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Hi everyone,

Browsing the Sony Australia Website, I noticed that Sony have released new Rear Pros. There are two new models: KPFW46M31 and KPFW51M31. They have a RRP of $4499 and $5499 respectively. They all support 576p/720p/1080i, feature a memory stick slot and have DRC1250 processing.

Has anyone seen the new models in action yet? They sound pretty good for the price.

Rahul

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Good to see Sony bringing out a few HD RPTV's. Give the Toshiba units a run for their money.

116CM WIDESCREEN REAR PROJECTION WEGA TV KPFW46M31 $4,499.00

http://www.sony.com.au/product_detail_cont...odCod=KPFW46M31

130CM WIDESCREEN REAR PROJECTION WEGA TV KPFW51M31 $5,499.00

http://www.sony.com.au/product_detail_cont...odCod=KPFW51M31

Both these Sony accept 1080i, 720p & 576p

So at the moment we have HD RPTV from Toshiba, Panasonic & Sony

Mark

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Did some investigating myself on the 46" avalability...

wont be until nearing Xmas (late december)

Got some info on Inputs it has two HD inputs...

1 is Component YPrPb/YCrCb

the other is Selectable Component YPrPb(CrCb) or RGB HV !

RGBHV would be very useful to people hooking it to a HTPC

Other standard inputs as usual composite, S-vid, Audio (1 output) and center channel

wow, 720p is a bonus too...

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So at the moment we have HD RPTV from Toshiba, Panasonic & Sony

don't forget about Samsung and LG ...

I think I read somewhere about Sony entering a technology agreement with Samsung to get access to Samsungs LCDs

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Anyone with a serious HTPC would want a DVI interface, not an RGBHV interface..

Both would be nice, but given the choice I'd take DVI any day..

LG 60" and Sammy 61" are still my choice of RPTV for now..

Still waiting for LCOS though :blink:

-Auldar

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  • 2 months later...


I couldnt find the Panasonic, so put an order in for the samsung, but for the 109cm, because the 119cm one was too large for where we were sitting, went to another store and saw the panny set up, put an order in straight away, it was such a better picture - so much better that it was actually easier on the eyes then the 109cm samsung.

The panny also has a non refelctive screen, which makes a huge difference.

I noticed on alot of the RPTVs that are avaliable everything sort of gets a glow around it - especially in fast action, and that the LCD RPTVs have a jerky picture (may have been their setup - normally is pretty dodgy). The Panasonic did not suffer from either of these.

I got my Panny for $3400 - should arrive next friday :blink:

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  • 3 weeks later...

No one has mentioned the new 47"and 57" Hitachi HD rear projectors.

http://www.hitachi.com.au/hitachi/content/...ndex.asp?ID=123

They promise to be the best rear projectors available in Oz if the US models are anything to go by.

I was going to purchase a 57" Toshiba but will hold of till I see the 57" Hitachi next week.

The LCD rear projectors available in Oz are no competiton for a calibrated CRT rear projector IMHO.

Regards,

Owen

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Hmm, have not seen the Hitachi rear pros yet, have to find out where has one and go look at it! I currently have the Panny (47") on order, but that won't come until mid feburary, so this might be a good alternative :blink:

Anyone know if it has a non reflective screen like the panasonic or the toshiba? Because that is a really important thing for my room (very bright and lots of glare)

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Well checked out the Hitachi today, screen is very reflective and PQ is not as good as the Panasonic (which was near it) or the Sony (remembering quality from another store)

So I am keeping my order on the panny :blink:

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m00j,

Where did you see the Hitachi and which model. C47WD5000 or C57WD5000 ?

I am not aware of any on display in Sydney at this time.

Are you sure it was a new model.

The HD 16:9 models do not have reflective screens as fare as I know.

I want a 57" so my options are limited.

I have seen the Toshiba and the Sony. Toshiba wins be a mile.

I have yet to see the Hitachi.

CRT rear projectors need to be adjusted before you judge them. Most of them look like crap in retailers. The factory settings are way off.

Regards,

Owen

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I believe it was the C47WD5000 althought it seemed to be a bit smaller (possibly 45" instead of 47") - but the frame was the same as in the picture on their website.

