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Sorry pietro,

I am in Sydney.

I dont even go that far on my christmas holidays. :blink:

I could send you the service info for my Toshiba. Chances are they are the same.

Owen

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You should try it...I came here from Sydney 5 years ago.

That's generous of you...you say "chances are they are the same" but what if they are not???

It will be interesting to hear your comments on the Hitachi when you get it. You made no mention of its convergence......

I too had a 4:3 Toshiba rptv and the difference the non-reflecting screen makes is huge, in my opinion. The reflections before used to drive me nuts.

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As long as you can get into the service menu and pull up the convergence grid and adjust it the rest of the menus don’t matter.

The Aus models are similar to the US models. I was able to get into the menu before I got the service manual.

As for the Hitachi, the reflective screen does not bother me and if it does I can remove the protective screen. This is still a good modification for the non reflective screen sets as it removes an extra unwanted layer of plastic from the screen.

The convergence and other functions on the Hitachi are more adjustable then on the Toshibas so the there is more tweak ability with the Hitachi. The Hitachi also seems to be the same internally as the US models so there is a lot of information available. In the US the Hitachi and Mitsubishi rear pro's are regarded as the best. We don’t get the Mitsubishi’s out here unfortunately.

Regards,

Owen

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Just had a look at the Hitachi website...the set looks good, no RRP given. It's also supposed to have auto digital convergence. That will be interesting.

However the Tosh will do me (it will have to) until something fabo comes along at an affordable price. (LCOS???, projectors that don't need completely dark room??)

I am definitely interested in getting that Tosh service menu info but I don't want you to go to a lot of trouble, and I'm willing to pay. Do you have any thoughts?

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Uuumm, the LCOS. I saw the 57" Toshiba LCOS rear pro at the 2003 Sydney CES and was blown away by it. Its the best big screen display I have ever seen. I hassled Castel about buying one and they said that they may be getting them in about august 2004 (this was back in October 2003). Price was going to be about $12,000 plus. I was getting ready to buy one. I had even considered going to the US and bringing one back.

Last month Toshiba announced that the second generation LCOS TV's had been canceled and that they were going to go with DLP technology. That screwed my plans.

The true HD DLP sets from any manufacturer are not expected to market until late 2004 in the US and could therefore not be expected here until mid to late 2005 and they will not be cheap. I just can’t wait that long. I can get two years use out of the Hitachi CRT before anything worthwhile comes out to replace it. The current LCD sets look like crap IMHO. The DLP sets are much better but are way to small and not HD. A good 60" HD plasma may be ok when available but at a stupid price.

I have even considered getting a good DPL front projector and a lenticular screen and making my own rear projector by mounting the screen in my lounge room wall and setting up the projector in my garage to project onto the back of the screen. This would cost about $20,000 and be a lot of work for an uncertain result.

CRT is still the best option for big screen HD and this situation does not look like changing any time soon.

I would be glad to help you out with your Toshi if I can.

Maybe I could PDF the relevant parts of my manual and email them to you, no payment required. :blink:

Regards,

Owen

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Interesting you say that CRTs have the best large screen quality, I agree entirely. I think many people get blown away by the aesthetics of plasmas etc without realising there are higher-quality alternatives.

Am I the only person who does not know what IMHO stands for???

I will email you via this site about the pdf files. Thanks.

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Am I the only person who does not know what IMHO stands for???

Well you might be, AFAIK, because I was puzzled by these abbreviations until I found a PDA site that had all this stuff on it. It's now downloaded on to my Palm Pilot.

I'm usually the last one to find out anything.

10Q for making my day.

(ROFL).

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pietro,

Just so you don’t feel left out.

IMHO =In My Humble Opinion

AFAIK= As Fare As I Know

LOL= Laugh Out Loud

ROFL= Rolling On Floor Laughing

I am sure you are NOT the only one :blink:

Owen

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AFAICT - As Far As I Can Tell

AFAIK - As Far As I Know

AFK - Away From Keyboard

AIUI - As I Understand It

AOL - America Online

ATM - At The Moment

B2W - Back To Work

BAK - Back At Keyboard

BBFN - Bye Bye For Now

BBL - Be Back Later

BFD - Big F***ing deal!!!

