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Looking for a used tube preamp and a solid state power amp


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Hi all. 

 

I am about to think of an upgrate of my system. Not the whole setup, but two main components, my preamp which is Marantz AV7701 and solid state Primare A32. I have recently changed turntable and phono stage, so now it is the right time for the rest half of my system to be changed. I have never had a tube preamp or power amp or anything, but I would like to start from a combo with a tube and solid state power amp and the tube preamp is considered to have XLR inputs. My speakers are Cremonas M and I listen to mostly vinyl records. 

I would be very appreciating to you if any of you could advise me what a possible combo might be worth replacing of what I have got. I was looking for McIntosh gears, but couldn't find anything here. 

 

Thanks

Edited by ArtCor
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I have a Bel Canto eVo2 i'm looking to sell which is a lovely smooth solid state power amp, but the only tube pre i've had good experience with is the Consonance Linear 1, these 2 together were glorious.

 

Not sure what your budget is but the eVo I'm asking $1500 + freight but the preamp i've mentioned is around $4300 new here.

 

Alternatively I'm currently using an Audile EL34 based amp on the Pre-out of my Marantz SR6005 and it is surprisingly good, so you could always look at a nice tube power amp to just plug into the AV7701. 

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What is your budget for this? Used or new gear?

 

The A32 is about a $4-5k rrp solid state power amp so is a good power amp to keep and find a matching tube preamp for. There is a large range of preamps to choose from say rrp from $2-6k, if that is what you may like to spend.

 

There are ocassionally very good $1-2k tube preamps in the SNA classifieds like Audio Research, Conrad Johnson, Musical Fidelity, Prima Luna, Suprateks etc. Even less well known  custom made or to order, DIY built or kit preamps from China (eg. Ming Da) and other places for around $500-1500 can sound very good. It's a matter of trying them out.

 

Here is a list of others to consider:

https://www.stereophile.com/category/tube-preamp-reviews

 

Hooking up any kind of AV amp or similar onto a tube power amp or quality SS amp may sound better than previous but it will seriously muddy up the sound when compared with a proper preamp combo.

Edited by Al.M
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59 minutes ago, gemini07 said:

I've never heard these, but many here have and speak very highly of both the brand and this model.

 

https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/hallett-cove/stereo-systems/weston-touchstone-valve-preamplifier-/1153894582

 

 

It could and probably is very good but you need to try it out. He seems to be a regular advertiser and some kind of used dealer on gumtree. Some tube preamps can look nice but when you match them up it can be merely Ok but not what you are eventually looking for. Other issues to consider are resale and the safer bets are those more popular common but well reviewed ones.

 

OP's issue is he may not have a point of reference or experience to compare what preamp A is better than B alternative, although when comparing A and B in his familiar stereo room it should be fairly obvious. Option A might be good and better than what he has heard in AV amps, but option B might be way better with unheard musicality, ultra refined treble, fantastic voices, great imaging etc.

Edited by Al.M
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11 hours ago, Al.M said:

What is your budget for this? Used or new gear?

 

The A32 is about a $4-5k rrp solid state power amp so is a good power amp to keep and find a matching tube preamp for. There is a large range of preamps to choose from say rrp from $2-6k, if that is what you may like to spend.

 

There are ocassionally very good $1-2k tube preamps in the SNA classifieds like Audio Research, Conrad Johnson, Musical Fidelity, Prima Luna, Suprateks etc. Even less well known  custom made or to order, DIY built or kit preamps from China (eg. Ming Da) and other places for around $500-1500 can sound very good. It's a matter of trying them out.

 

Here is a list of others to consider:

https://www.stereophile.com/category/tube-preamp-reviews

 

Hooking up any kind of AV amp or similar onto a tube power amp or quality SS amp may sound better than previous but it will seriously muddy up the sound when compared with a proper preamp combo.

My budget is around $8000 for both and looking for used gears. I also thought to give a try to keep the Primare and find the right tube preamp for it, but don't know actually what preamp will match. Would be excellent to find someone who could help by trying it in my setup. 

Edited by ArtCor
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Funnily enough, you rarely hear of any Mac gear for sale here, or even mentioned in discussions about recomended amps etc.

 

Perhaps Mac gear is end game for their owners and they no longer actively contribute to these communities???

 

I'll have a matching Elektra tube pre and Elektra Reference SS power amp for sale within the next couple of weeks. The power amp is 250wpc into 8ohm, doubles down to 4 ohm and goes close to doubling down to 2ohm, so can drive anything you throw at it. This would save you a bundle, but you could also possibly just sneak in to getting the latest Elektra gear for your budget.

Edited by blybo
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An Elektra Reference HD amp and PNYX Pre would fit your requirements . There is an amp for sale currently through Trevor Lees  on Ebay , can be picked up in Sydney if required. 

 

Cheers , paul

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Do you want the best sound for your money, or do you prefer to lock yourself into a potentially inappropriate choice? 

 

Don't forget, the following statements are incorrect:

 

Valves = good, SS = bad.

SS = good, valves = bad.

 

Nothing wrong with well designed, appropriately used valve equipment. Equally, there is nothing wrong with well designed, appropriately used SS equipment. However, there are plenty of bad examples of both technologies. 

