS's service menu settings for DI and haven't had much time to date in the last few weeks for viewing comparison against standard settings. I'm yet to have the 'Brightness compression' problem(using the DI) draw my attention yet, however I also haven't gone looking for it with the kind of material that is meant to bring it out.

Gday OzHTfan,

I have no problem waiting another 6 months or so, as I have been waiting 6 years for a decent large digital TV to come along.

As for the dynamic iris, well a RPTV is a very different animal to a front projector.

With the front projector you need all the light output you can get, but the SXRD RPTV’s, like most digital rear pros are TOO bright for my viewing environment.

Best blacks are obtained by using the smallest iris setting, and larger settings are only of use if you want a higher peak light output. That is something I definitely do not want, as my main concern is getting light output down to an acceptable level. (about 10-15ftL)

To that end, a smaller iris, or a neutral density filter may need to be installed in the light engine.

At least with the Sony, the dynamic iris can be disabled, and iris is manually adjustable.

The best solution would be a lower power lamp, but that is not an option.

I have never heard of anyone on AVS even considering modifying there SXRD as I am proposing.

I guess I’m just a bit more serious then most.

I cannot use a front projector in my viewing environment, but I have considered using a front projector in a rear projection configuration.

That would involve cutting a large hole in a wall to mounting a rear projection screen.

The projector would then be set up in the adjoining room to project onto the back of the screen.

Unfortunately there are problems with this idea. Apart from considerable cost (the screen alone will cost thousands) and inconvenience there the is significant problem of the very excessive light output from a digital front projector, and the inability to control it.

I imaging that looking directly into the lens of a Ruby is going to be VERY bright, even with a diffusion screen in between the lens and the viewer.

A CRT projector like a G90 is an option, as complete control of light output is assured, and the CRT’s should last for many years when not driven hard.

I would really want to see such a setup in operation before I would lay out 20-30k.

Before I go to such extremes, I will wait and see what the SXRD’s are like.

If it is not significantly better then my Hitachi (very possible), I will wait for the Panasonic 65” 1080p Plasma or SED.

[OzHTfan]

Gday OzHTfan,

I have no problem waiting another 6 months or so, as I have been waiting 6 years for a decent large digital TV to come along.

As for the dynamic iris, well a RPTV is a very different animal to a front projector.

With the front projector you need all the light output you can get, but the SXRD RPTV’s, like most digital rear pros are TOO bright for my viewing environment.

Best blacks are obtained by using the smallest iris setting, and larger settings are only of use if you want a higher peak light output. That is something I definitely do not want, as my main concern is getting light output down to an acceptable level. (about 10-15ftL)

To that end, a smaller iris, or a neutral density filter may need to be installed in the light engine.

At least with the Sony, the dynamic iris can be disabled, and iris is manually adjustable.

The best solution would be a lower power lamp, but that is not an option.

I have never heard of anyone on AVS even considering modifying there SXRD as I am proposing.

I guess I’m just a bit more serious then most.

I cannot use a front projector in my viewing environment, but I have considered using a front projector in a rear projection configuration.

That would involve cutting a large hole in a wall to mounting a rear projection screen.

The projector would then be set up in the adjoining room to project onto the back of the screen.

Unfortunately there are problems with this idea. Apart from considerable cost (the screen alone will cost thousands) and inconvenience there the is significant problem of the very excessive light output from a digital front projector, and the inability to control it.

I imaging that looking directly into the lens of a Ruby is going to be VERY bright, even with a diffusion screen in between the lens and the viewer.

A CRT projector like a G90 is an option, as complete control of light output is assured, and the CRT’s should last for many years when not driven hard.

I would really want to see such a setup in operation before I would lay out 20-30k.

Before I go to such extremes, I will wait and see what the SXRD’s are like.

If it is not significantly better then my Hitachi (very possible), I will wait for the Panasonic 65” 1080p Plasma or SED.

Instresting stuff Owen. You are pretty hard core man. I didn't know you were talking about modding an SXRD.

