HD capable DVD Player

[michaelf]

Hi all.

As you see from Wayne7497's pot, there has been a new firmware version released for all versions of the V880.

It has added some great benefits and stability to the player. Much less pausing and skipping on some discs, and the added brighness, contrast and colour saturation are great, although a little coarse. The reponse and loading also seems much faster.

The new firmware is great and picture quality looks amazing, however we still need to wait for 50Hz support for component video. It will be in the Feb firmware as they needed more time to develop the 50Hz options into the firmware. Although the custom DVI settings do now work so if you are using DVI output then you can have 50Hz now if your display can handle it.

Thanks

[IanSav]

Hi Michael,

I remember reading on some US forum late last year that there is a popular mod to the power supply to improve stability of these units. There was also a recommendation to change the DVD drive to a more reliable unit that stopped disk reading and playback stability issues. Someone claiming to represent the manufacturer then posted to say that they were aware of the hardware mods and were going to introduce appropriate fixes as standard factory items in the new year. Do you have any information that could clarify or expand on this matter? I've been holding off getting a unit until I get a better handle on this and the software situation.

Regards,

Ian.

[Philby]

Hi Ian,

There's a whole thread on power supply, heat sink, loader and cable modifications on the AVSForum DIY mods and upgrades in Mom-V880 for better video and audio performance

I am holding off on the Momitsu purchase until there is some more postive feedback regarding the new firmware releases.

Another thread on the AVSForum discussing the new January 2004 firmware New Momitsu firmware released - dated 1/26/04.

This is supposed to address a lot of loader and video/audio stuttering issues.

Cheers

Philby

[culfy]

OK let me share some things I've learnt in my years of interest in electronics and conclusions I can draw from my learnings (feel free to tell me I'm wrong if I am, I'd rather be wrong aand told so now that wrong and think I was right!!):

1. DVD is either PAL or NTSC progressive scan maximum. This means a maximum resolution of 576p.

2. My understanding of DVD is it also has a maximum of 750 horizontal lines of resolution......this means 576x750 is the ideal screen (I'm extrapolating info to figure that one out) for DVD. ANY other will need scaling in some way or another.

3. Scaling is like switching, every time it's done the picture quality degrades in some way.

4. There are currently no devices on the market capable of displaying 1080i as a native resolution (1920x1080).

From this one can only figure that the picture quality of this device can only go down slightly when upscaling to 1080i and down again when downscaling to display on your screen (1024x768 is what mine would need). Surely this would end up being a poorer quality than a direct DVI from DVD (digital and unconverted) to display which would only be upscaled once.

Anyone out there tried a high quality PAL progressive DVD player against this HD one on the same display using the same input?

I just think the more mods or switches you make to any signal the poorer it becomes. This is just logical and has been gospel for years.

I'd love to be able to audition in the manner I described as I don't feel confident it will be as good as they say.

Like I said at the start, I could be wrong.

[culfy]

re upscaling in the TV versus upscaling in the DVD layer - I would have thought that it would be better for the upscaling to take place in the DVD player (so long as it has a good quality scaler). That way, the upscaling is done entirely in the digital domain rather than the DVD player converting to analog, the TV reconverting into digital and then upscaling a degraded picture.

Of course, if we were talking about DVI to DVI then it wouldn't matter but the Toshiba we're getting in Australia doesn't have a DVI input.

So don't buy a Toshiba!

[michaelf]

IanSav and Philby, I can understand you wanting to wait for this player to become more stable as there are many reports on the AVS forums of instability with software and hardware. Yes there are mods that can be done to this player that apparantly can stabalise the unit somewhat, according to the reports, however the players we have received have had far less negative responses than what is discussed on the AVS forums, but there still have been some issues. This maybe due to IanSav's comment about the manufacturer improving the hardware in these units, and seeing as our units are from new batches, maybe this is already in effect, or maybe it is just that they are fixing issues that we beleive to be hardware, but are really software issues.

The latest release of the firmware is really impressive. It seems very stable, fast to respond and has fixed many disc compatability issues. There are still some problems correctly playing some cheap DVD-R media but the disc compatability and the playback stability is much improved. Also the custom DVI settings now work correctly which allows DVI/VGA users the ability to output at 50Hz for PAL, and it works great, much smoother. Also in this new firmware, the picture quality has improved yet again. The picture quality is just outstanding. Especially now that you can adjust the brightness, contrast and colour saturation on the player itself.

There still are a couple of items that need to be added and rectified in the next firmware, hopefully, but I can say that this firmware is very good and has made this player quite stable, and I beleive that for the people that were waiting for more stability in the player, now is the time. Come in and see it for yourself, you won't be disappointed.

To Culfy,

I thought the same as you when I first read about these players, as technically you are correct. But although there is conversion going on to upscale, the conversion is an upscale, outputing more lines of information to make up the picture. The drop in quality due to the conversion is lost in the extra picture quality that is received becasue of the higher res picture.

Basically the only way to show you is for you to come and see for yourself, you will not be disappointed. This player is said to have the best picture quality of any DVD player. There have been reveiws of comparisons to a highend Marantz progressive player with DVI but no upscale, and the response was that the Momitsu produced a better picture quality that the Marantz. Come see for yourself.

