Pioneer 505/435 Buzz

[Laryngoscope]

Recently had a pioneer 505 installed and from the get go noticed a terrible buzzing projected from the front of the screen. Worse on the right side and very directional (can't hear it above or below the panel, but at normal viewing height smacks you right in the head).

As is the case with plasma buzz it is worse with high contrast scenes (ie. screen UI elements on, movie credits, etc)

It requires quite high volume to "drown" it out, and even then because of the high frequency is often difficult to mask. It also seems to "affect" me more than the wife - she didn't notice it till I told her, and even then it doesn't bother her much! But boy does it both me, I guess that is what dropping almost 9K can do to your sensitivities

I am surprised there hasn't been more of a mention about this problem here as the american's seem to be having similar problems to me:

http://www.highdefforum.com/showthread.php?t=2679

(The 1120 uses the same panel as the 505)

Just to check I listened to a few Pios in several stores (435 and 505) and what do you know they buzz pretty loud too (despite the background noise/music). Then I realised why many retailers have plasmas on the floor or over your head ... Difficult to hear buzz!

Of course I called Pio and they are sending a tech out, but from what I have been able to ascertain, it is almost certain they will claim it is normal.

So ... anyone else with a 435/505 care to comment? If I have an unusually loud buzz compared to others with similar equipment I may be able to put pressure on Pio for a replacement.

Just for reference I live at sea level, the panel is stand mounted at normal viewing height, and I would need to set my volume to at least 25 to drown the buzz out .

Cheers

[Tony M]

I can't hear any buzzing at all from my 505. The media box fan is fairly quiet too, which is more than I can say for the one in my 510 Pioneer dvd recorder. Even then, it can't be heard from a normal viewing position. If you have to turn the volume up to 25 to drown it out, that's unacceptable. Moreover, it should be measurable from the viewing position with a sound level meter. Handy gadget to have and pretty cheap at DS/Tandy. I'd be measuring the plasma noise levels and kicking up a fuss...what you describe is not normal.

[IanT1503559901]

I had a 505 installed on Friday .... so early days, but no buzzing sound that I can hear.

I have not come across this before regarding the Pioneers, .... surely, this is one of the reasons you went Pioneer ?? ... ie. 5yr warranty etc. Call them to address the problem. ... good luck

[Laryngoscope]

I am glad you guys don't hear a buzz at all. Thats great! If any of you live in Newcastle I would dearly love to come over and listen

However as I clearly heard the same Buzz projected from the front panel from both JBHIFI (505) and Domanye (435) floor stock, and given the number of complaints from the american's (see link in original post) I suspect it may be just more than the fact that I have a bad egg!

Zekey, great Idea re: SPL meter. I think I will pick one up and do some actual measuring. Will help with setting up speakers as well.

One sure way to clearly hear the buzz is as follows:

Mute all audio.

Select an input which has no signal (black screen)

Bring up the TV menu (This will put a high contrast image - the menu on the screen).

Sit at normal viewing distance ~ 3.5 - 4 meters

Ensure you are centered with the screen (ie. head roughly in the middle) - If the panel is wall mounted way above your head you prob won't hear it, conversely if it is lower.

At this stage I can clearly hear the buzz.

The noise can be accentuated by turning your head left or right 90 degrees.

Beware, once heard you will never be able to watch again without hearing the buzz in the background sound, that is why if you don't hear it don't go listening for it

Even Pioneer themselves agree to increased noise from these panels

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/pres...1756437,00.html

quote

"First Surface Pure Color Filter: This reproduces the most brilliant lifelike colors possible that provide consumers the most accurate picture quality. Pioneer’s new technology uses one less piece of glass than in previous models, reducing environmental waste in manufacturing and eventual recycling. It improves picture quality by reducing reflection and increasing black levels; however the elimination of the glass may create a slight increase in plasma noise."

Depending on the definition of slight

I will keep bugging Pio about it.

[Strawb]

Even Pioneer themselves agree to increased noise from these panels

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/pres...1756437,00.html

quote

"First Surface Pure Color Filter:  This reproduces the most brilliant lifelike colors possible that provide consumers the most accurate picture quality.  Pioneer’s new technology uses one less piece of glass than in previous models, reducing environmental waste in manufacturing and eventual recycling.  It improves picture quality by reducing reflection and increasing black levels; however the elimination of the glass may create a slight increase in plasma noise."

Depending on the definition of slight

I will keep bugging Pio about it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

....and here I was verging on outlaying my hard-earned next week!

I know there are others on this forum with the 434 (does it apply to the series 4 models?), 435 & 505 models. Let's hope they will add their input to this issue fairly soon.

