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Thanks, Big H. I'll give that a try tomorrow when the tech's here to have a look at it. I was wondering what that arc on the side was. That's something that I could live (especially taking the price into consideration) but the clamping and the silhouetting were killing me. Hopefully this will be able to fix it up.

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Had i bought one from HomeZone (Supacentre) tonight they would have done it for $1499 including delivery :blink: but the silly buggers didn't have the Thomson HD-STB, which i'd rather buy all together... (i bloody hate sales staff that say, "can't do that price any other time except tonight")

To top it off HN wouldn't even go lower that $2200 for the STB+TV. Go figure. Will take my HZ price down to Domayne on the weekend to sort it out. See if the buggers will play. Will have to pickup a P. Scan DVD player and some speaker stands too (have put that off for far too long). Not to mention a TV stand (Ikea moore park don't have stock, will have to trek out to Blacktown)

Almost at the point where i think the 76 is too small and 86 is too heavy... for $1500 i'll have it as my bedroom TV if it ends up too small...

- Rob

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Sometimes there was a huge black bar down the right so I thought simple I'll adjust it and move it over which looked all good. However all of a sudden it seemed to move again with a black bar on some other part of the screen. To make matters worse it changed every time I changed channels or input methods.
Do worry too much about this, it's on all TVs to some extent the Broadcasters never get the vertical blanking right in Oz and rely on the domestic set cropping at least 10% to hide this problem.
The other disturbing problem was once again geometry related some pictures had a distinct bow most of the time on the edge but sometimes further in on the picture.
If this is the horizontal downward bow I spoke of in an earlier post this is related the deflection yoke and there is little that can be done to easily fix it.
When I plugged my notebook in i didn't really do a whole lot basically loaded powerdvd and played a movie confirming it works. I must say it's still dissapointing seeing letterboxed on a widescreen tv but thats no fault of this model but overall it seemd to work fine with the laptop at 1024x768.
I run my PC into the XGA input useing the 800x600 desktop resolution as it’s easer to read the PC menus from a distance with this setting. The video layer feed from the PC is not effected by desktop reso and looks the same regardless of desktop resolution.
Other obvious observations is it's stilll a big ugly looking tv which raised the problem on how the hell will i fit it into my car! 
How about a roof rack or hire a trailer. I took mine home without the box.
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Hi BigH

once again thanks for your input.

ok for the first point what do you do then to avoid these moving bars? do you have to expand the width of the picture over the edge of the screen to avoid being able to see them?

I'm not sure if its the same bow, This will look lame but I'll attempt to show you what I mean

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On the top rh corner the picture tilted in. The problem was the shape was once again inconsistent so I'm unsure if adjustments would affect it. I tried turning the surrounding tv's off incase they were causing problems

Also I forgot to ask is it normal for the tv guides such as channel 9's and sevens to be a little more shimmery, I couldn't complain about the picture on shows like ACA they were basically perfect in my eyes but the guides always looked a little funny especially around the text

Ok I had a read last night on htpcnews (the powerstrip guide) about setting up resolutions on the screen. I'm still a litte confused as to what would be the best resoltion to run my to be built htpc into the xga port to display 1080i hdtv on the screen (as on the guide they say 1080i is the best but then also so setting the res to 576p is the best), they also seemed to suggest you should change the resolution when watching dvd's as well.

while I'm here are all vga cables created equally like is there any certain brand I should go for?

haha yeah its a beasty unit, after reading magicrobs price I might try to bargain the shipping into the deal.

thanks again

edit ahh bummer my great picture didn't work! just imagine the right hand side bits line up on the right hand edge of the screen so it makes a rectangle minus the top right bit obviously. Having said that the weird shapes changed all the time

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ok for the first point what do you do then to avoid these moving bars? do you have to expand the width of the picture over the edge of the screen to avoid being able to see them?

Yes

I'm not sure if its the same bow, This will look lame but I'll attempt to show you what I mean

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No that's not the problem and you might have enough correction to fix that but you will never get a perfect geometrically correct pic from a domestic set the Grade A studio monitors are around 40 grand.
Ok I had a read last night on htpcnews (the powerstrip guide) about setting up resolutions on the screen. I'm still a litte confused as to what would be the best resoltion to run my to be built htpc

Think of this TV as a computer monitor, they work better on Progressive. What you will be feeding into it will either come from you PC or STB which is just another computer.

into the xga port to display 1080i hdtv on the screen (as on the guide they say 1080i is the best but then also so setting the res to 576p is the best),

Interlace (1080i) is going to be a problem so I'd stick with Progressive (576p).

they also seemed to suggest you should change the resolution when watching dvd's as well.

