Sony's new Rear Pros!

[yossarian17]

Sorry for the off topic comments but I'm thinking about getting the new Panasonic 47P800H which a few people have commented in this thread as being a good buy.

From the panasonic web site I note theres a slight difference in the specs to the previous model (47P600H) in that the 600H features a "twin digital comb filter (PAL)" while the 800H makes no mention of this feature.

Is this significant?

Any other feedback on this make and model?

Can any one recomend a service reputable service agent in Perth to setup and calibrate a RPTV and at what price?

Thanks for any response on the above

[m00j]

The Sony 57"was not an old model but a new HD model.

The Toshiba 57" HD is the best thing I have seen to date.

I am saying that the new HD 57" sony has been out for a while, wheras the smaller ones have just come out (last month I think). There is a huge difference in picture quality between the smaller ones and the 57"

yossarian17,

It says on their page that it has the D Y/C Digital Comb Filter (NTSC) still, so I would say they just left it off. Also, the 800 is meant to have better PQ than the 600 and is $1000 cheaper, so the 800 is a better option (the 600 is no longer made). As for price, go to the nearby stores and ask them for their best price, try the larger places as they often have the buying power to get a cheaper price. I purchased my TX-47P800H for $3400 with a Toshiba HDSTB for $740 and free delivery (from the other side of Brisbane!)

So shop around and you can find a bargain!

[Owen]

Pietro,

I just rang Castel and asked to buy a service manual.

They sold me a photocopied one for about $35-$40 and even faxed me some of the convergence info for free. I can’t complain about that.

Even without the manual I managed to find enough information on the web to adjust everything I needed to, but I am not a novice and have done calibration before.

Whatever you do DON’T adjust anything without writing down the original settings BEFORE you start. That way you can always go back to where you started.

It is wise to know what you want to adjust and why before you do it.

When I purchase a new 57” HD set I will require a FULL service manual be supplied at time of purchase or no sale. That puts the pressure on the retailer to get hold of one to close the sale.

Regards,

Owen

[pietro1503559499]

Owen are you a normal consumer or are you involved in the industry? Van from Castel told me they would not give out the info as it was for service people only.

I am after the info for the WH18PG models.....that's not what you got is it?

[Owen]

I am a normal customer. I got a manual for my 43N9U in 2000 or 2001.

Maybe you can talk a local service agent into ordering a manual.

You may also be able to find some info on line.

Many Toshiba models use similar service menus.

Here are some links:

http://myweb.accessus.net/~090/how2adj.html

http://www.keohi.com/keohihdtv/brandspecif...shiba_tips.html

http://www.bus.ucf.edu/cwhite/theater/ToshibaTips.htm

One thing I do recommend is to disable SVM ( scan velosity modulation).

Now I am determined to demand a manual be provided on sale or they can kiss my business goodbye. It is NOT optional.

Owen

[pietro1503559499]

That is very odd. Would you remember who you spoke to at Castel to get the service info?

Can you also tell me...to do service convergence, is it necessary to go into the innards of the set or is everything done via the remote?

[Owen]

It was to long ago to remember names.

Almost all adjustments are done from the remote including all convergence.

You just need to get into the service menu. (service mode)

Regards,

Owen

[Hyrax]

FYI..

I have a Toshiba 57" WS HD RP I purchased around 6 months ago. I have had a lot on my plate so am only getting my "stuff" together now to do the calibration.

I could find SFA info on this particular model, being ozzy etc.. I managed to get into the service menu from info on a US / UK site for a non ozzy Toshy. I think it may have been Keoshi. I had a quick look, then exited.

I am now attempting to get 'sorted' properly. The user menu offers only 9 point convergence which is pittiful.

The service offers far greater in all resolutions. Now, to get hold of a service manual. *sigh*

I should also mention that the service menu is far from user friendly. You definately need a service manual or similar.

[pietro1503559499]

You are right Hyrax...the user convergence is hopeless. Apart from this small problem the set is wonderful.

Are you intending to contact Castel to try to get a service manual...if you do could you please post the results here. I had no luck at all but Owen managed to get one. Maybe it depends on who you speak to......

[Owen]

Well now I have seen the 57” HD Hitachi and can say that Hitachi’s reputation for making among the best rear projectors is untarnished. But to look at one in a retailer you would definitely not think so.

