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michaelf

HD capable DVD Player

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I checked that site out last night.

It's reasonably helpful in as much as you can see others struggling with the same issues, but by no means is there any sort of consensus as to whether one should update the firmware, and if so which version.

It also does not contain information as to how to deal with 4:3 source material ....

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Hi

Ive just run the momitsu head to head against my Sony 730p,by using the same DVD in each player running at the same time and switching between them.

The sony is running component,and the momitsu DVI.Their hooked up too a PAnasonic AE500 projector.Ive got the momitsu set to 720p.

My brother and my missus both were there and it seems in terms of PQ,the sony blew the doors off of the Momitsu.

Im not sure if my momitsu is working properly but i was expecting such a jump in PQ from what ive read in the forums from other people.Some people are claiming $1000 Denon players far inferior to the MOmitsu.But god the colour from this machine in DVI mode is outright dull.

The picture may be a little sharper,but thats not easily noticable.

My brother and missus arnt videophiles they just agreed without knowing wich player was playing that the Sony was far superior.

My missus complained that i just blew $450 down the gurgler,and in all honesty i agree with her.

Anyone else seeing the same thing as me or do i just have a shitty player.

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Should I install the November one or the December one? Or leave it as is?

December firmware, where is this beast? I've looked on the Momitsu forum and Manowa, it only says coming soon. It sounds good though, they say "Add Color Adjustment - Brightness, Contrast and Saturation" to the machine, I think that may help get over the argument some people have had about the better colour saturation of the Sony. Also I see "Improve DVD title compatibility issue" listed could also be helpful.

Anyway looking forward to getting this update, not that I have a projector to use my Momitsu with at the moment, although it wouldn't hurt for me to pair it up with my Sony KVHR36M31 TV in the meantime.

BTW, anyone game to try the power supply upgrades mentioned on AVSForum? I've got some techs at work who could do it pretty easily. I'm contemplating that transport upgrade too.

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Hi all,

Just thought I would reply to some of the queries and uncertainties some people are having with this player.

The firware is a couple of version old, but there is a very good reason for this. The last 2 firmwares (novemeber and December beta) were very unstable and had some very bad problems which would make nearly all customers so unhappy that they would return the units for sure. Firstly with the November F/W, the player would hang when attempting to play a DVD from a different region that the previous one played. This then required a hard power off (unplug power cable) which was very annoying. This was amoung a couple of other smaller loader issues.

The December beta F/W was just that, as beta version. This had an even more serious problem. Everytime you power the unit off and power it on again, it would not load the DVD correctly, it would think its a CD and then again a hard power off (inplug power cable) was required to get it to correctly load the disc.

The October F/W that is loaded on all the players we sell, from our own testing, seems to be the most stable. Although there are a couple of new features that are very good and very useful in the newer firmware releases, they are just not worth that hassles that are brought by using those new firmware versions.

We did extensivly test the December beta F/W and apart from the loading issue after a power off and on, it looked really great. The colour and brightness/contrast adjustments were a great added feature, so are the custom DVI settings. The picture quality is excelent once adjusted correctly, and although some may have differing opinions, it is the best pic quality I have ever seen out of a DVD player.

The December beta F/W is being worked on as we speak. I have been informed that the bugs will be fixed and the official Dec F/W release should be available in the next week or so. I will post a link once it is available.

For those who have already purchased a player or are going to get in before Christmas, and would like to upgrade to the new F/W once its available, there are instructions and it is quite simple. It took us under 5 min.

The beta version we tested did not have the 50Hz issue fixed, however we have been informed that Momitsu's R&D team will be doing what they can to include it in the official release, otherwise the next version for sure.

Through our own testing, we have seen very little problems playing PAL DVDs at 60Hz. There have been a couple of poor quality DVDs that suffer from shuddering, but generally it doesn't seem to be something that is very worrying, although we do not have many different types of displays to test it on, only what we have.

If anyone has anymore queries, don't hesitate to ask.

I will post updated info as it comes to hand. Remember there are not too many left so hurry in before Chrsitmas. I will look forward to seeing some of you this Saturday.

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Removed by Moderators - Unacceptable advertising.

