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TF5000PVR-T ANOTHER Week Delay!


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Not an excuse, but that was probably their best guess at the time it was made.

Most likely something simply came up subsequent to the time that guess was made which has left them in the situation that something had to slip. Either the date, the features, the quality, or the price (due to more labour being put into it over a short period) would have had to change, and they've gone with moving the date out a bit.

Context/disclaimer: I have been writing computer software for a living for over 20 years.

ted.h.

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I see a pattern with TF posting things, then remaining deathly silent when the release date repeatedly slips.

If TF want to be seen to be proactive, this also includes letting us know WHY things have been delayed.

Topfield, Paigecomm, how about more information about EXACTLY what's going on?

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The Paigecomm guy I spoke to was just as keen to get them in as I was, he couldn't (wouldn't?) explain the delay but did sympathise with my anguish (I have had it on pre-order for over 3 months now).

I suppose it is only 1.5 weeks to go (there goes my first experiment of turning the World Cup into a VCD/DVD for my friend)..

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well,

I wonder about topfield, I'm new to this forum, but I have been reading about the greats of topfield. And I agree with the tommy. BTW tommy, paigecom is topfield.

I really wonder why people would bother when there's more out there, don't be disillusioned gents/ladies, there is better to come..... real soon from what they tell me....real soon.

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Thank you come again.

Your welcome Timmy,

Your comments regarding my posterior surpases any idea I had regarding the people of this forum.

May my rectum point you in a nice direction so as you may feel liberated from the world of dissapointment.

I've done a quick cut and paste for you of some specs that have been informed to me are being created for people like yourself. These will be here very soon, for the ultra hardcore freak, no doubt this will bring him to the surface.

Can't post pics, if people like they can PM with email for pics.

Advanced Features

Application and Expansion

LINUX O/S enables ultimate application and expansion to fulfill the customer's need.

Max. Two Channels Recording and one Prerecorded Program Playback

Enjoy advanced watching and recording TV program

Almost Unlimited Channel Memory

Minimum 20,000 Channels (Based on HDD Size)

Enhanced Search Channel Option

Search by Network

Search by All scanning

Unlimited Trick Play

Ultimate Trick Play on Real Time Live Program/ Recording Program/ Playback of Prerecorded

Program.

Smart EPG By Auto-update. EPG shows Program information of All

EPG without channel change while watching one channel

Program Search by Genre in EPG

Enhanced Recording Plan by Timer Setting/ In the EPG

Enhanced Playback by freely skip Ads./ Editing Prerecorded Program

USB Connection to PC

Basic features

Multilingual User Interface

S/PDIF for Dolby Digital Streaming Out

OTA S/W download

256 Color OSD

2 DVB Common Interface Slots

Subtitle & Teletext

Serial (RS-232C) Interface

TV/ VCR Scart Interface

1 Composite Video/ 1-Stereo Audio Interface

Variable HDD Size applicable up to 200 GB or Above

Time Shift on real time live program

Instant Replay/ Instant Jump Forward

Installation Wizard for Quick and Easy Installation

Specs being Adjusted to suit OZ.

CPU Type IBM’s PowerPC405

Speed 225MIPS / 350MIPS

Data/Instruction Cache 8KB/16KB

Tuner(twin) & Channel Input Connector 2 x IEC169-2 female

Loop through Connector 2 x IEC169-2 male

Frequency Range VHF 170MHz to 239MHz, UHF 470 to 860MHz

Waveform COFDM

Symbol Rate 1 ~ 7MS/s

Loop through Out Impedance 75 ohms nominal

Loop through Gain 0 dB Typical / ± 3dB Max

MPEG Transport Stream

& A/V Decoding Transport Stream ISO/IEC 13818-1 Specification

Profile & Level MPEG-2 MP@ML

Input TS Data Rate 90Mbit/S max.

