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Drizt

AV Pre/Pro as your HIFI pre and/or dac ???

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I hear you, but in practical terms, you and I dont have to worry about it, so why care?

All that matters, is finding the best solution for the system, whether it has bypass or not.

In my case, it allows me to run an older (very reputable) 2ch pre, which I got at a reasonable price 2nd hand. I contemplated mod'ing it for bypass, but I dont need to go to that expense, it's a moot point.

Back on topic. I'd love to try the 9.9, and am interested to hear your experience with it, if you have the opportunity to try it on your system. My wife and I also watch more HT together (similar ratio). I tend to listen to music on my own, as our music tastes are very different for the most part.

Ill let you know how we go.

Jen and I actually have very similar music tastes. I think we influence each others tastes in music.

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A few years back I went through the same thoughts with AV pre/DAC.

The DVD player had quite good 2 channel performance (Denon A11) and was getting use as a universal player. Comparisons of running digital or analogue signal from the Denon into a Krell HTS were close, more of and aquired taste of the softer Denon DAC presentation vs the more upfront and 'etched' presentation when using the Krell HTS DACs.

Purchasing a MF A5 cd player relegated the Denon A11 from cd duties, and provided a better DAC than using the Krell HTS. Got the upfront dynamics of the Krell HTS DAC's from the MF, but with less etch and a sweeeter bottom to top presentation (valve output...).

Whilst getting the Denon disc drawer repaired I used a LG el cheapo DVD player as a transport for a while (into the Krell HTS). Listenable, but quite restrained and flat in presentation. Still, good to crank up whilst doing the dishes or bookwork in the office.

If I were to rank my preference of DAC 'units' that I have listened to (owned and listened to for a decent while) over the past five years.

1. Krell KPS-28C

2. Musical Fidelity A5

3. Muscal Fidelity A3.24

4. Krell HTS 5.1

5. Audio Alchemy DDE v1.1 (heavily modified)

6. Denon DVD-A11

7. Denon DVD-3900

8. Denon cd-1550ar

9. Luxman cd-105u (valve hybrid)

The point of the list is you get what you pay for. Krell's HTS is not the best preforming 2 channel DAC in the list. Mind you, the 5.1 performance of the HTS is easily the best...

The designers/engineers can only do so much with the budget and brief they are given. A good AV Pre/Pro will provide an enjoyable 2 channel DAC source and preamp, but in general compromises will have to be made (there are exceptions, but $$$ is always a factor). Using an AV pre/pro wouldn't be a bad starting point on the journey.

But if you are serious about 2 channel performance, it may be worthwhile compromising on the AV pre/pro spend and having a future upgrade plan in place for a dedicated cd player (or turntable) and 2 channel preamp.

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G'day,

Dug up this thread while searching for AV pre/pro solutions ...

Anyway, I'm currently using my Rotel RSP-1068 AV pre/pro in the main system, hooked up to a Rotel CD-1072 CD player and SB3 and Stello DAC. I would like to integrate my ME15 pre-amp but it's too fiddly to get right IMHO. So the ME15/ME550-II combo is sadly relegated to the office system for now.

These Integra jobbies sound interesting ... although I think they are rebadged Onkyo receivers, no? Might have to ask the great gazoogle for more info.

--Geoff

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I have found any av pre pro is too much of a compromise in a high end 2 channel and 5.4 surround system,even on movie surround in my system,therefore I use analog out for bluray,dvd and use 3 different pre amps for 5.4 surrounds (bat vk-5 L.R) (copland cva 306 centre,rear left and rear right)(proceed AVP SUB VOLUME ONLY BLUERAY,surround for foxtel,tv,etc)

Theta casablanca II,mark levinson No 40 listen in all Genesis surround,wilson audio maxx 2,watt surround and all Martin logan surround systems they sounded ok,audio research ref2 mkII crushed both on 2 channel cheaper than both new,1/3 the $ of ML No40 but they do surround decoding,In the under $20k the arcam av9 sounded good and does switching,but analog suits my amps and speakers much better(martin logan prodigy,s ,logos,rears requests,subs 2 revel b-15,2 genesis 900 rears).

