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With digital EQ you can do whatever you want. Even after SGR has left the building and it doesn't cost you anything. Do you have access to 4 different frequency response profiles that you can customise now and in the future at the flick of a button on a remote? Please correct me if I'm wrong!

Hey X, I have active SGR's, and I also have digital EQ so I can easily experiment and tune to "taste". It's really easy to add digital EQ to any system, I'm not sure what the relevance is?

My speakers were *alot* less than the rrp of the Octagons/MT3A's. Please dont get hung up on the 40k price point.

SGR generally make products to order. With this model, they tailor solutions to your needs and budgets. In this process there maybe abit of haggling/negotiating involved, which is really between the buyer and SGR.

SGR have a wide variety of products, which include passive models that can save you the price of their electronics if going active with their amps/crossovers is not important to you. I've heard a pair of passive Octagons, which sounded awesome.

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I think Terry makes a valid point. I heard SGRs ages ago and they are great, but if I was looking for speakers I would want to know what price range they are in. In fact, I felt similarly about Osborn until I found out the price, now I own Osborns. I can understand that made for order stuff involves haggling and the like but, given the very wide range of speaker prices, from a few thousand to 6 figures, it is very useful to know what range different speakers fit into. Personally I have always avoided sellers of anything who don't mention price, after all what is the point of going somewhere to find you can't afford anything, not worth the risk really. We can easily find the price of most speakers and it really is essential information.

As for the line about "go and visit them", well I'm not in the market for speakers so if I did visit them I would be wasting their time, something I feel is unfair and won't do.

Oh, and asking for price is not a criticism, it's just asking for essential information.

DS

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Again JohnA you're going way over the top. Stop the drama for goodness sake! For the love of god even if I was bashing or dissing everything you own (which I'm not) you did'nt design or build your equipment, you simply bought it like me so why get your nickers in a knot? They are not your creations, they are your expenses.

You keep going on I have not heard this and that and you are right I havn't. But does a rocket scientist need to know how to pilot a shuttle to build one? Does a formula 1 car designer ever get to sit in a cockpit? Don't even begin to imagine that building HIFI products come close to pushing the limits of physics.

Tell me where I have bashed anything on SNA? Tell me now or stop this ridiculous, over the top, over protective...fanboy shite!

Dr X,

It takes two to tango.

This post again reads of a poorly veiled attempt to stir the pot further. Are you implying that you have the experiene to bash gear that you haven't heard? Gear that you don't know the capabilities of?

There are reasons why SGR has a rampant fan base. Firstly these products are pushing the limits of physics and material sciences in attempting to do the most possible with the contsraints of the raw materials we have today. But most importantly, their products are pushing the limits of value. It delivers all of the audiophile treats in one package where previous experience have led many to believe it's not possible. There are testaments on SNA that these speakers offer pinpoint imaging on par with the best point source full range drivers, midrange that is as engaging as tubes, and the famed tight and deep bass of solid state. They are accurate and engaging. Very rarely do you see all of these features in a single system because many designers choose to make thier life easier by focusing on only a few of the many desirable traits. Most hifi manufactuers are also more cost driven than SGR who are more passion driven. The large manufacturers don't see it worthwhile to have SGR's attention to small details. It's just not cost effective for mass production and by the time you factor in all of the margins down the chain, it's no longer good value either.

Anyone I know who has been to SGR has developed an outstanding relationship with Stuart and Harry. You also get exposure into the many many hours of hard work that go into the construction and design of these systems. It's insulting to the hardwork and the knowledge of the people behind SGR and those who have made purchases based on this information to continue to insist that you can take off the shelf products and stretch them beyond their initial design and achieve a similar or better result. Much less when you don't know what the target is having never listened to a pair. Furthermore, you'll struggle to do it in the same footprint as SGR has. Two 802D + two 18" subs is a lot of real estate.

