Panasonic Plasma "running in period"

[digitalhome]

Just thought I would post this to ease the minds of Pana Plasma owners. It is confirmed that NO running IN period is required on the latest range of Panasonic Plasma panels as they have a large factory (can't recall where) where each and every plasma panel is run on half settings for a minimum of 100hrs to check for screen defects, abnormalities etc. This confirms why there are minimal complaints about dead/stuck pixels with these displays. Good one Panasonic! Go for the best settings straight out of the box!

I wish all manufacturers took this approach.

Panasonic still blame the issue with screen shift on the source(set top box etc.) and not the panel as the plasma's HDMI input conforms with the appropriate standard. Do set top boxes conform? Is this why most STB's now have the screen shift function? I guess not the end of the world on this issue now that it is easily resolved with the right STB + panel configuration.

[PersianImmortal]

Interesting if this is true. The best way to confirm this would be to check the Service Menu 2 where total panel time is shown.

Unfortunately I can get into Service Menu 1, but not Service Menu 2 - anyone know exactly how to trigger SM2 on the panas?

I've already tried the instructions here or here and I can't get service menu 2 up.

[dtp]

Just thought I would post this to ease the minds of Pana Plasma owners. It is confirmed that NO running IN period is required on the latest range of Panasonic Plasma panels as they have a large factory (can't recall where) where each and every plasma panel is run on half settings for a minimum of 100hrs to check for screen defects, abnormalities etc. This confirms why there are minimal complaints about dead/stuck pixels with these displays. Good one Panasonic! Go for the best settings straight out of the box!

I wish all manufacturers took this approach.

Panasonic still blame the issue with screen shift on the source(set top box etc.) and not the panel as the plasma's HDMI input conforms with the appropriate standard. Do set top boxes conform? Is this why most STB's now have the screen shift function? I guess not the end of the world on this issue now that it is easily resolved with the right STB + panel configuration.

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ddarby, where did you get this information from?

[digitalhome]

ddarby, where did you get this information from?

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although I work in the industry, It came right in a face to face conversation with an executive from Panasonic. As for the hour timer during testing, did you even consider that Panasonic can reset this from the Factory? Of course they can!

[PersianImmortal]

As for the hour timer during testing, did you even consider that Panasonic can reset this from the Factory? Of course they can!

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Yes, of course they can. But why would they? The Service Menu is only supposed to be accessed by technicians, so the average consumer need never know. And surely if they run in their sets for quality and burn-proofing purposes, they would want to promote, rather than hide this fact, no?

[digitalhome]

Yes, of course they can. But why would they? The Service Menu is only supposed to be accessed by technicians, so the average consumer need never know. And surely if they run in their sets for quality and burn-proofing purposes, they would want to promote, rather than hide this fact, no?

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I can't see the need to promote running in a plasma to the bulk of potential buyers. Lets be serious, only probably 10-15% (only a guess) of buyers are like us, they have genuine interests in the manufacture, the ins and outs of the products in the audio/visual industry,we want to find out every detail of the product we have or about to purchase. The bulk of the buyers of plasma panels( and please don't disagree with this, I have many years invested in this industry) are the average family looking for a bigger tv and or replacement and go by the picture quality/sound/size/looks/price (u know what I mean) and would not particularly care about a running in period etc.or know how it applies to a tv. They buy it new, they and us expect the plasma to work perfectly from out of the carton. Is there any mechanical parts that need to bed in into a plasma? No! This is from the customer's mind. But I do think Panasonic should promote this as a benefit to customers over and above the competition. Running in a plasma has been happening in the Panasonic factory since they started producing the vieras, but it's a shame they have only limited it to the flat panel displays.

As for the timer, I am interested for someone with the panel straight out of the box establish how many hours are on their display. Not a big issue, but I stand to what I was told. And by memory, I can't recall a single viera being returned for credit with faulty pixels, and that's from more that 11 stores and over 110 displays.

BTW, sorry for the long post.

