Jump to content

Sign in to follow this  
Serpeant

Pre-Amp/Power Amp vs Integrated Amp - why not get the intregrated one?

Recommended Posts

I've just been looking at the Integra components.

 

I've seen the Integra DRC-R1 11.2 for a very similar price to the Integra DRX-R1 11.2 (say $200-$300 difference after discount).

The Integra DRC-R1 11.2 is a pre-amp only.

The Integra DRX-R1 11.2 is an integrated 200wpc amp.

 

They seem like they are exactly the same, just one has a amp built in.

 

For only a little bit more, why would you not get the Integrated amp?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think at that level the one with the amps in it would be the one to get, could always just get a power amp to feed the fronts but probably not needed, there are reviews on the older 70.4 even in here where people say they can't tell difference with this and a pre with poweramps.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Serpeant  it gives some indication to me of the kind of power amp you are buying within the integrated. why buy the integrated ? if happy enough with the amp within. cant fit in two boxes, cant afford two boxes.

 

but even a cursory look at details on both will give some clues just how basic the power amp side is on the integrated. 

check here will see the pre amp uses about 65W and weighs about 13 kg which is decent for an av processor,

http://www.integrahometheater.com/Products/model.php?m=DRC-R1&class=Preamplifier&source=prodClass

 

extra3.jpg

 

the avr with pre amp and amp integrated....

 

http://www.integrahometheater.com/Products/model.php?m=DRX-R1&class=Receiver&source=prodClass

 

extra3.jpg

 

weighs 19.5kg so 6.5kg more and the dead give away it draws 340W max off the wall i.e. 275w off the wall more than the av processor.

 

now put this in perspective its supposed to be able to power 11 ? channels . even if it had 100% efficiency thats 275/11 = 25wpc flat chat all channels driven !!! which isn't a heck of a lot in any ones books when comes to power reserves.

 

it is a class D amp and it will still even though so will not have 100% efficiency  and claims like 200wpc is marketing and simply not going to be possible given its max consumption of 340w from the wall. 

 

good enough probably in bang for buck categories, but there are much gutsier avrs if looking for one. this one probably isn't one of those, it could be useful say running surrounds / heights etc and using an external amp for mains centre rest. but can do much better power amp wise i would think. the power stage in this one apparently comes from pioneer as happens ...

 

as a note integra/onkyo have offered multi channel power amps to partner their av processors but really they have just been separations for convenience ...ie the power amps have just been along same lines of what they build in AVRs. with same issues of massive power claims not really backed up with what they claim amps actually consumes ....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks to both of you for your opinions, even though they make me even more confused!

 

So Al, are you basically saying that the integrated amp cant be good when compared to a separate power amp?

 

I hear what you are saying in theory, but in practice, will you notice?

 

I am trying to drive power hungry Krix Neuphonix and Epicentrix.

 

I do have an Emotiva Power amp that I could use to power the main speakers since the Integra DRX-R1 11.2 has pre-outs.

 

What are your thoughts on this?

 

The alternative is to get the Integra DRC-R1 pre-amp and an Elektra Power Amp, but thats gonna cost me a lot more!

Edited by Serpeant

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


1 minute ago, Serpeant said:

are you basically saying that the integrated amp cant be good when compared to a separate power amp?

 

well there's quite a bit of price difference between them so that's not a fair game to begin with.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Serpeant said:

I am trying to drive power hungry Krix Neuphonix and Epicentrix.

 

know these and indeed power hungry and deserve some decent power amps in my books whether emotiva or elektra is your choice. 

 

using the mains off power amp and rest off avr is a intermediate and many of us have been there. the epicentrix deserves some decent power though i would suggest. that in itself is one serious centre channel ! 

 

as per happy above, no its not a fair game, but its for you to pick between. what feel good enough wiht what can afford :)

 

if wanting to go the AVR route i would suggest thoughthere are some gutsier ones about particularly if planning to load up channels :) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, :) al said:

using the mains off power amp and rest off avr is a intermediate and many of us have been there. the epicentrix deserves some decent power though i would suggest. that in itself is one serious centre channel ! 

 

So, purchase the Integra DRX-R1 11.2 integrated amp for $4k ish and power the mains with my current Emotiva XPA-5 and the rest with the Integra DRX-R1 11.2.

 

OR

 

purchase the Integra DRC-R1 11.2 pre-amp and an Elektra for about $6.5k and power with the Elektra and my current Emotiva XPA-5?