For the Eric the Red models I mentioned earlier, Stuart developed a Mighty Mouse amplifier that contains 3 channels of amplification and an active crossover in an extremely small chassis to fit withing the speaker cabinet. I believe Stuart was sent a congratulatory message from a major manufacturer (B&W even?) who said they had been trying to achieve the same goal and had given up. So they are doing some things no other manufacturers are at this stage. Not to mention some of the "Secret Men's Business" that goes into the cabinet and baffle damping / resonance control which is not available in any other products.

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Its been pointed out to the same people many many times.

1). The RRP are known. Not sure what the continued badgering for prise is about?

2). The SGR website is not up yet (as I understand it, it is built ready to go) as they simply can not meet demand now. If they can not meet demand without any advertising, how would they cope with it? Things are bubbling along very very well at SGR. When they know they can cope with added damand they will release the website.

3). SGR can make to a budget (when they have the time). So if your in the market, contact them and see what they can do for you at YOUR budget.

Pretty simple really. Wish this could be an automated response to the same questions that keep coming (and from the same people :rolleyes: )

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As for the line about "go and visit them", well I'm not in the market for speakers so if I did visit them I would be wasting their time, something I feel is unfair and won't do.

Oh, and asking for price is not a criticism, it's just asking for essential information.

DS

Perhaps so clarification is in order as there seems to be a lot of confusion around this point. SGR can build a system for any budget. Their price range is unlimited. At no point are you wasting their time. Prices have further been posted for their more common items numerous times.

Furthermore, their contact details are published on the web. Give them a call before you visit (they audition from their home at an unpublished address so this is a pre-requisite step anyway). At this stage budget, expectations, and options can be discussed.

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Dr X

If you want to know the SGRs price, you can phone them up and ask them. They are apparently a "bespoke" speaker maker so they do not make standardised models. As such, the price would be a factor of a number of things which would change with the requirements of the potential purchaser.

If you personally think that you can do better for less money, more power to you. If you are driven for whatever reason to trumpet this estimation here without having ANY experience of the product you are oh so "subtly" rubbishing (not to mention those who have chosen to purchase the product), don't expect to be taken seriously.

You, sir, are a tiresome individual.

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Right, that's it. I've seen enough. Thread closed until tomorrow morning. In the meantime, why not

? :rolleyes:

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has the dust settled?

SGR build speakers at all price points. Sure, there are always other competitive options around.

I'm happy with my purchase, and have gone back for more. The approach I've taken with my setup, has allowed me to get to a full range solution in stages.

I do continue to listen to other gear. And I dont claim that any other solutions are better or worse. I'll just re-iterate that I feel my solution, has been very good value for money.

[edit] Oh, 1 other thing. I do relate to all SNA'ers who are curious about the price of SGR equipment, and cant easily browse a catalog with prices. It's fair feedback to be making. Not everyone is comfortable to pickup the phone and ask about pricing. I have to admit, my first phone call was a little uncomfortable. But I'm glad I took that inital step.

Edited by ozmillsy

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I think Terry makes a valid point. I heard SGRs ages ago and they are great, but if I was looking for speakers I would want to know what price range they are in. In fact, I felt similarly about Osborn until I found out the price, now I own Osborns. I can understand that made for order stuff involves haggling and the like but, given the very wide range of speaker prices, from a few thousand to 6 figures, it is very useful to know what range different speakers fit into. Personally I have always avoided sellers of anything who don't mention price, after all what is the point of going somewhere to find you can't afford anything, not worth the risk really. We can easily find the price of most speakers and it really is essential information.

As for the line about "go and visit them", well I'm not in the market for speakers so if I did visit them I would be wasting their time, something I feel is unfair and won't do.

Oh, and asking for price is not a criticism, it's just asking for essential information.

DS

Hi Davidsss,

I love the smell of Napalm in the morning!

Being a pacifist I steered clear of this one once the conflicting personalities took over from rationality, but hey, what's a few right hooks between friends.

In many ways I'm with you on this in that it is hard to determine if you can allow yourself to be interested in a product that ultimately you will not be able to afford. When I did my 'grand tour of Melbourne' at the beginning of last year, SGR were not even on the initial audition list. John A's Octagons at a rumoured $35-40K were simply not an option and I hadn't heard enough about SGR to know that they had many other alleys and freeways to lead the budding upgrader or seasoned audiophile along. (No garden paths though)

Luckily I got the invite from Harry to come over and try a few options which he promised would be within cooee of my declared budget, and the rest, because I took him up on his offer, is history.

