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Grammaton Cleric

Using Sony KVHR36M31 With ATI HDTV Adapter

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Just some useful info for Home Theater PC Users

I have recently upgraded my Television from a Panasonic TX-76PW200A

76cm to a Sony KVHR36M31 86cm Widescreen TV.

The change was prompted by the fact that i own a Home Theatre PC which has a ATI Radeon 9800 Pro with the ATI HDTV Component Adapter plus a modified Microsoft XBOX with a HDTV Component Cable.

The problem was that the Panasonic was incompatible with both adapters as it displays 1080i at 50Hz and not the US Standard of 1080i at 60Hz which both the ATI and XBOX adapters use.

I did manage to get the Panasonic Running at 1080i by using PowerStrip on my HTPC but not without struggle. Don't get me wrong the Panasonic is a great Television but the Sony KVHR36M31 is capable of running 1080i at 50Hz & 60Hz without the need for special software and headache!

It was a big decision to go for the Sony after being such an avid fan of Panasonic and would recommend the TX-76PW200A to anyone but the Sony just had more functionality for what i needed.

Just some information for anyone wanting to set-up a Home Theatre PC.

Cheers

Grammaton Cleric

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Did you get the component dongle to work at 1080i 50Hz ?

And if so how?

Regards,

Owen

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Hi Grammaton Cleric,

Are you running component or RGBHV out of the back of the ATI..??

I have the same TV with a Vision Plus and 9800xxx using a DVI to RGB adapter plug and 5 runs of cable into the HD2 connectors on back of the TV.

I use Powerstrip to configure the 2nd monitor (TV) to 1280 x 720.

I beleive there are some over scan issues with the TV.

cheers

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I want to know if that ATI component adapter works also. I have a 9800pro and was trying to see where you get the adapters from. Grammaton Cleric, where did you get yours from?

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Are you running component or RGBHV out of the back of the ATI..??

I have the same TV with a Vision Plus and 9800xxx using a DVI to RGB adapter plug and 5 runs of cable into the HD2 connectors on back of the TV.

I use Powerstrip to configure the 2nd monitor (TV) to 1280 x 720.

I beleive there are some over scan issues with the TV.

Hey There

I'm running the ATI DVI to RGB Adapter which has the standard 3 cables running out of it.

Shown Here - http://www.videocapturecard.com/hdtvaiwr8500.html

To avoid overscan you need to set your resolution a fraction lower.

e.g-

720p - 1152 x 648

1080i - 1776 x 1000

That should fix the overscan problem.

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I want to know if that ATI component adapter works also. I have a 9800pro and was trying to see where you get the adapters from. Grammaton Cleric, where did you get yours from?

The adapter is available at -

http://www.videocapturecard.com/ati.html

Mine took about 2-3 Weeks to arrive from the USA.

But remember that it will only work without extra stoftware asisstance if your TV is capable of running 720p or 1080i at 60Hz.

Otherwise you might need to use PowerStrip -

http://entechtaiwan.net/util/ps.shtm

Cheers

Patrick

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wow thats about $50, is there anyway to get it here is australia. I have the KVHR36M31 so that will do 1080i at 60Hz. This option seems better because i have trouble fiddling with powerstip and as yet haven't got 1080i working!

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I have a 9600XT outputting component to a KVEH36 without the ATI component adapter or powerstrip and its dead simple to set up and works like a charm.

This is old info from avsforums but I'll repeat it anyway.

This marvellous tool http://luzi.vip.sina.com/jd/ATICVPatch.zip by LUZI from Beijing will patch your registry (in XP) and bring up a YPrPb panel in the ATI control panel. I assume it tells XP that you have the dongle plugged in when you don't.

You may then set up custom resolutions in the Advanced tab to get rid of overscan. None of the extra features of Powerstrip but much simpler if you don't need them.

I have tested this on Catalyst 4.7 and 4.8 but only at 60Hz, I haven't tried to get 50Hz working yet as it works so brilliantly at 60Hz :blink:

The only downside is no bios info on bootup - you need a second monitor or transcoder for that.

