TerryO Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 (edited) Given the massive differences in prices of LP12's from older standard models that so many tend to upgrade right through to $40k specials, out of interest, how does a $40k LP12 turntable measure up against other similar priced high end turntables? Edited October 12, 2018 by TerryO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hugo_wilco Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 I had an Akurate level LP12 and my (now) Kuzma Ref2 TT beats it in every single way by a substantial amount it and cost me much less than the LP12 I had. Linn is extremly over priced for what you get. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audiome Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 LP12 is more to emotional thingee than sq I suppose. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter-C Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 2 hours ago, hugo_wilco said: I had an Akurate level LP12 and my (now) Kuzma Ref2 TT beats it in every single way by a substantial amount it and cost me much less than the LP12 I had. Linn is extremly over priced for what you get. Agree, Linn is overpriced, but an Akurate level LP12 is a little over $11k all-up, table, arm and cart. A Kuzma Ref2 with Stogi arm is what $19k ? (with no cart). It should be better. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blakey72 Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 (edited) Basic but I'll put em up: Project RPM 5.1, AT150MLX, Project Speedbox S Rega P1(new model), Ortofon Blue Edited November 15, 2018 by blakey72 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hugo_wilco Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 6 hours ago, Peter-C said: Agree, Linn is overpriced, but an Akurate level LP12 is a little over $11k all-up, table, arm and cart. A Kuzma Ref2 with Stogi arm is what $19k ? (with no cart). It should be better. Mine also had the overpriced Radikal power supply which pushes it up to $18k!!!!!! The Kuzma with an arm and cartridge didn’t cost $19k it was much less and once again, better in every way. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter-C Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 3 hours ago, hugo_wilco said: Mine also had the overpriced Radikal power supply which pushes it up to $18k!!!!!! Ouch!!!! Happy with my Mober DC at $1.1k 3 hours ago, hugo_wilco said: The Kuzma with an arm and cartridge didn’t cost $19k it was much less and once again, better in every way. Well, I was quoting the retail prices. The Kuzma certainly looks like it's worth that as well IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hugo_wilco Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 Yeah. The Kuzma does everything the Linn does just better. Better width, depth, air, macro and micro dynamics and quieter. Also you don’t have to tip toe around it for fear of bumping the record. You can also use any tonearm and cartridge you like. Thats the real problem with Linn you have to use their products if you want to “play the tune” which is nonsense. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batty Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 Just acquired this 70s LP12, this is my new project. I will try the GH228 arm and V15 III cart. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterpan Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 16 minutes ago, Batty said: Just acquired this 70s LP12, this is my new project. I will try the GH228 arm and V15 III cart. great classic turntable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batty Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 That is a 1978 Planar 3 on the shelf below. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audiome Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 28 minutes ago, Batty said: Just acquired this 70s LP12, this is my new project. I will try the GH228 arm and V15 III cart. Is it worth restoring a 70s belt driven tt especially linn when the parts aren’t cheap and the sq u going to get out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batty Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 (edited) It is not about worth, I bought this TT because I had always wondered about them since I bought my Rock in 1986, now I have the opportunity to scratch that itch. As far as parts go, it is pretty much complete. I will not be fitting a Linn arm or cartridge, I may buy a new armboard to match an arm I have, I may just adapt. Plenty of choices. Edited October 13, 2018 by Batty 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audiome Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 2 minutes ago, Batty said: It is not about worth, I bought this TT because I had always wondered about them since I bought my Rock in 1986, now I have the opportunity to scratch that itch. So it is an emotional thingee. That’s great! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batty Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 1 minute ago, audiome said: So it is an emotional thingee. That’s great! Music is emotional. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audiome Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Batty said: Music is emotional. Better sq give u more emotion Edited October 13, 2018 by audiome 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter-C Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 That is a 1978 Planar 3 on the shelf below. I swapped my Planar 3 for a Linn in 1981 [emoji23] 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audiome Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Peter-C said: I swapped my Planar 3 for a Linn in 1981 U were very lucky. In 1981 linn still at their peak. Linn is still considered as innovative Edited October 13, 2018 by audiome 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batty Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 The 2 TTs in regular use are a 1980 Luxman PD264 and a 1986 Townshend Elite Rock mkII Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren M. Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 (edited) On 10/10/2018 at 8:18 PM, Batty said: A top of the range modern LP12 is very expensive and aftermarket parts for an old LP12 can bring it up to the same or better standard for less money than buying Linn parts. That is how I see it. Hi Batty. I think it is somewhat presumptuous to suggest that upgrading an old LP12 with aftermarket parts will take it beyond a $40K LP12. I've heard Tasebass's LP12 in my own system and it blew away my Once Analog / Audio Origami / Lyra Kleos / JLTi tube on my 1st stamper Abbey Road album. I've heard many $40K+ turntable systems which certainly would not! I am not a Linn purist by any means. I had my own LP12 for many years and had very sophisticated aftermarket upgrades done to it. These are the before and after pics. Inside the after-version was a Cetech subchassis and I'm sure there are better steel-frame or carbon-frame subchasses today. The top plate was flipped and polished though it is not possible to say there was a sound improvement from that. In any case the sound before and after these changes was not unlike the sound difference between a pre-Cirkus LP12 and a Keel LP12, at a fraction of the price. That was followed by a Once Analog DC motor and controller (similar to the top-of-line Origin Live DC motor and controller), which made another huge improvement in the sound coming from the turntable. Pretty well everything about the sound was vastly better, but the Once which replaced it was a lot better again. And that Once has had improvements too, since, but it is no match for Tasebass's $40K Linn. There is no reason to expect it to be, given that the entire Once including arm, cartridge, phono stage, upgrades, has cost me under $15,000. In fact just the arm and cartridge on Tase's LP12 would cost about that much afaik. Edited October 13, 2018 by Warren M. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevoz Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 3 hours ago, audiome said: Better sq give u more emotion With 'emotion' it's more about the 'type' of 'better SQ'....and that's subjective. Clean and clinical SQ may equal less emotion to some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasebass Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, Warren M. said: And that Once has had improvements too, since, but it is no match for Tasebass's $40K Linn. There is no reason to expect it to be, given that the entire Once including arm, cartridge, phono stage, upgrades, has cost me under $15,000. In fact just the arm and cartridge on Tase's LP12 would cost about that much afaik. Hey Warren...Hope alls well... In fairness we did conclude a loading issue between the Kleos and the JLTi if I remember correctly which might have contributed to proceedings as the difference was sometimes quite profound...as you mentioned re the SP Album... 2 things I noticed was the fact that the Klimax deck is all SM OP amps which were all cold with little to no warm up.......this was feeding into a valve amp and we got some great results. So mixing and matching new and old tech can work ... Also as seen in the photo the deck wasn't placed unfortunately in a not ideal position but still gave a great account of its abilities i think we got a Little foot fall but bugger all other issues. I had the deck set up ready to go in 40 mins give or take .... Tase Edited October 13, 2018 by Tasebass 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasebass Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 (edited) 12 hours ago, hugo_wilco said: The Kuzma with an arm and cartridge didn’t cost $19k it was much less and once again, better in every way. You got a great bargain there if you bought new as the List price of your front end is around $23K....well done.. Tase Edited October 13, 2018 by Tasebass 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audiome Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 6 hours ago, stevoz said: With 'emotion' it's more about the 'type' of 'better SQ'....and that's subjective. Clean and clinical SQ may equal less emotion to some. I don’t think clinical is what we are trying to achieve or it is part of good sq.Yes good sq is very subjective but I am sure we are all wanting fuller body, wider soundstage and feel like live music. Maybe there are audiophiles out there still loving those 70s or 80s dirty warm sounding from the radio and are they consider good sq or personal preference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gnnett Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 2 hours ago, audiome said: I don’t think clinical is what we are trying to achieve or it is part of good sq.Yes good sq is very subjective but I am sure we are all wanting fuller body, wider soundstage and feel like live music. Maybe there are audiophiles out there still loving those 70s or 80s dirty warm sounding from the radio and are they consider good sq or personal preference? You are so right I remember how awful music sounded on the radio and how it now sounds so much better now as technology and the advances in the recording process have enhanced all our musical lives. You might like to read this article. https://www.cnet.com/news/compression-is-killing-your-music/ Now where is my iPod, that replaced my LP12. LOL Gn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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