When I first saw the Hitachi displaying the channel 9 HD loop I thought there was something wrong with the decoder box. The picture was, well…. in a word, BAD. Contrast was as expected, way to high but more importantly the picture lacked detail and exhibited a very nasty artificial edge enhancement and sparkling white high lights. Altogether a very ordinary performance and a great disappointment to me. I had expected great things as Hitachi rear projectors are acclaimed in the US as being top class.

Well I am not that easily discouraged and could not believe that Hitachi would market such an obviously poor performer. I had the salesman produce the owners manual and I went though the “picture” menu and adjusted contrast, down to about 12, brightness down to 50 and sharpness to 0. This looked better but still very lacking in detail and with that nasty edge enhancement. I them moved on to another page of the menu where I found what I was looking for. There are two settings in this menu that can destroy the picture quality of this TV. VM (velocity modulation) and CTI (colour transient improvement) both are ON but default. VM, a kind of edge enhancer is common on CRT sets and is not always user disable able. I had to disconnect a power supply connection in my Toshiba to disable this useless “feature”. CTI seems to be a Hitachi thing and I don’t know what it is supposed to do but is I liked it better off.

After disabling VM and CTI the Hitachi came to life and produced a very nice smooth detailed and naturale picture very similar to the much smaller LG DLP set next to it but with much better blacks of course. The only problem remaining was the colour. Hitachi sets are known to have an overly warm colour setting or “red push” and this one sure did. This can be easily fixed, but would require a service menu adjustment to RDRIVE and RCUT to correct the grey scale. No big deal but it is not meant to be user adjustable.

Like all CRT rear projectors, a full service level calibration will improve picture quality substantially over what I saw in the retailer so never judge a book by its cover and never judge a CRT rear projector buy what you see in a retailer.

It remains a complete mystery why Hitachi would deliver a TV with such poor default settings.

Is the Hitachi a match for the Toshiba? Well I cannot say for sure as I could not directly compare them. But I would say that they are very close. The Toshiba has better colour adjustment out of the box and has a none reflective screen (a big issue for some). The Hitachi has a reflective screen just like a Plasma and my current Toshiba. I personally prefer the appearance of the Hitachi cabinet.

If the reflective screen is a problem it can be removed if you don’t have kids. It is only a protective cover for the lenticular screen. Many fastidious owners of rear projectors remove the screen protector to improve image quality and eliminate reflections.

There is one compelling advantage to the Hitachi and that is price.

The Hitachi can be obtained for about $4600 AUD or less if you really push. That makes it about $1500 CHEAPER then the Toshiba and makes it the best value big screen HD TV I have seen by fare. There are no other contenders in the 57” category.

God knows how cheap the 47” model is.

Which one will I buy?

Since there is effectively very little difference between them after calibration (which I can do) and the reflective screen is not a big problem for me I shall be ordering the Hitachi. I was quit prepared to spend $7000 on a TV but I cant see any need to do so now.

The Hitachi will tide me over for the next couple of years until the next generation of big screen HD DLP projectors or something else comes along.

Regards,

Owen

[dyates69]

Do you guys with rptv's manage to achieve a better blue focus than what I tend to see in the shops? This is the main thing putting me off a crt based rptv at the moment. I can't stand the silly blue fringing around every white object I see.

I understand manufacters defocus blue for enhanced brightness but I personally don't find it acceptable. Is it easy to adjust on the new Toshiba's for example? They are among the worst I have seen for this artifact and the higher the source resolution the worse the effect.

Also is anyone aware of an rptv in Australia with larger than 7" crt's? Mitsubishi in the US apparently have a 9" unit. I'd be curious to see that.

Thanks

[bizzibee]

I can't stand the silly blue fringing around every white object I see.

What you are seeing is the affect of a badly Convergence RPTV. Most CRT RPTV I've seen in shops look terrible! The three CRTs in a RPTV need to be converged correctly to show the best possible picture. These RPTV have a User Menu in which "you" the owner can adjust the Convergence. However sometimes you need to go into the Service Menu to fix the Convergence if it is really out of adjustment.

