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Wow now even Audio GD doing discrete R2R Multibit.

He goes on about the R2R  resistor tolerance, but never actually says what he uses, but uses a correction network of some sort, a bit like feedback? I think may Halo or some other discrete R2R manufacturer does the same

 

Cheers George  

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I'd like to see the measurement that the guys at Super Best Audio friend  compared this to the Schitt Modi or one of the Holo dacs..

it be an interesting comparison.

 

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Here's a pick (bottom) of the R2R resistor board of one channel.

Note the twin TCXO (temperature controlled) clocks. 

 

Cheers George

 

R2R711.jpg

Edited by georgehifi
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Give me a break, I am looking for a DAC that won't send me broke and is bettter than a PCM1794 in my beautiful HALCRO EC800 CD player.

 

 

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41 minutes ago, georgehifi said:

 

Love it well explained, now I understand how they get the R2R resistor accuracy.

 

Cheers George 

 

Now explain to me that how doubling up in pairs actually increases accuracy.

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3 minutes ago, georgehifi said:

Because he said so!

 

Cheers George

 

Thats not good enough as an answer.  Just because he saids so without the  maths or any proof I find that extremely misleading,, or it's just me not understanding it.   To me there is not enough info to make that claim.

 

Put any 2 resistors together with the same tolerance is still going to be that tolerance.  To say that increases the tolerance from say 0.1 to o.001 doesn't jell with me.  The tolerance is still going to be same because you have trimmed those resistors to that tolerance and if you're using the same materials coming of the same production line,  it's not going to change.

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Look at a bigger picture, that they may not wish to tell you all of it, so other may copy, as I said before I think Halo did something similar. There's no doubt other factors that you don't know that are messing with you.

 

Cheers George

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If I'm a business owner that lives in a country which minimum wage is $2 per hour and need to have an exact value resistor in a large number of just buy a large amount of 1% tolerance resistor and hire someone to hand match it to get the exact value I want. Problem solved 

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14 minutes ago, mloutfie said:

If I'm a business owner that lives in a country which minimum wage is $2 per hour and need to have an exact value resistor in a large number of just buy a large amount of 1% tolerance resistor and hire someone to hand match it to get the exact value I want. Problem solved 

 

36 minutes ago, georgehifi said:

Look at a bigger picture, that they may not wish to tell you all of it, so other may copy, as I said before I think Halo did something similar. There's no doubt other factors that you don't know that are messing with you.

 

Cheers George

 

With the processing he has on that pcb he wouldn't need the accuracy or tolerances that's required.  All he has to do is go through an initial process that scans each resistor at 2 voltage points, usually at zero potential and X volts.  thats all that's required.  Those. Values are then stored and is used to compensate when it's called for.  It's. Bit like scanning the black and white levels of a CCD.

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30 minutes ago, mloutfie said:

If I'm a business owner that lives in a country which minimum wage is $2 per hour and need to have an exact value resistor in a large number of just buy a large amount of 1% tolerance resistor and hire someone to hand match it to get the exact value I want. Problem solved 

I can't remember which DAC R2R manufacturer it was.. but the resistors come ready for surface mount automation. So they can be 'fed' thru a measuring device and their values recorded and matched - no need for hands on.

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6 hours ago, jof062 said:

Interesting...

 

6 hours ago, georgehifi said:

Love it well explained, now I understand how they get the R2R resistor accuracy.

Cheers George 


The creator of that preview/youtube channel is a member here @Currawong

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On 27/07/2017 at 7:52 PM, Addicted to music said:

 

Thats not good enough as an answer.  Just because he saids so without the  maths or any proof I find that extremely misleading,, or it's just me not understanding it.   To me there is not enough info to make that claim.

 

Put any 2 resistors together with the same tolerance is still going to be that tolerance.  To say that increases the tolerance from say 0.1 to o.001 doesn't jell with me.  The tolerance is still going to be same because you have trimmed those resistors to that tolerance and if you're using the same materials coming of the same production line,  it's not going to change.

 

Just parallel the resistors to decrease the SD and distortions, assuming independent variation based on a normal distribution. But the real benefit is in using Dan Lavry's brilliant digital compensation strategy.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I was at a mates place this evening and i heard the Denafrips Ares for the first time.  Count me very impressed!   These R2R ladder dacs are something special indeed.  Very different sounding to an OS D/S dac. 

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On 11/08/2017 at 8:55 PM, katattack74 said:

I was at a mates place this evening and i heard the Denafrips Ares for the first time.  Count me very impressed!   These R2R ladder dacs are something special indeed.  Very different sounding to an OS D/S dac. 

att katattack74

 

What was it that impressed so much compared to the Delta Sigma dac?

 

Cheers George

Edited by georgehifi
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  • 2 weeks later...
On 8/11/2017 at 6:55 PM, katattack74 said:

I was at a mates place this evening and i heard the Denafrips Ares for the first time.  Count me very impressed!   These R2R ladder dacs are something special indeed.  Very different sounding to an OS D/S dac. 

 

I'm curious to find out too :D

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On 8/12/2017 at 0:24 PM, georgehifi said:

att katattack74

 

What was it that impressed so much compared to the Delta Sigma dac?

 

Cheers George

It was at my place.  Kat's had more dac experience that I have.  He said it was very palpable and the noise floor was very low.  Reminded him of his vinyl rig and he does have a pretty decent turntable and phono stage setup.  As for me, i thought it as good as my Schitt Gumby.   Price wize to get comparable performance similar to the Gumby was a bargain.

Edited by Porkbuns69
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Yup, that video was mine. I'm working on a review (there are some things I'm discussing with Kingwa first) but initial impressions are typical of good R2R DACs -- extreme listenability, but plenty of detail and space. Unlike some of the other recent R2R DACs, it isn't NOS, and doesn't sound so great to me in NOS mode. It's close to, but not as "dry" as my Yggdrasil. 

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