NEW NEC HD Plasma

[Champion_R]

The official feedback that i have got about HD and SD (From a un-named source Highly reliable tho) Is that the HD servie we are being privided is crap and the stations know its crap.

I have been told that the station are pumping more effort in to SD than HD as there is a 2 to1 amount of people using SD as well as analogue.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Which station is this? I know Nine HD in Melbourne (1920x1088) is a joke. It' only 12.0mbits with 384kbit DD audio. Nine HD in Brisbane (1920x1088) is 12.8mbits with 384kbit DD audio. Nine HD Sydney (1440x1088) is 12.3mbits with 448kbit DD audio. Nine HD in Adelaide (1440x1088) is 14mbits with 448kbit DD audio and Nine HD in Perth (1920x1088) is 14mbits with 448kbit DD audio.

As a guide Ten HD nationwide (1440x1088) is 12.8mbits with 256kbit AC3, Seven ED nationwide (720x576) is 9mbits with 384kbit DD audio and ABC HD nationwide (1440x1088) is 14mbits with 448kbit DD audio.

Seven looks like it has a much lower compression ratio but it has the most compression artifacts I ever seen. I'm not really convinced 1440x1088 reduces compression artifacts much over 1920x1088 either and I think this because Ten HD (1440) @ 12.8mbits breaks up far more than Nine HD (1920) @ 14mbits.

[Groover !]

Wow Champion_R Good point.

Now do you want to explain that in English ?

Angelo

[Groover !]

Just when you think it's safe .......

I thought I had finally made up my mind on which plasma .. a Hitachi 55" ... then I read these posts !

The NEC 50XR4W sounds like a real option, based on everyones experiances.

Does anyone have any comments or views between the two ?

The viewing distance will be just on 4 meters

Ian, is the NEC stand that bad ? what was the option Geoff at e-home offered ?

What about the speakers, has anyone heard them ? .....was considering getting the speakers and using them both for the centre channel only.

Anyone seen one in Brisbane ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ive got the 50inch Nec (plasma that is ) and I really do like it.

Though I will say that as with most 50inch Plasmas Ive seen motion jidderness takes a while to get used to. I see it really badly where as the wife and kids dont see it at all.

Ive seen the Hitachi 55 next to the Nec at HN Marion and there is really only one thing that the Hitachi is better at and that is its a 55inch and not a 50inch screen

Angelo

[Champion_R]

Wow Champion_R Good point.

Now do you want to explain that in English ?

Angelo

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Okay here's the simple version. Nine HD in Adelaide and Perth are easily the best HD channels in Australia. More megabits means less compression and that means less artifacts and more picture detail.

Why do Adelaide and Perth have a higher bitrate? That's because we don't have a crappy Nine Guide channel. Nine Perth and Adelaide have a proper EPG (The Perth one is 4 days, I don't know about Adelaide's) so the bandwidth that Nine Guide would be wasting is added to the HD channel.

Ten HD is overcompressed because they allocate too much bandwidth to SD and they have a stupid video guide channel. ABC HD is on par with Nine HD in Perth and Adelaide in terms of bitrate but they don't show any real HD content. If they did, it'd be easily the best HD channel for most Australians.

[ijd]

Wow Champion_R Good point.

Now do you want to explain that in English ?

Angelo

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Okay here's the simple version. Nine HD in Adelaide and Perth are easily the best HD channels in Australia. More megabits means less compression and that means less artifacts and more picture detail.

Why do Adelaide and Perth have a higher bitrate? That's because we don't have a crappy Nine Guide channel. Nine Perth and Adelaide have a proper EPG (The Perth one is 4 days, I don't know about Adelaide's) so the bandwidth that Nine Guide would be wasting is added to the HD channel.

