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dogsrus

Hitachi C47-WD5000

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@ kearns5,

“1. When you push the service button does the green matrix appear instantly on the screen?”

Yes

NOTE that the “Menu” button is used to select different test patters for convergence.

You can even select no test pattern so you can use a test DVD or display a pattern from you PC to do the convergence.

This is what I do for final fine tuning.

“2. Once the new convergence is written to the ROM do I just press the service button again? “

After doing your adjustments you press the “index” button to save settings to ROM.

You will then be prompted with “Write to ROM”. You then press “Index” again to save to ROM.

The screen will go blank for a moment and then a screen full of green dots will appear.

You can the press the audio mute button to return to the adjustment screen to check your adjustments have been saved correctly.

You may then press the little blue convergence button to exit the service convergence mode.

“3. Is it the case that any stage of the service adjustment that I can just press the service button again to get out of the service mode?”

Yes

“I've noticed when there are very bright images on the screen - particularly with a black background - that there is a slight flare. I assume Owen this is why you've blacked out the inside of the set. Very clever.”

The slight flare you see is partly lens flare, partly screen /cabinete reflections and partly reflections inside the CRT’s.

All CRT rear projectors suffer this to some extent. Even direct view CRT TV’s exhibit this phenomena.

Blacking out the interior of the TV does not cure this problem. But it does help.

“The problem with the colour is, in my opinion, only slight and most noticeable when you view a standard 50Hz set. I've noticed that most 100Hz sets don't resolve the footy very well and can be a little iffy with some colours.”

Colour is identical in all modes as fare as I know.

I don’t like the 100Hz mode on the Hitachi as it produces artifacts and find the Virtual HD mode fare superior.

I generally upscale everything to 1080i in my PC for output to the TV via component interface.

With the assistance of FFDShow video processing, DVD playback at 1080i is spectacular and almost as good as HD.

Owen

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Owen

Thanks for providing those answers.The covers come off tomorrow!

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Owen,

Spray paint and blocks of wood - now thats the sort of DIY I like to hear applied to expensive and highly sensitive electronics... any liquid nails in there too? - that's a personal favourite of mine - you can stick a fan in a PC anywhere with that stuff, and it comes off OK too if you need to move it :blink: I am impressed! simple and highly effective! - I still dont know whether its shock or awe reading about the spray-painting on the inside of the cabinet I think its awe... I certaily hope your masking skills are better than  mine! (I have memoried of painting an old car, in a mates barn, with a dirt floor on a windy day with industrial structural primer - oh how the police loved that car)..

Cheers,

Bitey

I'm still wondering what Owen's going to say when he needs some work done under warranty, (or is that what Hitachi is going to say!).

Liquid nails on the pc case fans - what a great idea. They should be much quieter too.

Well, firstly I consider the TV an expendable item. It was purchased to perform one task, and that was to give me the best picture of that size possible today. Cost was not a significant issue as I was prepared to spent three times the price of the Hitachi on privately importing a Toshiba 57” 1080p LCOS RPTV from the US before they where discontinued.

I don’t expect to own the set for more then 2 years, as by then I expect the digital displays will have finally surpassed the performance of CRT RPTV’s, but I may be wrong. :P

Any modification that improves performance is ok by me and the warranty is irrelevant and I have to say that the improvements provided by my mods are very impressive and definatelly worthwhile.

That being said, the mods I have performed can be easily undone if required. The painting of the inside of the cabinet looks factory and I seriously doubt that any service tech would pick it.

Anyway, it does not affect the operation of the electronics in any way and I cannot see how it could be used to disallow warranty repairs.

Regards,

Owen

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Hi Owen

I have a Hitachi C47wd5000 and am very happy with it so far. From the sounds of things it could be a great deal better.

Do you do House calls?

Cheers

Stephen

Yes Stephen, fare better then you would believe possible. :blink:

If you have a good HTPC to play DVD’s the results are very, very impressive.