[PersianImmortal]

Don't get me wrong, I'm hoping what you say is true (I have the PV500A too). At the moment I'm probably about 30 hours into my run-in period and it's annoying me because I'm not game to put on a letterbox DVD for 2 hours, and I'm running most everything on my STB in Zoom.

But it would definitely be in Panasonic's benefit to promote this. I agree that the average person knows nothing about burn-in and breaking in a plasma. However some consumers have heard of burn-in (e.g. when a salesman is trying to convince them of spending more on LCD instead of Plasma..."it has no burn-in like plasma does").

A lot of computer hardware which is quality tested has a sticker or certification to say it has been tested for quality and is free of errors (e.g. RAM tested and certified to do CAS2 @ certain speeds). Panasonic could differentiate even further by doing this.

Anyway I can't get into my Service Menu 2 to check the time - again I'd appreciate someone telling me how. The two methods I link to above and which are commonly repeated throughout this and other forums don't seem to work for me. I can only get into service menu 1.

[dtp]

Just thought I would post this to ease the minds of Pana Plasma owners. It is confirmed that NO running IN period is required on the latest range of Panasonic Plasma panels as they have a large factory (can't recall where) where each and every plasma panel is run on half settings for a minimum of 100hrs to check for screen defects, abnormalities etc. This confirms why there are minimal complaints about dead/stuck pixels with these displays. Good one Panasonic! Go for the best settings straight out of the box!

I wish all manufacturers took this approach.

Panasonic still blame the issue with screen shift on the source(set top box etc.) and not the panel as the plasma's HDMI input conforms with the appropriate standard. Do set top boxes conform? Is this why most STB's now have the screen shift function? I guess not the end of the world on this issue now that it is easily resolved with the right STB + panel configuration.

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Yes, you're right. I just checked with Panasonic.

[PersianImmortal]

And I've posted in the burn-in thread the fact that Pioneer hired IDC to do research on burn-in, and found that modern plasmas do not suffer from burn-in at all. They left a static image on the screen for 48 hours, and although there was obvious image retention, it was gone within 24 hours of regular use.

I've calibrated my Pana and am enjoying it at 78% Contrast, the way it's meant to be. No problems, no image retention (as yet), and congrats go out to Pana for their excellent sets

[ozboyz]

We are using a DSE 8000 STB and DVI to HDMI and it will not allow us to alter aspect ratio ie the Pana remote will not change the picture image at all, which we are concerned about as during adverts we get those lovely black bars at either side of the image. If the new plasma's do not suffer burn in and do not require a run in period that would be excellent news indeed as we would love to see the screen in all its glory.

ozboyz

[bigg]

ozboy

I have noticed this as well.. I think when you connect anything to the panel

at either 720p or 1080i resolutions you can not change it.

I have my xbox connected at 720P via component on AV4 and when i select the aspect it will do nothing.

But with my STB on svideo on AV1 i can use it.

Also my DVD player on componet via AV2 i can switch.. but that is only set to progressive out

perhaps someone who knows more can explain?

Does the Panasonic lock the aspect of an input if you put 720p or 1080i into it?

[phreek]

I've paradoxically found MORE image retention with lower brightness and contrast figures than I do with 'normal' contrast like 75-80. The 4:3 black curtain bars leave retention for minutes when on lower contrast of 50, but on 80 and proper adjusted black level I see NO bar image retention even after a whole program of 4:3 for 30 minutes.

[ozboyz]

I got home late from work last night and so only had the joy of watching the TV for about 30 minutes before having to crash. The picture quality at the lesser setting of approx 46% is not that bad. I am however going to rejoice when I can crank the Pana up to full potential. However I have just rang the Pana helpline and spoke to a lovely girl who said she could not find any technical specs to confirm that they do a run in period. I forwarded her the press release from Pana from November 2004 which gives directions for running in periods, at her request, and she said she would speak to one of the on-site technitian regarding this and get back to me later today. I will feed back tonight on this if I get a reply by then.

ozboyz

[ozboyz]

The Topfield STB works fine and we are able to alter the televisions aspect ratio with that. I do not know what cables are connected to this as I did not do the set up, but obviously it is not a DVI connection as that has been allocated to the DSE 8000.