You will end up playing these from your HTPC so there's no issue here. If you do stay with a dvd player and want to feed it into the Palsonic DVD input it will appear in the TV section not on the Hidef monitor section and the DVD player will need a YCbCr output which is interlaced.

while I'm here are all vga cables created equally like is there any certain brand I should go for?

Get SVGA type but if you are getting a STB there will be one in the box with it. The computer ones are not hte same as STB. For STB or PC to TV you need males at both ends. Computer VGX are male/female and sometimes twisted pair not coax.

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Paid $1500 for one today (WHD) at Domayne Alexadria. Got the Thomson HD-STB at the same time for $650, delivery included ($2150 all up). I was happy to pay that :) but i rekon they could have done better....

- Rob

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Paid $1500 for one today (WHD) at Domayne Alexadria. Got the Thomson HD-STB at the same time for $650, delivery included ($2150 all up). I was happy to pay that :blink: but i rekon they could have done better....

- Rob

oooh good stuff

thats pretty much bottom line on the tv isn't it not sure abou tthe stb price as I'll be building a htpc for those duties.

I am expecting a full detail report as soon as you have it setup :P

out of interest what convinced you to go the hd?

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out of interest what convinced you to go the hd?

Bang for the buck :) HDTV for $1500, bargin. I wanted a HDTV and didn't want to spend the earth on something. 3 yr warranty in house kinda sold me as well. But it really was the price that did it... I'm of the opinion that brands who have longer warranty expect their equipment to last. Pisses me off that the big brands expect us to pay even more for extended warranty.

I bought my Mum a Thomson 76cm 16x9 SDTV + Thomson SD-STBa while back (18 ago) and it was cheap as chips and did the job. Only get to watch it when i'm there :) I only paid $900 for that TV and $300 for the STB, so $1500 for same sized but HD and component inputs, good enough for right now.

As a side note, I've only seen the HDA model in the 86cm. No HDA for the 76 (unless thats what they send tomorrow)... Oh and i should mention. The style of it is very ordinary. I really like the Panasonic 200A in terms of style... this thing has $1500 style :)

- Rob

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Paid $1500 for one today (WSHD)
Congrats on your purchase Rob.
Bang for the buck :P HDTV for $1500, bargin. I wanted a HDTV and didn't want to spend the earth on something. Plus i live in a share flat so really didn't want to buy a panel/more expensive brand.
My thoughts too, if it lasts until the LCDs come down in price and improve in PQ, I'll be more than happy.
Oh and i should mention. The style of it is very ordinary. I really like the Panasonic 200A in terms of style... this thing has $1500 style
Quite so, but it has $4000 PQ unlike the Panasonic 200A; which has $2000 PQ in a $3000 box.

I really only look at my TV when it's on. :blink:

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Can anyone comment on PQ comparisons between the 86cm and 76cm Palsonic models?

I can't view an 86cm model here in Adelaide only the 76cm.

Trying to decide if it's worth ordering in the 86cm model.

Thanks

Philby

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I'm not sure if its the same bow, This will look lame but I'll attempt to show you what I mean

___________

|                  \

|                   |

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No that's not the problem and you might have enough correction to fix that but you will never get a perfect geometrically correct pic from a domestic set the Grade A studio monitors are around 40 grand.

Humm, this may well be true of direct view CRT TV's but my 147cm Hitachi CRT HD RPTV has near perfect geometry, with total geometry errors of under 1mm over the entire, very big screen area.

It's 2004, so I would expect at least reasonable performance from direct view CRT's, even the cheap ones. It’s not like CRT technology has had insufficient development time.

The 80cm 4:3 models seem to be generally ok so I don’t think there is much excuse for the poor geometry with the small 16:9 models.

Just my two cents worth.

Owen

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I am expecting a full detail report as soon as you have it setup :blink:

Photo of Nemo here:

http://www.rovingrob.com/Image133.jpg

An initial report. I still have to re-arange the lounge etc, which will happen, sometime today...