I saw it at Clive Anthony's at carseldine here in Brisbane, I called them and asked if they had the new hitachi on display, they said they had just got one. When there is a bright picutre on the screen you can't see the reflections, but if your watching a dark movie I think it would be very noticeable.

On another note, they had the panny right next to the LG DLP rear pro, and the quality of both pictures seemed neck and neck (the colours were a bit more vibrant on the panny, but probably just different settings) - proving that the good old CRT style rear projection can keep up with new and fancier technology.

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I am shocked that the Pani looked better then the Hitachi.

Were both the sets useing a quality HD decoder connected by component cables and showing try HD material? (like the HD loop on 9)

The decoder and cables make a BIG differance.

Regards,

Owen

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Both were hooked up to footballs, both displaying the 9 HD loop (using component cables, don't know what qaulity though)

The signal going to the Hitachi was a bit weaker (pixelisation occasionally) but overall I would say the panny had a smoother picture, the hitachi had sharp, jagged edges.

But it really comes down to personal preference, some will prefer one over the other, for anyone looking at getting one, just go look at them for yourself!

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Yeah the toshibas are nice sets, I looked at getting one, but the price was quite a bit more (they wanted $4400 for it, and I got the panny for $3400 -from them!)

They say the shipment of pannys will arrive here in early-mid feb, I can't wait :blink:

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I want a 57" so my options are limited.

I have seen the Toshiba and the Sony. Toshiba wins be a mile.

Well for 57" I expect the Toshiba would be better, since the new sonys are the smaller ones (46" and 51") - the 57" sony is an older model (I can't stand it - the screen flickers when you face side on and it is in your peripheral vision)

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The Sony 57"was not an old model but a new HD model.

The Toshiba 57" HD is the best thing I have seen to date.

I intend to get the service manual and do all the calibration myself.

I have owned a Toshiba rear projector for four years and know my way around a service menu. Once my Toshiba was calibrated it only required a minor touch up once a year.

I have seen almost no good rear projectors in retailers. They are almost all so poorly adjusted that it is a wonder they sell any.

A good quality and correctly calibrated CRT rear projector is still among the best large screen displays available.

Digital displays still have some catching up to do.

Regards,

Owen

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Owen, I live in the country and it's virtually impossible to get decent service on something as esoteric as a 57" rearpro. The technicians have had no experience with such beasts and tend to make it up as they go.

How do you get access to a service manual? Castel wouldn't supply me details of how to do the service convergence even though I said if it went wrong I was prepared to pay to have it corrected. I would definitely have a go if I could get the info.

What price are they asking for the 57" HD now? Surely it should have come down with the high dollar etc. When I bought my SD model (about 5-6 months ago) the HD was just over $7000.

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Sorry for the off topic comments but I'm thinking about getting the new Panasonic 47P800H which a few people have commented in this thread as being a good buy.

From the panasonic web site I note theres a slight difference in the specs to the previous model (47P600H) in that the 600H features a "twin digital comb filter (PAL)" while the 800H makes no mention of this feature.

Is this significant?

Any other feedback on this make and model?

Can any one recomend a service reputable service agent in Perth to setup and calibrate a RPTV and at what price?

Thanks for any response on the above

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The Sony 57"was not an old model but a new HD model.

The Toshiba 57" HD is the best thing I have seen to date.

I am saying that the new HD 57" sony has been out for a while, wheras the smaller ones have just come out (last month I think). There is a huge difference in picture quality between the smaller ones and the 57"

yossarian17,

It says on their page that it has the D Y/C Digital Comb Filter (NTSC) still, so I would say they just left it off. Also, the 800 is meant to have better PQ than the 600 and is $1000 cheaper, so the 800 is a better option (the 600 is no longer made). As for price, go to the nearby stores and ask them for their best price, try the larger places as they often have the buying power to get a cheaper price. I purchased my TX-47P800H for $3400 with a Toshiba HDSTB for $740 and free delivery (from the other side of Brisbane!)

So shop around and you can find a bargain!

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Pietro,

I just rang Castel and asked to buy a service manual.

They sold me a photocopied one for about $35-$40 and even faxed me some of the convergence info for free. I can’t complain about that.