We are really newbies to all of this wonderful technology. We love our gadgets, but get lost in all the technicality of it all.

Our DVD player is one of those 5 disc Sony all in one amp devices so everything we run sound wise is plugged into the back of this which offers us limited possibilities. We chose this approach as we were trying to compact everything ie this unit acts as our radio, cd player and amp whereas before we had stand alone hi-fi, amp etc. Being in a small appartment we decided to downsize all of this to one piece of equipment ie the Sony DVD player. So we now have a SD STB (the Toppy), the HD STB (the DSE) and the Panasonic DVD recorder (basic model) plugged into the back of the Sony. We have to work out how to get the Playstation running.

ozboyz

ozboy

I have noticed this as well.. I think when you connect anything to the panel

at either 720p or 1080i resolutions you can not change it.

I have my xbox connected at 720P via component on AV4 and when i select the aspect it will do nothing.

But with my STB on svideo on AV1 i can use it.

Also my DVD player on componet via AV2 i can switch.. but that is only set to progressive out

perhaps someone who knows more can explain?

Does the Panasonic lock the aspect of  an input if you put 720p or 1080i into it?

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[Guest c.exton]

I got home late from work last night and so only had the joy of watching the TV for about 30 minutes before having to crash.    The picture quality at the lesser setting of approx 46% is not that bad.    I am however going to rejoice when I can crank the Pana up to full potential.    However I have just rang the Pana helpline and spoke to a lovely girl who said she could not find any technical specs to confirm that they do a run in period.    I forwarded her the press release from Pana from November 2004 which gives directions for running in periods, at her request, and she said she would speak to one of the on-site technitian regarding this and get back to me later today.  I will feed back tonight on this if I get a reply by then.

ozboyz

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Any news from Panasonic?

[phreek]

I remember the Panasonic document with run-in recommendations up to 1000 hours.

100 hours of bench testing/run in would add considerably to the cost of manufacturing plasmas, but speaks very good things about Panasonic if true. But what of the other 900 hour recommendations for gentle settings?

Perhaps the technology has advanced enough to not need this?

[PersianImmortal]

As I said, read the IDC/Pioneer white paper from August this year (See my post in the burn-in sticky). They demonstrate that modern plasmas don't suffer from burn-in anymore, only image retention which quickly goes away.

[ozboyz]

Nope. Not a sniff or whisper of a reply. Which I must say is disappointing. When I spoke to Kathryn at Panasonic she said that they rely on feedback from people to help improve, but they are not showing much improvement if they are not able to reply to questions in a specified time frame.

Another thing that I pointed out to her was the instructions for attaching the pedestal. The manual tells you to put the TV flat on the floor and to slide the stand into the holes. However the depth of the pedestal itself does not allow you to do this. You need to life the frame from the floor in order to slide the fixing poles in. Not a huge drama but certainly one that I found awkward in having to lay the TV flat on the floor and went through the panic stage of not wanting to cause any damage. This is our new baby, and the thought of anything happening to him is just too much to consider.

Any news from Panasonic?

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[PersianImmortal]

I had the same thought - I wasn't going to lie my panel flat on the ground when i've heard plasmas need to be kept upright. I had to lift the panel (upright the whole time) onto the stand poles, lower it evenly onto them (took a few tries) then steady it as I screwed everything in. The 42" version weighs 40KG so I imagine it's even harder with the 50KG 50" version.

[bigg]

agreed.. this was really stupid.. with the 50'' i need 2 people to lift it and me to guide

the screen into the stand. the 50'' weighs 68kg

To do it the was of the instructions you would need to put it on a table and slide the stand in but the stand is bloody heavy and i would hate to see what would happen next

[digitalhome]

I remember the Panasonic document with run-in recommendations up to 1000 hours.