A Convergence needs to be done and saved for each different signal input, such as 480, 480p, 576i, 576p, 720p & 1080i. Once the convergence is done correctly you won't see this problem. However CRT RPTV still need the convergence tweaked now and then to keep the picture at it's best.

Mark

[dyates69]

Hi Mark

Thanks for the reply. I am familiar with convergence, I have an 8" fptv. But it's not this I'm seeing. I see soft blue either side of a white line, not only on one side which would be due to convergence issues. I suspect the tubes in these sets are so cheap they can't achieve a good blue focus, but would like to be proven wrong. I used to have a 7" fptv and it couldn't focus blue half as well as my 8", but was still a lot better than any crt rptv I've seen in Australia.

Thanks again

[bizzibee]

Hi dyates69,

I understand now what your talking about now. Sorry for misunderstanding you. My Mistake!

I too have a 8" Front Projector (NEC XG-1350). Yes perhaps the blue focus is the problem. However the Blue tubes is the hardest colour to focus so maybe it's just that it hasn't been do correctly. Then again these units may be using 7" CRTs without Electromagnetic Focus. Most likely they have 7" CRTs with Electrostatic Focus.

Mark

[Owen]

I would love to see the Mitsubishi 75” with 9”guns. I would buy one even if it was expensive. I doubt that you can buy a better display then that at any price but there is almost no chance of ever getting one in Aus.

As for blue focus, well it is always the problem child. But it is possible to get near perfect focus and convergence. I have done so on my 7” gun Toshiba SD 43” TV. It shows a nice clean WHITE convergence grid without blue fringing. I run my Windows computer desktop on it at 1024x768 with nice readable text.

I expect no less from a new HD model. They can have up to 100 adjustment points on the convergence grid.

High contrast levels will increase the tendency for the electron guns to flare. This is more of a problem for front projectors as they must run very hard to produce enough light output. It is also a sign of tube ageing. When they get old and tired they loose focus.

If you need perfect text then a digital display is preferable but then you will loose the shadow detail and deep blacks that only CRT’s can provide

Regards,

Owen

[pietro1503559499]

Owen I don't suppose you live near NE Victoria and would be prepared to do a service convergence on my TV if I paid you well?

O well, it was a nice thought.

[Owen]

Sorry pietro,

I am in Sydney.

I dont even go that far on my christmas holidays.

I could send you the service info for my Toshiba. Chances are they are the same.

Owen

[pietro1503559499]

You should try it...I came here from Sydney 5 years ago.

That's generous of you...you say "chances are they are the same" but what if they are not???

It will be interesting to hear your comments on the Hitachi when you get it. You made no mention of its convergence......

I too had a 4:3 Toshiba rptv and the difference the non-reflecting screen makes is huge, in my opinion. The reflections before used to drive me nuts.

[Owen]

As long as you can get into the service menu and pull up the convergence grid and adjust it the rest of the menus don’t matter.

The Aus models are similar to the US models. I was able to get into the menu before I got the service manual.

As for the Hitachi, the reflective screen does not bother me and if it does I can remove the protective screen. This is still a good modification for the non reflective screen sets as it removes an extra unwanted layer of plastic from the screen.

The convergence and other functions on the Hitachi are more adjustable then on the Toshibas so the there is more tweak ability with the Hitachi. The Hitachi also seems to be the same internally as the US models so there is a lot of information available. In the US the Hitachi and Mitsubishi rear pro's are regarded as the best. We don’t get the Mitsubishi’s out here unfortunately.

Regards,

Owen

[pietro1503559499]

Just had a look at the Hitachi website...the set looks good, no RRP given. It's also supposed to have auto digital convergence. That will be interesting.

However the Tosh will do me (it will have to) until something fabo comes along at an affordable price. (LCOS???, projectors that don't need completely dark room??)

I am definitely interested in getting that Tosh service menu info but I don't want you to go to a lot of trouble, and I'm willing to pay. Do you have any thoughts?

[Owen]

Uuumm, the LCOS. I saw the 57" Toshiba LCOS rear pro at the 2003 Sydney CES and was blown away by it. Its the best big screen display I have ever seen. I hassled Castel about buying one and they said that they may be getting them in about august 2004 (this was back in October 2003). Price was going to be about $12,000 plus. I was getting ready to buy one. I had even considered going to the US and bringing one back.