[vk2him]

There have been reveiws of comparisons to a highend Marantz progressive player with DVI but no upscale, and the response was that the Momitsu produced a better picture quality that the Marantz. Come see for yourself.

Can you please post the url of these reviews ..

Also, as I am in Sydney, how can I see the unit .. is it only in Melbourne?

Also in this new firmware, the picture quality has improved yet again. The picture quality is just outstanding.

Maybe Im a cynic , but from earlier posts I thought the picture quality was already outstanding due to it being HD... surely the picture quality improvement couldnt be seen with the new firware unless it wasn't that good to start with ... changing brightness, contrast etc on the player dosn't improve the picture quality, it allows you to (possibly) remove any DVD player created contrast/colour/brightness variation.

[OzHTfan]

I installed the new firmware 2 days ago. Prior to that I was not pleased with the disc recognition faults and occasional eject problems with the Dec. firmware. This new firmware honestly makes the Momitsu seem like a new player, it works better all round. I was going to addition ps capacitator mod from AVSForum, but at the moment I'm really happy with the player. I've yet to poke around with the DVI custom rez and 50HZ output but will be doing so on the weekend.

To those that still don't seem to grasp the benefits of scaling: please do some reading about it on AVSForum.com. The reason HTPCs have become so popular amongst those with HD displays, especially amongst projector owners, is due to their ability to scale DVD output to suit the display. This also why the Momitsu is so popular, no it's not a total replacement for an HTPC but the it's capabilities are remarkably close in a simple box for far less $$.

[michaelf]

Thanks for the comments OZHTFan. We have been hearing many similar responses from the many happy customers that we have completed firmware upgrades for. The custom DVI setttings are really great. Allowing a 50Hz output seems to solve all those stuttering issues when playing PAL discs, and the player is much more stable.

vk2him,

The reviews I am talking about that compare players such as the Marantz and Denon to the Momitsu are not official reviews but are reviews that normal everyday HT users are writing on various HT forums. one to try that has many similar reviews is AVSFORUM. You will find a lot of info and reviews of all points of the Momitsu there, good and bad experiances, as well as info on upscaling DVDs, as stated by OZHTFan. You will also notice all the positive reponses about this new firmware. You will notice that when I mentioned that the new firmware increased the already outstanding picture quality, it was not just because of the addition of the brightness, contrast and colour controls, but the actual overall picture is sharper and clearer, even though the picture was already outstanding. This is because of Momitsu's efforts to continuously improve the player and the software that upscales the picture to provide the best possible picture quality to the user.

We are the only distributor in Australia for these players and we are only in Melbourne. This player will not dissapoint you. We have sold many to happy interstate customers. Unfortunatly at this stage these players are only on display here in Melbourne. We are looking at supplying to Sydney HT retailers but that may be a way off if it even happens.

Thanks

[Buttonpusher]

I purchased this player on Saturday and so far I am very happy with it.I am useing the DVI output into my LG 60" LCD RPJ Monitor useing the custom output with the data from the AVS forum-"Do you need help creating custom resolution for your Momitsu V880 " at

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread....20&pagenumber=1 .

Finding Nemo looks absolutely amazing.

I did find that to play a region1 RCE discs,I had to access the "secret" menu and change the player to region 1, then change it back to region0

to play unencoded discs.

[StarDrifter]

I purchased this player on Saturday and so far I am very happy with it.I am useing the DVI output into my LG 60" LCD RPJ Monitor useing the custom output with the data from the AVS forum-"Do you need help creating custom resolution for your Momitsu V880 " at

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread....20&pagenumber=1 .

Finding Nemo looks absolutely amazing.

I did find that to play a region1 RCE discs,I had to access the "secret" menu and change the player to region 1, then change it back to region0

to play unencoded discs.

I've got the LG display too. Have a sony 730p.

How does the momitsu compare to the sony 730p?

[Wayne7497]

Well Michael they should be back from Chinese New Year by now... Any news on the 1080i50hz firmware yet ??

[michaelf]

I have been told that the 50Hz output is the reason why they are releasing the February firmware. I have been told that is will definitley be included in the new firmware which should be released by the end of this month. We will have to wait and see, but they are working on it.

I will post more info as soon as its available.

[HDMI]

Hey peeps,

Any news on availability dates for the V880N with all the options like WiFi, USB and Analog video inputs? And what does "enhanced component output" mean on this version?

Does Michaelf have one yet?

.

.

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[Nordo]

@Michaelf

We all realise that for PAL discs, a player should be able to output at 50Hz. Hopefully the next firmware will allow the Momitsu to do this.

However, in trying to decide what projector to buy (Sanyo Z2 or Pana AE500), I've found many disturbing reports (in particular on the AVS forum) that say that if you feed many projectors with a 720p signal at 50Hz via DVI, the projector will change the frequency to 60 Hz, and in doing so, produces a picture that suffers from "juddering".