Can you remember more about your claim please?

100 hours of bench testing/run in would add considerably to the cost of manufacturing plasmas

How are you able to substantiate this? I would have imagined it would cost the company more to have the units go into the marketplace, then at at cost to them for the travel back, the repair, repackage not to mention the cost of word of mouth.

Perhaps the technology has advanced enough to not need this?

Fingers crossed for all that buy the latest generation of plasmas.

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[phreek]

I remember the Panasonic document with run-in recommendations up to 1000 hours.

Can you remember more about your claim please?

Not a claim but a fact. There was a link to a Panasonic PDF document that had information in relation to run-in which said very gentle settings to 100 hours followed by gentle settings for another 900 hours before you went to full settings.

Search around for it or someone may provide a link.

100 hours of bench testing/run in would add considerably to the cost of manufacturing plasmas

How are you able to substantiate this? I would have imagined it would cost the company more to have the units go into the marketplace, then at at cost to them for the travel back, the repair, repackage not to mention the cost of word of mouth.

Every step you add to manufacturing a product adds to the costs. To have manufactured plasmas require a 100 hour - 4 day continuously on period is going to raise costs. Even the electricity cost would be sizeable where even a few dollars over thousands of units adds to margins. So that part is clear.

Why would they need to travel back, repair, repackage? What's the problem we're talking about exactly? Obviously all electronic products have a QC where they are plugged in and tested to make sure they aren't DOA. How would 100 hours of "run-in" help. Can you substantiate your supposition of extra repairs etc. based on this premise?

Most plasma buyers are mums and dads and don't care a bit about the odd dead pixel which they won't ever see or find or look for! They won't run it in, nor will they be anal about checking the screen for solarisation, jitter, jubber, blubber or baloney. They'll put it up and run it straight out of the box on standard settings. That's the truth of the matter, and I can assure you that the anal side of this AV hobby lies solely within places like these forums where it's commonplace.

[PersianImmortal]

The 100 hours/1000 hours claim is in this Panasonic white paper:

http://www.panasonic.com/consumer_electron...=12&cont_id=822

However that paper is from late 2004, and refers to previous generation plasma panels.

The current testing I am referring to comes from an August 2005 Pioneer white paper:

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pio/pe/i...20-%20FINAL.pdf

Which clearly states that:

The commonly held beliefs about the viability and performance quality of plasma TVs turn out to be merely myths when held up to the discerning eye of quantifiable testing. In particular, concerns about plasma lifetimes and image retention ("burn in") are half-truths  that  may  have  been  legitimate  concerns  for  early  generations  of  plasma displays, but are non-issues with today's current generation products. Yes, plasmas may show signs of retention if still images are left on the display for very long periods of time (such as 24 hours or more), but even in this extreme example, the result is only  temporary.  Today's  plasma  TVs  essentially  heal  themselves  with  subsequent viewing of regular TV material. As a result, more common scenarios of 5 to 10 minute (or even several hour) image pauses will not cause permanent damage.

They ran a test in which they left a static image on screen for 48 hours straight. They came back to find it had indeed left a retained image on the plasmas they tested, however after 24 hours of running a DVD loop on the plasma, all evidence of image retention was gone.

The point is that pausing your plasma for a few minutes, or watching DVD materal in letterbox format (i.e black bars top and bottom) for a couple of hours is not going to do any damage to a Generation 8 Panasonic panel. At worst you may get some image retention which quickly goes away.

I've been doing exactly that over the last few days, and even with higher contrast (78 contrast, 46 brightness are my calibrated values) I have not seen a smidgeon of image retention from 4:3 material, letterbox DVD material, channel logos etc.

As to whether panasonic test their sets, I'm still skeptical - if they do it would be in their favour to make it a well-known and publicized fact because it would cost them a signficant amount extra in return for much higher quality control.