My thoughts are that, without wishing to read the minds of the SGR crew, they simply cannot be too definite in their costings due to the diversity and options offered within any model type, their constant evolution of new models, (plenty more of those to be ...... oooops) and because of the lead time between first perusal, order, manufacture and delivery the price can change considerably, for obvious reasons, mostly because being such a small opration it does tend to be a long wait at the moment. The next pair or system, may have to be more - or less, costly and previous rrp's or whatever quotations be redundant.

I would imagine that when the machinery gets more oiled and production gets more focus than R & D all will change and the web site will be more informative, the prices stabilised and lead times reduced.

Hopefully some peace may again reign in our SNA time,

Though I doubt it.

Grimmie

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My thoughts are that, without wishing to read the minds of the SGR crew, they simply cannot be too definite in their costings due to the diversity and options offered within any model type, their constant evolution of new models, (plenty more of those to be ...... oooops) and because of the lead time between first perusal, order, manufacture and delivery the price can change considerably, for obvious reasons, mostly because being such a small operation it does tend to be a long wait at the moment. The next pair or system, may have to be more - or less, costly and previous rrp's or whatever quotations be redundant.

Grimmie

If this is true, then it wouldn't go down to well for someone who spends big to suddenly find their pride and joy was just another product in the SGR R&D chain...

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If this is true, then it wouldn't go down to well for someone who spends big to suddenly find their pride and joy was just another product in the SGR R&D chain...

This is the reason why many have advised to call them and discuss your options.

SGR have made known to me the status of their products

as they have done with others who have contacted them :P

Yes, I can understand it is daunting at first to make the first call

and then talk price.

I was too.

And no, I do not own any SGR products.

But then again this is just my opinion chatting with SGR.

kevin_

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Guest JohnA

i think people are forgetting a few things here

SGR was never originally going to be a speaker manufacturer. It was more electronics, amplifiers and crossovers.

However, speakers had to be built to test these electronics.

Now here we are today...the first SGR speaker that was offered to the general public were the octagons at a price of $40k

then came the MT3' s at the same price point.

There is nothing else in the SGR product line CURRENTLY that is a consumer product. Everything else they do is custom work.

This wil of course change and there are some very exciting things happening which will no doubt all be revealed when the time is right i would suppose, along with all the rrp.

MT3's as i am aware will be a made on order product with a long wait time due to the amount of work required to build them.

Now i suppose i can reveal as to what is included in this price

well its a fairly nice box count

there are the speakers

there are the cables made up to any length you require

then there are the electronics

the new case goods which will be revealed in due time.

you get 1 big dual mono amp to drive the bottom sections

then you get 2 smaller 2 channel amps one for each top section

you also get the adjustable crossover equalizer and pre amp

SO

just add your source

If anyone wants custom work, of course this too can be catered for to all budgets

The MT3's were not available when i ordered my octagons, and as with every other product out there, advances are made and new models are created.

But i have been given the option to try the new mt3 head, and worked out a deal to swap over my top sections if i so desire.

This again is what i call great service from SGR.

If they come up with a better crossover of eq module/s, again there is the option to just have your product upgraded instead of purchasing a new product

Now of course once SGR are ahead of the 8 ball so to speak (currently so many orders to fill, they don't have much time for anything else) i'm sure there website will be finalised, and once all the official products are announced, all rrp will also be announced.

There will still be custom work and then price will be on individual requirements

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If this is true, then it wouldn't go down to well for someone who spends big to suddenly find their pride and joy was just another product in the SGR R&D chain...

Nice twist M75,

I kinda like it, though the words 'just another product' and the acronym SGR don't belong in the same sentence. Also being one of those (not exactly) big spenders, i actually hope my pride and joy gets to be cloned a thousand times, thereby bringing peace love and 'appeeness to the masses and mega bucks to the deserving three musicateers. Quantity of scale may just then see the price come down a little and I will own the rapidly appreciating in value Serial No.004, - a veritable heirloom.

