Jump to content

Sign in to follow this  

Recommended Posts

Just got a delivery of the new Denon X4300 that was reviewed very favorably here on Stereonet and 2 SVS PB1000 subs.

For movies and a very short demo of Rango, T2 and The Avengers I have not heard anything better, just superb and that is just 5.2 I can't wait till I move into our new home and set up either 5.2.4 or 7.2.4. I would honestly regard this for movies a big improvement over a Integra DHC 80.3 pre that I previously  had. The canal chase scene in T2 where Arnie busts through the gates on the Harley, I have never heard so precise and clearly the gates slamming open in the surround channels.

BUT as was the case with the 80.3 Pre/pro 5.1 music concerts did not impress me as much as a lowly Intgra 30.7. It goes back to the Audeyssey thing again where you have to muck around and adjust different things or just turn off to get it to sound decent. On the plus side with 2 channel music in Pure Direct mode in compares very favorably with my Creek Evo 2 amp so much in fact I am now considering just a poweramp for front 2 channels to simplify things.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Agree with your observations in all respects. Just took delivery of one about a week ago and actually think it performs better in 2ch pure direct than my old Nad T757!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting. Sounds like Denon has finally lifted their game from an audio quality prospective.  Have you tried the Audessey APP that's available to tailor the curve from the app store? What about eq? Is it available with Audessey enabled?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@digitalhome from your perspective being an experience installer I have noticed you don't use Audyssey based AVRs in your home system, I can understand they are great when installing for customers, you can't go wrong but do you find in your own system that there is just too much fiddling with it. The Audyssey settings as well :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


Haven't tried the Audyssey app yet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes the messing around is time consuming, but on the bigger jobs I do run the software and tweak accordingly. But my focus is more on I.T. these days. I had a Deon AVR4520 for about 12 months but it didn't delight, I much preferred the impact from the Yamaha as well as the better controller app as well as being able to eq down to 15hz, even with yapo enabled. I don't believe that can be done (particularly that low) with the Denon / Marantz?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Glad to hear your enjoying the 4300! I've been tossing up between this and then Anthem 720. Both use the same DAC as far as I'm aware so I'm assuming they would sound similar with music. I've heard good things about anthems ARC. 

 

Curious to know if you can use your subs in pure direct mode ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No...can use in stereo mode only I believe. Pure direct sets speakers to Large.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


Watched About half an hour of Talking Heads Stop Making Sense last night with Audyssey completely off and WOW! That is the best thing I have ever heard.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 25/07/2017 at 9:56 PM, metalheadz said:

Glad to hear your enjoying the 4300! I've been tossing up between this and then Anthem 720. Both use the same DAC as far as I'm aware so I'm assuming they would sound similar with music. I've heard good things about anthems ARC. 

 

Curious to know if you can use your subs in pure direct mode ?

Have the Anthem 710 and ARC is superb, especially useful for a non dedicated room. Anthem is noted for its music performance and I love it for multi channel music. However, it cannot match (and was not expected to match) a dedicated stereo setup. Don't get me wrong, the 710 is very good for stereo, and I could easily live with it if that is all I had.  But my expectations for stereo go beyond what an AVR can deliver.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can directly compare my Creek Evo 2 integrated with the Denon X4300 and I can't hear any difference. I could with other AVR'a and an AV pre that I had. 

I'll do some testing over weekend. Would love to get my hands on a 7 series.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Am using powered fronts, so was comparing the DAC on the 710 with a stereo DAC which costs slightly less than the 710.  Not a surprise that the stereo DAC won in an unfair comparison.

 

Was reading your first post about Audyssey (no hands on with it) and music. ARC definitely improves music in a non dedicated room. However, it could not overcome the room limitations for bass. After adding a second sub and using Multi Sub Optimisation (MSO), ARC+MSO lifted movie and multichannel music. MSO also improved the stereo and kept it ahead of the 710 for stereo.

Edited by Snoopy8
Typos

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


I believe the Anthem 710 uses a Sirius logic dac does it not ?