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after reading this thread i feel pretty amazed about how easily people can be mislead. Why would you honestly want a dvd player output a signal higher then what a dvd disc actually has. So, by the way your talking, u are suggesting that i can get better then 576 horizontal line interlaced picture, from a source that has a max. of 540 horizontal lines. Cause in my thinking, u cant polish a turd.......... sorry for the terminolgy but straight to the point....lol. It may upscale to a higher output, but does this actually improve the quality?????? It's like a mp3, once u compress it, u cant improve it by uncompressing it!

some one please prove me wrong but????

I am pretty amazed by your comments.

Take an example:

Plug a DVD player via SVHS into a video projector run about 15 minutes of a good quality movie.

Ramp up the effect:

Plug a HTPC into the SAME projector this time using VGA or RGBHV inputs and time resolution at 576p (progressive). Play same movie for 15 minutes.

Remap up further:

Plug a HTPC this time at 720p timings same input. Play movie for 15 minutes.

The results will knock your socks off in what your been missing out on.

Regards

DA

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Michael the problem with the PAL 50hz isnt (well in my case) anything to do with Pic Quality... Its the fact that my Pana 86cm WS simply wont display 1080i@60hz only 50hz... thus the v880 is useless to me in every way as the 100A doesnt support 720P and I already have other players including a v880 that can only be used in 576P mode......

SO as you can see the 50hz is rather important...

Wayne

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This thread was hijacked a few pages back to discuss the Neuneo DVD player, potential competitor to the Momitsu which kicked the thread off, and I just wanted to follow up...

I posted a mostly positive experience with the Neuneo player. I noted some initial problems with stuttering and audio sync, but these seemed to go away after the first day.

Well they came back. I have had major problems with this player and am now returning it for a refund (minus shipping). The major issues are audio sync and stuttering. The audio sync problem manifests itself particularly on some disks rather than others, and it typically comes in and out from one scene to the next.

The stuttering problem is pretty random, but when it happens it's bad. Sometimes the player just skips the entire rest of the chapter and goes to the next. It did this tonight as we were trying to enjoy the battle of Helm's Deep in the Two Towers. Very distracting.

Just wondering how the other Neuneo DVD owners are going?

After this experience I'm going to be fairly conservative with the replacement player. Definitely going for a big name, definitely not bought sight-unseen off the internet. Don't want to risk further ridicule from the wife :blink:

Suggestions welcome. Thinking the Sony 730 which does PAL and NTSC progressive scan.

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alastair, these are very common problems with the Neoneo player, and are also common with many other similar players. The momitsu also had similar problems upon its first release, however the great thing about the Momitsu is that the manufacturers are commited to continually developing new firmware to solve these issues as well as to enhance the player while the technology continually changes. Also we sell the player here in Australia and have it on display in our store in Melbourne.

I would recommend if you are in Melbourne to drop in and have a look at one, or you can contact me for any questions.

In regards to your comment about going to a name brand, I would rethink that as if you do have a HD capable display it would be almost pointless going to a inferior picture quality. You really will be impressed with the picture quality of the momitsu and another plus over the NeoNeo is the DVI-I output which can also be converted to RGBHV, which almost all HD displays will be able to connect to. This again increases the picture quality over the NeoNeo's inferior component only output.

Email me for more info.

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Hi Everyone,

Finally got some word back from the manufacturers of the Momitsu. The new official firmware for the V880 will be released next week.

It will have all the features of the beta firmware, without the crappy problems, and yes it will also have support for PAL 50Hz output for 576p, 720p and 1080i. Finally!!!!

I am sure that many of you have been waiting for this.

We have been asked to test it for them so I assume I will have it in the next few days. As soon as it is officially released we will be loading them onto the remaining players we have left for sale, so for anyone who has been postponing buying one of these until the release of this firmware, your time should come next week.

I will post the final details as I receive them.

You will need to be quick though as we don't have many left.

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I just hope and pray that it finally clears up the issue of stuttering, lipsynching and incompatability with various titles.

I've never encountered a consumer product with more problems and I would classify myself as an 'early adopter'.

I also loathe the way it forces you to constantly resize the picture depending on the aspect ratio of the source material.

