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Interesting you say that CRTs have the best large screen quality, I agree entirely. I think many people get blown away by the aesthetics of plasmas etc without realising there are higher-quality alternatives.

I totaly agree, I can't see why people spend $5000+ on a SD plasma screen (which then sits on a cabinent, taking up as much room as a Rear Pro) when they could get a rear pro with MUCH better PQ and HD support for alot less!

One of my relatives is wanting to buy a plasma eventually, for their home theatre! Needless to say I tell him constantly that a projector is the way to go, and it even stops the little ones from damaging the screen! (Assuming ceiling mount)

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The older Sony 57" RPTV has now dropped again!!!

It originally started at $11,000 and now on Sony's new web site it has a RRP of only $5,999 (I'm glad I did not rush out and get one when they first hit the market! and I am very sorry for all those lucky soles that could afford to buy one when they hit the market!)

Everyone must remember, as time moves forward true HD displays WILL become available and affordable! Let’s hope with Sony and Intel now starting to build LCOS micro displays, we should see affordable 1920x1080 displays hit the market at CRT prices from all manufactures.

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  • 1 month later...

Is the Hitachi still stuck with component as the only choice of HD input, just as the Toshiba is? From reading the specs it would seem so, please correct me if I'm wrong. I really wish one of the manufacturers would stop neglecting this market in that regard and start putting DVI into rear pros, let alone RGBHV as my Sony 86" CRT has.

I'm a little slow for a change and only noticed the new Hitachi 4:3 models in the Herald guide today, alerting me to that fact the 16:9s had been out for a while. I am also one of those people that have read the glowing reviews of the US Hitachi's and their great out of the box performance. I see from Owens examination of them they can be calibrated well, though it surprises me that they seem to need more than their US counterparts out of the box, which makes me a little suspicious of how closely these models may actually be related. In doing my usual round of investigations the US range is quite broad and I would not be surprised, especially looking at the price point of our model, that's it's based closer to one of the F or S series lower tier models that retail between $US1800 and $US2200 respectively. If so that would probably account for any gap in performance compared to the top end US Hitachi X series.

In the meantime I'll persist with my Tosh 57" till there's something out that takes us to 1920x1080i. I'll be a shame if they don't end up bring out a Toshiba LCOS set for our market, but as Owen said there could be HD DLP.

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DVI input on CRT based displays is less then optimal for several reasons.

CRT displays are analogue and using a DVI interface simply moves the critical digital to analogue conversion from one place to another.

Not many DVD players or other devices have DVI output so most people using DVI in Australia are using a PC as the source.

Good quality video cards have better DAC’s (Digital to Analogue Converters) then the DAC’s fitted to most TV’s.

Since most HD CRT TV’s do not have VGA inputs a VGA to Component transcoder is required. This is an analogue conversion and is not a big problem. With a good quality transcoder transfer from video card to TV introduces very little loss. The use of a transcoder also has the advantage of allowing very flexible resolution and timing options (e.g. no overscan). In the US the DVI interconnect is renowned for compatibility problems and limited resolution options and there are other problems with the different specifications for PC DVI and the DVI system used in HD TV’s.

So for CRT displays connected to a PC, VGA should be the interconnect of choice, not DVI.

For digital fixed pixel displays, (LCD, DLP, Plasma) DVI is the best interconnect option especially if 1:1 pixel mapping is used (feeding the display its exact native resolution so no internal scaling takes place).

The Hitachi does not have DVI but for the reasons stated above this is of no consequence.

I took a risk and purchased the 57” Hitachi and after obtaining the service manual and doing a full calibration I can say that the Hitachi is a very impressive performer when fed its native 1080i resolution over component inputs. Better then any other large display I have seen except maybe the Toshiba LCOS.

The Toshiba LCOS is officially dead and replaced by second generation HD DLP.

Don’t expect to see one hear until 2005 or latter.

It’s not possible to judge how closely related the Aus model Hitachi is to the US models. The S500 is probably close. Picture quality does not vary much between any of the US models regardless of price.

Hitachi made some very strange choices with the default setup of these TV’s.

In particular the use of very ugly edge enhancement and an overly red color balance.

Both can be fixed in the service menu.

There is also a very good 117 point convergance system.