Aspect Ratio 4:3, 16:9 with pan vector

Video Resolution 720 x 576(PAL), 720 x 480(NTSC)

Audio Decoding MPEG-1 Audio Layer 1,2

Audio Mode Stereo, Dual Channel, Joint Stereo, Mono

Sample Rate 32, 44.1, and 48KHz

Memory Flash Memory 8MB

SDRAM 24MB

A/V & Data In/Out TV SCART 1 x SCART

VCR SCART 1 x SCART

RCA Video x 1, Audio L/R X1

Data Interface 9 Pin D-Sub, RS232C, Baud Rate 115200 Max, USB

Local Storage Type ATA - 3

Size 80Gbyte or larger

Power Supply Input Voltage AC90-240V, 50Hz/60Hz

Type Linear PWM

Power Consumption 50W max. (Under 7W max. at stand-by mode)

Protection - Separate Internal Fuse and Chassis

- Grounding The Input shall have lightning

or Electric Shock Protection

Physical Specification Size (W x H x D) 320mm x 58mm x 240mm

Weight About 4 .0kg

Environment Operating Temperature + 5 C ~ + 55 °C

Storage Temperature - 40 C ~ + 65 °C

:blink:

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That doesn't appear to have anything the Topfield doesn't. Besides, specifications are far less important than usability. People who've played with the Topfield say that it's intuitive to operate. I'd rather pay a grand for a quality product that works really well than pay $700 for a similarly-specified product that is irritating.

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Mr Wright, how wrong?

Maybe you missed the IBM processor bit Simon.

Maybe you missed Linux, meaning an Operating system bit.

Maybe you don't understand the full potential that a processor can do over any standard chipped STB will ever do.

If all thats too irritaing, as you quite quickly have proclaimed.

Maybe you missed recording--- 2-- channels at once whilst replay of a live program, recording including trick play, i.e fast forward of a live program whilst recording 2 programs. etc etc, this thing is unlimited, it all comes down to the imagination of the software. Anything is possible.

As for $700 my friend, I think this will be far superior to any topfield, your price might be way off the mark.

Nothing similar here Mr Wright.

ahhhhh! People love to jump.

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That Linux-based PVR box does look interesting. At the risk of inflaming anything, here is why FWIW I won't be buying one (and of course these reasons very likely DON'T apply to lots of people):

  • The added complexity of the box makes it more important (IMHO) than for a "normal" STB that the software is developed here in Australia, rather than in any overseas country where they don't have access to our actual TV signals (and the peculiar mix of things that DTV in Australia has).
  • It doesn't (?yet?) have an established Australian brand/distributor associated with it, and without being able to sell in volume risks being just another interesting product that might cease to be supported long before I'd be prepared to move on to something else.
  • I simply want an _appliance_ box for our main TV, NOT something that is inherently expandable/programmable. My wife and kids are not in the slightest interested in an "enthusiast" kind of setup which is tinkered with regularly on the main TV in the house.
  • If I did want such a box (ie if I had the motivation to actually extend/customise it myself), I think I'd be putting together a HTPC myself based on a platform of commodity parts that I _already_ had a development/debugging environment set up for (which is not the case right now for me for PowerPC+Linux).

I don't think of the price difference between (say) $700 and (say) $1000 as significant in the global scheme of things. If PVR functionality isn't worth $1000 to you, then it isn't worth $700 either (and the converse).

The biggest problem seems to me that not enough people are interested in PVR capability (or in truth digital TV) in Australia _at_all_ - rather than whether the Linux-based PVR box above has merit over the Topfield (or Strong or Thomson) PVRs. FWIW I think it is a good thing for the industry as a whole - and for people already using digital TV - that more boxes in this category are appearing. "A rising tide lifts all the boats" as they say, and competition will give them _all_ added impetus to fix the various issues that will come up in operation of their boxes.

ted.h.

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Thanks for bringing sanity to the forum Ted!

I was thinking the same thing. I used my PC as a DVD player for over a year (running long svid cables and SPDIF, putting a home made IR receiver in), and when that Magnavox with SCART came out at $188 (all other SCART players were >$1000) I quickly made the purchase, and couldn't be happier. No stuffing around with the setup or anything, it is plugged in and works (very well too...).