Whether connected by DVI or component, the problems are still the same.

Despite the occasional widescreen anamorphic DVD that plays well on the Momitsu and looks fantastic, I can't cope with the associated hardship and have reverted back to my old player.

To be perfectly honest, I consider that I wasted my money on this product at the present time. My fingers are crossed that the latest firmware introduces some stability.

Otherwise, if someone is experienced at modifying the hardware of the Momitsu to resolve all the above problems - ie: new loader, etc, I would be very interested and prepared to pay for such work.

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I've read thru this thread and am still a bit confused about an issue.

I'm thinking of buying a Sony HS-20 projector from pricejapan.com, which has an HDMI (HDCP) input. I understand that this is basically a DVI connector with "content protection" (hence the "CP" designation) and audio (irrelevant).

So, does that mean that the output from the Momitsu's DVI port, being Macrovision disabled, will work correctly with all DVD's with the Sony projector? (i.e. irrespective of region code and MacroVision protection)

Given the above combination of Sony projector and Momitsu DVD, does anyone have any comments on this pairing? I gather that the main benefit of the Momitsu is the DVI (hence pure digital) thruput, rather than any internal upscaling, so it should theoretically be better than something like a Sony 730 progressive-scan DVD, which does not have DVI output?

Sorry if these are basic questions, but who would have ever thought it would be so complicated to decide on a basic setup? Pity Joe-Average...

John

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I'm thinking of buying a Sony HS-20 projector from pricejapan.com, which has an HDMI (HDCP) input. I understand that this is basically a DVI connector with "content protection" (hence the "CP" designation) and audio (irrelevant).

Don't confuse the two - the HS20 has both DVI-D HDCP and HDMI HDCP compliant connections. HDCP compliance is only required if the source requests verification i.e. in the US a majority their HD STB's are supplied by companies in the same vain as Foxtel, Austar etc. so in order to use these units they use HDCP verification to ensure the signal is being sent to a valid customer device. The HS20 is a valid HDCP device.

To get heaps on info on the HS20 and Momitsu go over to www.avsforum.com check the DVD Players and LCD Projector <$3000MSRP sections to get every possible answer to any question you may have on the HS20/Momitsu combination.

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Michael its been a week ?? And can us that already have the player download the firmware from where ??

Thanks

Wayne

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Hi all

I though I might answer some of the latest questions since my last post.

Versus, I am sorry you have been having so many problems. Most people are quite happy with the Momitsu. It does have a couple of little problems of its own, but so does many players. You have to remember, it is really one of the pioneer players of this technology, and what it does can only be compared to $1500- $2000 players. Most people are so impressed by the picture quality that the fact of changing aspect ratios from time to time, really isn't that much of a problem, after all picture quality is a main priority.

The current firmware already fixes the lipsynching and some incompatability issues, and the new firmware due very soon should improve the incompatability issues even more. Really the only incompatability issues we have experianced are with cheap DVD-Rs, originals seem to play no problem.

The new firmware will also fix the stuttering issue as it will allow 50Hz output via component video, however if you are using DVI, then the current firmware with its custom DVI settings menu already allows you to select a 50Hz output. This is the reason for the stuttering because you are playing a PAL DVD and its being converted to 60Hz, to put it simply.

So my advice to you is ensure you have the latest firmware, and keep an eye out for the release of the new firmware, it will be great.

Supraman,

The momitsu does not have HDCP encryption on its DVI output, therefore you do not need a HDCP compatable display, but if you do already, it will work with the Momitsu anyway, it just won't have to decrypt the signal.

But dvduser is correct, do not confuse the HDMI interface for HDCP. HDCP is purely the protection built into digital interfaces. HDMI is a new type of interface that is again more advanced than DVI, as in it can transmit more bandwith therfore being able to transmit both digital video and digital multi channel audio via the same interface/cable, a big advantage when we actually get equipment with HDMI interfaces. Also, HDMI is backward compatable with DVI with an adaptor.

And for Wayne7497 and everyone else that has been waiting,

we are still yet to recieve the new firmware for testing. I was told that I would receive it this week, however I think that the technician may have forgot about the Chinese New Year break, because the manufacturers are now apparently closed all this week till the start of Feb. Maybe their technical department still works and I will receive it next week, but I doubt it, they normally close completly, so looks like it maybe a couple of weeks now, but it will eventually get here.

