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SAMSUNG 61”, 56", 50” & 46", HD 3 Panel LCD RPTVs.

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It's great to see so much discussion re: PC connectivity

At the moment, a PC with a $300 digital TV card is the only cost effective way to record and playback High Definition.

Using a PC to play standard DVDs is also vastly superior due to the PC's ability to enhance the image through software filters, not to mention the DVI connection which means digital all the way from the pits on the disk, right through to the cells on the LCD panel.

It is a tweakers domain tho. You're always wanting to try that extra "adjustment" or updated driver.

It certainly keeps the enthusiasm going when you get that next little boost in PQ which translates into a better viewing experience.

Glo

I think Lamplife is similar on both displays (up to 10,000 hrs). I have had my set for 12 months and only have 680 hours up (I only use it for HD or DVD playback, normal viewing is done on my trusty 26" which is also connected to my HTPC).

I've heard mention of lamp prices of around $600 - $800. It might be some time before anyone on this forum needs to find out for sure tho.

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what are the bulb life and replacemtne cost for the Samsung 61 and LG 60?

The 50 inch version of the Samsung lists the bulb life as 8000 hours. Dunno how much they cost though.

bags

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replacing a bulb is always better than throwing away a plasma in 10 years!

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I just tested out VGA on my DH2000A and the picture was perfect on my 61” Sammy.

Hey Hari,

Thanks for checking that out. Here's the odd thing: I logged a support request with Samsung Oz about the weird interlaced line problem I am having, and I've just got an email (and a phone call!) back from them. Here's the quote:

"The 15 pin vga input is only for pc only and not a set top box.You have to use component inputs to display your set top box."

Weird huh? I wonder if the 50" is different to the 61"? Seems unlikely. And it seems strange that it would be so close to working perfectly, with the exception of those damn lines only when there's motion in the image!

So you definitely don't get any visible lines when there's movement? Also, can you tell me which HD setting on the dgtec are you using?

Just for everyone elses information, I asked about the remote control and the grey border. Here are the rather disappointing replies:

"The manual says that you can operate vcr's and dvd's with it. That is only for Samsung models. The overseas model tv has the ability to operate different brands of equipment only."

"You cannot get a full screen via the pc input as this product is not a monitor and the scaling system is different to a monitor."

bags

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Disappointing news Bags....i'm glad you followed it up mate.

I was leaning towards the Samsung, but not now :blink:

cheers

O-3

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Ok, heres the $10,000 question!

Say Santa says to me " you can either have a Hi-Def 42 inch plasma or the 61inch LCD Samsung!.

What would you put on the list?

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Hey Hari,

So you definitely don't get any visible lines when there's movement? Also, can you tell me which HD setting on the dgtec are you using?

Yes I definitely don’t get any visible lines when there's movement etc the picture is perfect.

Also the HD setting I’m using on the DH2000A is HD1 but HD2 and TV work perfectly fine as well. :blink:

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Ok, heres the $10,000 question!

Say Santa says to me " you can either have a Hi-Def 42 inch plasma or the 61inch LCD Samsung!.

What would you put on the list?

Im asking this here, because I am torn between the two!

And in this thread you guys know about the Samsung!

Please let me hear why the Samsung over a HD 42 inch Plasma!

Thanks in advance.

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You are going to have to make up your own mind up but maybe you already have...:blink:

replacing a bulb is always better than throwing away a plasma in 10 years!

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Hi Hari,

The model in question is the Panasonic TH-42PHW5AZ

and obiviously the Samsung 61" LCD RPTV.

Looking forward to your feedback

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Bags,

what you are experiencing is "Interlace Artifacts". The difference between interlace and progressive is the subject of a lot of technical discussion.(http://www.dvddemystified.com/dvdfaq.html)

The DGTEC takes the 1080i (interlaced) HD signal and converts it to progressive output on the 15 pin VGA output. This is because this is really a "computer monitor" connection and most computer monitors expect a progressive signal. The component output on the other hand, remains "interlaced" so any conversion (if required) is done within the monitor itself.