The box that PVR_guy points to doesn't even mention RGB pass thru on the SCART, one of the very first points it raves about is irrelevant in Aus "Almost Unlimited Channel Memory Minimum 20,000 Channels (Based on HDD Size) ". wow, with, what, probably 10channels if that avail to most people, 20,000 must mean this box is better (/sarcasmOFF).

I suppose having it all in a box that sits near your TV is better than PC, but I understand the point you are making.

Also, those specs say "RS232C"... read around the net about people complaining about the slowness of trying to shift a few hundred meg of MP3s in/out of their IPOD with USB1.0 and you will soon see that having only RS232c for the outside world interface is going to be a real pain in the butt (the USB1.0 thing is not the IPOD problem, it is what many people have on thier PCs).

Also, just because it is a linux OS does not mean it has an ordinary CPU. The first DVD players to support DIVX had a linux based OS, and I don't see too many groups around the world developing anything for them.

My DVD player is MIPS-X, and over the 2 years I have learnt a lot about programming in MIPS, and I can tell you that just about anything is possible with this, and, oh, the Topfield box is MIPS...

A language is a language, it means little if no-one is going to get involved in tweaking (FYI, there is probably only 7 or 8 active people in the world tweaking MIPs for ESS based DVD players, and so the going is *very* slow, but certainly features are being added bit by bit).

I suppose I am getting off topic a bit...

PVR_Guy, I am still extremely happy about my decision to jump in and pre-order the Topfield box. I can't really see anything your "non-existant paper-ware" box does over and above the already proven Topfield box?

Regards

Tony (not tommy!)

big edit: Ok, I looked at that page again, and see USB.. but still maintain my "paperware" status on the box, given the sat version and the terestial version have no manual or software avail, and not mentioned anywhere on the net. Oh well, can you get them here in a week and a half? Since your DBA handle looks awfully like you are going to be the salesperson for them...

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I can understand why people are interested in the Linux based PVR, however for myself (who works everyday with a 40,000+ user network) I really can't be bothered with worrying about Linux @ home.

I want an appliance - that works - that's simple - that won't have my wife bugging me as to why something isn't working

Hence I have ordered a Topfield - all those crazy German's cant be wrong :blink:

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My Dear Tony, and Mr Harper,

I ask you, when you buy anything related to this DTV industry, do you ever expect to upgrade it via software when things "get better"? If not then I'm wasiting my time talking with you and you'd prefer to go out and buy brand new for the "latest"

If you have a STB that is forever enhancing and can only get better by the imagination of the developers and they issue new -greater- better software for it regualarly, and you'd like to add more and more abilities to your STB WITHOUT having to buy a new one, then this is for you. Yes you can wait for the manufacturer to develop, but why not have your average Jow bloe that can do just as good a job do it half the time and more regularly.

No salesman here Tony, just an enthusiast that knows when you spend a lot of money on these things, we should not be limited to a manfacturers ability to release new software, why not have fellow enthusiats creating changes for the better. And if it's as easy as plugging in a USB cable and hitting the download button. I'm pretty sure my 14 year old will have fun when the new-greater-software is released on a more regular basis than what you'd expect from a manufacturer.

And once you have such a software that blows any other STB out of the water, why not just let it sit there on the shelf for the wife to use.

Tony, see timmy's link for software, and I dont' think they'll be here in a week, like your topfield.

Marks, Mr Harper------ These come with remotes and anybody can press a record button.

Usuability is what will make this box, I doubt a manufacturer would bother making something no one would buy or can't use.

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Maybe you missed the IBM processor bit Simon.

Maybe you missed Linux, meaning an Operating system bit.

Maybe you don't understand the full potential that a processor can do over any standard chipped STB will ever do.

What has that got to do with anything? I don't care if it's packing a 4-way Xeon motherboard -- if the user experience is inferior, it's an inferior product.

Maybe you missed recording--- 2-- channels at once whilst replay of a live program,  recording including trick play, i.e fast forward of a live program whilst recording 2 programs.

Yawn. The Topfield does all that.

this thing is unlimited, it all comes down to the imagination of the software. Anything is possible.