I will post info as I receive it.

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michaelf,

Thanks for the reply. I blame myself for not researching the problems more thoroughly before I bought the product, not you for selling it. However, having done some belated research and having used the player quite extensively, I beg to differ with you on most of your comments.

(1) The picture quality CAN be great - but possibly 50% of disks or more do not work properly. Most of these are not copies - I have over 750 original DVDs (yes, I have no life).

(2) I have tried the August/September firmware the player had installed and this was problematic, I consequently upgraded to November firmware - which provided marginal colour improvement, but little else. What upgraded firmware for custom DVI settings with 50Hz output are you talking about? November firmware doesn't have 50Hz output settings and December firmware has not been released for our model.

(3) You appear to be misguided about the stuttering/freezing. Unfortunately the lipsynching/stuttering/freezing problem was not limited to Region 4 / PAL disks. It was a problem on Region 2 disks, Region 1 disks and even a Region 5 DVD. I can give you a list of so many DVDs that do not work properly - all original. My reading of Momitsu web-based literature is that the problem is HARDWARE in nature - ie. cheap componentry. This may be worked around by improved software interface, but so far to no avail.

(4) Constantly changing aspect ratios is a massive burden to bear IMHO. Every time one switches from TV program or a film shot in 1:33:1 to a widescreen movie, one has to change the aspect. Essentially this involves creating a custom resized picture which is often far worse in quality to my Sony progressive player. The custom resized picture does not even work with all TV/1:33:1 sources either and minor adjustments always need to take place. It's a time consuming pain. Defeats the purpose of having a 1080i DVD player IMHO.

On the + side, the sound quality of CDs/MP3s are good and it appears to play all JPEGs - but it's a little in the 'so what' category.

Again, I hope that the 'December' firmware will be realised soon and fix all the problems, but since February is looming now (why was I not surprised that manowa delayed the release yet again) I don't hold out much hope.

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Versus - Sorry to hear about the problems, on paper it did look the goods and I was very tempted to put myself in the queue to get one. However, upon further research over at AVSForum as well as the HiVIzone Momitsu Forum, the problems with this unit far outweight the benefits - and I'm not one to go wasting around $450 for something that will not do what it was intended for.

Yes it is 1st generation, but there are now around 5-6 of these units available worldwide, with more coming in the next few months. Hopefully this release of products will have better quality and perform as expected for both NTSC and PAL countries.

AVSForum DVD Player section http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdispla...p?s=&forumid=18

HiViZone Momitsu Forum http://www1.hivizone.com/forum/display_for...s.asp?ForumID=2

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Versus,

As I stated, yes the player has some slight issues, however we would not be selling a product that we thought would be un useable or a waste of money. This is why we delayed selling it until we were sure it was right to sell. It does use some cheap componentry to keep the price down, but from our own testing and from the responses we have had, apart from some minor flaws it has been pretty positive.

1) I also have approx 300 original DVDs from all around the globe and about another backups. The only disc incompatabilties I have found it trying to read or play cheap DVD-Rs. I havn't tried every single original I own yet, but I have tried quite a few and they read and play very well. I do get some freezing/stuttering and disc recognition problems on discs that are not burnt correctly or are on cheap media, but not originals. And all the ones that play look amazing. I do have some old movies where the DVD transfer is very poor so the extra lines in the resolution empasises the poor quality of the DVD, but mostly all DVDs I have played have an uncomparable picture, and that is the same sort of response we are getting from customers. We did however have one faulty unit that has a problem with the component video outputs, and it also had problems reading some discs correctly and some stuttering issues, but once it was replaced, it was fine. Maybe you have a faulty unit.