[phreek]

Thanks for that PersianImmortal.

I'll post it here so it can remain in case the Panasonic link dies some time in the future...

When the plasma is initially installed, videophiles say it is best to do the following:

·       Make sure the display is in a viewing mode (aspect ratio) that completely

     fills the screen (there are often three or more settings from which to

·       choose). The panel is shipped in this condition, in what is called the

     “Just” mode.

·       Turn down the picture control (contrast) to 50% or less.

·       Briefly engage the 4:3 mode to confirm the side bars are set to mid-gray

    (there is usually an adjustment in the Set Up menu that takes the

     sidebars from black to gray) to minimize the chance of burn-in.

·       Return the set to a “full screen” (Just, Zoom, Full) position during the

     first hundred hours of use.

·       During the first hundred hours of use it is best not to view the same

    channel for extended periods. This should prevent channel logos and

    other fixed images found on some channels from being retained.

·       Avoid any static images (video games, computer images, DVD title

    screens, etc.) during the hundred-hour break-in.

After the hundred-hour break-in period, during the next nine-hundred hours:

·       Continue to retain the picture setting at 50% or less.

·       Limit the use of 4:3 aspect ratio mode (traditional picture size that does

    not fill the entire screen) to 15% of viewing time.

·       Limit the use of static images (computer, video games, etc.) to less than

    10% of viewing time.

After one-thousand viewing hours, panels are much less likely to experience image burn-in.

Just be careful of the August 2005 white paper. It relates to Pioneer research and most likely Pioneer panels. I'd presume the Panasonic information is still applicable/accurate till proven otherwise.

The 100 hours/1000 hours claim is in this Panasonic white paper:

http://www.panasonic.com/consumer_electron...=12&cont_id=822

However that paper is from late 2004, and refers to previous generation plasma panels.

The current testing I am referring to comes from an August 2005 Pioneer white paper:

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pio/pe/i...20-%20FINAL.pdf

Which clearly states that:

They ran a test in which they left a static image on screen for 48 hours straight. They came back to find it had indeed left a retained image on the plasmas they tested, however after 24 hours of running a DVD loop on the plasma, all evidence of image retention was gone.

The point is that pausing your plasma for a few minutes, or watching DVD materal in letterbox format (i.e black bars top and bottom) for a couple of hours is not going to do any damage to a Generation 8 Panasonic panel. At worst you may get some image retention which quickly goes away.

I've been doing exactly that over the last few days, and even with higher contrast  (78 contrast, 46 brightness are my calibrated values) I have not seen a smidgeon of image retention from 4:3 material, letterbox DVD material, channel logos etc.

As to whether panasonic test their sets, I'm still skeptical - if they do it would be in their favour to make it a well-known and publicized fact because it would cost them a signficant amount extra in return for much higher quality control.

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[PersianImmortal]

Just be careful of the August 2005 white paper. It relates to Pioneer research and most likely Pioneer panels. I'd presume the Panasonic information is still applicable/accurate till proven otherwise.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

IDC probably did test Pioneer panels, because Pioneer commissioned the tests, so undoubtedly IDC would have minimized their testing costs by asking for test panels from Pio.

However IDC would also probably have gone to the length of claiming that they can only vouch for Pioneer panels being burn-in resistant, or something along those lines, if they believed the results only applied to Pios. This would have made their sponsors happy, and would also have been a valid caveat to post as a footnote to their results for example.

Since they used the term "today's current generation products", I'm still inclined to think they're referring to all latest-gen plasma panels, and given Panasonic is in the lead with Plasma, I doubt they'd be behind Pioneer in burn-resistant technology.

You're right though in that if people want to be cautious until further solid evidence, they should follow the pana white paper. I've personally taken a different route, since 1000 hours = almost a year for me, and I'm not going to watch distorted/zoomed 4:3 material at low contrasts, or feel guilty about watching letterbox DVDs (i.e. the bulk of my collection), "just in case" for that long