There is a downside to converting interlace to progressive and that is "motion artifacts". The lines or comb effect you are seeing is caused by the dgtec not "compensating" for the different way that motion has to be handled when interlace is converted to progressive.

Simply put, an interlace signal has 50 images per second and each image is displayed in pairs of odd and even lines, each pair making a frame of 25 frames per second. In an interlace signal, the image can change 50 times a second. In progressive, only 25 times. If you combine the 2 fields of a frame and don't compensate for the slight movement that might have occured between the two fields you get each second line displaying the slight difference and hence the comb effect.

The dvddemystified site does a better job of explaining.

There are some conditions that can help overcome these artifacts almost as a fluke. eg. Setting the digitec to TV or HD2 might alter the output resolution which might have a side effect of "smoothing" or blending and thereby making the artifacts less obvious. Some people don't notice as much as others (like some people don't suffer rainbow effects on DLP displays).

As to whether the 50" handles VGA differently to the 61", only Samsung would know (I'd be surprised if there was a difference)

The bottom line is, if you stick with component output of the dgtec set to HD1 and allow the display to "figure it out", you shouldn't have any problems.

If you want to use the VGA connection of your display, that would be better connected to a computer.

Nearly all computers have built in motion compensation hardware as standard, (and gives a far superior DVD playback in my opinion.) I would even dare to say that with a properly adjusted PC, using the right software (and image enhancement tools), a PC image via DVI (even with the grey border) would be far better than any method of analog input (component or VGA). But then, I'm an HTPC bigot :blink:

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Hi Hari,

The model in question is the Panasonic TH-42PHW5AZ

and obiviously the Samsung 61" LCD RPTV.

Looking forward to your feedback

1280x720 - Samsung

1024 x 768 Pixels - TH-42PHW5AZ

I have not seen the TH-42PHW5AZ so I can not comment on how the picture quality is etc but imo I would not pay $13,199 for a display which only has a resolution of 1024 x 768.

Also the risk of Burn-in was one of the factors I decided on not getting a plasma display, LCD technology does not suffer from Burn-in.

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I have not seen the TH-42PHW5AZ so I can not comment on how the picture quality is etc but imo I would not pay $13,199 for a display which only has a resolution of 1024 x 768.

what if the $$$ was the same?

Also, all of the other Samsung owners!

I presume that you have crossed this path before, what else can you add?

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I have not seen the TH-42PHW5AZ so I can not comment on how the picture quality is etc but imo I would not pay $13,199 for a display which only has a resolution of 1024 x 768.

what if the $$$ was the same?

Also, all of the other Samsung owners!

I presume that you have crossed this path before, what else can you add?

I would still go for the Samsung.

42" is too small for me also the risk of burn-in puts me off Plasma Displays. :ph34r:

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what you are experiencing is "Interlace Artifacts".

hi smoothchat,

Thanks for the response, but, umm... nope... what I'm exeriencing is definitely NOT the usual interlacing artefacts. It's an artefact that is very similar, but it exists ONLY across about 8 scanlines, about two thirds of the way down the screen and running across the full width of the screen.

I took a closeup snapshot of it so if you're interested, it's the second picture at the following URL:

http://homepage.powerup.com.au/~wieden/samsung.htm

Everything above this anomalous strip is fine, as is everything below it, however, the bottom portion is one frame behind the top portion, so on a scene change you see one section momentarily longer than the other.

I suspect you're right about the problem being related to the conversion to progressive scan, but it is definitely not just a simple interlacing issue.

I've also confirmed that the artefact is caused by the Samsung, and not the dgtec, as I've just had the dgtec replaced to fix another problem, and this line still occurs in the same place.