Even without the manual I managed to find enough information on the web to adjust everything I needed to, but I am not a novice and have done calibration before.

Whatever you do DON’T adjust anything without writing down the original settings BEFORE you start. That way you can always go back to where you started.

It is wise to know what you want to adjust and why before you do it.

When I purchase a new 57” HD set I will require a FULL service manual be supplied at time of purchase or no sale. That puts the pressure on the retailer to get hold of one to close the sale. :blink:

Regards,

Owen

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I am a normal customer. I got a manual for my 43N9U in 2000 or 2001.

Maybe you can talk a local service agent into ordering a manual.

You may also be able to find some info on line.

Many Toshiba models use similar service menus.

Here are some links:

http://myweb.accessus.net/~090/how2adj.html

http://www.keohi.com/keohihdtv/brandspecif...shiba_tips.html

http://www.bus.ucf.edu/cwhite/theater/ToshibaTips.htm

One thing I do recommend is to disable SVM ( scan velosity modulation).

Now I am determined to demand a manual be provided on sale or they can kiss my business goodbye. It is NOT optional.

Owen

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It was to long ago to remember names.

Almost all adjustments are done from the remote including all convergence.

You just need to get into the service menu. (service mode)

Regards,

Owen

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FYI..

I have a Toshiba 57" WS HD RP I purchased around 6 months ago. I have had a lot on my plate so am only getting my "stuff" together now to do the calibration.

I could find SFA info on this particular model, being ozzy etc.. I managed to get into the service menu from info on a US / UK site for a non ozzy Toshy. I think it may have been Keoshi. I had a quick look, then exited.

I am now attempting to get 'sorted' properly. The user menu offers only 9 point convergence which is pittiful.

The service offers far greater in all resolutions. Now, to get hold of a service manual. *sigh*

I should also mention that the service menu is far from user friendly. You definately need a service manual or similar.

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You are right Hyrax...the user convergence is hopeless. Apart from this small problem the set is wonderful.

Are you intending to contact Castel to try to get a service manual...if you do could you please post the results here. I had no luck at all but Owen managed to get one. Maybe it depends on who you speak to......

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Well now I have seen the 57” HD Hitachi and can say that Hitachi’s reputation for making among the best rear projectors is untarnished. But to look at one in a retailer you would definitely not think so.

When I first saw the Hitachi displaying the channel 9 HD loop I thought there was something wrong with the decoder box. The picture was, well…. in a word, BAD. Contrast was as expected, way to high but more importantly the picture lacked detail and exhibited a very nasty artificial edge enhancement and sparkling white high lights. Altogether a very ordinary performance and a great disappointment to me. I had expected great things as Hitachi rear projectors are acclaimed in the US as being top class.

Well I am not that easily discouraged and could not believe that Hitachi would market such an obviously poor performer. I had the salesman produce the owners manual and I went though the “picture” menu and adjusted contrast, down to about 12, brightness down to 50 and sharpness to 0. This looked better but still very lacking in detail and with that nasty edge enhancement. I them moved on to another page of the menu where I found what I was looking for. There are two settings in this menu that can destroy the picture quality of this TV. VM (velocity modulation) and CTI (colour transient improvement) both are ON but default. VM, a kind of edge enhancer is common on CRT sets and is not always user disable able. I had to disconnect a power supply connection in my Toshiba to disable this useless “feature”. CTI seems to be a Hitachi thing and I don’t know what it is supposed to do but is I liked it better off.

After disabling VM and CTI the Hitachi came to life and produced a very nice smooth detailed and naturale picture very similar to the much smaller LG DLP set next to it but with much better blacks of course. The only problem remaining was the colour. Hitachi sets are known to have an overly warm colour setting or “red push” and this one sure did. This can be easily fixed, but would require a service menu adjustment to RDRIVE and RCUT to correct the grey scale. No big deal but it is not meant to be user adjustable.

Like all CRT rear projectors, a full service level calibration will improve picture quality substantially over what I saw in the retailer so never judge a book by its cover and never judge a CRT rear projector buy what you see in a retailer.

It remains a complete mystery why Hitachi would deliver a TV with such poor default settings.

