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Irek

yamaha av receiver rx-v781 + Musica Fidelity m5si

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Hi there, 

Does anyone has experience with yamaha av receiver rx-v781 connected to integrated amplifier musical fidelity m5si? Is it working well? I have the m5si and I am planing to buy avr with pre out , something like yamaha av receiver rx-v781. 

Cheers, 

Irek

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Should be great, best of both worlds, all of the Integra avr's except the first model have pre outs so maybe worth checking out.

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I originally was going to purchase a RXV781 but then went for a RXA3060, obviously there is a big difference in price between those two models but as the 60 model range is now on run out there are some very good deals around. Why not look at the RXA1060 which is a very good step up option and not hugely different in price to the RXV if you haggle.

 

By the way I'm very happy with the Yamaha for AV duties and as it has got some serious hours up in it the SQ for 2-channel usage has dramatically improved as well which Is a real bonus.

 

Might be worth a shop around to see what deals are out there.

 

cheers Terry

Edited by TerryO

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Thanks Terry, 

The thing is I already have a really good integrated stereo amplifier for 2ch music. I just need some avr with preamp out and Yamaha v781 seems to have the best value. 

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Hi, the price looks very good. Any experience with this avr ?

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Hi, 

I ll try to make some review later but for now I can say this combination is really good. The sound of music in movie as well as sounds of special effects is jaw dropping. The movie is alive. 

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16 hours ago, Irek said:

Hi, 

I ll try to make some review later but for now I can say this combination is really good. The sound of music in movie as well as sounds of special effects is jaw dropping. The movie is alive. 

 

Irek, what did you buy in the end?

 

cheers Terry

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2 hours ago, TerryO said:

 

Irek, what did you buy in the end?

 

cheers Terry

Hi Terry, I bought Yamaha RX V781 and connected it to my Musical Fidelity M5si. When I was in shop I have tried Yamaha RX V781+Marantz 8005 against Yamaha RX A2060. The combo was much better. If I had budget $2000 I would go with new Yamaha RX V781 + used 2channel power amplifier (there are plenty on eBay). 

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Yeah I agree with above, I much prefer the smaller avr with preouts paired with a poweramp.

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How do you mean that the 'Combo' was better?

I suspect you found that the amp driving the main speakers didn't have as much load put onto it, as would the surround amp alone, hence having the effect of more control / Slam of the main speakers.

 

That's great if listening to music in a Stereo  'Main Speaker' only situation, using your surround amp as a pre, and switching as such.

 

But using a external amp to power the main speakers in a surround situation, especially if using Yamaha's YPAO surround speaker set up, with mic, could leave huge disparities between the measured setup, and the actual setup when used at volume when watching a movie, as the YPAO would have a disparate control over the internal AV receivers amplification, and little to none over the outboard power amp.....it's a gain ratio thing.

 

I also own a recent Yamaha HT amp, so know the situation.

 

 

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Hi

 

Have you thought of anything other than a Yamaha, as there are currently good deals on Integra at the Amber Technology Store on eBay.

 

A DTR-50.4, 7.2 with pres out for $749 less 20% = $599 and free post

 

I recently purchased one of their more upmarket AVR's and it was like new, probably was, no marks on it everything worked properly.

 

My $0.02 worth....

 

JJ

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38 minutes ago, Janjuc said:

Hi

 

Have you thought of anything other than a Yamaha, as there are currently good deals on Integra at the Amber Technology Store on eBay.

 

A DTR-50.4, 7.2 with pres out for $749 less 20% = $599 and free post

 

I recently purchased one of their more upmarket AVR's and it was like new, probably was, no marks on it everything worked properly.

 

My $0.02 worth....

 

JJ

This one does not seem to have audio analog pre-out.

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7 hours ago, PositivelyMusicallyGeared said:

This one does not seem to have audio analog pre-out.

Yes it does, all Integra models do except the entry 20.x series.

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8 hours ago, Janjuc said:

Hi

 

Have you thought of anything other than a Yamaha, as there are currently good deals on Integra at the Amber Technology Store on eBay.

 

A DTR-50.4, 7.2 with pres out for $749 less 20% = $599 and free post

 

I recently purchased one of their more upmarket AVR's and it was like new, probably was, no marks on it everything worked properly.

 

My $0.02 worth....

 

JJ

My favourite store, have bought probably 5 from here in the last 2 years.