I was one of the pioneers of the FFDShow video post processing craze that is sweeping the AVS HTPC Forum.

If you live in or near Sydney I would consider doing a house call.

Regards,

Owen

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I have now completed all the modes on my C57WD5000 I can think of for the moment.

The latest additions are the installation of black cloth covered shields to prevent light refracted of the edges of the CRT lenses from hitting the screen or casing. And installing lens strips to correct slight color differences from one side of the screen to the other.

This took me a couple of hours and cost almost nothing.

If you want to learn about “lens striping” do a search in google or go here for an explanation.

http://www.keohi.com/keohihdtv/experttips/...enstriping.html

and

http://www.keohi.com/keohihdtv/experttips/...enstriping.html

The net result of all my simple and very inexpensive mods is a gorgeously smooth, detailed and film like picture with blacks you could fall into, the likes of which digital display owners can only dream of. :blink:

Regards,

Owen

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Thanks for the info Owen, very informative. I have a question. I have a SD decoder with hdd recording by KAON. I notice that when displaying some images (mainly red) that it does some kinda pixelation or interpolation around the edges of the finer details. (I think i am dribbling here). could it be that the tv is converting the SD signal to 1080 mode and is making this occur?

That is by far the worst explanation I have ever written...

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Buckwheat,

First, you did not mentioned how your TV is connected to the SD decoder.

Svideo or component should both work well. Composite should be avoided.

Digital TV will display some pixilation due to Mpeg compression, and some decoders are better then others in this regard. Pixilation will be exaggerated by the SVM or edge enhancement that the Hitachi does by default.

Edge enhancement needs to be reduced in the service menu.

The sharpness control can also be used to minimize this problem, so try turning sharpness down.

The TV can be set to display in standard 576i, 576i 100Hz, 576p (Progressive) or 1080i (Virtual HD).

I recommend you use the Virtual HD mode.

Regards,

Owen

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I'd just like to say thanks to Owen for being so helpful.

The tv does indeed look very nice with edge enhancement off, color corrected (I got it to my liking using DVE) and manually converged. The convergence was a bit diffuclt to get a grasp of intially but after a while you get the hang of it.

cheers,

nitin

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I am quoted A$3200 for the 47", how much did you pay for yours?

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Thanks Nitin. I think I may be able to haggle down to 3K. My main use would be through TV through aerial (no HD stuff where I live - Weipa) and HTPC (for downloaded DIVX, XVID, MPEG and DVD movies). Am I getting the right TV?

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After the tweaks that owen mentioned, it looks very good for the price range. I get standard tv too and it looks quite good.

As for HTPC, I dont use it so cant say, normal dvd playback is quite outstanding through component output anyway.

Out of the box though, you may not be as impressed, depends how fussy you are. To me, the color balance was off straight away and egde enhancement was annoying. Once you fix those though, it really does shine.

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How do you upscale on your HTPC?, are you running a HD Internal Video Card on ur PC?, or are you using a Digital set top box?.

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Any PC video card can do the scaling, but for best quality I use a software scaler-processor called FFDShow.

FFDShow uses better algorithms to scale the image then video cards and can also apply sharpening and other filters like noise reduction.

FFDShow is used in the playback chain, so it can be used to upscale DVD’s or video recorded on the PC to 1080i for output to the display.

The resulting quality is truly OUTSTANDING and MUCH better then a stand alone DVD player.

Regards,

Owen

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Pixilation will be exaggerated by the SVM or edge enhancement that the Hitachi does by default.

Edge enhancement needs to be reduced in the service menu.

The sharpness control can also be used to minimize this problem, so try turning sharpness down.

The TV can be set to display in standard 576i, 576i 100Hz, 576p (Progressive) or 1080i (Virtual HD).

I recommend you use the Virtual HD mode.

Owen,

I had the opportunity to view the C57-WD5000 at Harvey Norman the other day, side by side with a slightly smaller plasma, both showing Bugs Life.