[trippy]

I have a 435, and I can only hear a loud buzz when I change channel ie the screen goes black. However volume is usually always at 25-30 and viewing distance is about 3.8m. There is a very faint buzz while viewing a movie/tv, but not enough to annoy me. Quite strange.

[scanman]

I have owned the 434 and 505 (both wall and table mount) and have never heard the buzz you and some others have talked about. I don’t know if its individual panels that buzz or its just some people can hear it and others cant. I tried to reproduce the sound as per your instructions and still did not hear it. I have read a lot of posts both in the US and particularly on this UK AV Forum. If you search “buzzing pioneers” there is a lot posted about the subject. Some people blame different settings, inputs and even altitude. It seems all panels buzz to some degree, particularly those like the pioneer without fans. Some people have had power supplies replaced by Pioneer with some success where others have swapped multiple times and still been plagued by it. I would suggest if you are bothered by it (and you are) persist with Pioneer and I am sure you will get satisfaction. I live in Newcastle, if you care to PM me with your number I'll give you a ring and maybe lend you an ear.

[elisiX]

I never noticed this sound even though ive only had my 435 for 3 days. Went up to the panel, listened right up to it on the right hand side and I hear a fan, thats it.

.. my bloody PC fan is louder then that, so it doesnt bother me at all.

[scanman]

Bit of a worry if you heard a fan inside the panel, Pioneer don't put fans in there panels only the multimeadia box.

[Laryngoscope]

Well Pio came and picked up the panel yesterday. Both the pick up guys could clearly hear the buzz from 3.8 meters. I seriously hope the pio tech can fix it but realistically I have my doubts. As corporate pio themeselves deny there even is a problem, hence I doubt they have issued a service bulletin.

I note in the latest US and UK forums there is (confussion about, but) a suggestion that Pio *DO* have a real fix for the buzz which they are incorporating into the line for models built presumably after Feb 2005 (mine was mfc Jan 2005!)

The panel is < 1 month old. I could easily cope with it gone for 2 weeks if I knew it was going to be fixed properly, but if it comes back in 2 weeks with potential workshop dings and with the same Buzz I will be majorly pissed.

Zekey: I measured the SPL. It is less than 40dB which is the limit of my meter and although that doesn't sound loud, it is of a frequncy which can just cut through the air (and even high masking volume) with ease

Scanman: Thanks for your kind offer. When I get my panel back I might take you up on your offer. BTW you have some very nice kit

[jamesboags]

Didn't they leave a replacement unit while the other is being repaired... I thought this was all part of the 5 year warranty ?

[Oblig]

I could easily cope with it gone for 2 weeks if I knew it was going to be fixed properly, but if it comes back in 2 weeks with potential workshop dings  and with the same Buzz I will be majorly pissed.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Don't they usually provide a temporary replacement while yours is being "fixed"?

[Laryngoscope]

Yeah I initally thought so as well!

see:

After Care Service

http://www.pioneeraus.com.au/home_entertai...05hd/index.html

However there is no mention of a replacement in pio's warrenty statment

http://www.pioneeraus.com.au/home_entertai...layPanel37.html

I live in Newcastle so options are very limited here with regards to servicing. It is not like Syd or Melb. The guys that came and picked up the panel were wearing Sony shirts, the panel will be going to a local electronics repair shop with *hopefully* a pio tech, but who knows??? They told me they rarely see pio panels let alone 50" and that is why I needed to give them everything (ie. remote, cables, media box, even stand) as they wouldn't have anything like that in the shop to actually run the screen!

This is why I hold out little hope that it will be fixed

Given the shortage of pio panels here in Newcastle I can see why a replacement panel is out of the question. Not that bothers me too much, provided mine gets fixed properly I can wait.

Addit:

After re reading the after care service

"After care service In the unlikely event of a service issue with your Pioneer Plasma display, we’ll install a loan model while we take yours away for assessment and repair if necessary."

The grammar is not clear, it could be interpretted as "if pioneer deem it necessary we will loan you a replacement."

I will keep you posted

[Strawb]

Yeah I initally thought so as well!

see:

After Care Service

http://www.pioneeraus.com.au/home_entertai...05hd/index.html

However there is no mention of a replacement in pio's warrenty statment

http://www.pioneeraus.com.au/home_entertai...layPanel37.html

I live in Newcastle so options are very limited here with regards to servicing. It is not like Syd or Melb. The guys that came and picked up the panel were wearing Sony shirts, the panel will be going to a local electronics repair shop with *hopefully* a pio tech, but who knows??? They told me they rarely see pio panels let alone 50" and that is why I needed to give them everything (ie. remote, cables, media box, even stand) as they wouldn't have anything like that in the shop to actually run the screen!