 

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11 hours ago, Tweaky said:

How do you mean that the 'Combo' was better?

I suspect you found that the amp driving the main speakers didn't have as much load put onto it, as would the surround amp alone, hence having the effect of more control / Slam of the main speakers.

 

That's great if listening to music in a Stereo  'Main Speaker' only situation, using your surround amp as a pre, and switching as such.

 

But using a external amp to power the main speakers in a surround situation, especially if using Yamaha's YPAO surround speaker set up, with mic, could leave huge disparities between the measured setup, and the actual setup when used at volume when watching a movie, as the YPAO would have a disparate control over the internal AV receivers amplification, and little to none over the outboard power amp.....it's a gain ratio thing.

 

I also own a recent Yamaha HT amp, so know the situation.

 

 

I don't know how exactly it works but Yamaha took control over M5si. There is full integration between them. YPAO works perfect. I am using Chord RCA cables ($70) , Focal Electra 1008 as a main speakers and Focal Dome for the rest. So my system is 5.0.2 Dolby Atmos.

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12 hours ago, Tweaky said:

But using a external amp to power the main speakers in a surround situation, especially if using Yamaha's YPAO surround speaker set up, with mic, could leave huge disparities between the measured setup, and the actual setup when used at volume when watching a movie,

How is this the case? If the integrated amp has ht bypass then it will be fixed so the avr will be controlling the volume not the amp.

Edited by powerav

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11 hours ago, PositivelyMusicallyGeared said:

This one does not seem to have audio analog pre-out.

 

Hi

 

If you look at the picture of the back panel, there is a panel of pre outs at centre bottom just above the speaker terminals ....

 

JJ

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15 hours ago, Tweaky said:

How do you mean that the 'Combo' was better?

I suspect you found that the amp driving the main speakers didn't have as much load put onto it, as would the surround amp alone, hence having the effect of more control / Slam of the main speakers.

 

That's great if listening to music in a Stereo  'Main Speaker' only situation, using your surround amp as a pre, and switching as such.

 

But using a external amp to power the main speakers in a surround situation, especially if using Yamaha's YPAO surround speaker set up, with mic, could leave huge disparities between the measured setup, and the actual setup when used at volume when watching a movie, as the YPAO would have a disparate control over the internal AV receivers amplification, and little to none over the outboard power amp.....it's a gain ratio thing.

 

I also own a recent Yamaha HT amp, so know the situation.

 

 

 

hi tweaky integrated amps like the musical m5si the op is using has a ht bypass feature that bypasses the volume control on the integrated for ht use and makes the integrated effectively a power amp... i.e. ht bypass input is fed directly to power stage of the integrated.

 

Yamaha+RXV781+Yamaha-2.jpg

 

whittle OPs AVR for instance you take front left and right pre outs and feed to HT bypass input on the musical fidelity integrated. the ht bypass input is called Aux 1 HT as can see below and converts one of the inputs for that function. once done its engaged via front panel or remote when needed.

 

M5si%20Back%20rWEB.jpg

for 2ch duties all 2ch sources go direct to the musical fidelity integrated i.e. the AVR does not come in play. during av duties the musical fidelity is put in ht bypass mode and acts as power amp and all av sources feed the avr.

 

hope makes sense :)

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3 hours ago, powerav said:

How is this the case? If the integrated amp has ht bypass then it will be fixed so the avr will be controlling the volume not the amp.

 

It's not just a matter of volume, the amp will interact with the speakers differently than if driven by the surround amp alone, it's a matter of loading / speaker impedance of the integrateds power section differing from that of the surround amp's power section

I'm not suggesting it will sound worse, just different.

I've tried the same with my setup, but found running the main speakers powered via the separate amp made them overpowering in comparison to how it is/was if powered solely by the surround amp.

Apart from a lot more power on tap, it was possibly a matter of gain from the surround amps pre out, into the power section of the integrated amp, differing to what the integrated amp sounds like if driven by it's own pre section ,I'm not sure.

My intergrated didn't have HT pass through, so that's probably the cause.

I'm just reporting what I found when I tried this.

 

Edited by Tweaky

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35 minutes ago, Tweaky said:

It's not just a matter of volume, the amp will interact with the speakers differently than if driven by the surround amp alone, it's a matter of loading / speaker impedance of the integrateds power section differing from that of the surround amp's power section

I'm not suggesting it will sound worse, just different.

