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10 hours ago, metal beat said:

 

 

You will find in the majority of cases comparing like vintage DD tables and belt drive tables that the bass delivery will be different - the DD is faster better defined, the belt drive a little more luxurious perhaps a little softer. It's the overall package that will dictate what sounds better - and vintage imo will do it for a cheaper price if you choose the right combo's. 

 

 

...dont forget the quality of the bearing..

having now fitted 2 mag lev upgrades to my Sondek's bearings including a third party affair consisting of a new bearing housing and inner platter the noise floor drop is very significant...

So much so that last night when listening was hard to tell if the cart was playing the end of a record.....bit spooky really...  

 

TT reproduction starts and ends at the bearing IMO....

 

Tase

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My refurbished Commonwealth 12C is custom rock maple plinth/stand and Schroder CB tonearm. New cartridge to come. Golden Age Audio Reference Phono 

Been a long time since I posted any new pics in this amazing thread.   After a complete ground up rebuild by SNA maestro @Shark, including an engineering masterpiece of a plinth with built-i

My Garrad 401 project is almost done . Brand new in box garrad 401 + custome made plattter/mat with sme 3012 & fr 64 fx tonearm . Some photos show how it is . Plinth is in final stage still need t

thoughts on idler drive, hmm,  so exactly why are Garrards 301/401, Lenco, Thorens TD 124 and especially the highly desirable and expensive EMT so highly regarded?

 

a  newcomer

 

http://thomas-schick.com/en/produkte?cat=plattenspieler

 

another newcomer and a case in their defence

 

https://oswaldsmillaudio.com/turntable

 

regards Ian

 

 

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1 hour ago, Ian McP said:

thoughts on idler drive, hmm,  so exactly why are Garrards 301/401, Lenco, Thorens TD 124 and especially the highly desirable and expensive EMT so highly regarded?

 

a  newcomer

 

http://thomas-schick.com/en/produkte?cat=plattenspieler

 

another newcomer and a case in their defence

 

https://oswaldsmillaudio.com/turntable

 

regards Ian

 

 

A quick look at the three drive systems:

 

A good belt drive is relatively easy to build, resulting in pretty good performance for a modest outlay. The downside is that belt drives inevitably have inconsistent speed and usually have low torque, resulting in considerable speed variation due to stylus drag. You can overcome these limitations to some degree by multiple motors, massive platters, etc, but the costs become huge. I have a belt drive turntable, a Once Analog, which is relatively light at about 20kg, and, with various minor tweaks, I have found it to be among the best turntables I've heard, and relatively inexpensive compared to the really big guns (but still $7000+ without arm).

 

Direct drive has very low motor speeds, which exacerbate many of the noise transfer problems already inherent in connecting the motor directly to the platter. Overcoming these problems is very difficult and expensive. The simpler solutions include massive plinths, which allow the better cheap Japanese direct drive turntables of say the 1970s to sound remarkably good, but nowhere near as good as the best belt drive solutions. Massive decoupled direct drive turntables such as the Continuum come at tremendous cost, and do provide exceptional performance, but few companies have persevered this arduous route.

 

Idler drives offer an entirely different, and mechanically simple, approach. They allow high speed motors (like belt drives do), but allow a large proportion of the torque, generated by the motor, to be transferred to the platter, virtually eliminating stylus drag, without (if well-enough engineered) transferring the noise of the motor (like you find with direct drives). As a result, many of the inherent problems of direct drive and belt drive are avoided in the idler drive approach. If you take an idler drive mechanism, ensure that each part of the mechanism is optimised for speed consistency and minimal noise, then you have (theoretically) a near perfect drive mechanism. It then becomes a matter of sinking it into the most inert massive plinth possible to eliminate every other source of noise from being picked up by the stylus. The very best reengineered Lenco L75 turntables, in massive plinths, are regarded by some vinyl gurus as the very best turntables available at ANY price, convincingly better than turntables costing upwards of $200,000. I've never had the pleasure of listening to one. 

Edited by Warren M.
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Very well written, Warren. I'm expecting delivery of a re-engineered Lenco in a massive plinth in the next fortnight.

Pictures definitely required when setup for a show and tell.


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3 hours ago, Warren M. said:

A quick look at the three drive systems:

 

A good belt drive is relatively easy to build, resulting in pretty good performance for a modest outlay. The downside is that belt drives inevitably have inconsistent speed and usually have low torque, resulting in considerable speed variation due to stylus drag. You can overcome these limitations to some degree by multiple motors, massive platters, etc, but the costs become huge. I have a belt drive turntable, a Once Analog, which is relatively light at about 20kg, and, with various minor tweaks, I have found it to be among the best turntables I've heard, and relatively inexpensive compared to the really big guns (but still $7000+ without arm).