The Hitachi picture was very dark and terribly aliased in comparison to the plasma.

Whilst I'm sure the Hitachi could be tweaked to be much better and I suspect the salesdroids have purposefully downgraded the image so as to cast the plasma in a better light, what would cause the aliasing appearance? I thought the Hitachi had a Faroudja de-interlacer, or maybe I have mis-heard specifications.

The very reflective screen was the main thing that disappointed: I thought the basic image had potential.

Is the Hitachi capable of better than 50/60Hz and can you offer any comments on how the Virtual HD works and why you recommend it?

Ian

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Ian,

First of all, if you are not the kind of person who likes to tinker and is prepared to do the calibration work that is required to get the best out a CRT RPTV, then buy a digital RPTV or a Plasma.

Also if the reflective screen surface will be a problem, stick to models that have anti reflective screens.

If I have not discouraged you yet, then a CRT RPTV may be for you.

Be assured that a correctly set up Hitachi 57” HD RPTV will outperform a 60” Plasma.

Pay no attention to the dreadful picture that you see in a retail showroom as VERY few CRT RPTV’s look good in a retailer and the Hitachi looks worse than many, as it’s default setup really sucks.

Having a good clean upscaled source is VERY important in getting the best out of any big screen when viewed from close distances. A HTPC or maybe an external scaler processor is highly recommended.

You may have noticed people complaining about not being able to view a 50” HD Plasma from 2.5 meters due to poor picture quality. Well I view my 57” from 2.8 meters and have amazing picture quality with good HD source and very good quality with DVD’s, partly due to the HTPC I use to upscale.

99.5% of people have never seen a properly set up CRT RPTV and can have absolutely no idea of how good they can be.

Unfortunately, unlike the US, where CRT RPTV’s are very widely used and professional calibration services are readily available, I am not aware of anyone offering this service in Australia.

The Hitachi has a 100Hz mode and a 576p mode, but I find the virtual HD mode that upscales SD input to 1080i looks much better.

The 100Hz mode and 576p mode are still only PAL standard 576 lines and that is just not enough to cover a 57” screen without visible scan lines. 1080i is the way to go for a good picture on the Hitachi.

Regards,

Owen

P.S. If you are serious and live in Sydney, you could come and see my Hitachi in action and become one of the 0.5 %. :blink:

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Owen,

According to the Imaging Science website, there are 2 in australia:

Pro Image Media Systems Lockleys, SA

Weststate Audio Video Systems Maida Vale

I cant find any reference to 'pro image' here in SA - ive not tried the phone number yet however :blink:

IanD,

The shiny-screen MAY not be a problem, if your willing to (or have a tech) restack the screen(s).. There are multiple 'screens' that make up the screen the image is projected onto - including the shiny one. You may be able restack the screen such that the shiny screen is one deeper in the stack..

Cheers,

Bitey

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I don’t think it will be practical to restack the screen on the Hitachi as the protective shiny outer screen goes out to the very edge of the Bessel and appears to be glued in from the front.

The lenticulare screen is attached by screw clamps from the rear.

Unless you have an uncontrolled light source directly opposite the screen, like an uncurtained window behind you viewing position, the reflective screen should not be a big problem.

I personally prefer the shiny screen as it adds depth to the image and is probably tinted to improve blacks.

The blacks on the Hitachi are very good. In fact I have never seen any display with better blacks.

Regards,

Owen

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Owen,

Theres a process on Keohi that describes restacking a hitachi - obviously for a different model - thats for clearing that up! (although I am dissapoined, as im still in limbo regarding my toshiba, and hitachi was next on my list)..

In my situation, I have light from 3 sides!! (a fish tank on to the side, 3-4M of sliding door/glass on the other side, and a doorway almost directly behind to my other lounge of which the back-side is all windows/glass sliding door).. I _need_ an antireflective screen :-) - I do agree with you tho, the antireflective screens DO effect image quality by their very nature of diffusing the light.

