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speedtriple

SD PLasma Vs HD Tube - non enthusiast

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Hi

To Santa,a bit tough on Sony, OK so you purchased a Beta VCR,get over it. They make good Cockroach traps,just open the front flap and leave it turned on. They are going thru a bad patch at present but just wait and see whats around the corner. I think the main reason for the drop in profits is the 'crap' end of the market Samsung,Teac LG/Goldstar etc have in the last few years have started to produce consumer goods nearly as good,(the power supply has to provide enough current for max. use not min. demand)nearly as reliable and for half the price of Sony products.

Anyway back to the Topic, it should be obvious to everyone that CRT TV's as a technology is dead, however that doesn't mean the product(overall) cycle will end any time soon. They will reduce the price, cram them with features(built in digital tuners,harddrives, card readers,internet boxes etc ) until the market is aged(finished) Then they will start on the developing countries(Africa,Asia India Pakistan Indonesia etc ) and go thru the whole process again. The CRTTV will be around for several more years yet.

On the subject of Plasmas our local Club purchased one about 2 years ago and the 4:3 square in the middle is of a different intensity to the sides, looks bad close up. I know they have improved greatly over the past year or so but any prospective buyers should be careful and stick with (Opinion) Sony or Panny.

Regards Basil(after a long lunch)

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I sympathise with Speedtriple. Choosing a new screen at the moment is difficult because all of the currently available high-end technologies have some flaws. Here is a summary as I see it:

Projectors:

Great in terms of price and picture quality. Not a realistic option if it is your only daily use TV unless you can mount the projector somewhere (ie not good for renters). Also helps if you can control the light in the room.

Plasmas:

Still expensive for high resolution screens. The are big, they have a stable poster-like image that creates a "wow" factor, and they can look good in a lounge room. You still have to be a bit careful with burn in with Plasmas.

LCDs:

These will improve in both price and quality, but are still ridiculously expensive. They can also suffer poor black levels and a restricted viewing angle.

CRT:

High resolution and a good picture for a reasonable price. The sets are absolutely massive, so they won't be suitable for everyone's available space. The screen size is also relatively small for modern home theatres. The technology is towards the end of its life cycle, so if you are planing on keeping it for some years it is going to start to look a bit old school (kind of like still having a reel to reel tape recorder).

A few other thoughts that people might consider:

Size does matter. Often people try and compare picture quality between small and large screens which is pointless.

Resolution is not everything. Use your eyes and see what looks good. Just to prove a point, the computer monitor I am looking at as I type this has a terrible picture (its an LG) even though the resolution of this screen is quite impressive.

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Well summed up CoNFooZed

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Yes, good summary - but you left out RPTV's

Yes, I should have mentioned something about RPTVs. Most the RPTV's I have seen have looked a bit dull compared with CRTs and plasmas and they can also suffer from limited viewing angles. I have to confess that I haven't looked at that many so there may be some newer ones that look better. They can have a relatively small footprint for a large screen which is a plus.

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Yeah, but they still look like a ' block of flats ' though !

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I'm currently wanting to go and have another look at the LG DLP tv. It seems not a bad concept with big screen in shallow case and doesnt have any base like a RPTV. PQ was very good and price's seem very negotiable.

Side viewing was ok but altering vertical viewing position seemed to have a negative effect so I maybe wasting my time as I like to sometimes be lying along the lounge or sitting back to one side, slightly higher than lounge at a table with a coffee - bottom line tv needs to be good viewing quality if in a reasonable variety of viewing positions and I need to really investigate this more...

On another note I emailed Palsonic and they are releasing a 86cm HD end of month for around $3000. (salesman told me of a new set coming)Furthermore I email Samsung and they are releasing a DLP in July/August, looking at the DLP's on their USA site the specs are superb compared to the LG.

http://www.samsung.com/Products/TV/Project...nTV_HLM437W.htm

What a major thing this has turned into - I thourght it'll be no trouble to choose a new tv - have it over and done soon as - haha :blink:

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The issue of screen size when comparing SD screens to HD screens seems to have been forgotten.

