WhakPak Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 It applies to home cameras because the NAS is sold cheap. If you want to leverage the capability of the NAS, which not all NAS owners require, you need to pay to unlock that capability via a licence fee. Otherwise everybody will be paying a higher purchase price for the NAS, even those who don't need it to record from a network camera. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhakPak Posted August 2, 2017 Share Posted August 2, 2017 6 minutes ago, Mat-with-one-t said: ...I see synology use their own software ("Surveillance Station"). Are you suggesting it's expensive/problematic? What I'm suggesting is what I've written above. If you want to buy a NAS to do everything, it will do what you want it to do. You don't need a NAS to record an Axis camera. Use on-board SD storage at $80 for a 64GB SD. Do the math, if you have 8 cameras is it cheaper to record to SD or to an Axis Companion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rmpfyf Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 1 hour ago, WhakPak said: It is different. As the only person in this discussion who is familiar with both the NAS option (particularly QNAP) A large and incorrect assumption. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhakPak Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 Just now, rmpfyf said: A large and incorrect assumption. So you're familiar with Axis Companion? That's a surprise as Axis told me I have the only unit in Australia... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rmpfyf Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 1 hour ago, Mat-with-one-t said: Where are you based? Is this your job? Melbourne Eastern. Used to be part of my job, these days just happy to help out on some more curious installations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rmpfyf Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 (edited) 7 minutes ago, WhakPak said: That's a surprise as Axis told me I have the only unit in Australia... That much I doubt. And you'd not need to have it in Australia to have had familiarity with it (think about it). Not suggesting it's a bad or inferior product. The OP's requirements include a NAS at decent power, a switch and a few cameras. Doesn't justify a separate box. There are situations that would, and the Companion is very, very cheap for what it is. And it's good - if it were between a QNAP NVR and the Companion, I'd take the latter no question. Synology though, different. Edited August 3, 2017 by rmpfyf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhakPak Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 Just now, rmpfyf said: And you'd not need to have it in Australia to have had familiarity with it (think about it). The fact that I actually own one, having previously used NAS to record my cameras, leads me to the conclusions I have stated previously. If the OP only wants 3 cameras, record to SD. Use the NAS for his music streaming, photos, and those other things... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rmpfyf Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 (edited) 20 minutes ago, WhakPak said: The fact that I actually own one, having previously used NAS to record my cameras, leads me to the conclusions I have stated previously. That's terrific, and you're putting a lot of effort into finding adversity in something that's not intended as such. Which is derailing a thread unnecessarily. I don't own an Axis Companion NVR. I've evaluated it in a professional capacity. I don't find a need to own one personally, because I have a NAS that fulfills my needs. I have means to acquire one fairly rapidly if I wanted to, and I don't want to. I have a few clients looking at one on my recommendation to replace some older Swann rigs that are, frankly, s**t. They don't have a modern NAS to act as an NVR, and they don't want one. For them it's a good fit. I am not slagging off your chosen product. It is cheap and effective for what it is. 20 minutes ago, WhakPak said: If the OP only wants 3 cameras, record to SD. Use the NAS for his music streaming, photos, and those other things... If the OP needs a solid NAS and 3 cameras, then the OP is better off with a NAS and one additional camera license, which at $50-80 or so is considerably less than the $500 landed a 4-camera Companion NVR would cost. Or some good SD cards. If the OP wants to downgrade the NAS to a consumer-level device to save a bit of money, there's certainly merit in what you're suggesting. Edited August 3, 2017 by rmpfyf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhakPak Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 11 minutes ago, rmpfyf said: ..If the OP needs a solid NAS and 3 cameras, then the OP is better off with a NAS and one additional camera license, which at $50-80 or so is considerably less than the $500 landed a 4-camera Companion NVR would cost. Or some good SD cards. He still needs to buy a POE switch to power his cameras. He only needs to buy a camera licence if he intends to use the software embedded in the NAS. He can connect as many cameras to the NAS as he likes if he doesn't use the embedded software. He can use other freeware which doesn't require a licence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rmpfyf Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 14 minutes ago, WhakPak said: He still needs to buy a POE switch to power his cameras. He only needs to buy a camera licence if he intends to use the software embedded in the NAS. He can connect as many cameras to the NAS as he likes if he doesn't use the embedded software. He can use other freeware which doesn't require a licence. He's going to need a good switch anyway; I'd run the PoE injector separately. Agree on the freeware though if new to the whole deal, the packaged stuff (Synology) is quite good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhakPak Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 2 minutes ago, rmpfyf said: ..I'd run the PoE injector separately. He might as well buy a good POE switch than spending $50 each on POE injector. The equation is still looking exceptional for the Axis Companion solution, all things considered. Put the Companion on a UPS and the whole camera system will keep running for the duration of UPS battery power during mains power outage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rmpfyf Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 (edited) 4 minutes ago, WhakPak said: He might as well buy a good POE switch than spending $50 each on POE injector. The equation is still looking exceptional for the Axis Companion solution, all things considered. Put the Companion on a UPS and the whole camera system will keep running for the duration of UPS battery power during mains power outage. Get a multi-port injector and be done with it - considerably less costly than $50/channel, price drops to around $10-15/channel. And there