I like it. Bigger than i expected, i bought my mum a 76cm WS (Thomson) about 18m ago and it looks big at her place. At the stores i visited this thing looked small. Got it home and it's just the right size for my apartment.

Ended up buying the TIMRÅ from Ikea, it takes 100kg and is on rollers, nice and easy for vaccuuming.

Fixed the geometry (was out, but easily fixed) and plugged the Thomson in on HD component. All is good. For some reason there are lots of small H-Lines scrolling in HD2 mode. Anyone else out there with the Thomson? (what are your settings?).

Plugged the DVD player into the DVD-component inputs. Nemo has never looked so good. I have a Pioneer 266, which is Progressive capable but when i switch to progressive mode the picture buggers up. Little help? I realise the whole "no pal progressive" from the DVD player, so i switched to Stargate UE. No different.

Thats it for now...

- Rob

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Progressive capable but when i switch to progressive mode the picture buggers up. Little help?
The DVD input on the 76WSHD is YCbCr (interlaced)
... my 147cm Hitachi CRT HD RPTV has near perfect geometry, with total geometry errors of under 1mm over the entire, very big screen area.
Probably the main, and only, advantage of a rear projection system is the ability to reduce convergence and geometric errors by narrowing the beam deflection angel with the increased ray path. This CRT has to span a 90-degree deflection angle while the 147cm Hitachi RPTV would have a beam deflection angle more it the 45 to 15 degree range.

You're trying to compare apples with oranges.

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... my 147cm Hitachi CRT HD RPTV has near perfect geometry, with total geometry errors of under 1mm over the entire, very big screen area.
Probably the main, and only, advantage of a rear projection system is the ability to reduce convergence and geometric errors by narrowing the beam deflection angel with the increased ray path. This CRT has to span a 90-degree deflection angle while the 147cm Hitachi RPTV would have a beam deflection angle more it the 45 to 15 degree range.

You're trying to compare apples with oranges.

That is true, but any error on a RPTV CRT is magnified about 8 times and therefore needs to be 8 times more accurate.

The large 4:3 CRT TV's dont seem to have the geometric errors of the 16:9 models, even though the deflection angle is very similar.

I also have a Sony Flat screen 21” PC monitor. This is a short neck CRT design, typical of most new CRT PC monitors.

It has a deflection angle of between 80-90deg and has perfect geometry and convergence, even at ridiculous resolutions and refresh rates.

The main reason that the Hitachi RPTV is so good, is because it uses an advanced digital dynamic beam correction system as do all modern CRT RPTV’s that allows almost unlimited adjustment and correction of beam position.

The PC monitors probably have a similar, though less sophisticated system.

I can see no excuse for modern 16:9 CRT TV’s to have serious geometry problems as the technology to correct it is well established and just does not cost that much.

It just seems like short sighted cost saving and profit maximization to me.

The prices asked for 76 and 86cm 16:9 TV’s in Australia seem completely disproportionate to there size and performance IMHO.

Regards,

Owen

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This is a private message is sent to Hendo about 1 1/2 weeks ago.

"I have this tv and a fox box, a JVC S-VHS, a Topfield TF3000T SD STB, a JVC all in one 5.1 home theatre.

I have similar problems to you (Hendo) and even made a separate post at the problem.

This is my 2nd TV and the 1st failed inside 2 weeks back in Dec 03.

Home service repair man came to have a look at the issues. Over the phone he asked if I could give him a hand to load it into the van. When he got here and saw the problems (Same as yours plus sound dropout, linearity issues) he said no way will he take the set as it has multiple parts failure and requires a replacement. He spoke with Palsonic who authorized the replacement through the store it was purchased at, being Retravision Maroochydore. Hopefully it should arrive later this week.

Hope I get the new A model. I even asked if I could upgrade to the 86cm version and pay the difference. Yet to hear on that one.

I shall let you know. Maybe 3rd time lucky."

UPDATE: 19.07.04

The new TV arrived this morning. I have been told it is the A model, by the delivery gents and by the sales team and they where told by the Palsonic Rep. The delviery docket only says 76WSHD.

Now this is where I need the assistance of the good readers here. Has anyone seen the A model in the flesh. Nowhere on the box nor the unit is A identified. The remote still as the original buttons down the left hand side, whereas the pdf file from Palsonic web site shows that the A model remote has botton removed. The menu has not changed, again the pdf file displays a slightly different menu structure.

I feel like I've been mislead.