Last month Toshiba announced that the second generation LCOS TV's had been canceled and that they were going to go with DLP technology. That screwed my plans.

The true HD DLP sets from any manufacturer are not expected to market until late 2004 in the US and could therefore not be expected here until mid to late 2005 and they will not be cheap. I just can’t wait that long. I can get two years use out of the Hitachi CRT before anything worthwhile comes out to replace it. The current LCD sets look like crap IMHO. The DLP sets are much better but are way to small and not HD. A good 60" HD plasma may be ok when available but at a stupid price.

I have even considered getting a good DPL front projector and a lenticular screen and making my own rear projector by mounting the screen in my lounge room wall and setting up the projector in my garage to project onto the back of the screen. This would cost about $20,000 and be a lot of work for an uncertain result.

CRT is still the best option for big screen HD and this situation does not look like changing any time soon.

I would be glad to help you out with your Toshi if I can.

Maybe I could PDF the relevant parts of my manual and email them to you, no payment required.

Regards,

Owen

[pietro1503559499]

Interesting you say that CRTs have the best large screen quality, I agree entirely. I think many people get blown away by the aesthetics of plasmas etc without realising there are higher-quality alternatives.

Am I the only person who does not know what IMHO stands for???

I will email you via this site about the pdf files. Thanks.

[mungo brush]

Am I the only person who does not know what IMHO stands for???

Well you might be, AFAIK, because I was puzzled by these abbreviations until I found a PDA site that had all this stuff on it. It's now downloaded on to my Palm Pilot.

I'm usually the last one to find out anything.

10Q for making my day.

(ROFL).

[Owen]

pietro,

Just so you don’t feel left out.

IMHO =In My Humble Opinion

AFAIK= As Fare As I Know

LOL= Laugh Out Loud

ROFL= Rolling On Floor Laughing

I am sure you are NOT the only one

Owen

[mungo brush]

AFAICT - As Far As I Can Tell

AFAIK - As Far As I Know

AFK - Away From Keyboard

AIUI - As I Understand It

AOL - America Online

ATM - At The Moment

B2W - Back To Work

BAK - Back At Keyboard

BBFN - Bye Bye For Now

BBL - Be Back Later

BFD - Big F***ing deal!!!

BFN - Bye, For Now

BG (Usually in Brackets) - Big Grin

BRB - be right back

BRH - be right here

BTA - But Then Again

BTDT - Been There, Done That

BTFM - Beats the Funk out of Me

BTSOOM - Beats the s*** out of me

BTW - By The Way

BWG - Big Wide Grin

CIS - CompuServe Information Service

CP - Copy protection

CU L8R - See You Later

CYA - See ya

CYAIH - Cya in hell.

EG (Usually in brackets) - Evil Grin EOF - End Of File

EOS - End of Story.

F2F - Face to Face

FAQ - Frequently Asked Questions

FCS - For Christ's Sake

FDROTFL - Falling Down Rolling On The Floor Laughing

FM - Fine Magic

FOAF - Friend Of A Friend

FOTCL - Falling Off The Chair Laughing

FRO - F*** right off!!!

FUA - Frequently Used Acronyms

FUBAR - F***ed Up Beyond All Recognition

FWIT - For what it's worth

FWIW - For What It's Worth

FYEO - For Your Eyes Only

FYI - For Your Information

G (Usually in brackets) - Grin

GAL - Get a life!

GD&WVVF - Grinning, ducking, and walking very, very fast

GIYODS - Get It Your Own Damn Self

GMTA - Great Minds Think Alike

GR&D - Grinning running & ducking

HAND - Have a nice day

HTH - Hope this helps.

IAE - In any event

IANAL - I Am Not A Lawyer, also IANA... such as CPA

ICOCBW - I Could, Of Course, Be Wrong

IIRC - If I Remember Correctly

IITYWTMWYBMAD - If I Tell You What This Means Will You Buy Me A Drink?