 

OR

 

purchase a Marantz 7702 pre-amp  if I can find one  and an Elektra for about $6k and power with the Elektra and my current Emotiva XPA-5?

 

To save some $$$, I'm leaning towards the 1st option unless there will be significant performance difference?

Edited by Serpeant

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Serpeant said:

So, purchase the Integra DRX-R1 11.2 integrated amp for $4k ish and power the mains with my current Emotiva XPA-5 and the rest with the Integra DRX-R1 11.2.

 

depends what sort of overall system you have and what chasing. 

 

isn't the emotiva xpa-5 a 5 channel amp ?, genuine 200wpc if remember ? going the AVR route....  I would be running L&R mains, centre and L&R surrounds of the emo, and using the avr to run rest (rear surrounds and heights etc if have them). as an intermediate I would suggest you'd end up a pretty good result :)

 

an all out approach would be pre amp and elektra and emo giving you some 12 channels i.e. to do 7.1.4 off power amps and using a dedicated processor. what are the gains in pre amp stage in avr vs dedicated pre amp ? gains using the stand alone amps vs ones built in ...theres a few factors, probably one you wouldn't resolve without checking out :) and then there is also budget. and whether spending the extra $2k ish is worth it to you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


56 minutes ago, Serpeant said:

 

So, purchase the Integra DRX-R1 11.2 integrated amp for $4k ish and power the mains with my current Emotiva XPA-5 and the rest with the Integra DRX-R1 11.2.

 

OR

 

purchase the Integra DRC-R1 11.2 pre-amp and an Elektra for about $6.5k and power with the Elektra and my current Emotiva XPA-5?

 

OR

 

purchase a Marantz 7702 pre-amp  if I can find one  and an Elektra for about $6k and power with the Elektra and my current Emotiva XPA-5?

 

To save some $$$, I'm leaning towards the 1st option unless there will be significant performance difference?

 

I had the DHC 80.3 before going to the Marantz 7702 MkII (both runnuing off a Elektra Theatron) and the sound is chalk and cheese. Integra is high on detail but sounds lean compared to the Marantz.

 

I prefer the Marantz sound but you may not...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
59 minutes ago, Serpeant said:

 

So, purchase the Integra DRX-R1 11.2 integrated amp for $4k ish and power the mains with my current Emotiva XPA-5 and the rest with the Integra DRX-R1 11.2.

That looks like the simple solution, others are great but really just chasing that 1 or 2 percent improvement.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Counter intuitively I found when I added my 7 ch power amp to my flagship but aging Onkyo TX-SR805 AVR, before I got the Integra processor, that it was low level performance where the system performed better. I could listen at lower levels overall and still clearly hear dialogue. Of course a power amp will also allow huge dynamic range compared to most AVR amp stages these days... if you want to listen at true reference levels, and most people don't want to for fear of killing their equipment.

 

The old Onkyo AVR I replaced was a beast at close to 30kg's so had old school THX Ultra 2 certified grunt we don't see in AVRs these days but the processor side of it was what was holding it back, not the power side, now I'd suggest the opposite is true of AVRs. There's a reason the price difference is so small, the amp stage is an after thought.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

PS, an integrated "multi-channel processor and power amp" is generally referred to as a receiver.  The term "Integrated amp" is usually reserved for 2 channel, stereo amps.  

And yes, most receivers these days have seriously lacking power sections.  They are only there as an afterthought.

Edited by Cafad

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


5 hours ago, Cafad said:

PS, an integrated "multi-channel processor and power amp" is generally referred to as a receiver.  The term "Integrated amp" is usually reserved for 2 channel, stereo amps.  

And yes, most receivers these days have seriously lacking power sections.  They are only there as an afterthought.

 

cafad I think you are just showing your predispositions here :D  I think the op just means integrated as in pre amp and power amp in one. there are indeed 2ch integrated amplifiers and AV Receivers as there are 2ch receivers as well. agree with you re most receivers. there are some better examples but generally get what you pay for and different brands do tend to put different value in these things.

 

23 hours ago, Serpeant said:

OR

 

purchase a Marantz 7702 pre-amp  if I can find one  and an Elektra for about $6k and power with the Elektra and my current Emotiva XPA-5?

 

to the OP, i noted this option added on, certainly worth exploring what can pick up, particularly 2nd hand or run out pricing should be tasty and especially since marantz has promised to make sure upto date to current spec, additionally have you noticed the below for sale ? at under $2k would be another option to add to your 5ch emo and would have you covered for 7 channels  power wise ...