Can anyone tell me it the A model sets has an A on it anywhere.

Now for the small review.

The new TV does not have any linearity issues that I can see after 10 minutes watching.

I do not own or have access to a HD STB so I cannot comment there.

The Topfield SD STB appears to be just as good a picture as the previous set.

More news as it comes to hand.

Raeandy

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thanks for the update magicrob still happy with it?

Interesting reading Raeandy, I would of presumed on the back it would of mentioned the A model

So this unit appears to be performing better? How long did the replacement process take?

I should be purchasing either the hd or hda version this thurs so I'm cramming as much research in as I can atm.

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thanks for the update magicrob still happy with it?

very... for the price, you can't beat it... and i figured i'd rather pay $1500 than > $2K. Watched Chicken Run saturday night and Meet the Parents last night. Both on 9HD and they were fantastic. Gave Shrek and Nemo a spin over Component and it was FAN-BLOODY-TASTIC. Watched the Sunday Footy Show (NRL) and it was good too (well the studio stuff anyway). Got to love HDTV... Still have to give it a go with my PC and the VP-DVB-t card...

The only issue i have is that i need something to calibrate the Bright/Contrast levels :blink: It's bloody difficult to do it by eye against regular viewing... The only other issue is setting up P.Scan on the DVD player. Would like to see some NTSC P.scan but really am not fussed. Interlaced over component is bloody excellent....

btw, if you're after one of the WHD models (not the A) as em if they can do it for $1400, i rekon they'd consider it. They were very quick to jump to $1499 for me... wondered how much more room they had. You could get your self very good value for money if you pushed.

Btw the TV weighs a bloody heap, so be aware of what you're going to sit it on.... you wouldn't want it to break...

- Rob

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The only issue i have is that i need something to calibrate the Bright/Contrast levels :blink: It's bloody difficult to do it by eye against regular viewing...

Rob I’ve got the ABC test pattern in a Rar file @732KB once you have your PC hooked up.

Don’t forget the 76WSHD has 2 picture presets the Image and Text. There’s no difference between the 2 you can set either to suit your requirements. I have one set for night room lighting and one set for day curtains open.

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Don’t forget the 76WSHD has 2 picture presets the Image and Text. There’s no difference between the 2 you can set either to suit your requirements. I have one set for night room lighting and one set for day curtains open.

yeah i saw those.

how do you set them up?

- Rob

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how do you set them up?

Just select either text or image then alter B&C then select the other (text/image) and alter B&C, close menu. That's it. IMHO, better labelling of the menu option would be Day/Night rather than Text/Image.

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Hi All,

I'm in perth, newbie.

Couple of Q's..

1. Is there any consensus on the shd vs. shda? Are all of the 'a' models bad or are they better?

2. Has anyone used a HDTV card in a HTPC with XGA out to give 1080i on the Pal 76wshd(a)? if so what TV and video cards do you use?

3. What is the max. 'real' resolution available using the VGA port? The manual shows modes 3-11 as being XGA modes, is it possible to get 'real' 1920x1080 from a computer video card and display it on this set without resampling it down to the monitors native resolution (does anyone know what this is?)

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Richie

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1. Is there any consensus on the shd vs. shda? Are all of the 'a' models bad or are they better?
Can’t help on this one. I've only got the one set , a 76WSHD.
2. Has anyone used a HDTV card in a HTPC with XGA out to give 1080i on the Pal 76wshd(a)? if so what TV and video cards do you use?
It's hard to say what the TV locks into as there are 6 or more Adoptive Standards for the set to choose from. However it is showing the Adoptive Standard to be 37.8KHz x 60Hz. I use a Radeon 9200 card in my HTPC and run the 76WSHD off it just as if it were a standard PC Monitor. I set the desktop reso to 800x600 so the PC menus are big enough to read from the sofa. You could run 1024x768 if you wanted to use binoculars to read the screen. The video layer from the Radeon 9200 card is unaffected by the desktop settings.
3. What is the max. 'real' resolution available using the VGA port? The manual shows modes 3-11 as being XGA modes, is it possible to get 'real' 1920x1080 from a computer video card and display it on this set without resampling it down to the monitors native resolution (does anyone know what this is?)
I found the 76WSHD is happier useing an input of 576p than 1080i from my STB. I think you'd be hard pressed to find some 'real' 1920x1080 in Oz.
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Thanks BigH,

I use a Radeon 9200 card in my HTPC and run the 76WSHD off it just as if it were a standard PC Monitor. I set the desktop reso to 800x600 so the PC menus are big enough to read from the sofa. You could run 1024x768 if you wanted to use binoculars to read the screen. The video layer from the Radeon 9200 card is unaffected by the desktop settings

.