 

Direct drive has very low motor speeds, which exacerbate many of the noise transfer problems already inherent in connecting the motor directly to the platter. Overcoming these problems is very difficult and expensive. The simpler solutions include massive plinths, which allow the better cheap Japanese direct drive turntables of say the 1970s to sound remarkably good, but nowhere near as good as the best belt drive solutions. Massive decoupled direct drive turntables such as the Continuum come at tremendous cost, and do provide exceptional performance, but few companies have persevered this arduous route.

 

Idler drives offer an entirely different, and mechanically simple, approach. They allow high speed motors (like belt drives do), but allow a large proportion of the torque, generated by the motor, to be transferred to the platter, virtually eliminating stylus drag, without (if well-enough engineered) transferring the noise of the motor (like you find with direct drives). As a result, many of the inherent problems of direct drive and belt drive are avoided in the idler drive approach. If you take an idler drive mechanism, ensure that each part of the mechanism is optimised for speed consistency and minimal noise, then you have (theoretically) a near perfect drive mechanism. It then becomes a matter of sinking it into the most inert massive plinth possible to eliminate every other source of noise from being picked up by the stylus. The very best reengineered Lenco L75 turntables, in massive plinths, are regarded by some vinyl gurus as the very best turntables available at ANY price, convincingly better than turntables costing upwards of $200,000. I've never had the pleasure of listening to one. 

Continuum turntable are belt drive. What turntable costs $200k other that that German monstrosity.

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1 hour ago, guru said:

Continuum turntable are belt drive. What turntable costs $200k other that that German monstrosity.

 

I accept your greater knowledge re the Continuum offerings

 

There are a few tunrtables above $200K: - the Goldmund Reference and Transrotor Argos are both over US$200K, but there are a dozen or more which would cost well over AU$200K to bring in, such as the Clearaudio Statement and the La Platine Magnum

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40 minutes ago, Citroen said:

US$349,000 Acoustical Systems Apolyt turntable

 

01-apolyt-turntable.jpg?itok=HWY2yFaq

embed-apolyt-turntable.jpg

UnF'ingBlievable (fugly!  :( ).  DD?  Idler?  Belt?

 

Andy

 

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33 minutes ago, mwhouston said:

I wonder how it compares with my new under $1K Rega RP3? Lol.

 

C'mon, Mark.  :P

 

I know there are a few here who would need a DBT with 100 people present before they could accept that it does sound better ... but I'm happy to believe it does ... based on its price alone.

 

Andy

 

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1 minute ago, andyr said:

 

C'mon, Mark.  :P

 

I know there are a few here who would need a DBT with 100 people present before they could accept that it does sound better ... but I'm happy to believe it does ... based on its price alone.

 

Andy

 

Nah, I reckon they'd be about the same (as long as they are switched off and in another room).

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1 minute ago, Warren M. said:

Nah, I reckon they'd be about the same (as long as they are switched off and in another room).

 

Haha - yes, good one, Warren!  :thumb:

 

Andy

 

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11 minutes ago, andyr said:

UnF'ingBlievable (fugly!  :( ).  DD?  Idler?  Belt?

 

Andy

 

 "drive: unique balanced shaft transmission drive with dynamic torque management"

Belt?

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3 hours ago, Kensell21 said:


Pictures definitely required when setup for a show and tell.


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Yeah, I'll do so when I have it up and running.

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9 minutes ago, Citroen said:

 "drive: unique balanced shaft transmission drive with dynamic torque management"

Belt?

 

Nah - shirley DD?

 

Andy

 

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20 minutes ago, andyr said:

UnF'ingBlievable (fugly!  :( ).  DD?  Idler?  Belt?

 

Andy

 

 

Yes Belt drive.  Its a very impressive turntable in person and you can see a lot of $$ has been spent in building it.    I saw it last year at the HK show.

The top layer of the platter is vinyl. :)

 

28180836294_2ff1b57480_h.jpg

 

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6 minutes ago, metal beat said:

 

Yes Belt drive.  Its a very impressive turntable in person and you can see a lot of $$ has been spent in building it.    I saw it last year at the HK show.

The top layer of the platter is vinyl. :)

 

28180836294_2ff1b57480_h.jpg

 

 

Thanks, Shane - and Cliff.

 

Andy

 

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51 minutes ago, Citroen said:

Capture.JPG

Ha ha! It's amazing that little, albeit solid, belt turns a 58kg platter! This one's definitely for the Bugatti owners!:P

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A bit strong @andyr the TTs you design and build are highly functional

There are no adornments frill or fringes.

many ppl would consider them ugly.