BFN - Bye, For Now

BG (Usually in Brackets) - Big Grin

BRB - be right back

BRH - be right here

BTA - But Then Again

BTDT - Been There, Done That

BTFM - Beats the Funk out of Me

BTSOOM - Beats the s*** out of me

BTW - By The Way

BWG - Big Wide Grin

CIS - CompuServe Information Service

CP - Copy protection

CU L8R - See You Later

CYA - See ya

CYAIH - Cya in hell.

EG (Usually in brackets) - Evil Grin EOF - End Of File

EOS - End of Story.

F2F - Face to Face

FAQ - Frequently Asked Questions

FCS - For Christ's Sake

FDROTFL - Falling Down Rolling On The Floor Laughing

FM - Fine Magic

FOAF - Friend Of A Friend

FOTCL - Falling Off The Chair Laughing

FRO - F*** right off!!!

FUA - Frequently Used Acronyms

FUBAR - F***ed Up Beyond All Recognition

FWIT - For what it's worth

FWIW - For What It's Worth

FYEO - For Your Eyes Only

FYI - For Your Information

G (Usually in brackets) - Grin

GAL - Get a life!

GD&WVVF - Grinning, ducking, and walking very, very fast

GIYODS - Get It Your Own Damn Self

GMTA - Great Minds Think Alike

GR&D - Grinning running & ducking

HAND - Have a nice day

HTH - Hope this helps.

IAE - In any event

IANAL - I Am Not A Lawyer, also IANA... such as CPA

ICOCBW - I Could, Of Course, Be Wrong

IIRC - If I Remember Correctly

IITYWTMWYBMAD - If I Tell You What This Means Will You Buy Me A Drink?

ILY - I Love You

IMCO - In my considered opinion

IMHO - In My Humble Opinion

IMNSHO - In My Not So Humble Opinion

IMO - In My Opinion

IMPO - In my pious opinion

IMSHO - In My So Humble Opinion

IOHO - In Our Humble Opinion

IOW - In Other Words

IRL - In Real Life

ISP - Internet Service Provider

ISTM - It Seems To Me

ITC - It's the coolest

ITILY - I Think I Love You

IUD - Insert Usual Disclaimers

IYDM - If You Don't Mind

IYDMMA - If You Don't Mind Me Asking

IYKWIM - If You Know What I Mean

IYKWIMAITYD - If You Know What I Mean And I Think You Do

IYSWIM - If You See What I Mean

JFYI - Just for your information

KISS - Keep It Simple Stupid

KWIM - Know What I Mean?

LMHO - Laughing my head off

LOL - Laughing Out Loud

LOTI - Laughing On The Inside

LZ - Loser!

NBD - No Big Deal

NFW - No F***ing Way

NJTH - Not Just Thinking Here

NOYB - None Of Your Business

NP - No Problem

NRN - No Reply Necessary

NTYMI - Now That You Mention It

OIC - Oh, I See

OTFM - Only the Facts, Ma'am

OTL - Out To Lunch

OTOH - On The Other Hand

PB - Potty Break

PEKUSH - Press Every Key Until Something Happens

PITA - Pain In The A**

PMFJI - Pardon Me For Jumping In

PMJI - Pardon My Jumping In

PPL - People

PTMM - Please Tell Me More

PWYP - Practice What You Preach

R - Are

RIP - Requiescat In Pace = Rest In Peace

ROFL - Rolling On the Floor Laughing

ROFLASTC - Rolling On The Floor Laughing And Ccaring The Cat

ROFLMAO - Rolling On the Floor Laughing My A** Off

ROFLMBO - Rolling On The Floor Laughing My Butt Off

ROFLPMP - Rolling On The floor laughing, peeing my pants!

ROTM - Right On The Money

RS - Real soon

RSN - Real Soon Now [which may be a long time coming]

RSVP - Répondez S'il Vous Plaît

RTFM - Read The F***ing Manual

RTFMSH - Read The F**ing Manual S*** Head

RUMF? - aRe yoU a Male or Female?