Size does matter for high definition displays.

If you compare a relatively small 42” 16:9 SD display with the same size HD display the differences are small to undetectable at a normal viewing distance of 2.5-3 meters. For smaller displays, HD is pretty much a waste of time unless you are going to view it from an unreasonably close distance of less then 2 meters and how many people watch TV from less then 2 meters.

For larger screens like 57” or bigger the difference between SD and HD displays is blatantly obvious at 2.5-3 meters. Even for SD source (DVD) up scaled to HD resolution.

It all comes down to the viewing distance to screen size ratio. HD TV was designed to allow large screens to be viewed up close so that your field of vision is filled while maintaining a crystal clear image for that better then cinema experience.

Small screens can never take advantage of this due to the viewing distances required.

When it comes to large screens (57” or bigger) front and rear projectors are king. Yes there are 60” Plasmas but the ones I have seen are not that impressive and very expensive. In Australia our available options for RPTV’s are very limited. LCD RPTV’s have some way to go before they can be considered great performers. Large DLP RPTV’s are not available and the second generation true HD (1920x1080) models are years away for Aussies. Then there is LCOS. I have seen the wonderful but ill fated US model Toshiba 57” LCOS. This TV was VERY impressive and made any Plasma look sad buy comparison. Unfortunately three chip LCOS technology will be denied use for a year or two as well.

That leaves CRT HD RPTV’s as the only other available option. To get good performance out of one of these TV’s requires some skill and effort on the part of the owner. This makes them more suited to the enthusiast owner. In Australia we don’t have the qualified professionals available to calibrate these TV’s for the average owner who does not have the will or the skill to do it for them selves. As delivered, most of these TV’s give a very ordinary performance but for the video enthusiast / hobbyist owner prepared to set one up correctly, CRT HD RPTV’s offer the best big screen picture available and they are very affordable as well.

So much for dead technology.

Regards,

Owen

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Hi

As I said previously stumbled onto these posts whilst looking for details on a particular TV. GEEEEZ, poor speedtriple,we will be recommending a good Psychiatrist instead of TV before this Topic dies.

To owen,you forgot to mention the price of LCOS(Liquid Crystal on Silicon) RP Sets. I am a bit out of date but the good ones last year were around US$10,ooo, and a leading US magazine advised not to buy one as they had unspecified problems.Do you know what these problems were/are?,Bankruptcy among Owners?

If and when they get to OZ they will be 3 times the price of latest model Plasmas.

Regards Basil

C/o The Fawltey Towers Laser Disc and Crab Pot Weights Super Store

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Price, I did not know we were talking price. The first generation Toshiba LCOS TV’s were discontinued and the second generation never produced, probably due to technical and cost issues. They were expected to cost about $12,000 - $14,000 AUD for the 57” if they ever came down under according to Castel the Australian Toshiba distributor. I was waiting to buy one but when I found out that they had been discontinued I purchased a 57" HD CRT RPTV that will carry me through till the digital displays can outperform it. It looks like that will be up to two years judging buy what was announced at the US CES for 2004-2005 release.

Don’t expect these upcoming large true HD (1920x1080p) digital displays to be cheap.

Toshiba have decided to go with DLP technology for now. I hope they go with 3 chip, or we will have rainbow problems. I bet they don’t due to cost.

As for prices compared to Plasma, well I think that is the wrong question. I would rather compare quality. Price is a secondary consideration. Most people are more interested in price v quality.

Anyway, have you looked at the price of a medium definition 60” Plasma?

You are paying for fashion not picture quality.

Regards,

Owen

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Hi

To Owen ,you raised some good points in your posts but I just feel if reccomending something it should be affordable and available.

You said 60" Plasmas are very expensive,which they are but the examples you gave of RP TV.s are more so. Anyway won't get into an argument as you have obviously done lots of research .enjoyed this topic and learnt a lot .