Ten HD is overcompressed because they allocate too much bandwidth to SD and they have a stupid video guide channel. ABC HD is on par with Nine HD in Perth and Adelaide in terms of bitrate but they don't show any real HD content. If they did, it'd be easily the best HD channel for most Australians.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually, I would be quite happy* if the ABC specialised in top quality HD (which I'm already sure they will do early next year) and left Ten/4+3/SBS to f around with low quality programming (SBS excepted on this point) pushed out over 5 -10 pay-per-view SD streams on their single channel!

Under that circumstance (and assuming Nine lift their HD game just a little as well), the premium advertisers would either switch to Nine or pressure Ten and 4+3 to lift their game. The free market eventually sorts these things out - but legislation is a much quicker solution (if any politician has the balls - like Alston had - to forcibly push the envelope so that the public still has choices). One or two commercial stations would still be serving up B&W analogue if legislation hadn't forced them to move to colour, then stereo, then digital, then HD.

What most seem to forget in this analogue v. SD v. HD debate is that the whole of North America (not just the US), most of East Asia (not just Japan) and ALL of Europe will have access to predominantly HD programming (the percentage of newly-recorded material, not the percentage of actual repeat re-broadcasts) via satellite and/or terrestrial receivers within the next 12 months.

The electronics manufacturers are also pushing towards 4320p equipment over the next year or three - meaning that 576i will go the way of the Betamax, in not too many years at all, for the top end of the advertising, manufacturing and consumer markets.

[edit]Oooops! I nearly forgot:

If we also throw HD-DVD into the mix - with major studios releasing HD versions of all their movies to video outlets - then the HD pressure on 4+3 and Ten will be even greater.

[/edit]

576i equipment will, by then, be sold only in supermarkets and discount retailers for those who can't afford, or see the need for, widescreen HD in their homes.

<end rant/personal-opinion/forecast ... take ya pick>

As always, I welcome alternative views for readers to compare with mine!

Cheers,

Ian

* while waiting for Ten and 4+3 to come back to the real world - rather than the world as they alone would like to see it!

Edited October 17, 2004 by ijd

[Big AL]

Just when you think it's safe .......

I thought I had finally made up my mind on which plasma .. a Hitachi 55" ... then I read these posts !

The NEC 50XR4W sounds like a real option, based on everyones experiances.

Does anyone have any comments or views between the two ?

The viewing distance will be just on 4 meters

Ian, is the NEC stand that bad ? what was the option Geoff at e-home offered ?

What about the speakers, has anyone heard them ? .....was considering getting the speakers and using them both for the centre channel only.

Anyone seen one in Brisbane ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have an NEC 50" plasma 50XM4W so read my lips this is a great plasma excellent PQ and plenty of inputs including DVI. There are plenty of fine tuning adjustments available if needed. I have the desktop stand and I think that it is good looking and better than a lot of other stands that I have seen. The NEC stb that I got is not the best and have had problems which I am still waiting to sort with NEC.

Big AL

[ijd]

All,

I am so confident that this plasma (the NEC 42" XM3W) cannot be faulted in any way with any segment of the NineHD loop ... <snip>

[edit]

<original text deleted ... offer closed>

[/edit]

Edited October 18, 2004 by ijd

[glenncol]

All,

I am so confident that this plasma (the 42") cannot be faulted in any way with any segment of the NineHD loop that I am willing to make an offer to one lucky Brisbane (or interstate) resident to act on behalf of the whole forum:

If you are prepared to truck your Sony KVHR36, or Fujitsu or Hitachi 42"+ plasma, or Toshiba 63cm+ LCD over to my place (New Farm) for a comparative audition with my setup AND report your honest opinion on this forum afterwards for the benefit of those who think we have been smoking something - whether your opinion be favourable or unfavourable - then you will be very welcome to do so.

PM me if you are interested. I will pick just one winner* from requests received. Entries will close when (if) I receive what I consider* to be enough* valid* requests to choose from.

I'm making this offer only because I would be equally interested in the results of such a controlled shootout!!