This is why I hold out little hope that it will be fixed

Given the shortage of pio panels here in Newcastle I can see why a replacement panel is out of the question. Not that bothers me too much, provided mine gets fixed properly I can wait.

Addit:

After re reading the after care service

"After care service In the unlikely event of a service issue with your Pioneer Plasma display, we’ll install a loan model while we take yours away for assessment and repair if necessary."

The grammar is not clear, it could be interpretted as "if pioneer deem it necessary we will loan you a replacement."

I will keep you posted

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The grammar couldn't be clearer. There are no hidden meanings/statement from what I can see....IMO, you've copped a 'bum steer" (every salesman I have spoken to in various stores has raved about Pio's service levels, inc. receiving a replacement panel until your's is repaired/replaced).

But like you said, you're happy as long as it quickly comes back repaired.

I am still deciding on which brand/model to buy, but until lately I was definitely leaning towards Pioneer. Now, given the Pio buzz problems & service levels being discussed on this forum, I'm in extreme doubt again!

Any other users here with similar Pio service probs?? I'm starting to waiver towards Fuji again!

[scanman]

What has happened to you is unacceptable, have you spoke to a product or service manager at Pioneer Australia (Melbourne)? The panel should be replaced, dont accept this from Pioneer, they can and have done better. Ring the Pioneer 1800 number and demand satisfaction. Dont take no for an answer.

[westcoast1503559952]

Had my pio 505 for one and a half weeks now - no problems with noisy fans etc.

Could not be happier with the whole system and would recommend to anyone.

[detect]

Had my pio 505 for one and a half weeks now - no problems with noisy fans etc.

Could not be happier with the whole system and would recommend to anyone.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I've had a 505 for a couple of weeks but have heard no buzzing at all coming from the plasma. Are you sure the buzzing is coming from the actual display and not caused by an audio stream being transmitted?

[jamesboags]

Own a 435 and no buzzing ...

[Strawb]

Own a 435 and no buzzing ...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks for the feedback guys.

I needed reassurance on the Pio models!

For whatever reason, there seems to be some posters around this forum that like taking potshots at Pioneer (and this always causes doubts in new buyers' minds).

[Laryngoscope]

Strawb,

I hardly think I was taking a "pot shot" at Pio as you seem to think.

The Buzz I am experiencing has been clearly documented by perhaps 50+ owners in the states and UK (see the prior links). I am *NOT* making this up simply to undermine your confidence in Pio.

If the Buzz of a fluro tube doesn't bother you then probably the Buzz from the series 5 panels won't either (although if I paid 8.5K for a fluro tube hmmm ...) I think it depends very much on your hearing sensitivity to boot.

To everyone who has a Pio which doesn't Buzz congratulations and enjoy. Apart from the Buzz I just loved the PQ and style. In fact I loved it so much it was very hard for me to call Pio and complain because after reading the OS forums I knew Pio would most likely do zip about it but inconvience me greatly for it. I was tossing up for several days wether I should just put up with it or not. In the end it was my wife who told me to phone Pio as she knew I would never be truely happy. Incidently the Buzz simply doesn't seem to bother her at all and I had to point it out to her in the first place (she never would have heard it if I didn't); so hearing sensitivity obviously has alot to do with it.

I have heard the exact same Buzz from no less than 3 display models in Newcastle now! (JBHIFI, Domayne and most recently HN). I have been listening for Buzz in other models and altough I can hear Buzz from the back of most (which *is* normal) I don't get the irritating "frontal projection buzz" the Pios have. My father in-law just bought a 42" Hitachi ED and I can hear no buzz from the front of that panel in his home envirnoment either.

So in summary Strawb, If you have acute hearing or are unable to cognitively filter certain frequencies I think it is quite likely you will hear buzz. For a acid test why not just listen to the panels yourself. Remember that the sound is very directional. If you mount the panel up high or sit off to one side (left side) I doubt you would hear it at all.

Cheers

[westcoast1503559952]

Strawb,

I hardly think I was taking a "pot shot" at Pio as you seem to think.

The Buzz I am experiencing has been clearly documented by perhaps 50+ owners in the states and UK (see the prior links). I am *NOT* making this up simply to undermine your confidence in Pio.

If the Buzz of a fluro tube doesn't bother you then probably the Buzz from the series 5 panels won't either (although if I paid 8.5K for a fluro tube hmmm ...) I think it depends very much on your hearing sensitivity to boot.