Please note it is far easier with av pre,and HDMI connection for audio low to med system,but to get that extra 15% try it and you won,t go back regards victor.

Hi Victor,

I am a stereo guy so forgive my ignorance when it comes to the multi-channel domain but if I understand you correctly you let the blue-ray disc player do all of the decoding of the surround information, bass management, etc and then feed its 6 line level analogue outputs into three separate analogue stereo preamps to control the volume of each amp/speaker pairing?

Have you considered a multi-channel analogue preamp such as this unit from Audio Research to reduce the box count/clutter?

attachment.php?attachmentid=9034&stc=1&d=1249046853attachment.php?attachmentid=9035&stc=1&d=1249046853

attachment.php?attachmentid=9036&stc=1&d=1249046853http://www.audioresearch.com/MP1.html

For my own tastes I could see it partnering up very nicely with a player like this for movies and multi-channel music....

attachment.php?attachmentid=9037&stc=1&d=1249047141

http://www.pioneer.com.au/Products/Home%20Entertainment/Blu%20ray%20Disc%20Players/BDPLX91.aspx

and this for multi-channel music and/or SD-DVD duties......

attachment.php?attachmentid=9038&stc=1&d=1249047614

http://www.esoteric.jp/products/esoteric/dv60/indexe.html

.....in conjunction with 5 active full range speakers and a host of dedicated subwoofers.

Edited by Young Skywalker

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Hi Victor,

I am a stereo guy so forgive my ignorance when it comes to the multi-channel domain but if I understand you correctly you let the blue-ray disc player do all of the decoding of the surround information, bass management, etc and then feed its 6 line level analogue outputs into three separate analogue stereo preamps to control the volume of each amp/speaker pairing?

Have you considered a multi-channel analogue preamp such as this unit from Audio Research to reduce the box count/clutter?

attachment.php?attachmentid=9034&stc=1&d=1249046853attachment.php?attachmentid=9035&stc=1&d=1249046853

attachment.php?attachmentid=9036&stc=1&d=1249046853http://www.audioresearch.com/MP1.html

For my own tastes I could see it partnering up very nicely with a player like this for movies and multi-channel music....

attachment.php?attachmentid=9037&stc=1&d=1249047141

http://www.pioneer.com.au/Products/Home%20Entertainment/Blu%20ray%20Disc%20Players/BDPLX91.aspx

and this for multi-channel music and/or SD-DVD duties......

attachment.php?attachmentid=9038&stc=1&d=1249047614

http://www.esoteric.jp/products/esoteric/dv60/indexe.html

.....in conjunction with 5 active full range speakers and a host of dedicated subwoofers.

Hi Young Skywalker,

Thankyou for your comments, Yes I have listened to MP1 and the copland cva306 (6 channel tube pre)is better sounding but less flexible.

The reason for 3 pre amps is sub volume was very low,and need speaker distances and levels to time align (proceed AVP is better for sub control with maybe a degrade to signal but easier to integrate with mains)

The 2 mono tube amps deserve the best in pre amps so will upgrade to AR ref 3,or ref 5 and see what 2 channel really can do.

The pioneer LX71 i have is good but not flexible enough(no distance settings) so LX91 is another later upgrade(was N/A at time of bluray purchase but would have been more suited to my system(much better analog stages and set up for speakers etc).

I am a 2 channel guy too,so thats major focus,and last thing is to intergrate subs with 2 channel with analog or digital x over, as long as it does not degrade signal etc I will get advice etc when that time comes.

cheers Victor.

Edited by vic

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Too much emotion here & not enough logic.

Show me the evidence that the latest Generation Receivers produce any level of coloration or noise that is within the human auditory threshold levels for music listening purposes...

Put all your resources into the Speakers and Room Acoustics.

Function over Beauty. :cool:

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Too much emotion here & not enough logic.

Show me the evidence that the latest Generation Receivers produce any level of coloration or noise that is within the human auditory threshold levels for music listening purposes...