If you are lucky enought to have a KVHR model you don't need this patch or the dongle as you can run RGBVH staight into those sets.

hope this helps someone.

cheers

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I have a 9600XT outputting component to a KVEH36 without the ATI component adapter or powerstrip and its dead simple to set up and works like a charm.

Hey Nab

The 9600XT does not have component out built in to the Graphics Card; How are you connecting it to the Television?

What Port are you using on the Graphics Card?

Are you using a 3rd Party Dongle or Adapter?

Cheers

Patrick

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I believe Nab is doing the same as me on my 9600XT...

The avsfourms thread is here - HOWTO: YPrPb component output on any Radeon for under $5

I got a 15 pin plug from Dick Smiths and 3 RCA sockets and wired up the adapter as per the instructions in the above thread, plugged that into the DVI-VGA adapter supplied with the card and then into the DVI output on the card. Then into a high quality component cable straight into the back of my Toshiba 57VW9UA. I applied the patch mentioned in Nab's post to add the registry keys to make the Cataylst drivers assume the HDTV adapter/dongle is present.

Just like Nab says, dead simple and works brilliantly...also cheap ! I also haven't (yet) bothered with Powerstrip...

Stewart.

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http://www.blackboxoz.com.au/products/prod...e_Group_Id=3428

Don't mess around with component if you've got the above capability in your HD display!

Quality is no where as good as RGBHV direct breakout from a VGA socket in computer. You attach RCA adaptors to the BNC's in the above calbing example.

I know I have tried it (ATI proper dongle) ..it works really well but quality not as good as RGBHV. (tad under)

Also scroll down to bottom (after the projectors) there are some handy cables that will work with the RAdeon card for component using the trick phantom software patch mentioned in this thread.

http://www.neversoft.com.au/video_projectors.htm

Regards

DA

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I also have 1080i 50Hz working with a modified VGA cable from a dead PC monitor, but I have to disconnect the cable before booting the PC and then reconnect the cable or I don’t get Component output.

I am not the only one with this problem, has anyone found a work around for this?

Are people aware that 60Hz is no good for PAL 50Hz video.

You will get unavoidable motion stutter.

Owen

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Grammaton Cleric

Why are you bothering with component when you have the KVHR? See digitaladvisor's last post.

I have only been able to get component out of the DVI port with DVI to VGA adapter and a VGA to component cable. No dongle required if you use the registry patch utility.

Be aware the the thread at AVS forums that sstorra mentioned is mostly about Win98. You need to jump to around page 12 for the XP stuff.

Owen

I have to have a monitor attached to the vga port in order for component to be enabled on the DVI port when booting. I get around that by plugging in a dummy VGA plug which is just a 15pin plug with 3 x 75ohm resistors on the the R G and B pins.

I wish there was some way to see the bios bootup screens on the TV though.

Would you care to share your PAL powerstrip settings, I am having some stutter issues with the DVICO card but always thought it was software related. Perhaps it is 60Hz related?

nab

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Why are you bothering with component when you have the KVHR? See digitaladvisor's last post.

I have only been able to get component out of the DVI port with DVI to VGA adapter and a VGA to component cable. No dongle required if you use the registry patch utility.

I'm bothering with component and the DVI to YPrPb Dongle from ATI is because of ease of use and not having to Stuff Around with Adapters upon Adapters, Registry Hacks and having to start my computer with a Dummy VGA Cable.

I plug the ATI dongle in and it works!

Plus the reason i also using the ATI Component Adapter is as i said in my first post I did have the Panasonic TX-76PW200A which did not have RGBHV Input.

But i will look at the Cable that digitaladvisor mentioned; interesting to see if there is a quality difference.

Cheers Guys

Patrick

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I use a VGA to RGBHV for my HTPC and it works fine. Currently outputting at 1216x684 and that seems to work fine. Not as clear as I'd like, but hey, it's a TV.

Anyone managed to get 1080i on this TV (KVHR36M31) using VGA to RGBHV.... if so, what are the settings?

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Nab,

Thanks for the tip about plugging a monitor or dummy into the VGA port. It works perfectly and solves my boot problem.

Setting up Powerstrip for 1080I 50Hz is very simple.

I start by applying the predefined resolution for 1920x1080i (HDTV Standard) 60Hz.