How do you play DVDs from your HTPC with the res set to 800x600 ie. 4:3 don't you want the 16:9 aspect for DVD? Or am I missing the point, in that the 'video layer?' output from the radeon is something different altogether.

Regards,

richie

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How do you play DVDs from your HTPC with the res set to 800x600 ie. 4:3 don't you want the 16:9 aspect for DVD?

The dimensions of the computer desktop fill the dimensions of the TV screen there is no need to alter anything. The desktop is a much lower reso that the Video layer.

The desktop is stretched from 4:3 to 16:9. the desktop icons are stretched but the video layer is set to be anamorphic (squeezed) in the HTPC software and is HiRes so when that hits the TV, it too, becomes stretched but because it was squeezed to start with now looks normal and is 16:9. Bit like the fat lady looking in the slim fairground mirror. Well the other way around in fact.

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Big Ups to BigH,

I'll take it that this means everything will be Ok? :blink:

I think I understand what you are saying

I'm just trying to get the right TV set to build a HTPC around. From what I can gather the

76WSHD is good value and can be run at good res. via the XGA port. What software and card(s) do you use in your HTPC?

Cheers

Richie

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What software and card(s) do you use in your HTPC?

Hardware

Monitor: Palsonic 76WSHD

Graphics Card: PowerColor ATi Radeon 9200, the one without the fan keep the noise down.

PCI Digital Tuner cards: 2 VisionPlus

CPU: P4 2.8

Mobo: Asus P4S8X

Sound card: onboard SP/Dif

HDD: 3 Western Digital 120GB

DVD: LiteOn 8xR/W

PSU: JustCooler 400Watt

Software

DigitalWatch, WebScheduler and Classic Media Player

Running Spectrum DBA drivers

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Well it appears I was provided with yet another standard model even though the Palsonic Rep claimed it was an A.

I shall be receiving a true A model Thursday or Friday. So after using 3 x 76WSHD and the still to come 76WSHD-A I shall give my personal opinion and compare the qualities of the 2 sets for those interested.

As mentioned before I do not have a HTPC nor a HD STB.

I do however have a PC with a ATI 9800, Topfield 3000t SD STB, JVC SVHS video and an Austar box. I was playing Call of Duty upon the set yesterday and it was very nice.

So if anyone wants any specific questions answered or tests performed please ask.

Regards

Raeandy.

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Well it appears I was provided with yet another standard model even though the Palsonic Rep claimed it was an A.

Raeandy,

What's the best way to tell the difference between the models? Serial numbers?

Regards

Philby

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Hi Raeandy

Definately interested in your reports on the general picture quality of the hda using your stb. I was all set to get the hda hearing that it fixed some problems but then heard reports of attrocious picture quality. I'm hoping it was just a faulty set and yours runs beautfully. If you could please let us know as soon as you get it it would be really appreciated as I was going to hand over the cash on thursday night :/

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Let us all (well me in particular) hope the new model is just fine in picture quality.

As for the model and serial numbers this is my current:

Model: 76WSHD

Serial: 3011760089

I shall post the new batch numbers when the set arrives Thursday or Friday.

Cheers

PS: Just so you know I connect as

VGA - PC

YCbCr - SD STB

AV1 s-video - Austar feeding through the Video

AV2 s-video - DVD

Normally the DVD would also be YCbCr if I didn't have the STB connected as the DVD is not progressive PAL output.

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Thanks. I decided not to be lazy and had a look on their web site. I guess the 76WSHDA model must replace the 76WSHD as it is the only one mentioned.

I followed the thread on the 86WSHD for some time but it seem you needed to get the removalists in just to move it. Must be fun taking it back under warranty.

Raeandy I notice you are getting a free 3 year warranty. (In home for Sydney metro only).

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The 3 year in home warranty is standard from memory for all their TV's over 68cm.

I'm at Buderim next to Maroochydore on the Sunshine Coast in Qld approx100 north of Brisbane. There is a local authorised repairer. Retrovision and the service guys come to me. I don't have to lift a finger.

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