Put all your resources into the Speakers and Room Acoustics.

Function over Beauty. :cool:

I have followed your advice :cool: My percentage of spend on speakers to everything else is massive :cool: And Im about to lay down some coin on some bass traps.

I do think that some times people over complicate things though.

Been very happy with the sonics im getting out of the DHC-9.9

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And Im about to lay down some coin on some bass traps.

Hi Drizt,

Can you tell me more about these planned bass traps? Specifically who makes them and what problem frequencies are the designed to address in your current room?

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Function over Beauty. :cool:

Your Avatar seems to disagree with the concept.:cool:

Best

JA

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Hi Drizt,

Can you tell me more about these planned bass traps? Specifically who makes them and what problem frequencies are the designed to address in your current room?

Still working all that out. Going to be buying some dunlop foam ST35-200 at 2.2m x 800 on the hypotenus. Im going to do some final measurements tomorrow before confirming my order

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Still working all that out. Going to be buying some dunlop foam ST35-200 at 2.2m x 800 on the hypotenus. Im going to do some final measurements tomorrow before confirming my order

Still haven't confirmed my order but the prices look good. Im going to confirm tonight though after a double check on the measurements.

$300 each for 2200mm high by 800mm on the diagonal. Its still expensive I know, but much much cheaper than going through the usual audiophile stores for acoustic foam.

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Still working all that out. Going to be buying some dunlop foam ST35-200 at 2.2m x 800 on the hypotenus. Im going to do some final measurements tomorrow before confirming my order

Im still 'trying' to order these, but the supplier is not replying :)

Anyways after playing with things a bit more I'm of the opinion that the DHC-9.9 does a great job but a proper hifi pre / dac outshines it in ultimate terms. In realistic terms though, its doing a good enough job for me not to want to insert another bit of kit into my combined 2ch / ht setup to extract that little extra bit of performance just yet. Once the SGR pre comes out ill probably re-evaluate things then. I guess it depends if chancing those small % differences are worth the effort and or money to you.

Its all fun and games.

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Anyways after playing with things a bit more I'm of the opinion that the DHC-9.9 does a great job but a proper hifi pre / dac outshines it in ultimate terms. In realistic terms though, its doing a good enough job for me not to want to insert another bit of kit into my combined 2ch / ht setup to extract that little extra bit of performance just yet. Once the SGR pre comes out ill probably re-evaluate things then. I guess it depends if chancing those small % differences are worth the effort and or money to you.

Its all fun and games.

I'm not being funny, when I ask the question - have you done a DBT yet?

When you say outshines, in what ways is the Stello better? I dont doubt that it is, I'm just interested to hear what characteristics were/are different?

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I'm not being funny, when I ask the question - have you done a DBT yet?

When you say outshines, in what ways is the Stello better? I dont doubt that it is, I'm just interested to hear what characteristics were/are different?

Send me an email mate. I can't reply easily enough in here, theres a delay between when I hit reply and when you can read them. A conversation becomes impossible at that point.

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Im still 'trying' to order these, but the supplier is not replying :D

Anyways after playing with things a bit more I'm of the opinion that the DHC-9.9 does a great job but a proper hifi pre / dac outshines it in ultimate terms. In realistic terms though, its doing a good enough job for me not to want to insert another bit of kit into my combined 2ch / ht setup to extract that little extra bit of performance just yet. Once the SGR pre comes out ill probably re-evaluate things then. I guess it depends if chancing those small % differences are worth the effort and or money to you.

Its all fun and games.

Perhaps the differences are there, and in some situations one is better than the other, and in other situations the situation is reversed.

Did some testing tonight at around 75dB and 85dB and we both preferred the Integra for greater clarity, resolution and detail (perhaps all describing the same thing).

oz, again, if you want to discuss, shoot me an email. Being on moderation means I can't reply in time with the questions coming in.

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I'm all digital fed through an Onkyo PR-SC885. No complaints at all about the sound and I feel no need to go back to any kind of separate pre-amp.

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