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I'm using a key digital transcoder now after replacing my Audio Authority that died once. I'm suprised to hear such a positive slant on our rearpros not having DVI inputs. I've always felt the transcoder result was a compromise, especially when you're trying to get specific resolutions and timings to work properly. In the US review of the Sony WEGA XBR 34" which is built very closely to our 86cm WEGA model, the DVI input is considered a good addition as you can see in the excerpt from the review in The Perfect Vision magazine :

Next, I switched inputs from component video to DVI. I immediately noticed a considerable improvement in detail (at various contrast settings). To perform an A/B comparison I devised the following wiring scheme to allow for the fact that D-VHS decks do not have DVI outputs (only FireWire) and conversely that the 34XBR910 does not have FireWire input (only DVI). For component-video output I directly connected the D-VHS VCR YPbPr outputs to the Sony’s component-video input. To produce a DVI signal I connected a FireWire cable from the D-VHS to the Samsung SIR-T165 HDTV tuner, then connected the tuner’s DVI output to the Sony 34XBR910’s DVI input. In DVE there is a segment showing a couple at a table in a restaurant. When I viewed it through the DVI connection, the crow’s feet around the actress’s eyes were clearly visible; when I switched to component video, the lines around her eyes disappeared, as if by a kind of electronic facelift. The Sony engineer later commented on the component outputs of his D-Theater deck: “The –3dB point was at about 17MHz.” This would explain the loss of detail. I could not get verification by press time from the deck’s manufacturer. According to my research, component HD inputs and outputs contain filters at 34MHz for the Y channels and 17MHz for the Pr and Pb channels. The signal traveling through the two sets of filters would result in a lower color frequency response that could contribute to a loss of detail. DVI is uncompressed digital data and does not get filtered at the source box or at the display device. Regardless of the cause(s), the conclusion is to use the DVI input for the sharpest picture.

You're probably right Owen regarding the Aus model Hitachi's equalency, there's a Cnet.com review of the US 57" S model and it seems close to what you've described of the out of the box performance of your set.

It's probably about time I got a Toshiba service rep out to do a proper once over of my set, since it was never done on install. I had a go at the service menu convergence way back when I got my 57" mid last year, but I'd rather get a qualified tech in to do it. I don't think it's far off at the moment, but still it's piece of mind.

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  • 6 months later...

Hey Guys,

Sorry to pull up a (really) old topic, but at the moment I'm looking at the Sony KPFW46M31 which I have pretty much made my mind up about. I can get it at JB Hifi for $2750 /w free Delivery.

But now, I've been searching and a LOT of people are saying that the Panasonic is the best Rear Pro TV to get for around that price. The main thing which I like in the Sony is the 720p which I will be using with my Xbox with an American HD Adapter which the Panasonic does not have.

A lot of people are saying that it has a better picture and the Anti-Refective screen is a BIG plus tho.

Any idea's?

Thanks Guys.

Be Nice, this is my first post :blink:

[EDIT] Also. the remote is a BIG thing for me. The Sony remote is very stylish and well constructed. I have not seen the Pana remote.

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  • 2 weeks later...
Anyone with a serious HTPC would want a DVI interface, not an RGBHV interface..

Both would be nice, but given the choice I'd take DVI any day..

LG 60" and Sammy 61" are still my choice of RPTV for now..

Still waiting for LCOS though :blink:


I have given up waiting for LCOS. After seeing a stunning Toshiba about 2 years ago, the technology has obviously proved not suitable. I believe that Toshiba has dropped the technology.

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The Toshiba’s LCOS may be dead, but LCOS technology lives on in the new Sony SXRD.

See here:


I gave up waiting on the Toshiba a year ago and purchased a CRT RPTV, and I am very happy with it.

Resolution is near as good as the LCOS, image smoothness at least as good and black levels much better.

I strongly disagree with the quote: “Anyone with a serious HTPC would want a DVI interface”

I have a VERY serious, cutting edge HTPC and have done for 4 years.

If I had a digital display, I would want DVI, but with an analogue display (CRT), DVI is definitely NOT required.

To compare the LG and Samsung LCD models with the Toshiba LCOS is sacrilege.

They are not even close to being in the same class, but a CRT RPTV can be.

I am seriously considering the Sony SXRD, as it will be the first digital display I consider a worthy replacement for a CRT RPTV.

Unfortunately, if anyone wants one, they will have to import it from the US, as there is almost no chance we will see any in Oz before 2006



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  • 2 weeks later...

I strongly disagree with the quote:  “Anyone with a serious HTPC would want a DVI interface”

I have a VERY serious, cutting edge HTPC and have done for 4 years.

If I had a digital display, I would want DVI, but with an analogue display (CRT), DVI is definitely NOT required.

Wow.. talk about being taken out of context. Perhaps I should have qualified what I was posting about. The thread was about 2 new digital displays. I was talking about using DVI from an HTPC with a digital display - a year ago.

This thread is about a digital display so I didn't think it needed to be said.

Of course if you are using a CRT, there's no point having DVI because you can't avoid the DAC.

Sheesh - I can't believe I'm being misquoted a year later..



EDIT: I guess that's what happens when old threads get resurrected - most people don't think to look at the dates :blink:

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Actually, this thead was actually about the "new" (now not so new) sony rear projection, which is an analouge display. It is a CRT based rear projection, not a DLP or LCD based one.

So yes he was right about the DVI not being needed (I don't think the sony had DVI in anyway) but it is kind of a dead thread.

Still a very nice set!

edit: I just browesed back through the thread. The post that brought back up the bit about the HTPC first is on page 3 at the bottom. It quotes an old post from the beginning of the thread, that was posted over a year ago!

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