 

ofcourse it will, it one of reasons why  people are using because the power section of many integrated (AVRS) are pretty woeful compared to 2ch integrated units or stand alone power amps. the musical fidelity has 450w max consumtion for driving 2 channels vs the yamaha avr that has less 400W max for ALL the channels it needs to drive :)

 

35 minutes ago, Tweaky said:

I've tried the same with my setup, but found running the main speakers powered via the separate amp made them overpowering in comparison to how it is/was if powered solely by the surround amp.

 

have you recalibrated your setup at all ? 

 

35 minutes ago, Tweaky said:

Apart from a lot more power on tap, it was possibly a matter of gain from the surround amps pre out, into the power section of the integrated amp, differing to what the integrated amp sounds like if driven by it's own pre section ,I'm not sure.

My intergrated didn't have HT pass through, so that's probably the cause.

I'm just reporting what I found when I tried this.

 

not having a ht bypass is not such a bother (just a matter of convenience), i used a pre amp without ht bypass for quite some years. its just a matter of putting the vol knob on the integrated at 12 o'clock position. calibrating the av setup and then returning to that vol level on the integrated each time wanting to use for av :)

 

yes if you have massive gain differentials between your avr and 2ch integrated you will have issues... but this will become clear at point of calibration... is you will find you cannot calibrate for same level across the board :)

 

the other down fall of using the 2ch integrated / avr setup is the quality of amp feeding the centre channel particularly is likely no where near the capability/ or with the power reserves of the amp driving the main channels. however taking the load of the mains off the avr will help some in this regard.

 

you do also have to be careful of the opposite situation e.g. low wattage tube integrated to drive mains vs say a much more power full SS avr driving the centre channel. likely end in tears....

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33 minutes ago, :) al said:

 

hi tweaky integrated amps like the musical m5si the op is using has a ht bypass feature that bypasses the volume control on the integrated for ht use and makes the integrated effectively a power amp... i.e. ht bypass input is fed directly to power stage of the integrated.

 

Yamaha+RXV781+Yamaha-2.jpg

 

whittle OPs AVR for instance you take front left and right pre outs and feed to HT bypass input on the musical fidelity integrated. the ht bypass input is called Aux 1 HT as can see below and converts one of the inputs for that function. once done its engaged via front panel or remote when needed.

 

M5si%20Back%20rWEB.jpg

for 2ch duties all 2ch sources go direct to the musical fidelity integrated i.e. the AVR does not come in play. during av duties the musical fidelity is put in ht bypass mode and acts as power amp and all av sources feed the avr.

 

hope makes sense :)

Very good explanation! 

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I wish Yamaha would just sell new HT pre amp's with all the new tech in them that usually causes you to want, if not need, to update [usually video/HT Audio or HDMI related] at price point that would reflect that there were no power sections.

I'd be happy buy a really good 5 ch power amp, and not have to worry about upgrading every 4 or 5 years , but as it is, the major manufacturers usually leave these separate HT Pre sections in their top of the range, which generally make them uneconomic because it make the previous model drop value like a stone.

 

I love the Yamaha HT amps functionality, and it's relatively easy way to set up [YPAO], but the power sections of their HT amp did sound a bit anemic to me when I got it, compared to my previous Marantz HT amp, still do really, that what got me trying the power section of a unused integrated for the main channels......the result was the total opposite......Live and learn.

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@Tweaky

 

I found with our RXA3060 that when new it was, as you describe anaemic, but once it had around 200 hours on it the sq had improved markedly, to a point that I was quite happy to use it occasionally for 2-channel duties with Cd's and Tidel. 

 

If you compare all three of our amps together then is the Yamaha AVR as good for 2-channel duties as our PrimaLuna or MF M6i amps? No it's not, but it's much better at 2-channel duties than our other two amps are at HT duties. ... ;)

 

cheers Terry

Edited by TerryO

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Hi all

 

just to clarify something for me please regarding AVR and pre amps as I am not sure I get the gist.

 

Does this mean people are running an AVR amp with say 5.1 speaker setup, but because the output of the AVR amp may be 100w per channel they are using another amp (the pre amp, maybe 400w total) to separately power say the L & R speakers to get more "grunt"?

 

If so , is 100w per channel not sufficient for HT use with a decent set of speakers?

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