I know what you are saying about having waited this long already. But my take is with US HD-DVD out this month(and Blu-ray in May) and a Toshiba player ordered, I want my daily viewing RPTV to be able to display the full capability, not just my weekend use projector(I don't even get to use it every weekend).

I may know this arvo how the LG is, one of the local HN guys was in quoting some equipment for me and told me 2 just arrived. However, upon just putting a call through to the manager, he's not so sure they've arrived. He will call back if they are in...

EDIT: False alert, D'OH! Guy from HN who told me this morning had mistaken the models it turns out, no 71 LCOS's yet I'm afraid...

Edited March 3, 2006 by OzHTfan

[Owen]

Instresting stuff Owen. You are pretty hard core man. I didn't know you were talking about modding an SXRD.

I know what you are saying about having waited this long already. But my take is with US HD-DVD out this month(and Blu-ray in May) and a Toshiba player ordered, I want my daily viewing RPTV to be able to display the full capability, not just my weekend use projector(I don't even get to use it every weekend).

Not only am I contemplating modifying the light engine of an SXRD, but I will also attempt to reposition the light engine closer to the mirror to reduce or eliminate overscan, as I have done to my Hitachi RPTV.

I have no interest in BluRay or HDDVD until I can rent the disks, and I don’t expect that to happen this side of 2010, and by then I expect to have upgraded again.

I don’t tend to watch the same title many times, so it makes no sense for me to purchase disks.

There is plenty of 1080 HD available with a few clicks of a mouse, and I am not talking about recompressed stuff either.

There is very little if any 1080 content that has a real resolution above 1600 horizontal, even though there are 1920 horizontal pixels in the video, so a display that can resolve full 1920 is not required, and probably wont be for quite some time.

I don’t expect BluRay or HDDVD will change that situation in the near term, but time will tell. Better HD mastering equipment and cameras, as well as high bit rates will be required.

My Hitachi is resolving about 1600x1080, so I am not missing out on real resolution, and I don’t expect a 1080p digital display to be a big step up in performance, in fact they are potentially worse in many areas.

The idea of a bigger screen is what is driving my interest in upgrading, but if it comes at the expense of digital artefacts, poor blacks or SSE, I’ll pass.

[OzHTfan]

Not only am I contemplating modifying the light engine of an SXRD, but I will also attempt to reposition the light engine closer to the mirror to reduce or eliminate overscan, as I have done to my Hitachi RPTV.

I have no interest in BluRay or HDDVD until I can rent the disks, and I don’t expect that to happen this side of 2010, and by then I expect to have upgraded again.

I don’t tend to watch the same title many times, so it makes no sense for me to purchase disks.

There is plenty of 1080 HD available with a few clicks of a mouse, and I am not talking about recompressed stuff either.

There is very little if any 1080 content that has a real resolution above 1600 horizontal, even though there are 1920 horizontal pixels in the video, so a display that can resolve full 1920 is not required, and probably wont be for quite some time.

I don’t expect BluRay or HDDVD will change that situation in the near term, but time will tell. Better HD mastering equipment and cameras, as well as high bit rates will be required.

My Hitachi is resolving about 1600x1080, so I am not missing out on real resolution, and I don’t expect a 1080p digital display to be a big step up in performance, in fact they are potentially worse in many areas.

The idea of a bigger screen is what is driving my interest in upgrading, but if it comes at the expense of digital artefacts, poor blacks or SSE, I’ll pass.

Wow man didn't realise you went that far with the Hitachi, that's pretty serious tweaking mate. If that works with the SXRD too cool. I like tweaking,modding, building and taking some PCs and some electronics apart but I wouldn't have the Cahones to do that to an SXRD. I can't vouch for the SXRD rear pro because I haven't seen any blu-ray demo'd on one, but on large projection image I was pretty amazed by full 1920x1080 material at those large screen sizes. I'm going to have a play this weekend with some HD clips and DiscoveryHD this weekend on the VPL which should be fun.

I hear you on the lack of rental scenario. I myself am a DVD collector, but am now in the wind down process of offloading titles I will be to replace on HD-DVD or Blu-ray as the become available. There won't be much at first, but I'll live with it.