Regards,

Ian

* My decision will be final on the interpretation of any/all of these words. No debate will be entered into on the merits or otherwise of this offer. The offer may be withdrawn at any time for any reason if I feel it necessary for my own protection.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Do we have some doubters of the NEC faith?

[jewfish]

Glenncol, I'm interested in the Charcol model 42XM3, is there any reason spec wise I should go for the 42XR3 ?

If not, I'll pull the trigger this week.

Rob.

[glenncol]

Glenncol,  I'm interested in the Charcol model 42XM3, is there any reason spec wise I should go for the 42XR3 ?

If not, I'll pull the trigger this week.

Rob.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No the Specs are the same there is a differnce in the menu and the remote due to the charcol model being a commercial.

[Groover !]

Glenncol,  I'm interested in the Charcol model 42XM3, is there any reason spec wise I should go for the 42XR3 ?

If not, I'll pull the trigger this week.

Rob.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No the Specs are the same there is a differnce in the menu and the remote due to the charcol model being a commercial.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sorry to be pain here, but Glen would you not say the silver model be better as it has 2 more features ?

Angelo

[Groover !]

All,

I am so confident that this plasma (the NEC 42" XM3W) cannot be faulted in any way with any segment of the NineHD loop that I am willing to make an offer to one lucky Brisbane (or interstate) resident to act on behalf of the whole forum:

If you are prepared to truck your Sony KVHR36, or Fujitsu or Hitachi 42"+ plasma, or Toshiba 63cm+ LCD to and from my place (New Farm) for a comparative audition with my setup AND report your honest opinion on this forum afterwards for the benefit of those who think we have been smoking something - whether your opinion be favourable or unfavourable - then you will be very welcome to do so.

PM me if you are interested. I will pick just one winner* from requests received. Entries will close when/if I receive what I consider* to be enough* valid* requests to choose from.

I'm making this offer only because I would be equally interested in the results of such a controlled shootout!!

Regards,

Ian

* My decision will be final on the interpretation of any/all of these words. No debate will be entered into on the merits or otherwise of this offer or any aspect of the selection. The offer may be withdrawn at any time for any reason if I feel it necessary for my own protection.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ian if I didnt know any better , Id say your starting to sound a bit like DAFFY DUCK !!!

Angelo

[ijd]

Ian if I didnt know any better , Id say your starting to sound a bit like DAFFY DUCK !!!

Angelo

Actually, a couple of friends have now seen my panel and asked how it compares with the mentioned 'contenders' - since I had previously suggested those as the best of type (CRT, PDP and LCD) for them to look at.

Now I'm inquisitive also on how the XM3 stacks up for the purpose of future recommendations, if a friend (or newbie to the forum) finds a good deal on one of the contenders. Since I know how each contender performs when driven by good RF, STB and interconnects - and the only place I know I can set up a valid comparison is at home! - I decided to risk the inevitable flames and tyre-kickers by making a very specific offer that might also benefit someone considering a swap or upgrade to the NEC. Then we both win by finding out for sure how they compare!

BTW, how did you find your old HR36's performance with the Loop?

I'm sure Daffy would be equally devious, so thanks for the compliment!

Cheers,

Ian

[ijd]

The blacks are very good, there is a control which allows deep or light blacks.

Hey Angelo,

I just noticed this in one of your earlier posts. Does the 42" have this option and, if so, which one is it?

My only issue with the 42XM3W so far is that I was expecting deeper 'below black' performance with the THX Optimiser from my new Pioneer 676A player ie. expected the 'Brightness' test to look exactly like the logo drop-shadow on the sample in the intro to the test. Any other comments?

Ta,

Ian

[Groover !]

The blacks are very good, there is a control which allows deep or light blacks.

Hey Angelo,

I just noticed this in one of your earlier posts. Does the 42" have this option and, if so, which one is it?