...so long as you're a programmer. Anyone with the inclination to do a bit of programming for their STB will have equal amounts of success with the Topfield. For example, a Topfield user has ported ID Software's DOOM engine. Sure, the raw processor power in the Topfield doesn't match the IBM chip, but you don't need all that much processor power to do almost exclusively I/O-centric tasks.

Remember, its job is to record television programs, not analyse protein strains.

As for $700 my friend, I think this will be far superior to any topfield, your price might be way off the mark. Nothing similar here Mr Wright.

You still haven't offered any example about how your device can be a better PVR than the Topfield. Because once I sit it down next to the television, all I care about is its usefulness, not the promise of usefulness.

Cheers

Simon

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I can understand why people are interested in the Linux based PVR, however for myself (who works everyday with a 40,000+ user network) I really can't be bothered with worrying about Linux @ home.

I want an appliance - that works - that's simple - that won't have my wife bugging me as to why something isn't working

Hence I have ordered a Topfield - all those crazy German's cant be wrong  :rolleyes:

Good point! As much as I'd love to fool around with a Linux PVR, my wife has a low tolerance for adding complexity of operation where its not needed! Another consideration would be the boot up time for a Linux box, or even waking from hibernation would I expect take longer than turning on a dedicated PVR.

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Mr simon

if the user experience is inferior, it's an inferior product.

Is that comparible to a learner driver getting a new porsche or your favourite holden/falcon and because he' s only learning therefore it makes the product inferior---I'm gobsmacked at your comment. If the user can't operate it, he has to learn. It only takes time. Like all things in life-This is really an ignoramous statement. Everybody has to learn the new joys in life.

Yawn. The Topfield does all that.

What that? Record--2-- channels while the third channel you can live replay, fast forward. Or live replay of 1 channel while recording another. Or fast forward of a live show whilst recording another. Or being able to cut commercials out on a recorded program. The list is endless, however the Topfield stops as per the quotation below.

Quote form topfield

"Record over 40hrs on the 80gig HDD, twin tuners allow you to record one program while you watch another or record two programs simultaneously, picture in picture, MP3 Jukebox player, Slide show viewer, connect to your PC via USB 2.0 Port."

Maybe you were tired and missed the specs and understanding!

Remember, its job is to record television programs, not analyse protein strains.

So why are you claiming the topfield is so great if thats all we are doing here.

You still haven't offered any example about how your device can be a better PVR than the Topfield. Because once I sit it down next to the television, all I care about is its usefulness, not the promise of usefulness.

Get an L plate and I'll teach you how to drive so you don't get lost or stall that hill start.

Simon, as I mentioned "yes" it has to be user friendly, lets agree on that.

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What that? Record--2-- channels while the third channel you can live replay, fast forward. Or live replay of 1 channel while recording another. Or fast forward of a live show whilst recording another. Or being able to cut commercials out on a recorded program. The list is endless, however the Topfield stops as per the quotation below.

Quote form topfield

"Record over 40hrs on the 80gig HDD, twin tuners allow you to record one program while you watch another or record two programs simultaneously, picture in picture, MP3 Jukebox player, Slide show viewer, connect to your PC via USB 2.0 Port."

I think you got the specs confused yourself on your paper-ware box.

You make it out like it has 3 tuners. "Record--2-- channels while the third channel you can live replay"

Look at the bottom of the topfield specs:

"Concurrently dual recoding and playing"

Doesn't this say it will record 2 programs and playback a stored one (ok, it could just mean you can record and playback)?

Or even this: "Capable of time-shifting & recoding while recoding other service" (couple of sics in there).

Ok, so the specs are a little light/ambiguous for both boxes.

If you go to the topfield site now, you will see there is a happy bunch of people filling PVR5000t boxes at the manufacturing warehouse.

If you go to the Topfield Korea website, you can read the manual for the PVR5000, and learn such things as "you can record the time-shift buffer", it has weekday, weekend, weekly, everyday program settings (cool!), cutting certain regions out the stored recordings (cool!)..