Know exactly what you mean about being able to access HD material. Only in the last 2 months have I become a total .NZB convert. The only thing is I can't justify the bandwidth to download a movie in HD .ts @ 10-12 gigs at home, as I'm on a rippoff local wireless scenario ($250 for 10g @ speeds up to 4mbps). I can use the business connection over the weekend, but there hasn't been much to download lately movie-wise(I check Newzbin every day). I do like however being able access today's TV content under 1 hr no p2p and watch that night .

[Guest niko2]

mistake, sorry

Edited March 3, 2006 by niko2

[Guest niko2]

Englewood Cliffs, N.J. — LG Electronics notified dealers that its has dropped plans to ship a pair of LCoS rear-projection HDTV sets that were previously announced at its dealer show and at International CES.

“We have received an update from our factories regarding the production status of the new 71SA1D and 62SA1D LCoS HDTVs.” Bob Perry, LG Consumer Electronics sales VP, stated in a letter that went out to dealers Wednesday. “Based on certain parts procurement issues, the future production date of these models for the U.S. market is uncertain.”

The models were to have been the first LCoS microdisplay HDTV sets for the LG line. However, the company was unable to procure LCoS chips to meet its delivery schedule. Meanwhile, Perry said the market for micro-display rear-projection products has continued to decline as demand for flat-panel televisions has increased.

“Based on the growth in the large-scale plasma market as well as strong growth of LCD there are serious questions about the size of the microdisplay market in the future. We expect substantial shrinkage in the market for microdisplay products this year and next year we see even more dramatic shrinkage. So, there are serious questions as to the future viability of microdisplay as a TV format.”

Perry said the LCoS models have been removed from the lineup “to avoid negatively impacting dealer assortment and business planning” Perry said an announcement would be made if the company decides to reinstate the products.

In the meantime, LG will continue to market two DLP rear-projection HDTVs under the LG brand and two under the Zenith brand from last year’s line. Two new DLP models are planned for the Zenith line in June, the company said.

LG joins a list of manufacturers that had previously announced plans to market LCoS rear-projection sets, only to drop the products when display chips became difficult to obtain.

Exceptions have included Sony, with its SXRD products, and JVC with its D-ILA products. Both companies have introduced new LCoS models last year that have done reasonably well in microdisplay market share surveys.

WHAT DOES THAT NEWS MEAN FOR AUSTRALIA?

WHAT DOES IT MEAN FOR EUROPE?

GREETS

NIKO

[bizzibee]

Not to make you guys jealous, but one of my mates in Sydney just got a new LG 71" LCoS 1080p to replace his 'Faulty' 61" DLP. The unit he got was going to be the store's Demo model. Anyway he had to pay the difference in price between the 61" DLP and the 71" LCoS. The problem with the 61" DLP was it wouldn't display PAL DVDs in Progressive mode using the Component input. He has been waiting months for the new 71" LCoS to arrive so they could take back the 61" DLP.

Anyway he is very happy with it. They didn't supply a stand for it yet. So he is using the stand from the 61" unit until he gets one. He sent me a picture of the unit on the stand. He had to add some mods to the stand to ensure the unit was stable on the stand.

Bad news about LG dropping the LCoS range. Perhaps with Canon/Toshiba's SED about to burst onto the Market they thought they would get hammered. I mean surely they don't think Plasma and LCD would do that.

Mark

[Owen]

Constraints on supply of LCoS chips or light engines is more likely the cause then any threat from SED.

SpatiaLight make the chips and maybe the light engine as well.

The US market for RPTV’s is huge, has stiff competition, and margins are tight, so it makes no sense to sell in a market with low margins when you cant ship enough product to make it worthwhile.

SED is years away, and anything in the 70” class with be VERY expensive.

[OzHTfan]

Frankly I'm pretty amazed LG can take that line in the light of Sony's SXRD microdisplay success stories. Or are they conceding that their unit can't compete perhaps and that they are better off sticking to the crowded and more homogenous world of flat panel displays perhaps.

Hey Bizzibee, what dealer did he get the LCOS through? It might be an indication of what retailers or chains are getting them first.