Grimmie

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If this is true, then it wouldn't go down to well for someone who spends big to suddenly find their pride and joy was just another product in the SGR R&D chain...

Hi Mika

It doesn't matter if its SGR or any other manufacturer whether its Audio or not .If your willing to buy a product thats going through its R&D stage you know there could be further developments down the track whether there better or just different but you know this from the start and as far as price go's it could work out cheaper for you and if you like the final product and you want to upgrade it wouldn't be that expensive .

Cheers

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Grimmie viewpost.gif

My thoughts are that, without wishing to read the minds of the SGR crew, they simply cannot be too definite in their costings due to the diversity and options offered within any model type, their constant evolution of new models, (plenty more of those to be ...... oooops) and because of the lead time between first perusal, order, manufacture and delivery the price can change considerably, for obvious reasons, mostly because being such a small operation it does tend to be a long wait at the moment. The next pair or system, may have to be more - or less, costly and previous rrp's or whatever quotations be redundant.

Grimmie

If this is true, then it wouldn't go down to well for someone who spends big to suddenly find their pride and joy was just another product in the SGR R&D chain...

Hello Mika75,

You seem very new here and I apologise for not welcoming you within one of the other threads to which you have already contributed.

As a very happy owner of MT3A Serial No. 006 please allow me to address your genuine concern for those who commit to what is a serious financial investment in their future musical enjoyment before willingly waiting the requisite period for construction.

It is true that to date there have been many ongoing projects at SGR. Not all of this R&D is allocated to Octagons and MT3As but more about that when the appropriate time comes.

Thus far, every happy owner of an Octagon or MT3A speaker system has received temporary, albeit sonically excellent, electronics consisting of six channels of solid state amplification and a custom active line level crossover. What is nearing completion as we speak are the case good electronics which will comprise three stereo amplifiers (one larger for each of the bass sections and two smaller ones for each of the midrange and tweeters) and a separate active line level crossover (otherwise identical to what we all have currently but with added "smarts" and a built in active linestage which can be defeated for those who are attached to their current preamp). The chassis are quite unlike anything else currently on the market and the internal construction similarly sets a new benchmark for consumer electronics. Those fortunate few who have heard what this new amplifier design is sonically capable of are full of praise and astonishment. Quite an achievement when some of those people are devoted followers of the very finest valve electronics.

The whole point of the above is to illustrate that obtaining a consistent baseline reference point for the SGR Octagons and MT3As has always been the ultimate goal. Case in point is the fact that a tweaked version of an off-the-shelf Eton midrange is used in the latest MT3As. From an objective standpoint they are almost identical but there is a subjective sonic improvement and so rather than have a ragged line of one-off speakers, SGR have a strict policy of upgrading every customer's Octagon or MT3As to the current best spec (if desired) for a modest fee that would barely cover the parts involved not to mention the labour. If you own a Wilson Watt/Puppy you have to buy a new model at significant loss on resale, with an SGR Octagon or MT3A your investment is protected thanks to clever design (the decoupled sub-baffle for the midrange and tweeter in the case of MT3A). Add to this the fact that I could swap in a pair of Octagon heads and the appropriate crossover module and in an instant convert my MT3As to Octagons and what is there to complain about?

At the end of the day the only real world differences between any two pairs of Octagons or MT3As is the paint colour and choice of binding posts (or Speakon connectors), internal wire, etc. All trivial things from a sonic standpoint, I am sure you would agree, but important to the pride of ownership for the fortunate few who have the requisite funds and patience.

I could point to a number of speaker manufacturers both here and around the world who DO leave their customers with an orphaned product on a regular basis either as a result of building one-offs or models that cannot be easily upgraded.