Cheers,

Bitey

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Owen,

According to the Imaging Science website, there are 2 in australia:

Pro Image Media Systems Lockleys, SA

Weststate Audio Video Systems Maida Vale

I cant find any reference to 'pro image' here in SA - ive not tried the phone number yet however :blink:

I remember looking at the ISF site sometime last year and they also had a place in Brisbane that was listed as doing it. So I emailed they to ask if they knew anyone reliable in Sydney and kindly never replied...

Perhaps you may be lucky with Pro Image in SA, that is if they aren't limited to commercial customers. I'd drop them a line and find out. Perhaps they even know firms in other states who may have the capabilities to do ISF quality cal. but haven't bothered to register on the US ISF website.

If you do get to talk to them, please let us know what you find out...

Regards,

Oz

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You may have noticed people complaining about not being able to view a 50” HD Plasma from 2.5 meters due to poor picture quality. Well I view my 57” from 2.8 meters and have amazing picture quality with good HD source and very good quality with DVD’s, partly due to the HTPC I use to upscale.

99.5% of people have never seen a properly set up CRT RPTV and can have absolutely no idea of how good they can be.

Unfortunately, unlike the US, where CRT RPTV’s are very widely used and professional calibration services are readily available, I am not aware of anyone offering this service in Australia.

You are SO correct here. I get great PQ from my 47 inch panasonic HD CRT RPTV, but i have never seen the same TV look anywhere near as good in store... In fact they usually look really average.

I've done the service level calibration etc myself.

I can sit well inside 2 meters and still get a great picture....

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Thanks everyone, especially Owen, for the comments about the Hitachi RPTV. As of yesterday I am now the proud owner of the c57 model. Have adjusted my settings to those suggested Nitin though I have reduced the colour by a few more notches. This has made a vast improvement on the original settings. I'm now waiting for a technician to come out and fine tune the rest of the TV for me.

If anyone is interested in buying one of these TVs then they might be pleasantly surprised. According to my friend who sold my the TV, the c57 set has come down $800 in price over the last month. A month ago he quoted me $4400; I just paid $3600 yesterday. What a bargain.

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Thanks everyone, especially Owen, for the comments about the Hitachi RPTV. As of yesterday I am now the proud owner of the c57 model. Have adjusted my settings to those suggested Nitin though I have reduced the colour by a few more notches. This has made a vast improvement on the original settings. I'm now waiting for a technician to come out and fine tune the rest of the TV for me.

If anyone is interested in buying one of these TVs then they might be pleasantly surprised. According to my friend who sold my the TV, the c57 set has come down $800 in price over the last month. A month ago he quoted me $4400; I just paid $3600 yesterday. What a bargain.

Thats a hell of a price!! specially compared to the Toshiba

Cheers,

Bitey

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Bigal,

I recommend that you wait until you get at least 100 hours on the Hitachi before getting the tech out to tweak it.

Make sure that you disable edge enhancement (SVM) for all picture modes as I discussed in an earlier post. Menu items 147,149,150

The only thing the tech should need to do that you cannot is adjust the gray scale for the “Cool” mode (menu items 45-49) to get the colour right.

The “Normal” and “Warm” modes have separate adjustments that use the “Cool” mode settings as a base, and apply a modifying factor to the Cool settings.

These settings are undocumented and are menu items 50-59 and you don’t need to change them.

You will also need to do a service level convergence. This is easy to do yourself if you get the service manual.

Keep your Contrast set as low as possible (about 25-30 range).

Turn down the Sharpness for low quality inputs.

You should also use the “Natural” or “Theater” modes for good quality or HD inputs as this avoids any picture processing by the TV and will be cleaner.

You will notice that all the so called picture enhancement options such as “Noise reduction” and “Colour Management” are not available in these modes.

Have fun with your new toy.

At $3500 the Hitachi must be the best value HD TV available, and if correctly set up, can attain picture quality as good as anything available, regardless of price.

Regards,

Owen

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