**** - Sure Happy It's Thursday

SIG - Special Interest Group

SITD - Still in the dark

SNAFU - Situation Normal, All F***ed Up

SOE - Silly/Stupid Operator Error

SOL - Sooner or Later...

SOS - Same Old S***

SOS - Save Our Souls

SWINGO - She Who Must Be Obeyed (The Wife)

TAFN - That's All For Now

TANSTAAFL - There ain't no such thing as a free lunch

TCOY - Take Ccare Of Yourself

TIA - Thanks In Advance (also AtDhVaAnNkCsE)

TIC - Tongue In Cheek

TLA - Three Letter Acronym (such as this)

TPTB - The Powers That Be

TTBOMK - To The Best Of My Knowledge

TTFN - Ta Ta For Now

TTYL - Talk To You Later

TVM - Thanks Very Much

TWF - That was fun

U - You

VBG (Usually in brackets) - Very Big Grin

WAMKSAM - Why Are You Kids Staring At Me?

WB - Welcome Back

WBS - Write Back Soon

WGAS - Who gives a S***!?!?

WRT - With Respect To; concerning

WTF - What/Where/Who The F***

WTG - Way To Go

WYSIWYAG - What You See Is What You Almost Get

WYSIWYG - What You See Is What You Get

WYWH - Wish You Were Here

XXX - Three/many-many kisses (girl talking)

YAFIYGI - You Asked For It, You Got It

YDAGWYW - You Don't Always Get What You Want

YGWYPF - You Get What You Pay For

YHM - You Have Mail

YMBJ - You must be joking

YMMV - Your Mileage may vary

YSWUS - Yea, Sure Whatever You Say!

(:-) Bald

(:-D Big Mouth

:-! Smoker

:-# Kiss

:-$ Put Your Money Where Your Mouth Is

:-( Sad

:'-( Crying

:-) 8 Dolly Parton

:-) Happy

:-{) Moustache

:-| Frown

:-| Disgusted

:-o Surprised

:-X My Lips Are Sealed

;-) Wink

;-@ Swearing / Angry

[:-) Wearing A Walkman

|-o Very Surprised

=:-) Dickhead

===:-D Don King

143 I Love You

3:-o Cow

8-) Wearing Glasses

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Interesting you say that CRTs have the best large screen quality, I agree entirely. I think many people get blown away by the aesthetics of plasmas etc without realising there are higher-quality alternatives.

I totaly agree, I can't see why people spend $5000+ on a SD plasma screen (which then sits on a cabinent, taking up as much room as a Rear Pro) when they could get a rear pro with MUCH better PQ and HD support for alot less!

One of my relatives is wanting to buy a plasma eventually, for their home theatre! Needless to say I tell him constantly that a projector is the way to go, and it even stops the little ones from damaging the screen! (Assuming ceiling mount)

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The older Sony 57" RPTV has now dropped again!!!

It originally started at $11,000 and now on Sony's new web site it has a RRP of only $5,999 (I'm glad I did not rush out and get one when they first hit the market! and I am very sorry for all those lucky soles that could afford to buy one when they hit the market!)

Everyone must remember, as time moves forward true HD displays WILL become available and affordable! Let’s hope with Sony and Intel now starting to build LCOS micro displays, we should see affordable 1920x1080 displays hit the market at CRT prices from all manufactures.

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  • 1 month later...

Is the Hitachi still stuck with component as the only choice of HD input, just as the Toshiba is? From reading the specs it would seem so, please correct me if I'm wrong. I really wish one of the manufacturers would stop neglecting this market in that regard and start putting DVI into rear pros, let alone RGBHV as my Sony 86" CRT has.

I'm a little slow for a change and only noticed the new Hitachi 4:3 models in the Herald guide today, alerting me to that fact the 16:9s had been out for a while. I am also one of those people that have read the glowing reviews of the US Hitachi's and their great out of the box performance. I see from Owens examination of them they can be calibrated well, though it surprises me that they seem to need more than their US counterparts out of the box, which makes me a little suspicious of how closely these models may actually be related. In doing my usual round of investigations the US range is quite broad and I would not be surprised, especially looking at the price point of our model, that's it's based closer to one of the F or S series lower tier models that retail between $US1800 and $US2200 respectively. If so that would probably account for any gap in performance compared to the top end US Hitachi X series.