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5 minutes ago, djb said:

A bit strong @andyr the TTs you design and build are highly functional

There are no adornments frill or fringes.

many ppl would consider them ugly.

 

Meccano....:P

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29 minutes ago, djb said:

A bit strong @andyr the TTs you design and build are highly functional

There are no adornments frill or fringes.

many ppl would consider them ugly.

 

Sure, David!  ;)

 

But brass motor pods & spring bases instead of black ... I consider to be a 'frill'.  :D

 

23 minutes ago, Tasebass said:

 

Meccano....:P

 

But Meccano sounds good, Tase! :thumb:

 

Andy

 

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Today my daughter dragged me into IKEA 

Not my favourite place in its shopping design because once in you travel ONE WAY and you can't get out until you see the whole store 

 

Anyway as she went off into a buying frenzy I stopped and had a look at lamps specifically for the turntable 

 

Out of the 2 designs I shortlisted this one was best suited 

Item - IKEA - HARTE light @ $19.99 

Its not to bright and has a strip of lights that is better than a spot light 

 

Took a few photos - last one is with my room lights off 

image.jpeg

image.jpeg

image.jpeg

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40 minutes ago, mwhouston said:

Let's keep it in perspective, it only goes around and around. How hard can it be? 

Only experience with a REALLY good turntable would show you how hard it can be and if I answer honestly, a $13000 txt/ arm combination sounds great but a $60000 txt/ arm combination sounds a whole world better so maybe $200k pushes the boat out again.

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12 minutes ago, proftournesol said:

How on earth do you reach the platter and arm on that turntable? Perhaps a crane and a harness to winch you over the top?

The Apolyt is 128cm high. Unless you are a toddler, you should have no problems reaching the platter :-)

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On 4/12/2017 at 8:26 PM, metal beat said:

Technics SL-1000MK3D has arrived. Coupled with my EPC-P100C-MK4 cartridge, the combo is sounding superb. thanks @MarkT

 

 

 

33158490103_10b9615453_b.jpg

 

33841610001_cc7316eeed_b.jpg

 

33972383685_ac21522604_b.jpg

 

 

I'm a bit late to the party having only just read this post right now.  Congratulations Shane.  That is one awesome looking and extremely drool worthy piece of kit. :thumb:

 

I shall have to wrangle another visa and pay homage some time.

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On 4/13/2017 at 7:54 PM, metal beat said:

 

Thanks Chill.  It is amazing that two tables 35 years old sound so great but no more tables for me.

 

seriously thou, I have 6 bloody turntables and only physically enough room for 4 of them.  Pioneer PLX-1000 I am going to set up in daughters room.

 

but, Pioneer Exclusive P10 will probably need to be sold and go to good home that can enjoy this wonderful table.

 

cheers

 

LOL.  I looked into the tea leaves and I see a GT2000x in your future.  It may be a few years away, but you'll find room for it eventually.  ;)

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@andyr I haven't trimmed my TT mat to she off the gold sub platter bearing the way s o m e ppl have .

or is that an appropriate ergonomic adjustment 

like removing a tone arm lift making a damaged cart/stylus more likely

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2 minutes ago, djb said:

 

@andyr I haven't trimmed my TT mat to show off the gold sub platter bearing the way s o m e ppl have .

or is that an appropriate ergonomic adjustment 

 

 

I did that B4 I got the beautiful brass/ss inner platter, David. :)

 

Cutting the centre out of the mat (around where the label goes to) makes the TT sound better.  :thumb:

 

2 minutes ago, djb said:

 

like removing a tone arm lift making a damaged cart/stylus more likely

 

 

I don't get this part?

 

Andy

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10 hours ago, guru said:

Only experience with a REALLY good turntable would show you how hard it can be and if I answer honestly, a $13000 txt/ arm combination sounds great but a $60000 txt/ arm combination sounds a whole world better so maybe $200k pushes the boat out again.

 

Then again, the law of diminishing returns usually applies.  I wonder what the last $50k in that $350k table actually buys you :)

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2 hours ago, aussievintage said:

 

Then again, the law of diminishing returns usually applies.  I wonder what the last $50k in that $350k table actually buys you :)

Then you have to think cart to match? 

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14 hours ago, Citroen said:

They supply two people for three days to set it up

 

Is it true this guy first owned a JH Formula 4 and one day thought "how can I improve this"? 

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I have been umming and ahhing about what to do with my second SL-10... even contemplating selling it, although it's been refurbished by Chris Kimil and they're so user friendly so I decided to keep it. 

 

Strung it up today with a modest pair of Focal actives fed by a modest Lehmann Black Cube... surprisingly enjoyable. I wonder if the wife will notice if I wall mount it somewhere? 

 

 

L1070136.jpg

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