Ok, I just found a page that clarifies things a bit:

"During recording, Time Shifting is possible only in the recorded channel.

You can use Time Shifting while recording another service or record two services at the same time."

I am not trying to put you down, I just want you/everyone here to understand that the PVR5000T is not paper-ware, does what most of us want, and is coming in a little over a week, and doesn't look like your offering has much at all different to the proven Topfield offering.

Regards

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Hi Guys,

I just want to clear up the recording capabilities that have been questioned in this topic.

The TF5000PVRt can record 2 programs simultaniously while you are watching a ore recorded program or time shifting one of the currently recording programs... e.g. You can record ch#7 news and ch#9 news at 6pm while you are watching ch#10 news that you recorded at 5pm!!! No Probs!! Also you can edit recorded programs with the touch of a button :blink:

To PVR Guys defence our specs that we have released thus far have been limited, all the capabilities of every feature will be listed in the manual as there is just too much to list on a spec sheet or brochure.

Toppy HQ

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I think the debate over this box and that box could rage for days....

However this thread is about the Topfield TF5000PVR. I've got one on order - I am bloody glad as I have waited along time for this type of product.

I suspect that it will last me for 2-3 years (maybe longer) and then I may be interested in shopping around for the then very mature "linux" solutions.

But alas as I have stated before, if it's not a simple-to-use appliance, it will not make it to my home theatre area.

I certainly don't want support-calls from home whilst I am at work - hence my favouritism for appliance's - like the strong, topfield, teac, etc.

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I certainly don't want support-calls from home whilst I am at work - hence my favouritism for appliance's - like waited along time for this type of product.

I suspect that it will last me for 2-3 years (maybe the strong, topfield, teac, etc.

Also to PVR Guys defence, having a linux solution doesn't necessarily mean the box is going to be stubborn or difficult to use. An OS is an OS I suppose, and it will be so customised that you won't really know that linux is running in the back end.

Like I said a few posts back, the first generations of DVD player out there that supported DIVX are all Linux based, the end user would never know.

But where my thoughts differ from PVR guys thoughts is that even though it is linux, the development tools would have to be released for "joe public tweaker" to start modding it substantially, and just because it has a linux back end doesn't mean a whole lot if only a few people in the world buy them (the PVR5000 is being sold in a few places by the looks of it, and the tweaking tools are slowly flowing).

Just look at ESS based DVD players, running MIPS-X code, there is a whole bunch of tweaks that can be achieved with these (look at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/onefirmwareforall for example).

Regards

Tony

http://www.tonyspage.dynodns.net

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Toppy, is the digital audio output Toslink Optical or RCA Coax?

If it is coax, looks like I will have to hack my DVD player to put a toslink on the PCB...anyone know any good places to buy them from?

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If the user can't operate it, he has to learn. It only takes time. Like all things in life-This is really an ignoramous statement. Everybody has to learn the new joys in life.

I didn't say anything about not having to learn a new device; my issue is with the usability of it.

Cars aren't a good example. The Porsche and the Holden, whilst differing somewhat in their design and engine power, are operated using the same basic principles. When was the last time you saw two VCR manufacturers use the same basic principles behind timer recording?

Mobile phones are a good example. Chances are, you have a Nokia, and you find it fairly easy to use (if a little constrained by the unavoidable arkwardness inherent in small devices). Now sit yourself down with an LG or Phillips mobile. Yes, they still perform the same functions, but I bet you wouldn't enjoy using them.

Yawn. The Topfield does all that.

What that? Record--2-- channels while the third channel you can live replay, fast forward. Or live replay of 1 channel while recording another. Or fast forward of a live show whilst recording another. Or being able to cut commercials out on a recorded program.

The Topfield can record two programs whilst playing back a third. It can fast-forward. It has stream editing.

Maybe you were tired and missed the specs and understanding! :blink:

Simon, as I mentioned "yes" it has to be user friendly, lets agree on that.

The question is: will it be? Given that a significant majority of consumer electronics out there don't deserve to be called "user friendly", let's just say I'm not holding my breath.