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎24‎/‎08‎/‎2017 at 2:51 PM, Serpeant said:

purchase a Marantz 7702 pre-amp  if I can find one  and an Elektra for about $6k and power with the Elektra and my current Emotiva XPA-5?

 

To save some $$$, I'm leaning towards the 1st option unless there will be significant performance difference?

If you can the 7702 has audyssey ' also have you considered Anthem ? It has ongoing development of its well thought off ARC room eq ..

Theres some history about onkyo and why they dropped audyssey multi eq in favour of accu-eq Serpeant , Its to do with the processing power needed to process bass management as well as' decoding the object codecs etc  The simpler accu-eq  at least in earlier iterations doesn't touch  the main L.R channels at all ' which doesn't help integration :(  Translated from the German ;

 

Quote

What you can now recognize very well or perhaps at first sight almost not at all;), since there is simply no difference: The front speakers left and right are obviously not handled by AccuEQ.

Overplot_LFE

 

Theres other thoughts from certified THX consultants that aren't the best either unfortunately but theres always the choice of getting a sub with a built in room eq program for the important sub frequencies and running pass through for the avr./ pre pro:).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, cwt said:

The simpler accu-eq  at least in earlier iterations doesn't touch  the main L.R channels at all ' which doesn't help integration

To me that's a bonus and makes music listening improved over audyssey.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, powerav said:

To me that's a bonus and makes music listening improved over audyssey.

 

Yes powerav theres a plethora of dsp modes in these avr;s very important to check whether modes like direct ; pure audio or stereo bypass bass management etc or not . And whether an analog input feeds an adc converts to lpcm then processed before the dac or its a true analog passthrough -  if your not doing it digitally  as you suggest :)

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


9 hours ago, cwt said:

If you can the 7702 has audyssey ' also have you considered Anthem ? It has ongoing development of its well thought off ARC room eq ..

 

 

The only other power amp I have considered is the NAD M27. No one I know has heard how well these power Krix speakers though. :(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Serpeant said:

 

The only other power amp I have considered is the NAD M27. No one I know has heard how well these power Krix speakers though. :(

I would certainly consider those XPA1 monoblocks above to go with your emo 5ch if your on a budget Serpeant . If you want new though maybe sell the emo and get a wyred4sound class d from deephz . THE MC7150 is on special atm and can take a 4ohm load no problem :) The output [all channels driven] is very impressive compared to the average avr ..

 http://deephzaudio.com/Wyred 4 sound MC7150 product page.html

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Serpeant add above to one you have already thats 10 channels of power you arent going to be able to fit in any avr.... :D heck even 5 channels of power you cant fit in an avr

 

to that add pre amp of choice and stir... :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, :) al said:

@Serpeant add above to one you have already thats 10 channels of power you arent going to be able to fit in any avr.... :D heck even 5 channels of power you cant fit in an avr

 

to that add pre amp of choice and stir... :)

 

Cheers for that! The Integra R1 actually does 11 channels at 200 watts!!!!

 

Anyway, I've decided to wait of and the the successor to the Marantz 6012 so that it will have HDMI 2.1 compatibility. I've decided this because I dont need 200 watts for the ceiling or rear speakers.

Edited by Serpeant

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Serpeant said:

 

 The Integra R1 actually does 11 channels at 200 watts!!!!

 

 

 @Zaphod Beeblebrox:)

So they claim

 

I would love to see some actual test results though.

 

Anyway, I am glad you have it sorted and I hope it works out really well.

Edited by rantan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, rantan said:

 @Zaphod Beeblebrox:)

So they claim

 

I would love to see some actual test results though.

 

Anyway, I am glad you have it sorted and I hope it works out really well.

 

Damn you. I just snorted my water all over the computer monitor. 11 channels @ 200 Watts? Continuously? I'd like to see the manufacturer's specs on this. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Serpeant said:

I've decided this because I dont need 200 watts for the ceiling or rear speakers.

Nice to see some good ol' common sense.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, Serpeant said:

Cheers for that! The Integra R1 actually does 11 channels at 200 watts!!!!

 

good luck with that one.... as think showed above, if you like can believe the marketing you can, but in reality its more like 25w for those 11 channels and thats flat chat at 100% efficiency which no amp will ever manage even if it were an integra :)

 

22 minutes ago, Serpeant said:

so that it will have HDMI 2.1 compatibility

 

and good luck with that one too for what ever reason you need it :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...