In the meantime I'll persist with my Tosh 57" till there's something out that takes us to 1920x1080i. I'll be a shame if they don't end up bring out a Toshiba LCOS set for our market, but as Owen said there could be HD DLP.

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DVI input on CRT based displays is less then optimal for several reasons.

CRT displays are analogue and using a DVI interface simply moves the critical digital to analogue conversion from one place to another.

Not many DVD players or other devices have DVI output so most people using DVI in Australia are using a PC as the source.

Good quality video cards have better DAC’s (Digital to Analogue Converters) then the DAC’s fitted to most TV’s.

Since most HD CRT TV’s do not have VGA inputs a VGA to Component transcoder is required. This is an analogue conversion and is not a big problem. With a good quality transcoder transfer from video card to TV introduces very little loss. The use of a transcoder also has the advantage of allowing very flexible resolution and timing options (e.g. no overscan). In the US the DVI interconnect is renowned for compatibility problems and limited resolution options and there are other problems with the different specifications for PC DVI and the DVI system used in HD TV’s.

So for CRT displays connected to a PC, VGA should be the interconnect of choice, not DVI.

For digital fixed pixel displays, (LCD, DLP, Plasma) DVI is the best interconnect option especially if 1:1 pixel mapping is used (feeding the display its exact native resolution so no internal scaling takes place).

The Hitachi does not have DVI but for the reasons stated above this is of no consequence.

I took a risk and purchased the 57” Hitachi and after obtaining the service manual and doing a full calibration I can say that the Hitachi is a very impressive performer when fed its native 1080i resolution over component inputs. Better then any other large display I have seen except maybe the Toshiba LCOS.

The Toshiba LCOS is officially dead and replaced by second generation HD DLP.

Don’t expect to see one hear until 2005 or latter.

It’s not possible to judge how closely related the Aus model Hitachi is to the US models. The S500 is probably close. Picture quality does not vary much between any of the US models regardless of price.

Hitachi made some very strange choices with the default setup of these TV’s.

In particular the use of very ugly edge enhancement and an overly red color balance.

Both can be fixed in the service menu.

There is also a very good 117 point convergance system.

Regards,

Owen

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I'm using a key digital transcoder now after replacing my Audio Authority that died once. I'm suprised to hear such a positive slant on our rearpros not having DVI inputs. I've always felt the transcoder result was a compromise, especially when you're trying to get specific resolutions and timings to work properly. In the US review of the Sony WEGA XBR 34" which is built very closely to our 86cm WEGA model, the DVI input is considered a good addition as you can see in the excerpt from the review in The Perfect Vision magazine :

Next, I switched inputs from component video to DVI. I immediately noticed a considerable improvement in detail (at various contrast settings). To perform an A/B comparison I devised the following wiring scheme to allow for the fact that D-VHS decks do not have DVI outputs (only FireWire) and conversely that the 34XBR910 does not have FireWire input (only DVI). For component-video output I directly connected the D-VHS VCR YPbPr outputs to the Sony’s component-video input. To produce a DVI signal I connected a FireWire cable from the D-VHS to the Samsung SIR-T165 HDTV tuner, then connected the tuner’s DVI output to the Sony 34XBR910’s DVI input. In DVE there is a segment showing a couple at a table in a restaurant. When I viewed it through the DVI connection, the crow’s feet around the actress’s eyes were clearly visible; when I switched to component video, the lines around her eyes disappeared, as if by a kind of electronic facelift. The Sony engineer later commented on the component outputs of his D-Theater deck: “The –3dB point was at about 17MHz.” This would explain the loss of detail. I could not get verification by press time from the deck’s manufacturer. According to my research, component HD inputs and outputs contain filters at 34MHz for the Y channels and 17MHz for the Pr and Pb channels. The signal traveling through the two sets of filters would result in a lower color frequency response that could contribute to a loss of detail. DVI is uncompressed digital data and does not get filtered at the source box or at the display device. Regardless of the cause(s), the conclusion is to use the DVI input for the sharpest picture.

