Simon Wright1503559544 Posted November 22, 2003 Share Posted November 22, 2003 If the user can't operate it, he has to learn. It only takes time. Like all things in life-This is really an ignoramous statement. Everybody has to learn the new joys in life. I didn't say anything about not having to learn a new device; my issue is with the usability of it. Cars aren't a good example. The Porsche and the Holden, whilst differing somewhat in their design and engine power, are operated using the same basic principles. When was the last time you saw two VCR manufacturers use the same basic principles behind timer recording? Mobile phones are a good example. Chances are, you have a Nokia, and you find it fairly easy to use (if a little constrained by the unavoidable arkwardness inherent in small devices). Now sit yourself down with an LG or Phillips mobile. Yes, they still perform the same functions, but I bet you wouldn't enjoy using them. Yawn. The Topfield does all that. What that? Record--2-- channels while the third channel you can live replay, fast forward. Or live replay of 1 channel while recording another. Or fast forward of a live show whilst recording another. Or being able to cut commercials out on a recorded program. The Topfield can record two programs whilst playing back a third. It can fast-forward. It has stream editing. Maybe you were tired and missed the specs and understanding! Simon, as I mentioned "yes" it has to be user friendly, lets agree on that. The question is: will it be? Given that a significant majority of consumer electronics out there don't deserve to be called "user friendly", let's just say I'm not holding my breath. Cheers Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timmy Downawell Posted November 22, 2003 Share Posted November 22, 2003 Toppy, is the digital audio output Toslink Optical or RCA Coax? Based on the pic of the back of the satellite version I think it may only have TOSLINK (although the specs say S/PDIF for both units... hmm) FWIW, Jaycar sell converters (both S/PDIF->TOSLINK and vice versa) for $39.95 if you need to do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChessKing Posted November 22, 2003 Share Posted November 22, 2003 Hi Guys, I just want to clear up the recording capabilities that have been questioned in this topic. The TF5000PVRt can record 2 programs simultaniously while you are watching a ore recorded program or time shifting one of the currently recording programs... e.g. You can record ch#7 news and ch#9 news at 6pm while you are watching ch#10 news that you recorded at 5pm!!! No Probs!! Also you can edit recorded programs with the touch of a button To PVR Guys defence our specs that we have released thus far have been limited, all the capabilities of every feature will be listed in the manual as there is just too much to list on a spec sheet or brochure. Toppy HQ Does this mean I can record two programs simultaniously and watch a third channel live? David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timmy Downawell Posted November 22, 2003 Share Posted November 22, 2003 Does this mean I can record two programs simultaniously and watch a third channel live? No. Record two while watching something you recorded earlier - not a third channel (would need a third tuner to do what you suggest). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PVR guy Posted November 22, 2003 Share Posted November 22, 2003 Well simon you did say---- if it's not user friendly it's inferior. I was using cars as an example in repspects to a learner driver not being able to drive compentanly does this make the car whatever brand inferior???? Anyway,,,, Topfield HQ, where are these 5000's, where all waiting for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonymy01 Posted November 22, 2003 Share Posted November 22, 2003 Based on the pic of the back of the satellite version I think it may only have TOSLINK (although the specs say S/PDIF for both units... hmm)FWIW, Jaycar sell converters (both S/PDIF->TOSLINK and vice versa) for $39.95 if you need to do that. That is why I asked, because that sure looked like a Toslink optical connector on the Satellite version, but they both say "SPDIF" which I thought was electrical (I suppose SPDIF is really the digital standard, which can be optical or electrical, but you generally only see that term in reference to the electrical connector). If it is optical I won't have to buy anything... But Timmy, I was more after one of those toslink PCB mounts, since my Magnavox DVD player has the spot on the PCB for it (it is really just gnd, +5V and the same signal that goes to the coax connector feeding the Toslink), but thanks for the tip anyway, $40 probably isn't much more than buying the PCB one (although it would have to be externally powered, which means I am up to about 10 power leads hooked up around my HT setup!!) PVR_guy, I am sure there is a post here somewhere about when they are coming. I was told depending on customs/handling, they should be in Aus approx Friday next week, which means the following Monday or Tuesday, and that approx correlates to the post in here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonymy01 Posted November 22, 2003 Share Posted November 22, 2003 Give it ethernet capabilities like this one (Sat TV)http://www.dream-multimedia-tv.de/Bereiche...featurelist.php They do look interesting! The only thing I don't like is the LCD screen, you really can't read backlit LCDs. I *do* like the IR port to control other devices... you could come up with interesting setups where you get the box to turn on the TV or whatever... Interesting that it has the same processor and op system that was linked based on the machine PVR_guy mentions, and makes mention that the box software is actually open source.. These *will* be cool I think, but I am still very happy about my Toppy purchase (if it arrives!) I suppose the *negative* of open source is that someone might think they have developed something cool, but then when all the users start getting wierd probs, it will be a pain to work out which particular tweak it was that caused the prob. Having vendor controlled software releases is good, because the vendor goes thru great pains to make sure full testing is done and no new bugs introduced (I *so* hope that Topfield will be willing to fix bugs and bring out improvements on a regular basis). Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timmy Downawell Posted November 22, 2003 Share Posted November 22, 2003 That is why I asked, because that sure looked like a Toslink optical connector on the Satellite version, but they both say "SPDIF" which I thought was electrical (I suppose SPDIF is really the digital standard, which can be optical or electrical, but you generally only see that term in reference to the electrical connector). To my knowledge, the difference is that TOSLINK is Toshiba's optical output and S/PDIF is Sony/Panasonic's coaxial equivalent, although the latter term has got mangled in usage to mean any kind of digital output, in much the same way the terms S-Video and S-VHS have become intertwined (doesn't make it right). If you don't get an answer from Topfield then I'll confirm for you as soon as I get mine. Oh, and if you're able to add the TOSLINK output yourself then go for it. Jaycar's my first stop for anything like that... and I completely understand your powerboard situation, I have a PC and HT system all running off a double wall plate. Hasn't caught fire yet! I just thought it may save you the bother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonymy01 Posted November 22, 2003 Share Posted November 22, 2003 If you don't get an answer from Topfield then I'll confirm for you as soon as I get mine.re able to add the TOSLINK output yourself then go for it. Jaycar's my first stop for anything like that... Are you getting priority shipment over the rest of us ;-)... I have had mine on pre-order for 3months, so I'm first, OK! About the toslink adapter (ckt board variety) I don't believe it is avail in Aus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timmy Downawell Posted November 22, 2003 Share Posted November 22, 2003 Are you getting priority shipment over the rest of us ;-)... I have had mine on pre-order for 3months, so I'm first, OK! I bloody well better be! And you first?? I don't think so! About the toslink adapter (ckt board variety) I don't believe it is avail in Aus. Hmm, yeah, you might have to order in for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PVR guy Posted November 22, 2003 Share Posted November 22, 2003 Don't be excited by toslink, the manufacturers are not governed by any standard when manufacturing it. At least with Spdif,(coaxil) it's made to specs. BTW, The coax(spdif) in 99% of boxes can carry better bandwidth. Trust me on this, that's why you will see more and more going Toslink,-------it's cheaper/easier to make. Although not the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Wright1503559544 Posted November 22, 2003 Share Posted November 22, 2003 Well simon you did say---- if it's not user friendly it's inferior.I was using cars as an example in repspects to a learner driver not being able to drive compentanly does this make the car whatever brand inferior???? Of course not, but you've just proven that you simply don't understand what I'm talking about. Your example is an extremely bad one, as learning how to drive is a lot more than knowing how to operate the machine -- you are taught road rules, you are trained to become familiar with on-road situations, and you are helped to become confident handling a lethal and dangerous instrument. Cars are similar enough that a driver should be able to hop into just about any make or model and be able to operate it immediately, and feel comfortable within hours. Hmm, or can I infer from your comparison that people will need to visit STB school to learn how to use your set top box? I haven't even looked at the manual for my TEAC DV-B300, and I look forward to setting up my Topfield TF5000PVRt without even glancing at the documentation, though I probably will give it a skim-read at some point, just out of curiosity. Anyway,,,, Topfield HQ, where are these 5000's, where all waiting for? They're on their way, almost certainly to be within customers hands before December. Where is your STB, mister PVR guy? Cheers Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PVR guy Posted November 22, 2003 Share Posted November 22, 2003 What has that got to do with anything? I don't care if it's packing a 4-way Xeon motherboard -- if the user experience is inferior, it's an inferior product. SIMON, NOT AGAIN, how about this..........YOU WIN!!!!! Hypocracy as it's best, YES i DON'T UNDERSTAND YOU! You make these silly statements and I'm expected to read your mind,......BTW, notice How I've waisted everyones time BUT have quoted your full sentence including punctuation. as opposed to your pick and choose quotations. Maybe you should work for Ray----or what's her name from 7. They call it a Promo rather than journalism. as for my so called STB, I wouldn't haven't have clue, I'm guessing that it will be here in the future like all good technology. NOW---YOU WIN!!!! Leave me alone with the spite you breed, and go and choke on a "ohhhh so great" no need for a user manual or whatever you so PASSIONATELY love to HATE. Apologies to other forum members, this has gotten WAY out of hand. I retire from simons arguments. HE WINS!!!DELCARED ONCE AND FOR ALL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonymy01 Posted November 22, 2003 Share Posted November 22, 2003 Don't be excited by toslink, the manufacturers are not governed by any standard when manufacturing it.At least with Spdif,(coaxil) it's made to specs. BTW, The coax(spdif) in 99% of boxes can carry better bandwidth. Trust me on this, that's why you will see more and more going Toslink,-------it's cheaper/easier to make. Although not the best. Yes, but obviously you don't understand why I am keen for optical (I thought I explained it well enough). My amp has one coax input, and 3 (or is it 4?) optical inputs (Pioneer amp).... my DVD player only has coax out, so I am stuck if the Topfield is coax. Also, who cares about bandwidth... you would be lucky to ever see 1.5Mb/s from the digital out, and a bit of telephone wire will carry that.. optical *can* carry 10Gb/s (OK OK, for 1550nm single mode for telecommunications, the toslink using a bit of plastic isn't *quite* going to be the same :-) . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PVR guy Posted November 22, 2003 Share Posted November 22, 2003 tony, yes i did understand you........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Wright1503559544 Posted November 23, 2003 Share Posted November 23, 2003 NOW---YOU WIN!!!! Leave me alone with the spite you breed, and go and choke on a "ohhhh so great" no need for a user manual or whatever you so PASSIONATELY love to HATE. Stop playing to an audience, there's barely anyone reading this thread. For the people who are, they are perfectly capable of reading my posts without needing your distorted interpretation of them. I never said I hated user manuals. Actually, I really like appreciate them if they're written well. What I do hate are products that are so difficult to operate that the manual becomes necessary reading in order to competently operate the core functions of the device. Cheers Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bosustow Posted November 24, 2003 Share Posted November 24, 2003 Does this mean I can record two programs simultaniously and watch a third channel live? No. Record two while watching something you recorded earlier - not a third channel (would need a third tuner to do what you suggest). I have a Topfield 5000PVR sat box and I can record fox sports 1, and fox sports 2, and then watch fox 8 all at the same time, as long as the channels are on the same transponder. I know the 5000PVR-T is different, so it may be able to record 7 and 9 and perhaps watch another channel in 7 or 9, which at the momemnt would only be EPG etc, but in the future hopefully they will multi cast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mich1503559502 Posted November 24, 2003 Share Posted November 24, 2003 these are questions from someone who has never had sat tv before; if you have fox via satellite, and get yourself a topfield sat box for example, is it simply a matter of putting the fox-supplied sat box aside, putting the fox sim in the topfield and away you go? do foxtel have any problem with this? further.. if this is the case.. why cant you buy satellite PVRs at major retailers like you can terrestrial STBs? similarly are there any cable STBs out there with HDD that are suitable with fox cable? i realise this type of box would require a mpeg encoder but still.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
physwizz Posted November 25, 2003 Share Posted November 25, 2003 The linux based system does look interesting, but it is still a SD tuner so it is not exactly my dream system.I am still waiting for a HD twin tuner PVR with a decent recording capacity and connectivity to a PC. Ditto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bosustow Posted November 25, 2003 Share Posted November 25, 2003 if you have fox via satellite, and get yourself a topfield sat box for example, is it simply a matter of putting the fox-supplied sat box aside, putting the fox sim in the topfield and away you go? Yes, you can do this do foxtel have any problem with this? yes, but not much they can do if you legally pay for the box, and then put the card into another box further.. if this is the case.. why cant you buy satellite PVRs at major retailers like you can terrestrial STBs? as above, Foxtel don't like it similarly are there any cable STBs out there with HDD that are suitable with fox cable? i realise this type of box would require a mpeg encoder but still.. not sure on that one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerLeo62 Posted November 25, 2003 Share Posted November 25, 2003 Anyway,,,, Topfield HQ, where are these 5000's, where all waiting for? Where oh, where is the PVR that you refer to? At least the TF5000PVR has a history of being in production in the Sat form... I love reading posts from arrogant pr*cks who quote vapour-ware as if it is the "second coming of Christ" - really makes my day... Every forum has one (arrogant pr*ck) - the DBA forum certainly gets it's fair share from time to time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TV4FREE Posted November 25, 2003 Share Posted November 25, 2003 Anyway,,,, Topfield HQ, where are these 5000's, where all waiting for? Where oh, where is the PVR that you refer to? At least the TF5000PVR has a history of being in production in the Sat form... Hi Tiger leo, I believe pvr guy was talking about the relook 3000, if you'd like to see the satellite version, see the link below (forums rules, I have a vested interest.) relook 3000 The WORLDS first Linux O/S twin tuner PVR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonymy01 Posted November 25, 2003 Share Posted November 25, 2003 Bugger, why was it when I went to the Relook hompage (I think? at http://www.dgstation.co.kr ) a couple of days ago, the relook 3000 had no equip manual and no software upgrades listed, I hit refresh about 10 times to check too (and I *am* referring to the 3000, the 3000T obviously doesn't have anything there yet)? So the T version is paperware, the Sat version looks like it isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PVR guy Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 QUOTE]I love reading posts from arrogant pr*cks who quote vapour-ware as if it is the "second coming of Christ" - really makes my day... Every forum has one (arrogant pr*ck) - the DBA forum certainly gets it's fair share from time to time... Hey TigerLeo62, are you looking in the mirror when you say that? Who's an arrogant Pr%ck? If you have nothing nice to say turn off your keyboard. I think from the way you have just made those stupid comments, you think you are Christ! or some higher authority! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scorchie™ Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 Let's all go have a beer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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