Regards Basil

C/o The Fawltey Towers Laser Disc and Crab Pots Weights Super Store

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Furthermore I email Samsung and they are releasing a DLP in July/August, looking at the DLP's on their USA site the specs are superb compared to the LG.

http://www.samsung.com/Products/TV/Project...nTV_HLM437W.htm

If that is the set thats coming in July/August, it will do me.

Especially if they're serious about the viewing angle and also being more affordable than plasmas.

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Anyone own the brand new Samsung WS32Z10? Available at birite. Around $3k. 76cm widescreen with built in 40Gb PVR...

There is a seperate thread on this TV that has just started. Yet another option to consider.

I feel for Speedtriple. I am having the same problems. Foxtel digital to be installed mid-April and I currently own a 51 cm 12 year old mono JVC with a melted plastic case (be careful with candles chaps!)...

Currently leaning towards the Sony KVHX32M31. Picture quality is brilliant. Would love the 86cm but too much $. Would like to wait to check out the new Samsung DLP which is coming July/August but can't wait that long...

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And the winner is...

Well I have made a decision after all -

I eliminated the DLP's as a option due to the restricted vertical viewing angles which made it unsuitable for my personal viewing habits which see me roaming around room.

I came back to the 86cm Japanese CRT's sitting around $4K - but again just not big enough for what I had in mind.

I had allready scratched off the low res plasma's.

So I have ended up with the Hitachi 42PD5000 HD plasma at a touch over $6k. Cost a bit more but after starting out looking mostly for SD viewing big screen, I along the way have become a convert to the HD format :P

even going to follow through and up-spec my DVD player now!

So anyway hopefully have all covered with the Hitachi - good size - viewable at angles and in daylight - nice PQ and HD to boot.

Now to the STB - after getting the Hitachi I was unable to find a Toshiba STB in any shops - also I have been unable to connect to these forums for last few days (was server down?) so I tried to remember what not to buy - anything dgtec - righto - but couldnt recall about the Panasonic HD STB - well anyway got to thinking hmmm.. Panasonic - good brand - should be ok - yeah right - 2nd day - 2nd unit :blink: first one simply locked up every hour or so - which I now read is common. Not sure about PQ - it all looks so good to me still that need more time to detect image problems as mentioned in other threads about the Pana stb in SD - I dearly hope that all will be fine with this 2nd Pana box hooked up to the Hitachi. (crosses fingers)

A BIG thanks to everyone for their help! Now to get everything else in my system up to scratch!

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Speedtriple

Just started to read this thread today, Congratulations,

Was it the Hitachi PD5000 MA model ? A touch over 6K is a great price who did you go through?

I am currently in the process of purchasing a plasma and looked at the PD5000 yesterday, nice bit of gear! I'm deciding between the Hitachi an NEC and a Fujitsu, I also like the Panasonics

Did you go for an extended warranty ? 1 year seems a bit to short for piece of mind although I note NEC & Fujitsu etc are now offering 3 years

Dont know much about STB's

Anyway congrats again and ENJOY

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Speedtriple

Another quick question does the PD5000MA (if thats the one you got) come with speakers and stand ? On website it looks like it doesnt although the store I spoke to said it did when they ordered it in for another customer.

Cheers

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Another quick question does the PD5000MA (if thats the one you got) come with speakers and stand ? On website it looks like it doesnt although the store I spoke to said it did when they ordered it in for another customer.

There's 3 models - the 5000MA just has the stand. The other models have an internal tuner & speakers, or media box & speakers.

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Hi dpf,

Yes the MA model with desktop stand . Also available was the more expensive VA kit which has stand, speakers and media box - but I thourght the later not much use as will always have input from STB for tv and will always have sound output to hi-fi system.

I ended up buying from Clive Anthony's northside (brisbane) but this was not my initial choice - nobody wanted to come below $7K in QLD - floor price was $8499-$8999 in shops, I got CA down to $7k neat, I had seen someone got one for $6300 delivered from Bankstown hi-fi on the EYO forums so I contacted them and was going to go with that deal shipped up when salesman phones me from CA, so I simply told him that price with stand ($499 option on bare MA) or no deal. So dunno real worth of stand but anyway low $6k for both seems reasonable price for brisbane stores.