I should stress that I'm not particularly bothered by this, as I don't want to use the VGA port with the dgtec box. Component is just fine, and I need to keep the VGA free for computer input anyway. I'm just posting the information in case other users have the same problem (or if it helps potential buyers to make an informed purchasing decision).

So basically, at the moment, I still don't know if:

a) it's not supposed to work, and hari's just happens to for some reason

:blink: it is supposed to work, and mine just doesn't for some reason

c) the big 61" sucker that hari has is somehow different to my 50"

Samsung reckons (a)

Anyway... that's all from me for now. Cheers.

bags

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Bags after looking at the picture of the interlacing problem I checked my Samsung again (inch by inch) and I can confirm it does NOT have any interlacing problems.

Now if I was you I would go down to a local store with the 50" Samsung get them to Hookup the DH2000A using the VGA port and check to see if it has the interlacing problem.

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Bags,

I've believe that a couple of the LG's had something similar via the dgtec, and it was fixed with a software upgrade installed by a technician.

Pardon my ignorance, but is there some restriction of screen resolutions that your display can accept?

The DGTEC outputs 1280*1024 VGA in HD1 setting and slightly higher on HD2. If the set is only supposed to accept a lower resolution via VGA, then it's a bonus if it works at all on a higher resolution. The 61" might have just had that little bit more tolerance.

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The Samsung 50” & 61” can accept 1674 x 944 Resolution through VGA input using powerstrip.

But when connecting a computer it has a gray boarder around the screen like you see in bags picture this was done by Samsung.

But when you connect the DGTEC (using a VGA Cable) the boarder is gone and it can accept 1080i etc input.

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So the Samsung will accept a 1280*1024 signal ? Because that's what the dgtec puts out on it's VGA connector on HD1.

Pardon my ignorance again, but if Samsung are saying that the display was designed to accept 1024*768 via VGA (and the PC 'normally' detects that the monitor has a maximum res of 1024*768 using DDC, and not withstanding powerstrip's ability to override the DDC values), then it would seem that a 1280*1024 image (downsampled internally to 1280*720) is a bonus which may or may not work depending on the "tolerance" of your particular unit (kinda like what happens in the PC world where some PCs can be forced to run a bit faster if they have slightly higher tolerances).

As it happens, I run my display at 1024*768 for DVD playback in anycase, as the scaling that occurs at that resolution does a good job of eliminating any hint of jaggies and a higher res serves no purpose as the original DVD is only 720*576 anyway.

Where you would want the higher VGA resolution is when you want to play High Definition recordings. I'm sure I've mentioned before, $300 is all it costs to be able to record High Definition TV using your PC.

A point to note is that under windows XP, you can tell the display driver to ignore the limitations that the monitor reports during PC startup. This is just a checkbox under the display/adaptor tab. You are then free to select any resolution that your card can output (be wary of screen refresh rates as well as the display size).

If the DGTEC HD1 VGA works, then you "must" be able to get the same result from your PC VGA output (once you ignore the monitor limits).

Just set the checkbox, and then set the PC to 1280*1024 and it should work, and by my understanding, without the border. I don't know what would happen with a DVI connection tho.

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Hmm good point smoothchat, ill get down to some more testing and I will post back later on today.

yikes... i think i've opened a can of worms :blink:

Since you guys have so kindly checked out this oddity, I'll feel left out unless I do some more testing over the weekend too!

That'd be cool if the Samsung could be sorted with a firmware upgrade. Just hope they don't adopt the same policy as dgtec for firmware upgrades and require the unit to be returned. I don't think Australia Post make padded bags that big :P

bags

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I created a Driver for the Samsung 61" using PowerStrip and now I can run the Samsung at 1280 * 720 (The Samsungs Native resolution.) and its full screen no boarder yay. (The picture looks awesome) :P

There is about 2" of overscan but it will be easy to fix because I have not setup the proper timings for the Samsung yet.

I'm still reading up PowerStrip FAQs etc since I’m relatively new to the program. :blink:

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