Then I go to the “Advanced timing options” page and change refresh rate from 30 to 25Hz and apply. This should give you standard 1080i 50Hz timing with a scan rate of 28.125KHz, refresh rate of 25.000Hz and a pixel clock of 75.600MHz,

These overall timings should be always maintained to keep within standards and should work for any Australian 1080i HD TV.

You will now probably need to adjust screen position and size using the arrows provided, but BEFORE you adjust anything you need to tick the “Lock scan frequencies” box to prevent the overall timings from altering from standard during size and position adjustments.

Don’t expect to be able to remove all overscan using the size controls in Powerstrip as it is not possible to do so.

You will probably find that a resolution of 1776x1000 works better for minimal overscan.. It can be setup the same way as 1920x1080 and will still use the same overall 1080i timing of 28.125KHz Horizontal and 25.000 Hz refresh.

I have modified my Hitachi 145cm rear projector to allow 1920x1080 with no overscan at standard timing.

Once you have 50Hz up and running, 50Hz video should play smoothly, but 60Hz video will not.

I have not yet found a way to easily switch between 1920x1080 50Hz and 1920x1080 60Hz and back, as Powerstip seems to allow only one timing setup for each resolution.

The work around I have found is to use a different resolution for 60Hz timing .

I only ever need 60Hz to play 30/60Hz US HD material.

Cop Ya Later :blink:

Owen

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As far as I am aware, the component adaptor method of transcoding from VGA to component was very difficult to get working in 50Hz timings. But I think things have changed with the newer versions of PowerStrip and Catalyst. It was just EASY to get working this time around.

EVERYONE HERE SHOULD be AWARE: ALL RADEONS CAN TRANSCODE TO COMPONENT internally. NOW we have RESOLVED 50HZ there is NOTHING stopping anyone getting a HTPC working on most HD displays with component only inputs.

As well be aware that either a DVI out or VGA out MAKES aboslutely no difference in transcoding to component. BOTH are VGA analog signals. The DVI out with dongle only connects to the DVI's DVI-A segment which is really VGA signal out in different format pin outs.

BOTH newer versions (Catalyst and Powerstrip) are NOW superior in handling interlaced HD modes now. With that in mind if you had difficulty with 1080i via VGA to RGBHV/VGa inputs you should revisit both newer versions of PowerStrip and Catalyst drivers.

Things change dramtically in computers from week to week. What could be thought once problematic one week becomes easy the next.

Regards

DA

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Owen,

Would you mind running through the process of adjusting your set for minimal 1920x1080 res overscan? was it just a matter of changing the width/height settings in the service menu? then any fine adjustments in powerstrip?

A crude way around the powerstrip multiple timings at the same res could be to:

Have 2 pstrip.ini files (one for each timing, ie pstrip50hz.ini and pstrip60hz.ini). Ive noticed that even when you quit powerstrip it allows the resolution it was last in to remain - which may allow this to work..

So you could use one of the windows tools to force apps to close.

then make a batch file to:

1. quit powerstrip

2. copy your pstrip50hz.ini to pstrip.ini

3. launch pstrip.exe

and another batch file to do the same but with the pstrip60hz.ini

I recall one of the htpc apps can tell the difference between a PAL and NTSC disc and perform actions (might be anydvd) - you could have it run one of those pstrip batch files prior to loading ZP and return to a 'normal' res/refresh afterwards (I find 60hz to be much better on the toshi for desktop)..

The only problem I can see is that powerstrip somtimes knows when it wasnt quit properly and may come up with the 'safe' option when it starts..

Cheers,

Bitey

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So people have the radeon's working via component at 1080i and 50hz??

If so, does anyone want to buy a slightly used transcoder? :-)

PS: I can see the bios screens using a transcoder... well most of them - apart from my raid or ethernet controller sub-bios screens..

Cheers,

Bitey

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Why are you bothering with component when you have the KVHR? See digitaladvisor's last post.

I have only been able to get component out of the DVI port with DVI to VGA adapter and a VGA to component cable. No dongle required if you use the registry patch utility.

I'm bothering with component and the DVI to YPrPb Dongle from ATI is because of ease of use and not having to Stuff Around with Adapters upon Adapters, Registry Hacks and having to start my computer with a Dummy VGA Cable.