Cheers

Simon

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Toppy, is the digital audio output Toslink Optical or RCA Coax?

Based on the pic of the back of the satellite version I think it may only have TOSLINK (although the specs say S/PDIF for both units... hmm)

FWIW, Jaycar sell converters (both S/PDIF->TOSLINK and vice versa) for $39.95 if you need to do that.

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Hi Guys,

      I just want to clear up the recording capabilities that have been questioned in this topic.

    The TF5000PVRt can record 2 programs simultaniously while you are watching a ore recorded program or time shifting one of the currently recording programs... e.g. You can record ch#7 news and ch#9 news at 6pm while you are watching ch#10 news that you recorded at 5pm!!! No Probs!! Also you can edit recorded programs with the touch of a button :blink:

To PVR Guys defence our specs that we have released thus far have been limited, all the capabilities of every feature will be listed in the manual as there is just too much to list on a spec sheet or brochure.

Toppy HQ

Does this mean I can record two programs simultaniously and watch a third channel live?

David

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Well simon you did say---- if it's not user friendly it's inferior.

I was using cars as an example in repspects to a learner driver not being able to drive compentanly does this make the car whatever brand inferior????

Anyway,,,, Topfield HQ, where are these 5000's, where all waiting for?

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Based on the pic of the back of the satellite version I think it may only have TOSLINK (although the specs say S/PDIF for both units... hmm)

FWIW, Jaycar sell converters (both S/PDIF->TOSLINK and vice versa) for $39.95 if you need to do that.

That is why I asked, because that sure looked like a Toslink optical connector on the Satellite version, but they both say "SPDIF" which I thought was electrical (I suppose SPDIF is really the digital standard, which can be optical or electrical, but you generally only see that term in reference to the electrical connector).

If it is optical I won't have to buy anything... But Timmy, I was more after one of those toslink PCB mounts, since my Magnavox DVD player has the spot on the PCB for it (it is really just gnd, +5V and the same signal that goes to the coax connector feeding the Toslink), but thanks for the tip anyway, $40 probably isn't much more than buying the PCB one (although it would have to be externally powered, which means I am up to about 10 power leads hooked up around my HT setup!!)

PVR_guy, I am sure there is a post here somewhere about when they are coming. I was told depending on customs/handling, they should be in Aus approx Friday next week, which means the following Monday or Tuesday, and that approx correlates to the post in here.

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Give it ethernet capabilities like this one (Sat TV)

http://www.dream-multimedia-tv.de/Bereiche...featurelist.php

They do look interesting! The only thing I don't like is the LCD screen, you really can't read backlit LCDs.

I *do* like the IR port to control other devices... you could come up with interesting setups where you get the box to turn on the TV or whatever...

Interesting that it has the same processor and op system that was linked based on the machine PVR_guy mentions, and makes mention that the box software is actually open source..

These *will* be cool I think, but I am still very happy about my Toppy purchase (if it arrives!)

I suppose the *negative* of open source is that someone might think they have developed something cool, but then when all the users start getting wierd probs, it will be a pain to work out which particular tweak it was that caused the prob. Having vendor controlled software releases is good, because the vendor goes thru great pains to make sure full testing is done and no new bugs introduced (I *so* hope that Topfield will be willing to fix bugs and bring out improvements on a regular basis).

Regards

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That is why I asked, because that sure looked like a Toslink optical connector on the Satellite version, but they both say "SPDIF" which I thought was electrical (I suppose SPDIF is really the digital standard, which can be optical or electrical, but you generally only see that term in reference to the electrical connector).

To my knowledge, the difference is that TOSLINK is Toshiba's optical output and S/PDIF is Sony/Panasonic's coaxial equivalent, although the latter term has got mangled in usage to mean any kind of digital output, in much the same way the terms S-Video and S-VHS have become intertwined (doesn't make it right).

If you don't get an answer from Topfield then I'll confirm for you as soon as I get mine.

Oh, and if you're able to add the TOSLINK output yourself then go for it. Jaycar's my first stop for anything like that... and I completely understand your powerboard situation, I have a PC and HT system all running off a double wall plate. Hasn't caught fire yet! :blink: I just thought it may save you the bother.