Perhaps a call to LG is in order to clarify the local situation as I'm always cautious when I hear about manufacturers backing away from one market not to automatically assume it's global. Perhaps they see the current hole not being filled (by Sony) in the Australian market and some prestige value for the brand if they supply our relatively small market.

[pietro1503559499]

Owen, why do you say SED is years away? Castel expects them this year. Maybe not 70" though.

[Owen]

Yes I heard that story from Castel as well, however according to recent press releases from Canon-Toshiba, the release of SED displays has been delayed yet again, so availability of SED in Oz before 2007 is highly unlikely, and even when it is released, it will almost certainly only be a 55”.

Personally, I am not interested in purchasing a first generation model, and 55” is way to small.

For a second generation model in 65-70”, I am expecting to have to wait til 2008.

The Sony SXRD’s will have to fill the gap until then.

People who assume SED will be the be all and end all of display technologies are getting ahead of themselves, as know one has seen a production model, only a small prototype.

I’ll believe it when I see it.

[DavoNogo]

When will you be getting that SXRD, btw?

[Owen]

Don’t know Davo.

SXRD should be here before the end of the year, but we may not get the 70”. If not, I’m not interested, and even if we do, it will need to be better overall then what I have, which is not guarantied.

If the SXRD does not do it for me, it’s going to be another 6-12 month wait for 1080p Plasma or SED, although SED certainly sounds the more promising option.

Time will tell, and there is no use worrying about it until it happens.

Technological change happens slowly when you are watching it.

I’ve been waiting 6 years for an acceptable big digital HDTV to show up here, so I am not holding my breath.

[laurie]

Don’t know Davo.

SXRD should be here before the end of the year, but we may not get the 70”. If not, I’m not interested, and even if we do, it will need to be better overall then what I have, which is not guarantied.

If the SXRD does not do it for me, it’s going to be another 6-12 month wait for 1080p Plasma or SED, although SED certainly sounds the more promising option.

Time will tell, and there is no use worrying about it until it happens.

Technological change happens slowly when you are watching it.

I’ve been waiting 6 years for an acceptable big digital HDTV to show up here, so I am not holding my breath.

I bring one back for you Owen from HK 2 SED's are better than one!

cheers laurie

[BLACKLR]

For all those guys who live in Melbourne, there is a unit on display at Clive Peters in Thomastown. I was pretty impressed, however being the owner of the LG 152cm rear pro I am going to road test this before I commit. I was impressed by the look of the unit the and sound output. Need more time to take the unit through its paces.

[Adamantium]

For all those guys who live in Melbourne, there is a unit on display at Clive Peters in Thomastown. I was pretty impressed, however being the owner of the LG 152cm rear pro I am going to road test this before I commit. I was impressed by the look of the unit the and sound output. Need more time to take the unit through its paces.

Ooh, thanks for that info BLACKLR - I'm going to go there and have a look at it today.

We also have the MW60 - It was only last week we gave up on our store credit with Beta Electrical; the store in Richmond where we got out MW60 from is absolutely useless. We told LG the problems we have been having with the manager there, and Trudy said she'd organise a cheque instead. She got back to us not long after saying its all been approved and we'll have it within 4 weeks (does this seem a bit ambitious?)..

[OzHTfan]

Ooh, thanks for that info BLACKLR - I'm going to go there and have a look at it today.

We also have the MW60 - It was only last week we gave up on our store credit with Beta Electrical; the store in Richmond where we got out MW60 from is absolutely useless. We told LG the problems we have been having with the manager there, and Trudy said she'd organise a cheque instead. She got back to us not long after saying its all been approved and we'll have it within 4 weeks (does this seem a bit ambitious?)..

Seeing as my hope of seeing one locally last week turned out to be a complete false alert, can someone go and have a good look at one? Perhaps take some test material to check the black levels(after setting them first of course)? A copy of SWEIII would be a good way to test the black level in action. I won't get too carried away and ask that the colour tracking be checked, as I'm pretty sure it's unlikely to be that great out of the box. It may be difficult to do in store, but it's worth seeing if you can get the lighting in the area of the set turned down for a few minutes to get a truer feel for it.