To everyone who has a Pio which doesn't Buzz congratulations and enjoy. Apart from the Buzz I just loved the PQ and style. In fact I loved it so much it was very hard for me to call Pio and complain because after reading the OS forums I knew Pio would most likely do zip about it but inconvience me greatly for it. I was tossing up for several days wether I should just put up with it or not. In the end it was my wife who told me to phone Pio as she knew I would never be truely happy. Incidently the Buzz simply doesn't seem to bother her at all and I had to point it out to her in the first place (she never would have heard it if I didn't); so hearing sensitivity obviously has alot to do with it.

I have heard the exact same Buzz from no less than 3 display models in Newcastle now! (JBHIFI, Domayne and most recently HN). I have been listening for Buzz in other models and altough I can hear Buzz from the back of most (which *is* normal) I don't get the irritating "frontal projection buzz" the Pios have. My father in-law just bought a 42" Hitachi ED and I can hear no buzz from the front of that panel in his home envirnoment either.

So in summary Strawb, If you have acute hearing or are unable to cognitively filter certain frequencies I think it is quite likely you will hear buzz. For a acid test why not just listen to the panels yourself. Remember that the sound is very directional. If you mount the panel up high or sit off to one side (left side) I doubt you would hear it at all.

Cheers

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sound is very directional??? I thought light was very directional and with sound it depended on the influencing characteristics of sound (such as tonality, modulation and impulsiveness) and how that sound is projected which determined how directional sound was. Please correct me if my thinking is wrong.

[Strawb]

Strawb,

I hardly think I was taking a "pot shot" at Pio as you seem to think.

<snip>

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Cool it, buddy...I wasn't referring to you

You are a Pio buyer, who is rightly raising a problem on this forum. There are, however, others here that have bought other brands "waiting" to pounce on a Pio problem. Perhaps they are trying to validate their purchase??

It is important to raise all issues on this forum, because you are not only helping yourself, but also any current & future buyers.

[fattchoi1503559854]

You are a Pio buyer, who is rightly raising a problem on this forum. There are, however, others here that have bought other brands "waiting" to pounce on a Pio problem. Perhaps they are trying to validate their purchase??

It is important to raise all issues on this forum, because you are not only helping yourself, but also any current & future buyers. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hmmm...very strong accusation there. Then can't the same be said that as they are all Pioneer owners, naturally they will all praise it to death just to validate their purchase too. For example, even though Laryn's Pioneer is taken away, he still love it to bits...

Anyway, I don't own a Pioneer so what the heck am I posting in this thread for... :ph34r:

Cheers.

[detect]

Hmmm...very strong accusation there. Then can't the same be said that as they are all Pioneer owners, naturally they will all praise it to death just to validate their purchase too. For example, even though Laryn's Pioneer is taken away, he still love it to bits...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hahaha. I'm beginning to think everyone only raves about things that a) they have bought or b ) are not yet available.

The one exception being Angelo who raves about anything he has bought for a maximum of one month until he gets fed up and starts bagging that same equipment and buys something new!

Don't worry Angelo I'm with you, I'm exactly the same way. I'll love it to bits when it's new but once it doesn't impress me as much anymore I pick on all it's flaws which all of a sudden have become glaringly obvious!

[Quester]

Recently had a pioneer 505 installed and from the get go noticed a terrible buzzing projected from the front of the screen. Worse on the right side and very directional (can't hear it above or below the panel, but at normal viewing height smacks you right in the head).

As is the case with plasma buzz it is worse with high contrast scenes (ie. screen UI elements on, movie credits, etc)

I am glad I stmbled upon this post... I have a 435 and have a buzz (even after the repalcement!!!)

After much research I purchsed the PDP-435 three weeks ago and as soon as I turned the unit on I heard the buzz exactly as you have described above I contacted the store and they logged the issue with Pioneer directly - the response from Pioneer was quite good - a tech came in 3 days and to my dissapointment advised the noise was normal! I still persisted (I don't think it is acceptable after paying so much $ - its like buying a radio with a constant buzz) and just this week they came and replaced the unit with a brand new panel - but to my even more dissaopointment, the new panel also has buzz!

I am certainly not happy (as it is affecting the enjoyment of the unit even the PQ is fantastic) and planning to speak to the store again! The dilemma I have is after hours of comparing various brands, I felt the PQ of the Pioneer unit was the best and most natural, but alas they didn't worn about a buzz (it is interesting that on the Pioneer user manual they talk about possibly hearing the fan noice - even though these don't have a fan - but no where do they mention about a buzz!)

So far my experiences with plasmas has been most dissapointing and I am keen to know if Pioneer was able to do anything about your unit!