2)The firmware that was installed with the unit is probably the most stable firmware to date, which is why its the one we chose to sell the players with. The November firmware does have the custom DVI settings menu, but to access it there is a key sequence. Int the video menu, select the DVI output option and press 9-7-1-3 on the remote. The custom DVI settings menu will be displayed and you can set various settings including the vertical refresh rate to match your display. You can also use the December firmware that is available on your series of player, however the problem with it is that after playing a DVD, the next time you insert another DVD, even if you turn the machine of and then on later, it doesn't recognise the DVD properly and thinks its a CD and freezes. You then need to unplug the power and plug it in as a hard reboot inorder for it to recognise the DVD. It will not damage your player in anyway, so if you want to try the current December firmware until the new version is out you can, but be aware of this problem and how to overcome it.

3) I though you meant the 50Hz-60Hz shuddering issue. I now know what you mean by stuttering. I guess this is really the same as point one then.

4) i really do not have that much of a proble with the aspect ratios than you seem to. I mainly leave my player set to widescreen and my TV pretty much does the rest. i do sometimes have to make slight adjutments or on some DVDs change the player to 4:3 to ge the best picture if it is not a widescreen movie, but apart from that, which is not very often, it is pretty workable. Maybe it is more to do with your display device as I am not using a projector, although many of our customers have projectors and we havn't had any negative feedback.

5) Hopefully the new version will help you with your problems, and hopefully it will be released soon. I guess there is not much we can do if they are on holidays. I think nearly the whole region shuts down this time of year, so we will just have to wait. I will post info as soon as I have it.

But if you bought the unit from us and you think it maybe a faulty unit, you can come in and change it over, maybe that will help your disc reading issues.

Thanks

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michaelf,

Thank you for your considered response.

I have actually tried the custom DVI settings and still get 60Hz.

My display device is a ALIAS (1024 x 1024) plasma and it is fine. I know this because both other DVD players I've used with it automatically resize and my TV can automatically memory resize X-Box 720p and 1080i input.

I will have a go with the December firmware, even though it is not for my model, noting the problem you have outlined. If that is the only problem, it really wouldn't bother me much at all. I already have to hard reset for my Panasonic HD Set Top Box almost every time I use it.

I note that you have indicated that my unit could be faulty and appreciate your offer to exchange it.

What are your opening hours and times again? Are you also open on Saturdays? If this is getting OT, please PM me with your details.

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  I already have to hard reset for my Panasonic HD Set Top Box almost every time I use it.

I'm surprised you have to hard reset your Panasonic HD STB so often, mine's the most stable STB I've had compared to the DGTec 2000a and 5000i I've used previously. I've had one hard reset occasion in the 6 months I've had the Panasonic that I can recall.

With the resizing, I'm trying grasp that myself, I've used the Momitsu both on a Sony 12HT projector and new 86cm Sony CRT via RGBHV and am not sure where this resize function is? Is it a another setup menu feature or are you talking about physically changing resolutions via the video menu?

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^

Yep, almost every time I use the Panasonic HD STB, I have to unplug and replug it. Other than that it works pefectly. I consider that a little quirk that I can live with and not worth returning it.

With respect to the Momitsu, I'm talking about resizing of the display - changing horizontal and vertical size. The Momitsu converts the picture into its native resolution, so with a non anamorphic DVD you will get a small box surrounded on all four sides by blackness. With a TV show you will get large black bands on each side of the screen. It's annoying having to reshape each time, and even more annoying that with some programs it results in a considerably worse picture than using another DVD player.

As another note, I have tried the early December beta firmware (which I downloaded before they removed it) and so far <fingers crossed> actually seems pretty stable (although obviously not resolving the problem above and I still have to play russian roulette with disks to some extent). However, I thought it gave you a colour adjustment menu somewhere, does anyone know where that is?

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Well Michael they just released a NEW firmware on their Web Page on the 26th of Jan so someones still working over the holidays... However the new one mentions nothing about the 1080@50hz and it also says NEXT firmware not due to 29th of Feb....

Jeez wonder when ours will ever be done if at all.............

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  I already have to hard reset for my Panasonic HD Set Top Box almost every time I use it.

I'm surprised you have to hard reset your Panasonic HD STB so often, mine's the most stable STB I've had compared to the DGTec 2000a and 5000i I've used previously. I've had one hard reset occasion in the 6 months I've had the Panasonic that I can recall.

ditto ... my Panasonic HD STB has been very stable - I can't recall ever having to do a hard reset

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