So I'm now starting to wonder if the 50Hz output is going to be the nirvana that we are all hoping for

Are you or anyone else familiar with this problem?

[dugby]

Just saw this on http://www.manowa.com.tw/dvdplayer880FWDL.html

Looks like they have delivered on their PAL@50Hz promise......

030904.zip This English-language firmware version is for all V880.

Important Note!

=======================================================

* This English-language firmware version is for all V880.

* After update, please use "Video" button to select Video output if there is no video on the screen.

* In order to get the best performance of video quality,

please do not connect S-video and component out put at the same time.

Release History

==================================================================

1. Updated 03-09-04.

2. Added Screen Saver.

3. Added MP4 file subtitle support. (.srt)

4. Added component PAL 50Hz HDTV support, 576p 50Hz, 720p 50Hz, 1080i 50Hz.

5. Added DVI PAL 50Hz HDTV support, 576p 50Hz, 720p 50Hz, 1080i 50Hz.

6. Improved video playback color detail via all outputs.

7. Fixed AVI playback aspect ratio.

==================================================================

[charliebeagle]

Still not working for the dvi 1080i 50Hz output!!!!!!!!!

So now i wonder if this dvd player can output 1080i at 50Hz via dvi

to my NEC MP3 plasma screen?

[dugby]

Still not working for the dvi 1080i 50Hz output!!!!!!!!!

So now i wonder if this dvd player can output 1080i at 50Hz via dvi

to my NEC MP3 plasma screen?

With your append...are you suggesting that the new firmware does not work for DVI Digital 1080i 50Hz ?

Or was that the analogue XGA part of the DVI socket that does not work at 1080i 50Hz ?

[charliebeagle]

i am using the dvi-d cable to connect v880 to the dvi socket of my NEC 42mp3 plasma screen, when the video setting switch to 1080i 50Hz, the screen just simply did not dispaly any signal, but for other setting like 720p,

every is fine, looks sharp and bright too, so i suggest that maybe my nec did not take the signal 1080i 50Hz through dvi from the momitsu, because i have no problem when connect my dgtec 2000a to the plasma via 15pin RGB cable, so that makes me feel even more confused about this dvd player!!

[misohorny]

The 1080i@50Hz is broken, it still outputs at 60Hz!!

Same with the 720p@50 Hz.

The 576p does output at 50Hz, but all the progressive resolutions are available at 50 Hz anyway, using the custom setting.

Miso

[kootaberra]

I have a PAL/NTSC ps DVD player giving 480p/576p to my LG 152cm RPTV display.

So what I would like to know, is whether there will be a noticeable improvement going for a 720p/1080i DVI player such as the one(s) mentioned here and the new one on the samsung website.

No!

[smoothchat]

qepm,

I tend to disagree. 576p is fairly low res for the LG. It has to take this signal and upscale it to 1280*720. Assuming that the scaler in the DVD player is good quality, I believe it would be better to feed 1080i upscaled component signal to the LG and let it downscale again (eliminating any remaining hint of the jaggies). Another advantage might be to use the DVD player's internal brightness and contrast control to optimise the signal output to maximise the dynamic range before it even gets to the display.

Perhaps StarDrifter and ButtonPusher can tell us of their experiences.

Nordo,

I believe you are correct. Projectors (and LCD Rear TVs) might accept a 50hz signal via DVI/RGB, but the circuitry is designed for 60hz. Hi spec PC video cards do an excellent job of masking the 50/60hz beating that is a normal side effect of this combination. Pans are simply not silky smooth, but you are hard pressed to detect a regular "beat".

If the DVD player output is not as sophisticated as a PC card, then beating will be very obvious and regular.

Nirvana, is the component side of things (on the LG 60" at least).

On the LG, the VGA and DVI inputs expect 60hz (but work with 50hz as described above), however component input supports true 50hz. A DVD player that scales the video up from 720*576 to 1920*1080i should result in silky smooth component playback at 50z on this display.

All things being equal, the DVD player should match the quality of an HTPC except for one thing missing.... image enhancement.

On a PC you can insert extra software to "enhance, denoise and sharpen" the image. Too much makes everything very pixally. Just a dash adds just that bit more 'snap' to the image that is really only noticeable on a large display like the LG.

[kiwigav]

Still not working for the dvi 1080i 50Hz output!!!!!!!!!

So now i wonder if this dvd player can output 1080i at 50Hz via dvi

to my NEC MP3 plasma screen?

With your append...are you suggesting that the new firmware does not work for DVI Digital 1080i 50Hz ?

Or was that the analogue XGA part of the DVI socket that does not work at 1080i 50Hz ?

I was wondering if you have tried the player with a component connection,because if this worked without all the probs i have beeen reading about I could be interested in getting one for my Sony TV which will do 1080i.

Would be greatfull for any info.

[misohorny]

Gavin,

I used the DVI-A/RGB/VGA output to determine that 1080i@50Hz was in fact 60Hz so there may be some hope for the component output being correct.

Miso

[kiwigav]

misohorny.

Thanks for your reply, I will wait untill someone here in Australia has tested the new firmware through component.

The overseas forums arn't much help to the pal side of the player.