are other things I'd put on a PoE injector (e.g. WAPs etc). The last few homes done have had customers requesting the whole system (NAS, switch, modem, injector) on a UPS, with cellular failover on the modem. Not that expensive to do. Most good switches with PoE need active cooling... (not all)... and that has noise/life implications most people won't put up with. Edited August 3, 2017 by rmpfyf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhakPak Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 His minimum cost option for a 3 camera installation will be the cameras + SD + 10/100 POE switch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rmpfyf Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 13 minutes ago, WhakPak said: His minimum cost option for a 3 camera installation will be the cameras + SD + 10/100 POE switch. Sure... but will need a fast gigabit switch anyway. Will have data storage anyway. Would not skimp on a PoE switch unless built for purpose (as per the Axis box) or otherwise passively cooled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhakPak Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 You don't need a gigabit switch for the camera part of the installation, 10/100 fast ethernet is all you need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat-with-one-t Posted August 3, 2017 Author Share Posted August 3, 2017 some lively discussions! Sounds like each option hold merit! How oukd one go for service/backup using the Axis system given it doesn't really have a presence here? on another note, I saw the above ad - these sorts of units look highly convenient for ripping a cd collection, however do they interface with other things in the network or are you tied to their operating system? Can they interface with the likes of Roon or Jriver? I assume the "end point" is any dac, but does this mean you can't send music to more than one location? For example, I have 2 main stereo systems - each with its own dac and Ethernet connectivity. I also may stream to a laptop for headphones (via a dragonfly USB dac) or portable speaker in the garden. Do these servers deal with all this? I fear they may be a bit limited compared to, say, a "core" (eg. Roon) on a mini computer (with an ssd and generous ram) and music files stored on a NAS..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhakPak Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 (edited) Who said Axis doesn't have a presence here? Axis is the best supported product I have come across. About your other questions, you need to be clear about what you're trying to achieve before people can make comment or otherwise make suggestions. An "end point" is a music renderer. A "control point" is something that controls the "end point". So what specifically are your other questions? Break it down into point form... Edited August 3, 2017 by WhakPak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rmpfyf Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 3 hours ago, WhakPak said: Who said Axis doesn't have a presence here? Axis is the best supported product I have come across. This is true. Solid product. 3 hours ago, WhakPak said: About your other questions, you need to be clear about what you're trying to achieve before people can make comment or otherwise make suggestions. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat-with-one-t Posted August 3, 2017 Author Share Posted August 3, 2017 "So you're familiar with Axis Companion? That's a surprise as Axis told me I have the only unit in Australia" This gives the impression that this company doesn't sell here. anyway, it's all getting a bit much, so I'll politely step back and consider some of the suggestions and discussions here, and will then hopefully be in a better position to be clearer about my needs and general budget. many thanks. Mat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rmpfyf Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Mat-with-one-t said: anyway, it's all getting a bit much, so I'll politely step back and consider some of the suggestions and discussions here, and will then hopefully be in a better position to be clearer about my needs and general budget. many thanks. Mat Mat, a good place to start might be budget - can sound a little harsh or draconian but it helps. I can tell you what I'd spend... but if you're constrained, or you want to do it in stages, it's not so bad - can go a fair ways towards shaping next steps. As tech-y nerd-y as these things can sound... you should want to have some fun building it too You seem to be a good way towards that, no reason the next bits shouldn't be any different. A mate just did his complete network cabinet under a grand complete with NAS - did all of it except the hard disks with second hand bits to prove a point (I'll begrudgingly admit it all works fine). There's something for everyone for sure. PM if you want an offline chat/phone call. Happy to listen. Edited August 3, 2017 by rmpfyf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhakPak Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 Axis does sell here. They just haven't released Axis Companion to the Australian market yet. They can only build so many new pieces at a time and not all markets get an immediate allocation of new products. After production has been up and running for a while eventually there will be stock to allocate to the Australian market. Regarding your installation, that looks like UTP cable to me. Many of the newer camera models are specifying STP Cat 5. And the cabinet you need to put heat producing routers and switches and power supplies and other such things isn't ideal for the purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhakPak Posted August 3, 2017 Share Posted August 3, 2017 (edited) 7 minutes ago, rmpfyf said: ...I can tell you what I'd spend... but if you're constrained, or you want to do it in stages, it's not so bad - can go a fair ways towards shaping next steps. Budget on about $1k per camera (eg Axis P-series) , or if you wanted something better (eg Axis Q-series) then $2k per camera. The software is all free if you choose Axis. Technopolis on-line store is a good source for Axis hardware (that is where I buy mine from). This is a good choice P-series: http://www.technopolis.com.au/products/5672-p3364-v-network-camera.aspx This is a good choice Q-series: http://www.technopolis.com.au/products/32100-q3505-v-mk-ii-9-mm-network-camera.aspx Or if you don't want the dome type camera, this is a good choice P-series: http://www.technopolis.com.au/products/32017-p1365-mk-ii-network-camera.aspx I use all of these cameras at home. Edited August 3, 2017 by WhakPak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckinhere Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 @Whakpak & @rmpfyf I think you might have scared off the OP from his own thread... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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