What I have not addressed is the existence of a new design, affectionately dubbed the MT3SL (SL = slim line), which was comissioned by Drizt to suit his budget and desire for as much of the full blown MT3A magic as possible. The reality is this design will be more affordable because the bass section is MUCH easier to build. Keeping the top MT heads the same creates consistency. Having the amplification and crossover internal keeps the costs down as well since there is no need for four fancy chassis to consider. The MT3L is not intended to be a one-off and I am sure more people will gravitate towards this if their budget does not extend to an Octagon or MT3A. In essence this model is also future proofed in as much as one can swap in a different bass section and the external case good electronics and turn it into an MT3A that is identical to what everyone else has (save for paint colour and connectors as mentioned above).

Thus we have a model lineup which consists of Octagons or MT3As (take your pick depending on whether you prefer MTM or MT heads) and MT3SL for those who want a slimmer, more affordable version of the above. If a smaller speaker becomes available at retail and without the long lead time then that would surely round out a nice range of state of the art locally designed and built speakers hitting various price points and providing a consistent level of performance within each model designation. Add in ready availability of the very same sexy world-class solid state amplifiers supplied with each pair of Octagon or MT3A and the range looks even more comprehensive and complete for those who are attached to their current passive loudspeakers. When all of these pieces of the puzzle are in place then it would be appropriate to spend time and money on promotion with a website and a price list on every street corner.

So I hope that I have laid your fears to rest Mika. If you are in the market for a pair of new reference level loudspeakers then I would urge you to contact SGR through the appropriate channels. If you have a desire to modify your existing loudspeakers then you might also wish to discuss this R&D project with SGR, I know many other happy people who have done just that.

If you have any other questions then do not hesitate to ask. If you have any criticism then I suggest you save it until after you have heard the products in question or better still visited the birthplace of these products. Of late a few very knowledgable people have walked into SGR to pick them to pieces and walked away very humbled by what they have heard and seen.

There is no accounting for personal taste since the appreciation of music, both live and reproduced, is extremely subjective in nature. I defy anyone, however, to find fault with the execution of SGR's goals to create a meticulous, eye-catching, bullet-proof, thoroughly engineered product that facilitates accurate, neutral reproduction of what is on the recording using the best tools available, both now and in the future. This is something which is more ear opening and illuminating than most could imagine.

Regards,

Aaron

Edited by Young Skywalker

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I will own the rapidly appreciating in value Serial No.004, - a veritable heirloom.

Grimmie

And I have 005 :P Sweet :D

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What I have not addressed is the existence of a new design, affectionately dubbed the MT3L (L = lite), which was comissioned by Drizt to suit his budget and desire for as much of the full blown MT3A magic as possible.

Just a correction, its SL for Slim Line :P

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you also get the adjustable crossover equalizer and pre amp

Hey John, you sure about that?

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Guest JohnA
Hey John, you sure about that?

i believe there will be a small amount of adjustability for personal taste.

i can double check that though next time i speak to them

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Guest JohnA

lucky dog

i can confirm there will be adjustability

including EQ options on the bass frequencies to tame room nodes. All the adjustment options/features can be turned off and bypassed if desired

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Originally Posted by JohnA viewpost.gif

you also get the adjustable crossover equalizer and pre amp

Hey John, you sure about that?

LD, I can confirm that my speakers (and my upcoming subs) contain an EQ module, over and above (or built into) the cross over network.

This module allows SGR to ensure the speakers perform truly flat.

I'm pretty sure that when SGR performs an in-home(room) installation(calibration), Stuart is measuring room response, and adjusting the speaker response via this EQ module that he has designed.

This is not something that is user adjustable. But for the top end purchasers, they have the assurance that the product can be tailored to suit their room, to ensure the optimal performance is achieved.

When I say "pretty sure", I say so because my purchase didnt include this service (I'm not at the top end, and I'm not local to SGR).

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Guest JohnA

oz, i can confirm on the case goods its all user adjustable :P

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oz, i can confirm on the case goods its all user adjustable :P

Dude, that IS awesome !!!!

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      If you have a question let me know I may be able to come up with an answer.
      Rooms are in no particular order.
       
      First up is this huge room with huge JBL and huge Melody electronics. This was a large scale sound. Big bass but just because you can have big bass doesn't mean you should. I felt it smeared into the rest of the sound. I perhaps can see why some like it but for me it was underwhelming. They seem to be making things bigger these days and then charger more.







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