I plug the ATI dongle in and it works!

Plus the reason i also using the ATI Component Adapter is as i said in my first post I did have the Panasonic TX-76PW200A which did not have RGBHV Input.

But i will look at the Cable that digitaladvisor mentioned; interesting to see if there is a quality difference.

Cheers Guys

Patrick

I'm surprised at this comment as well. I've had a Sony KVHR for some time and haven't really bothered trying HTPC on it since my HTPC feeds my Toshiba in a different location. However, a few weeks back when I took delivery of my new highly specced Dell 9100 laptop with 128m Radeon Mobility 9700, I thought I'd try using it as an HTPC just for fun. Once the laptop was configured with the usual HTPC software, Powerstrip,Zoomplayer,FFDshow, etc., I hooked it up via the VGA-RGBHV I already had for when I used my Momitsu on this TV. Sure enough it fired up with just fine on the Sony with a selection of standard Powerstrip resolution. This was probably my most straightforward HTPC - TV setup ever, it literally took a couple of minutes...

Hey DA, I'm going to try my spare ATI dongle with my Toshiba and see what happens with 50hz 1080i. Thanks for the info, I wasn't across it previously :blink: .

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I'm surprised at this comment as well. I've had a Sony KVHR for some time and haven't really bothered trying HTPC on it since my HTPC feeds my Toshiba in a different location. However, a few weeks back when I took delivery of my new highly specced Dell 9100 laptop with 128m Radeon Mobility 9700, I thought I'd try using it as an HTPC just for fun. Once the laptop was configured with the usual HTPC software, Powerstrip,Zoomplayer,FFDshow, etc., I hooked it up via the VGA-RGBHV I already had for when I used my Momitsu on this TV. Sure enough it fired up with just fine on the Sony with a selection of standard Powerstrip resolution. This was probably my most straightforward HTPC - TV setup ever, it literally took a couple of minutes...

Hey DA, I'm going to try my spare ATI dongle with my Toshiba and see what happens with 50hz 1080i. Thanks for the info, I wasn't across it previously :blink: .

I posted this information on the Forum to help other beginner HTPC Users.

Most people who have replied have moaned about why am i bothering with the ATI Dongle.

Maybe if people offered advice in a polite way, instead of "Why are you bothering with that" or "Don't do it that way, do it this".

We are not all expert users who want to load extra software or plug and unplug cables.

I just wanted to know that i have had no problems with My RADEON Card and the ATI Dongle since i upgraded my TV.

The ATI Dongle offers ease of use, Plug it in and it works. No Powerstrip, No Registry Cracks.

Perfect Picture at 720p and 1080i.

Its an excellent option for a Beginner (Like Me).

Patrick

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I have a HTPC with an ATI 9600XT card. Would the DVI to YPrPb connector give a better picture on my analog TV (which has YPrPb connectors for the DVD player) than the S-Video output on the 9600?

Thanks

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Bitey,

Forget about trying to get no overscan at 1920x1080.

If you adjust picture size in the service menu to remove overscan at that res you will probably wind up with scan line overlap, and that is not good.

Use 1776x1000 and adjust size as best you can in Powerstrip.

If you feel the need, you can then make minor size adjustments in the service menu, but be aware that you may stuff up the convergance and possibly geometry when you do this.

You will not notice any loss of resolution using 1776x1000, so dont worry.

You can certainly try correcting overscan by adjusting picture size in the TV service menu and see how well it works for you.

I corrected overscan by moved the CRT’s 75mm closer to the mirror on my Hitachi.

This reduced picture size so much that it UNDERSCANED at 1920x1080.

I then adjusted the size up with a combination of Powerstrip and service menu so I am now using nearly 10% more of the CRT surface area and get all 1920x1080 on screen with no overscan.

Cop Ya Later,

Owen

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I have a HTPC with an ATI 9600XT card. Would the DVI to YPrPb connector give a better picture on my analog TV (which has YPrPb connectors for the DVD player) than the S-Video output on the 9600?

Thanks

If you have a HD TV, definitely yes.

If you have an SD TV, maybe or maybe not.

I am not sure that a Radeon can output 576i

Owen

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