ILY - I Love You

IMCO - In my considered opinion

IMHO - In My Humble Opinion

IMNSHO - In My Not So Humble Opinion

IMO - In My Opinion

IMPO - In my pious opinion

IMSHO - In My So Humble Opinion

IOHO - In Our Humble Opinion

IOW - In Other Words

IRL - In Real Life

ISP - Internet Service Provider

ISTM - It Seems To Me

ITC - It's the coolest

ITILY - I Think I Love You

IUD - Insert Usual Disclaimers

IYDM - If You Don't Mind

IYDMMA - If You Don't Mind Me Asking

IYKWIM - If You Know What I Mean

IYKWIMAITYD - If You Know What I Mean And I Think You Do

IYSWIM - If You See What I Mean

JFYI - Just for your information

KISS - Keep It Simple Stupid

KWIM - Know What I Mean?

LMHO - Laughing my head off

LOL - Laughing Out Loud

LOTI - Laughing On The Inside

LZ - Loser!

NBD - No Big Deal

NFW - No F***ing Way

NJTH - Not Just Thinking Here

NOYB - None Of Your Business

NP - No Problem

NRN - No Reply Necessary

NTYMI - Now That You Mention It

OIC - Oh, I See

OTFM - Only the Facts, Ma'am

OTL - Out To Lunch

OTOH - On The Other Hand

PB - Potty Break

PEKUSH - Press Every Key Until Something Happens

PITA - Pain In The A**

PMFJI - Pardon Me For Jumping In

PMJI - Pardon My Jumping In

PPL - People

PTMM - Please Tell Me More

PWYP - Practice What You Preach

R - Are

RIP - Requiescat In Pace = Rest In Peace

ROFL - Rolling On the Floor Laughing

ROFLASTC - Rolling On The Floor Laughing And Ccaring The Cat

ROFLMAO - Rolling On the Floor Laughing My A** Off

ROFLMBO - Rolling On The Floor Laughing My Butt Off

ROFLPMP - Rolling On The floor laughing, peeing my pants!

ROTM - Right On The Money

RS - Real soon

RSN - Real Soon Now [which may be a long time coming]

RSVP - Répondez S'il Vous Plaît

RTFM - Read The F***ing Manual

RTFMSH - Read The F**ing Manual S*** Head

RUMF? - aRe yoU a Male or Female?

**** - Sure Happy It's Thursday

SIG - Special Interest Group

SITD - Still in the dark

SNAFU - Situation Normal, All F***ed Up

SOE - Silly/Stupid Operator Error

SOL - Sooner or Later...

SOS - Same Old S***

SOS - Save Our Souls

SWINGO - She Who Must Be Obeyed (The Wife)

TAFN - That's All For Now

TANSTAAFL - There ain't no such thing as a free lunch

TCOY - Take Ccare Of Yourself

TIA - Thanks In Advance (also AtDhVaAnNkCsE)

TIC - Tongue In Cheek

TLA - Three Letter Acronym (such as this)

TPTB - The Powers That Be

TTBOMK - To The Best Of My Knowledge

TTFN - Ta Ta For Now

TTYL - Talk To You Later

TVM - Thanks Very Much

TWF - That was fun

U - You

VBG (Usually in brackets) - Very Big Grin

WAMKSAM - Why Are You Kids Staring At Me?

WB - Welcome Back

WBS - Write Back Soon

WGAS - Who gives a S***!?!?

WRT - With Respect To; concerning

WTF - What/Where/Who The F***

WTG - Way To Go

WYSIWYAG - What You See Is What You Almost Get

WYSIWYG - What You See Is What You Get

WYWH - Wish You Were Here

XXX - Three/many-many kisses (girl talking)

YAFIYGI - You Asked For It, You Got It

YDAGWYW - You Don't Always Get What You Want

YGWYPF - You Get What You Pay For

YHM - You Have Mail

YMBJ - You must be joking

YMMV - Your Mileage may vary

YSWUS - Yea, Sure Whatever You Say!

(:-) Bald

(:-D Big Mouth

:-! Smoker

:-# Kiss

:-$ Put Your Money Where Your Mouth Is

:-( Sad

:'-( Crying

:-) 8 Dolly Parton

:-) Happy

:-{) Moustache

:-| Frown

:-| Disgusted

:-o Surprised

:-X My Lips Are Sealed

;-) Wink

;-@ Swearing / Angry

[:-) Wearing A Walkman

|-o Very Surprised

=:-) Dickhead

===:-D Don King

143 I Love You

3:-o Cow

8-) Wearing Glasses