 

I'm in the middle of going down the AVR route again with the Anthem  720 or Denon 4300.

Or

Getting an intergrated amp with HT bypass, using that with a BluSound node 2 for music, oppo analogue for blurays. And adding in the next generation AVR later down the track.

 

Ive never had a stereo amp or dedicated 2channel set up so I don't really know what the benefit of it would be. Can't say I've ever been able to hear a "sound stage" and pick out instrument placements.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, Snoopy8 said:

ARC definitely improves music in a non dedicated room

That is exactly my beliefs or understanding on ARC or Audyssey in that it is room correction, if your room don't need correcting then you don't need room correction. I like to keep things simple, in fact I usually get called simple from some members here :D I just use Audyssey to set the distances and levels inc subs.

The second sub has been a great addition as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, metalheadz said:

Ive never had a stereo amp or dedicated 2channel set up so I don't really know what the benefit of it would be.

Maybe get a power amp for front 2 channels first and see how that goes. The integrated with ht bypass is great but is it really worth the hassle of switching inputs all the time for that 2 or 3 percent improvement.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, powerav said:

Maybe get a power amp for front 2 channels first and see how that goes. The integrated with ht bypass is great but is it really worth the hassle of switching inputs all the time for that 2 or 3 percent improvement.

The issue is my current AVR (Yamaha Z7) is getting a bit dated, no audio return etc. but mainly the fact it doesn't fit in the new furniture. 140wpc biamped, there's definitely enough power there for movies, and music sounds best on pure direct,

but no sub. I found the YPAO sets the levels and distances pretty spot on too but I don't like the EQ. Music definitely sounds better with it off.

 

I was under the impression using an intergrated for music duties would be a huge improve as  opposed to adding a power amp. As the music is still being fed through the AVR.

 

?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


14 minutes ago, metalheadz said:

I was under the impression using an intergrated for music duties would be a huge improve as  opposed to adding a power amp. As the music is still being fed through t

No doubt it is an improvement but with some integrated amps the ht bypass feature is not well implemented and can be a hassle. For example on mine you have to set the amp for "av direct" for ht duties and back to cd for music sometimes I forget to change back to AV direct and wonder why front the channels aren't working :(. As I stated I don't feel I need the integrated with this Denon. 

I actually have my integrated amps  in the classfieds.;)

Edited by powerav

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
58 minutes ago, metalheadz said:

I believe the Anthem 710 uses a Sirius logic dac does it not ?

 

I'm in the middle of going down the AVR route again with the Anthem  720 or Denon 4300.

Or

Getting an intergrated amp with HT bypass, using that with a BluSound node 2 for music, oppo analogue for blurays. And adding in the next generation AVR later down the track.

 

Ive never had a stereo amp or dedicated 2channel set up so I don't really know what the benefit of it would be. Can't say I've ever been able to hear a "sound stage" and pick out instrument placements.

I think it uses a Sirius Logic DAC, but I did not look into this when I bought the 710.

 

I do like my stereo, currently in a phase where it far outstrips movies and multi channel music.  Given that you do not have the same focus on stereo, suggest AVR route.

 

37 minutes ago, powerav said:

That is exactly my beliefs or understanding on ARC or Audyssey in that it is room correction, if your room don't need correcting then you don't need room correction. I like to keep things simple, in fact I usually get called simple from some members here :D I just use Audyssey to set the distances and levels inc subs.

The second sub has been a great addition as well.

I read that Audyssey Pro is much better for movies, not sure if it applies to music ? 

 

I did investigate room correction for the stereo.  I  had good success with ARC for movies, where it improved the sound image, made channels including dialogue much clearer, and delivered superb multi channel music  However, most of the problems in the open plan family room were bass related, and once they were fixed, decided room correction above the bass was not necessary.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah right, I thought you had to select the "AV" input with all intergrated for bypass.. I can definitely see the misses getting confused or fed up with the hassle having to constantly switch inputs.

 

Having a one box solution is so handy. What speakers are you using PowerAv?