 

Just choose the best sound and forget about how it is achieved. 

Edited by Zaphod Beeblebrox
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Tube matches with solid state and solid state mixes with tube in virtually any position. All you need to do is remember the 10X rule. The Input impedance of the amp should be roughly 10X higher than the output impedance of the preamp. If your valve preamp is 2500ohms it must be matched with a 25kohm amplifier.  You shouldn't worry, there will be roughly less than 1% case where you will run into where this is not the case these days.

 

I prefer solid state into valve, rather than valve into solid state, you get all the colour of the valve amplifier and the oomph when its connected that way round. If you connect it the other way around you risk making things a bit dull.

 

 

Edited by Roumelio.
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26 minutes ago, Roumelio. said:

Tube matches with solid state and solid state mixes with tube in virtually any position. All you need to do is remember the 10X rule. The Input impedance of the amp should be roughly 10X higher than the output impedance of the preamp. If your valve preamp is 2500ohms it must be matched with a 25kohm amplifier.  You shouldn't worry, there will be roughly less than 1% case where you will run into where this is not the case these days.

 

I prefer solid state into valve, rather than valve into solid state, you get all the colour of the valve amplifier and the oomph when its connected that way round. If you connect it the other way around you risk making things a bit dull.

 

 

What if the output impedance of the tube preamp less than the 10X equivalent. I mean if the output is 500 ohms, but the amp input is 15000. 

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If the impedance is less than 10x you end up running the risk of burning out the power supply from overloading it. But this is the less than 1% case scenario I was talking out above.

Edited by Roumelio.
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15 hours ago, ArtCor said:

My budget is around $8000 for both and looking for used gears. I also thought to give a try to keep the Primare and find the right tube preamp for it, but don't know actually what preamp will match. Would be excellent to find someone who could help by trying it in my setup. 

Your $8k budget will cover a large range of fantastic combos. You may strike it lucky first time, but more likely it will be a process of trial and error and incremental improvement to find the right match that you will feel longer term satisfaction so keep options open over a period of time to get to where you want.

 

In the several dozens of used up pre and power up to $2k each unit I have tried, which rrp for up to $10k as combos, in all cases the better result was a tube pre and tube power while a SS power was close second with right speaker. My current setup that I think is more or less final is a tube pre and SS power which is preferred on practical grounds as it meets my present need to suit greater range of speakers in the house I have which vary great in power demands. I have several types of power amps tube, SS and Class D chip which the tube pre suits all. But when I want to impress myself with the right speaker the all tube combo always wins the day, but it is not always practical so the tube pre and SS power runs for 80% the time.

 

 

The other way to allocate the budget is to have one fab tube preamp say at $2-3k, and then a $2-3k tube and SS power amp to cover both bases if space suits.

 

 

Edited by Al.M
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19 hours ago, ArtCor said:

What if the output impedance of the tube preamp less than the 10X equivalent. I mean if the output is 500 ohms, but the amp input is 15000. 

 

An input impedance to output impedance ratio of 10 times is an ABSOLUTE MINIMUM. I've measured serious problems with certain, high output impedance devices at levels greater than 10 times. For that reason, I prefer to keep the ratio at around 1:100. 

 

There is absolutely no reason why, in 2017, why any preamp (valve or SS) should not exhibit an output impedance of less than 10 Ohms. Such a figure will easily deal not only with a low impedance power amp, but, more importantly, allows the use of any practical length and type of interconnect cable. Just look for a preamp with a sub-10 Ohm output impedance and you will never have to worry about any impedance matching issues. As a bonus, noise pickup and thermal noise can be reduced to the lowest practical levels.

Edited by Zaphod Beeblebrox
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I remember with my Ayon CD5S, the designer claimed the lack of negative feedback in their design meant the output impedance was always going to be pretty high - in this case 300ohms. I had no end of noise trying to use it on a pair of studio monitors with 10kOhm input impedance (Focal Solo 6 Be). 

 

Audio Research Ref5SE/6/LS28s are about 300-600 ohms. Even the Conrad Johnson GAT and the BHK Signature preamps are 100ohms. 

 

 

 

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Ayre Acoustics are 55 ohm/phase....  the list goes on and on.  Earl's (Weston Acoustics) best pre-amplifier is 10 ohms, his other 80 ohms.   Dan Dagostino Momentum 10 ohms, Chord Electronics Reference 100 ohms, Esoteric 47/100 ohm (RCA/XLR).   Stereophile and other magazines regularly publish test results on pre-amplifiers with Zout of >100 - ~600 ohms.  They don't say that the units suffer / lack performance.  The best sounding ones in their tests are in this range.  Obviously a lot of world-renown circuit designers/engineers do not see the need for this lower than 10 ohms POV. The lowest I know of is surprisingly is ME pre-amplifiers at 2 ohm.  Sound familiar, sound good, yes.  Is it in my setup, not now (Late model, aluminium chassis, ME25 with MC - in stellar condition, completely rebuilt, large power supply recapped - unit has not been used for 12 months now).  Will I sell it, only if someone is willing to pay a fair price for it (Trevor said 2500.00).

  

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