My only issue with the 42XM3W so far is that I was expecting deeper 'below black' performance with the THX Optimiser from my new Pioneer 676A player ie. expected the 'Brightness' test to look exactly like the logo drop-shadow on the sample in the intro to the test. Any other comments?

Ta,

Ian

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

GO under menu, , setup, dvi setup and push menu and there it is.

Angelo

[ijd]

GO under menu, , setup, dvi setup and push menu and there it is.

Angelo

Thanks mate - also for reminding me to do the DVI setup! Forgot to read that section.

[Downunder1503559766]

Just when you think it's safe .......

I thought I had finally made up my mind on which plasma .. a Hitachi 55" ... then I read these posts !

The NEC 50XR4W sounds like a real option, based on everyones experiances.

Does anyone have any comments or views between the two ?

The viewing distance will be just on 4 meters

Ian, is the NEC stand that bad ? what was the option Geoff at e-home offered ?

What about the speakers, has anyone heard them ? .....was considering getting the speakers and using them both for the centre channel only.

Anyone seen one in Brisbane ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ive got the 50inch Nec (plasma that is ) and I really do like it.

Though I will say that as with most 50inch Plasmas Ive seen motion jidderness takes a while to get used to. I see it really badly where as the wife and kids dont see it at all.

Ive seen the Hitachi 55 next to the Nec at HN Marion and there is really only one thing that the Hitachi is better at and that is its a 55inch and not a 50inch screen

Angelo

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Angelo,

Now that surprises me that the Hitachi would have been as good as the NEC, as I would have thought the increase in colours/greyscales would have reduced the artifacts and jidder in the NEC over the Hitachi ! ( please don't confuse this comment with any real knowledge ! )

Does the NEC still suffer from face blurring etc. during sport type action, or is that more of a signal compression issue ?

Trolled the usual suspects in Brisbane over the weekend, but could not find an NEC, where is Marion ?

Ian,

Good point thankyou re-the speaker capacity, as I will be attaching them to a Yam RXV2400, it would be of concern !!

Thankyou for your feedback

[Downunder1503559766]

Just when you think it's safe .......

I thought I had finally made up my mind on which plasma .. a Hitachi 55" ... then I read these posts !

The NEC 50XR4W sounds like a real option, based on everyones experiances.

Does anyone have any comments or views between the two ?

The viewing distance will be just on 4 meters

Ian, is the NEC stand that bad ? what was the option Geoff at e-home offered ?

What about the speakers, has anyone heard them ? .....was considering getting the speakers and using them both for the centre channel only.

Anyone seen one in Brisbane ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have an NEC 50" plasma 50XM4W so read my lips this is a great plasma excellent PQ and plenty of inputs including DVI. There are plenty of fine tuning adjustments available if needed. I have the desktop stand and I think that it is good looking and better than a lot of other stands that I have seen. The NEC stb that I got is not the best and have had problems which I am still waiting to sort with NEC.

Big AL

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Big Al,

Did you consider the Hitachi 55 in your evaluation ? if so what swung it the NEC way (other than price) ?

Regards

[glenncol]

Glenncol,  I'm interested in the Charcol model 42XM3, is there any reason spec wise I should go for the 42XR3 ?

If not, I'll pull the trigger this week.

Rob.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No the Specs are the same there is a differnce in the menu and the remote due to the charcol model being a commercial.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sorry to be pain here, but Glen would you not say the silver model be better as it has 2 more features ?

Angelo

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Really dont know if the two missing features play a big part in the panel performance there seems to be only one menu option missing and the remote is different.

[Steffche]

As long as it looks better than the Philips....thats my main concern at the moment. I would hate to have spent an extra $1000 for nothing!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Dude

The NEC is like a BMW 540 Sport compared to the Holden Barina Philips really!!

The extra $ is well worth spent with out a doubt

For myself i have seen all HD plasma's and with in reason $ is not a problem and the NEC is the go all the way.