Is the Hitachi a match for the Toshiba? Well I cannot say for sure as I could not directly compare them. But I would say that they are very close. The Toshiba has better colour adjustment out of the box and has a none reflective screen (a big issue for some). The Hitachi has a reflective screen just like a Plasma and my current Toshiba. I personally prefer the appearance of the Hitachi cabinet.

If the reflective screen is a problem it can be removed if you don’t have kids. It is only a protective cover for the lenticular screen. Many fastidious owners of rear projectors remove the screen protector to improve image quality and eliminate reflections.

There is one compelling advantage to the Hitachi and that is price.

The Hitachi can be obtained for about $4600 AUD or less if you really push. That makes it about $1500 CHEAPER then the Toshiba and makes it the best value big screen HD TV I have seen by fare. There are no other contenders in the 57” category.

God knows how cheap the 47” model is.

Which one will I buy?

Since there is effectively very little difference between them after calibration (which I can do) and the reflective screen is not a big problem for me I shall be ordering the Hitachi. I was quit prepared to spend $7000 on a TV but I cant see any need to do so now.

The Hitachi will tide me over for the next couple of years until the next generation of big screen HD DLP projectors or something else comes along.

Regards,

Owen

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Do you guys with rptv's manage to achieve a better blue focus than what I tend to see in the shops? This is the main thing putting me off a crt based rptv at the moment. I can't stand the silly blue fringing around every white object I see.

I understand manufacters defocus blue for enhanced brightness but I personally don't find it acceptable. Is it easy to adjust on the new Toshiba's for example? They are among the worst I have seen for this artifact and the higher the source resolution the worse the effect.

Also is anyone aware of an rptv in Australia with larger than 7" crt's? Mitsubishi in the US apparently have a 9" unit. I'd be curious to see that.

Thanks

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I can't stand the silly blue fringing around every white object I see.

What you are seeing is the affect of a badly Convergence RPTV. Most CRT RPTV I've seen in shops look terrible! The three CRTs in a RPTV need to be converged correctly to show the best possible picture. These RPTV have a User Menu in which "you" the owner can adjust the Convergence. However sometimes you need to go into the Service Menu to fix the Convergence if it is really out of adjustment.

A Convergence needs to be done and saved for each different signal input, such as 480, 480p, 576i, 576p, 720p & 1080i. Once the convergence is done correctly you won't see this problem. However CRT RPTV still need the convergence tweaked now and then to keep the picture at it's best.

Mark

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Hi Mark

Thanks for the reply. I am familiar with convergence, I have an 8" fptv. But it's not this I'm seeing. I see soft blue either side of a white line, not only on one side which would be due to convergence issues. I suspect the tubes in these sets are so cheap they can't achieve a good blue focus, but would like to be proven wrong. I used to have a 7" fptv and it couldn't focus blue half as well as my 8", but was still a lot better than any crt rptv I've seen in Australia.

Thanks again

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Hi dyates69,

I understand now what your talking about now. Sorry for misunderstanding you. My Mistake!

I too have a 8" Front Projector (NEC XG-1350). Yes perhaps the blue focus is the problem. However the Blue tubes is the hardest colour to focus so maybe it's just that it hasn't been do correctly. Then again these units may be using 7" CRTs without Electromagnetic Focus. Most likely they have 7" CRTs with Electrostatic Focus.

Mark

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I would love to see the Mitsubishi 75” with 9”guns. I would buy one even if it was expensive. I doubt that you can buy a better display then that at any price but there is almost no chance of ever getting one in Aus.

As for blue focus, well it is always the problem child. But it is possible to get near perfect focus and convergence. I have done so on my 7” gun Toshiba SD 43” TV. It shows a nice clean WHITE convergence grid without blue fringing. I run my Windows computer desktop on it at 1024x768 with nice readable text.

I expect no less from a new HD model. They can have up to 100 adjustment points on the convergence grid.

High contrast levels will increase the tendency for the electron guns to flare. This is more of a problem for front projectors as they must run very hard to produce enough light output. It is also a sign of tube ageing. When they get old and tired they loose focus.

If you need perfect text then a digital display is preferable but then you will loose the shadow detail and deep blacks that only CRT’s can provide

Regards,

Owen

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