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If you don't get an answer from Topfield then I'll confirm for you as soon as I get mine.

re able to add the TOSLINK output yourself then go for it. Jaycar's my first stop for anything like that...

Are you getting priority shipment over the rest of us ;-)... I have had mine on pre-order for 3months, so I'm first, OK!

About the toslink adapter (ckt board variety) I don't believe it is avail in Aus.

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Are you getting priority shipment over the rest of us ;-)... I have had mine on pre-order for 3months, so I'm first, OK!

I bloody well better be! :P And you first?? I don't think so! :blink:

About the toslink adapter (ckt board variety) I don't believe it is avail in Aus.

Hmm, yeah, you might have to order in for that.

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Don't be excited by toslink, the manufacturers are not governed by any standard when manufacturing it.

At least with Spdif,(coaxil) it's made to specs. BTW, The coax(spdif) in 99% of boxes can carry better bandwidth.

Trust me on this, that's why you will see more and more going Toslink,-------it's cheaper/easier to make. Although not the best.

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Well simon you did say---- if it's not user friendly it's inferior.

I was using cars as an example in repspects to a learner driver not being able to drive compentanly does this make the car whatever brand inferior????

Of course not, but you've just proven that you simply don't understand what I'm talking about.

Your example is an extremely bad one, as learning how to drive is a lot more than knowing how to operate the machine -- you are taught road rules, you are trained to become familiar with on-road situations, and you are helped to become confident handling a lethal and dangerous instrument.

Cars are similar enough that a driver should be able to hop into just about any make or model and be able to operate it immediately, and feel comfortable within hours.

Hmm, or can I infer from your comparison that people will need to visit STB school to learn how to use your set top box? I haven't even looked at the manual for my TEAC DV-B300, and I look forward to setting up my Topfield TF5000PVRt without even glancing at the documentation, though I probably will give it a skim-read at some point, just out of curiosity.

Anyway,,,, Topfield HQ, where are these 5000's, where all waiting for?

They're on their way, almost certainly to be within customers hands before December. Where is your STB, mister PVR guy?

Cheers

Simon

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What has that got to do with anything? I don't care if it's packing a 4-way Xeon motherboard -- if the user experience is inferior, it's an inferior product.

SIMON,

NOT AGAIN, how about this..........YOU WIN!!!!!

Hypocracy as it's best, YES i DON'T UNDERSTAND YOU!

You make these silly statements and I'm expected to read your mind,......BTW, notice How I've waisted everyones time BUT have quoted your full sentence including punctuation. as opposed to your pick and choose quotations. Maybe you should work for Ray----or what's her name from 7.

They call it a Promo rather than journalism.

as for my so called STB, I wouldn't haven't have clue, I'm guessing that it will be here in the future like all good technology.

NOW---YOU WIN!!!! Leave me alone with the spite you breed, and go and choke on a "ohhhh so great" no need for a user manual or whatever you so PASSIONATELY love to HATE.

Apologies to other forum members, this has gotten WAY out of hand. I retire from simons arguments. HE WINS!!!DELCARED ONCE AND FOR ALL. :blink:

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Don't be excited by toslink, the manufacturers are not governed by any standard when manufacturing it.

At least with Spdif,(coaxil) it's made to specs. BTW, The coax(spdif) in 99% of boxes can carry better bandwidth.

Trust me on this, that's why you will see more and more going Toslink,-------it's cheaper/easier to make. Although not the best.

Yes, but obviously you don't understand why I am keen for optical (I thought I explained it well enough).

My amp has one coax input, and 3 (or is it 4?) optical inputs (Pioneer amp).... my DVD player only has coax out, so I am stuck if the Topfield is coax.

Also, who cares about bandwidth... you would be lucky to ever see 1.5Mb/s from the digital out, and a bit of telephone wire will carry that.. optical *can* carry 10Gb/s (OK OK, for 1550nm single mode for telecommunications, the toslink using a bit of plastic isn't *quite* going to be the same :-) .

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