I didnt get extended warranty - for me things usually either stuff up in first few weeks or not at all - I would of if perhaps buying a Korean/Chinese brand (personal experience) but at $1100 for extended warranty (with lots of loopholes in wording) I decided I had more faith in Hitachi product than the dodgy looking extended warranty.

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Speedtriple,

Thanks for the info,

Think you got a great deal! Best price I have seen in Canberra was $8000 for the MA model. Didnt tried to bargin the price down on this set but have been offered big discounts on some other brands. Didnt think they'd go that low!

My question re stand and speakers was based on salesman stating the PD5000MA they got in last week came with speakers and stand standard in price. I questioned him a number of times on this as I new of the other models and thought MA was bare bones. He was actually a very helpful nice salesman as opposed to a lot of the others.

Dont really need the speakers as have home theater setup although could be useful for the kids just watching afternoon tv.

I sought of agree on warranty, dont think I would pay extra to go to 5 years over 3 (also quote $1100) but I have a little nagging doubt about only one year. To be honest I have never had to use the warranty of any electrical equipment I have bought so its just piece of mind.

Anyway have you had it delivered yet ? Let us know how you find it once your all set up at home

Enjoy

DPF

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Speedtriple,

just went back and checked my quotes $8000 on the PD5000MA included 5 yr warranty, speakers & stand. That warranty certainly adds to cost!

cheers

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Hi,

I spend most of yesterday trying to bargain the price for the MA model (in Melbourne), no store here is willing to come down from $7k (panel + stand).

SpeedTriple, $6.3k is an excellent price, I wish we had similar prices here in Melbourne :blink:

cheers,

Ritesh

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dpf,

I am currently in the process of purchasing a plasma and looked at the PD5000

Looks like the MA could be a good buy at the moment.

extended warranty ? 1 year seems a bit to short for piece of mind although I note  NEC & Fujitsu etc are now offering 3 years

Check out NEC's site for warranty - Limited warranty only.

Hitachi warranty on their site stated "back to base".

The warranties on their sites are worth checking out.

Dont know much about STB's

This thread may be of some help in regard to Hitachi + HD STB

http://www.dtvforum.info/index.php?showtopic=3820

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Have the Hitachi all set up now - one word - SUPERB :P

If keen on one of these then you could quote Bankstown Hi-Fi price to local shops as i did - they were $6325 for MA with stand and sydney metro delivery - simply say "match or better it or I'm going home to order one from them" - which is option - they will del interstate, to Brisbane fully insured was $145 - but dont tell local shops the del is that much or they will want to only compete on price with del added in ... tell em you can get del 'very reasonable' or something like that so they are working against the sydney price - be ruthless :blink:

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Hi SpeedTriple,

I have been quoting that price, and so far NO-ONE has been able to match it, JBs, CPs, etc. etc. all are saying it is really below their cost price or something.

I have been in touch with Bankstown HiFi, and everything with delivery will cost me $6.5k, I haven't come across a single store that is offering even close to that here....

I think, the $7k that I have been able to get, there may only be margin or another $100 or so it seems....

Anyway I have a few more stores to try, and will see how I go, or else I might just take my chances and order from Sydney....

Nice to hear that you have everything setup and are enjoying your monitor, happy viewing :-)

cheers,

Ritesh

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Hi ritesh,

Best of luck with your shopping - I know what you mean as I got the 'thats below our buy price' line a few times, where I eventually got it I spoke to the manager as sales guys simply wouldnt move much on price and even then, when I came back with the Sydney price he said 'impossible' so I emailed him details and he started talking some nonsense like as if I was asking him to fudge the books - haha - its all a game of course :P

And proof is - I wandered back to JB Hi-Fi shop looking for something else after making deal and the sales guy I had bugged for 3 visits - and who said buy price was nearly 7 blah blah, cant do much better etc - got talking to me, when hearing I'd made a firm deal with another shop and was on way to pick it up asked me to wait and went to see manager - returned offering it now for $15 under my price :blink: . Yeah right!

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