You're probably right Owen regarding the Aus model Hitachi's equalency, there's a Cnet.com review of the US 57" S model and it seems close to what you've described of the out of the box performance of your set.

It's probably about time I got a Toshiba service rep out to do a proper once over of my set, since it was never done on install. I had a go at the service menu convergence way back when I got my 57" mid last year, but I'd rather get a qualified tech in to do it. I don't think it's far off at the moment, but still it's piece of mind.

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  • 6 months later...

Hey Guys,

Sorry to pull up a (really) old topic, but at the moment I'm looking at the Sony KPFW46M31 which I have pretty much made my mind up about. I can get it at JB Hifi for $2750 /w free Delivery.

But now, I've been searching and a LOT of people are saying that the Panasonic is the best Rear Pro TV to get for around that price. The main thing which I like in the Sony is the 720p which I will be using with my Xbox with an American HD Adapter which the Panasonic does not have.

A lot of people are saying that it has a better picture and the Anti-Refective screen is a BIG plus tho.

Any idea's?

Thanks Guys.

Be Nice, this is my first post :blink:

[EDIT] Also. the remote is a BIG thing for me. The Sony remote is very stylish and well constructed. I have not seen the Pana remote.

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  • 2 weeks later...
Anyone with a serious HTPC would want a DVI interface, not an RGBHV interface..

Both would be nice, but given the choice I'd take DVI any day..

LG 60" and Sammy 61" are still my choice of RPTV for now..

Still waiting for LCOS though :blink:

-Auldar

I have given up waiting for LCOS. After seeing a stunning Toshiba about 2 years ago, the technology has obviously proved not suitable. I believe that Toshiba has dropped the technology.

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The Toshiba’s LCOS may be dead, but LCOS technology lives on in the new Sony SXRD.

See here:

http://www.dtvforum.info/index.php?showtopic=9286

I gave up waiting on the Toshiba a year ago and purchased a CRT RPTV, and I am very happy with it.

Resolution is near as good as the LCOS, image smoothness at least as good and black levels much better.

I strongly disagree with the quote: “Anyone with a serious HTPC would want a DVI interface”

I have a VERY serious, cutting edge HTPC and have done for 4 years.

If I had a digital display, I would want DVI, but with an analogue display (CRT), DVI is definitely NOT required.

To compare the LG and Samsung LCD models with the Toshiba LCOS is sacrilege.

They are not even close to being in the same class, but a CRT RPTV can be.

I am seriously considering the Sony SXRD, as it will be the first digital display I consider a worthy replacement for a CRT RPTV.

Unfortunately, if anyone wants one, they will have to import it from the US, as there is almost no chance we will see any in Oz before 2006

Regards,

Owen

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  • 2 weeks later...
I strongly disagree with the quote:  “Anyone with a serious HTPC would want a DVI interface”

I have a VERY serious, cutting edge HTPC and have done for 4 years.

If I had a digital display, I would want DVI, but with an analogue display (CRT), DVI is definitely NOT required.

Wow.. talk about being taken out of context. Perhaps I should have qualified what I was posting about. The thread was about 2 new digital displays. I was talking about using DVI from an HTPC with a digital display - a year ago.

This thread is about a digital display so I didn't think it needed to be said.

Of course if you are using a CRT, there's no point having DVI because you can't avoid the DAC.

Sheesh - I can't believe I'm being misquoted a year later..

*shrug*

-Auldar

EDIT: I guess that's what happens when old threads get resurrected - most people don't think to look at the dates :blink:

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Actually, this thead was actually about the "new" (now not so new) sony rear projection, which is an analouge display. It is a CRT based rear projection, not a DLP or LCD based one.

So yes he was right about the DVI not being needed (I don't think the sony had DVI in anyway) but it is kind of a dead thread.

Still a very nice set!

edit: I just browesed back through the thread. The post that brought back up the bit about the HTPC first is on page 3 at the bottom. It quotes an old post from the beginning of the thread, that was posted over a year ago!

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