 

My focus was originally HT as I use to play games and watch a lot of movies/tv however I find myself playing music about 50% of the time now. I don't sit there and critique it, just have it on and unwind on the couch. Saying that I've always wanted it to sound better, so I'm intrigued to see what level intergrated id need to surpass a decent AVR. 

 

Do you have 2 seperate setups for hifi and ht snoopy? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, metalheadz said:

Do you have 2 seperate setups for hifi and ht snoopy? 

Stereo and HT share the mains (Sgr Cx- 3b) and subs (Svs Sb-13u, Sb-2000). 2 Dcx2496 DSPs do the bass EQ and switching.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
57 minutes ago, metalheadz said:

What speakers are you using PowerAv?

I have Richter Wizard Mk4's for frony L/R,  Richter Unicorn Centre, B&W DS6 surround and 2 SVS PB1000 subs.

Was fiddling around with AVR today and put Audyssey back to L/R Bypass and that is what I will leave it on, much better for music concerts, the bass in The Police - Certifiable was incredible.

1 hour ago, metalheadz said:

so I'm intrigued to see what level intergrated id need to surpass a decent AVR. 

Another option which I found to be OK was a decent DAC into the analog inputs of an AVR.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, metalheadz said:

 I find myself playing music about 50% of the time now. I don't sit there and critique it, just have it on and unwind on the couch. Saying that I've always wanted it to sound better, so I'm intrigued to see what level intergrated id need to surpass a decent AVR.

 

A pretty basic integrated will kick a good/flagship AVR to the curb if just using it for 2 channel playback. But the areas where it does this is in imaging/sounstage etc and room/speaker set up is critical to get the best results as you don't have the AVR's room correction technology as in the AVR. But you'll also need a DAC or just use analogue sources.

 

I went with 2 set ups more-so because I didn't like being in a closed off room just for music so put my 2ch in the family room and HT gear in dedicated room. Also lets me play around with speakers etc in the livingroom while having the HT just for movies/Netflix and occassional BD music concert. Where a good combined system creates issues I believe, is getting subs to work equally well for music and for the 2 channel part of the system.

 

Different amp & AVR brands also have different "house sound" as I found out going from the detailed Integra sound to the more lush/meatier sound of my current Marantz HT processor. The Audyssey pro calibration took it up another couple of steps, but never had that with the Integra so can't compare. Thinking back the Integra may have been more natural, detailed and realistic whereas the Marantz adds a bit of pizzazz or wow factor with weightier bass etc. 

 

"flavour to taste"... but tastes change...

Edited by blybo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, blybo said:

 Where a good combined system creates issues I believe, is getting subs to work equally well for music and for the 2 channel part of the system.

I have a set of DSP bass settings for HT which work together with ARC and a separate set for stereo.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah I've been told an intergrated will be equal to an AVR of double the value. So I'd be up for min 2k. Really I'd want to upgrade, not side step. 

 

Adding a dac to the AVR kind of defeats the purpose of a one box solution, especially if you're using the built in streamer. But I might look out for one in the classifieds.

 

Snoopy, fantastic system you have there. I was eye off the SGR bookshelves many years ago. I like the idea of active speakers and just upgrading to a mid tier AVR every few years.

Funnily enough I nearly went with an SVS sb13 and a seperate dsp for bass management too. I over indulged and got an 18" sub from Funk Audio with a pretty powerful built in DSP.

Very convenient having 2 dsp settings you can switch easily. Not so easy for me.

 

Curious to know what mic you used for EQ with MSO. I was about to going down the REW path but yeah got divorced haha everything has been in storage for 4 years .

 

Edited by metalheadz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, metalheadz said:

Adding a dac to the AVR kind of defeats the purpose of a one box solution

Not really, I was using a HTPC with Kodi and I would just select HDMI in Kodi settings for movies and surround stuff and then change to the DAC in Kodi settings for 2 channel, video will still be passed through to TV. I have been trying Roon for the last month but I have cancelled that and going back to Kodi.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...