I had the unfortunate pleasure of seeing another Viera tonight at power House Preston and there is no way in this world i would take one home it was set up with the Teac HD box running via DVI and it really didnt look good at all

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't think the Viera has DVI input.... I think there's a bit of hot air blowing around here. I have heard this type of commentary going around before, and upon inspection it proves to be just that...HOT AIR!!!

I had a look at a Fujitsu 42" and compared it with teh Viera....I'd say the viera had better blacks....and both suffered from pixelation on skin tones...so I think a bit more honesty and less boasting needs to be had around here!

[glenncol]

As long as it looks better than the Philips....thats my main concern at the moment. I would hate to have spent an extra $1000 for nothing!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Dude

The NEC is like a BMW 540 Sport compared to the Holden Barina Philips really!!

The extra $ is well worth spent with out a doubt

For myself i have seen all HD plasma's and with in reason $ is not a problem and the NEC is the go all the way.

I had the unfortunate pleasure of seeing another Viera tonight at power House Preston and there is no way in this world i would take one home it was set up with the Teac HD box running via DVI and it really didnt look good at all

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't think the Viera has DVI input.... I think there's a bit of hot air blowing around here. I have heard this type of commentary going around before, and upon inspection it proves to be just that...HOT AIR!!!

I had a look at a Fujitsu 42" and compared it with teh Viera....I'd say the viera had better blacks....and both suffered from pixelation on skin tones...so I think a bit more honesty and less boasting needs to be had around here!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What inparticular are you refering to?

[Steffche]

The bit about "I would never take one of those home..... I find it hard to believe the Viera could be that bad.

[ijd]

* I'll take a pic of the unit in place and post a link sometime today for you.

Here is the promised photo of the 42" in action at home.

Note: Don't judge the PQ from this quick'n'nasty 640x480 .jpg snap of the newsreader!

[glenncol]

The bit about "I would never take one of those home.....  I find it hard to believe the Viera could be that bad.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Pal

That was my opinion you dont like stiff .

I have done alot of auditioning of plasmas over the last few months and IMHO i would not take a Viera home due to solarisation , Pixelisation ,not DVI input that fact that the stand is way over priced and the fact that it only carries a 12 month warranty and for less money we have got the best plasma on the market bar none.

People are on here to give and read opinions and that my friend is my opinion i am sorry if it doesn’t match yours but after all it is MINE!!

Do me a hugh favour and audition the NEC and pana and tell me what you would take home and what you wouldn’t .

I assume you own a Viera with your comments.

[ijd]

I don't think the Viera has DVI input....  I think there's a bit of hot air blowing around here. I have heard this type of commentary going around before, and upon inspection it proves to be just that...HOT AIR!!!

Then buy the 'Norwegian Blue' (ie. Viera)!! If it looks better to you, then isn't it what you should be buying? Sheeesh!!!

The Viera doesn't have DVI (Glen probably saw it via XGA?) - otherwise I might have hastily bought it about 10 days ago on looks alone! (though check back through my posts to see my PQ comments on the Viera at the time - before I had even heard about the NEC)!

Now that I have seen the NEC properly set up (at home!) - thanks entirely to my knowledge of Glenncol and Angelo on this forum over the past 6 months* - there is absolutely no way that I would now recommend a Viera to anybody on the basis of PQ!

I would suggest that you start a Norwegian Blue thread - where you can all discuss how to solve the Viera's PQ issues among yourselves. Oh ... and btw ... good luck with trying to obtain any useful help from Panasonic!

The usual 2i cents,

Ian

* FWIW ... it has indeed taken me 6 months to decide on an upgrade from a 76cm LG POS - mainly because of a very tight budget and a number of issues with each possible upgrade alternative. The NEC cost me double my budget and I don't regret one single cent of the extra money - its performance brings tears to my eyes every time I turn it on!

I wouldn't say it was better than the Fujitsu 42" - but it sure thumps everything else, including the Pioneer, and costs a heck of a lot less than these!

Edited October 18, 2004 by ijd