Look forward to hearing some feedback

Cheers

[Adamantium]

Seeing as my hope of seeing one locally last week turned out to be a complete false alert, can someone go and have a good look at one? Perhaps take some test material to check the black levels(after setting them first of course)? A copy of SWEIII would be a good way to test the black level in action. I won't get too carried away and ask that the colour tracking be checked, as I'm pretty sure it's unlikely to be that great out of the box. It may be difficult to do in store, but it's worth seeing if you can get the lighting in the area of the set turned down for a few minutes to get a truer feel for it.

Hi, I just came from Clive Peters now and saw one there, the guy said they have 6 units on display around vic, but only two left in stock(??).. I'm not really an expert on black levels, colour tracking and all that other jazz, but as for myself I really was quite impressed - but like I said, I have no idea what to look for, to me it just looks good - to someone who knows what to look for it could be a completely different story. They were running the usual 9HD Loop, and close up (<1.5m) it didn't look too good, a bit blurry even, but they played a few DVD's and that looked better than I can remember anything looking on the MW60 (contrast wise) but it is really hard to tell without putting them side-by-side.

The price they had listed there was $8999, plus $745 for the stand! They did however say they could probably do it for $9000, plus $80 delivery (inc stand).

Oh, they also had a 60" version, which I didn't even know existed.

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi...item=5832650046

I called this guy in VIC and he said delivered, with stand $8200 - Is there any reason not to buy one from these people? He said they buy direct from LG, and they come with the same LG 1 year warranty as I would get from Clive Peters or anywhere else, and with tax invoice/receipt...

Edited March 7, 2006 by Adamantium

[OzHTfan]

Hi, I just came from Clive Peters now and saw one there, the guy said they have 6 units on display around vic, but only two left in stock(??).. I'm not really an expert on black levels, colour tracking and all that other jazz, but as for myself I really was quite impressed - but like I said, I have no idea what to look for, to me it just looks good - to someone who knows what to look for it could be a completely different story. They were running the usual 9HD Loop, and close up (<1.5m) it didn't look too good, a bit blurry even, but they played a few DVD's and that looked better than I can remember anything looking on the MW60 (contrast wise) but it is really hard to tell without putting them side-by-side.

The price they had listed there was $8999, plus $745 for the stand! They did however say they could probably do it for $9000, plus $80 delivery (inc stand).

Oh, they also had a 60" version, which I didn't even know existed.

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi...item=5832650046

I called this guy in VIC and he said delivered, with stand $8200 - Is there any reason not to buy one from these people? He said they buy direct from LG, and they come with the same LG 1 year warranty as I would get from Clive Peters or anywhere else, and with tax invoice/receipt...

I orginally got interested when I saw these guys on ebay back in Jan, when LG had told me there were none in the country. I then emailed this ebay store and asked how it is they had theirs i.e. are they grey market or something. The got back to me and said no, well actually, they had some in Dec but didn't have any at the moment and would get back to me when they arrived (and no they weren't grey market). I said thanks and suggested they change their ebay page to reflect their lack of stock.

If they're cheaper and you get the LG warranty, I can't see why you wouldn't buy off them.

[gusangora]

Are you sure that the 60" was LCoS, and not DLP?

[Adamantium]

Are you sure that the 60" was LCoS, and not DLP?

Ah yeah, my bad! I didn't think the DLP model looked so similar (I didn't look too closely at it, but it looked the same as the 71" just smaller).

Sorry about that

[mizu]

SXRD should be here before the end of the year.

Been on hiatus. Has there been a press release or something? Google gives me nothin.

[gusangora]

No, it's just a hopeful guess.

Sony will not confirm anything.

Best guess at present is 3rd quarter this year, but who knows? They keep putting it off.

[Owen]

Been on hiatus. Has there been a press release or something? Google gives me nothin.

The UK release is scheduled for September, so the international version of the SXRD’s will be in production by then.

When we will see them is anybody’s guess, as Sony Australia have made no comment as far as I know.

If they are available in the UK, it will be possible to get one, even if Sony Australia don’t want to play ball.