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School me on 70's marantz


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I've been obsessed with the looks of the black face blue back lit marantz amps since i was a little kid, imo they are one of the nicest looking series of amplifiers ever made. They are like the amplifier equivalent of classic muscle cars on the looks front. Unfortunately I've never got to own one of these and have only ever heard examples from low down in the line that were in original condition. There are a lot of models in this range such as the 22xx series some of which no doubt sound considerably better then others, some that were never officially imported into Australia and only available in the us etc.

 

I'd like to get a hold of one of these one day, what are some of the better ones to look out for? Interested in power output, sound quality, ease to work on, reliability, average $ value and parts availability such as if it contains unobtainable outputs that can't be easily substituted etc.

Has anyone ever bought US versions of these amps and replaced the transformer in them to convert them to 240v? I assume you'd need to get a custom made transformer which i have no idea what that would cost but I've never liked the idea of step down transformers. They are bulky and something about them doesn't seem like the safest way to do things even though a properly designed one should pose no more electrical risk then any other household appliance. There would also be fm emphasis issues that would need dealing with but are not so important to me because radio these days seems to be 99% talking and not something i bother to listen to anymore. Some tuners have a switch to change de emphasis settings, unsure about marantz gear?.

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Finally, a few minutes to spare. Here's some information for you to digest:   If you can't source a Marantz unit in Australia, then try for a European model. All US Marantz amps will be sole

In the meantime while we're waiting ZB here's my slightly more modest 1122dc. Was my first amplifier and is still going strong.  

Don't worry fellas just to relieve you boys of the guilty feelings I've placed a $150 bid. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I know all there is to know, since I was service manager at Marantz Australia throughout the mid-late 1970s. Ask any questions you like and I will attempt to answer. I will respond with more specific information a little later.

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2 hours ago, Zaphod Beeblebrox said:

I know all there is to know, since I was service manager at Marantz Australia throughout the mid-late 1970s. Ask any questions you like and I will attempt to answer. I will respond with more specific information a little later.

 

The 2270 has taken my interest out of the 22xx line up, I've been thinking of importing one of these from the US for some time now. Some of the earlier units were multi voltage but all I've seen for sale has be fixed 120v only. I found a pulled multi voltage transformer from one the other day on auction and won it cheap so if i do decide to import one 240v conversion shouldn't be much a hassle. I don't think these were really sold much in Australia (could be wrong). 

 

Whats your opinion on this model both sound wise and for overall reliability? a quick dig around the Internet has shown a couple of small design flaws to deal with but nothing out of the ordinary. The model has a good rep around the forums but i consider you the guru on all things marantz so i will steer clear if recommended. If they are a good unit i will save any further questions until i get one and run into any hiccups if i do. 

 

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Finally, a few minutes to spare. Here's some information for you to digest:

 

If you can't source a Marantz unit in Australia, then try for a European model. All US Marantz amps will be solely 117VAC and cannot be adjusted for 240VAC operation. European units will be adjusted for 220VAC operation, but can be changed, via internal links for 240VAC. 

 

Here's some commonly available (imported by Auriema Australia) models, along with some comments:

 

2015. A toy. 15 Watts/channel. TO66 output devices. Probably unobtainable now. Substitutes are available. As I recall, the output stage is based on the 1030 integrated amp. Quasi-complementary outputs (I think).

2215. Another toy. 15 Watts/channel. Flat pack output devices. Less reliable that the TO66 and TO3 output devices. Superior sound quality to the 2215, due to the full complementary outputs. 

2230. More interesting. 30 Watts/channel. TO3 output devices. 

2240. More interesting again. 40 Watts/channel. TO3 output devices.

2270. A serious receiver. Should be quite a few around. 70 Watts/channel. TO3 output devices. Unlike every other Marantz receiver, the 2270 used US made (Motorola output devices). Weird huh? They were all made in Japan. The 2270 shares the same output stage as the Model 140 power amp and the 1150 integrated amp. Sounds good. Lots of features and looks cool. An output stage on each side made service very nice.

2325. A beast. Expensive and heavy. Lots of power. I didn't care much for the sound, but, although rated at 125 Watts @ 8 Ohms, it could easily top 170 Watts/channel @ 8 Ohms. Well over 200 Watts @ 4 Ohms. Watch out for difficult speakers! Like most 1970s stuff, the VI limiting doesn't play well with sub-3 Ohm loads. Very nasty. That said, the 2325 had a nice tuner and everything that you could ever want in a receiver. Same as the 2270 re. service. 4 screws, a couple of plugs and the output stage is on the bench. I wish more manufacturers did this. 

 

I have seen lots of imported models, but those are the ones I am very familiar with. More general comments:

 

* All Marantz amps and receivers from the 1970s delivered significantly more power than their ratings suggested. Figure on at least 20% more in most cases. 

* FM tuner drift will be a problem. Forget about trying to fix it. Live with it, or buy something else.

* Pots were very high quality and should be OK. Switches will be noisy. Can be cleaned in most cases. The 2270 and 2325 switches are very difficult to get to.

* Electros will need replacing.

* ALL Marantz amps and receivers of the time required the use of matched output devices. This is very important and few techs bother. If you want original performance, then you may be up for more money if it has been repaired by an uncaring tech.

* The 2325 and, to a lesser degree, the 2270 will likely have a melted plastic reflector behind the lamps. I doubt they can be purchased any longer. This may be a problem. Or not. Either way, all Marantz receiver should be upgraded with a full LED replacement. I difficult job with the 2325, but the result is absolutely stunning. Far, FAR better than an original lamp replacement. I cannot stress this more. 

 

More tomorrow..

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I think i am pretty sold on the 2270, this will be my first proper old marantz, been wanting to play around with one of these for years. I restored a few low end 80's marantz receivers in my teens which at the time seemed great but older me doesn't much care for their sound at all anymore, they were loud for their small output i guess.. also had more grain to their sound then a bag of wheat. 

 

Having a pulled multi voltage transformer from a 2270 does also swing my choice in favor of the 2270 since they seem fairly common in the us and it will let me do away with the need for a step down transformer. Are there any other differences in the 117v models and multi voltage besides the transformer such as a higher rated power switch etc?

 

Zb, whats the best colour leds you've found to get the original colour back in the display? I much prefer the bright blue colour over the dark blue leds. I'd think warm white would closest match the original display but I've heard some say they make the meters look wrong and that bright white is the best choice.

Edited by VA50
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4 minutes ago, betocool said:

No exactly the one you're looking for... but still.

 

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Marantz-2275b-Reciever-/172789558855?hash=item283b0f6e47:g:7UAAAOSwCEBZcsXk

 

I'm not selling it nor am I familiar with the seller. Just saw it and though I'd mention it.

 

Cheers,

 

Alberto

 

Stop that!

Now I've gone and bid on it!

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6 minutes ago, betocool said:

@LogicprObe better the devil you know (and so on and so forth). I'm busy enough as it is, I almost bid for it as well... Good luck!

 

Only because it was in Sydney......................if another member wants it...................let me know!

 

(I only bid 50 bucks anyway..............I'm sure it will go for a lot more than that................or the auction will mysteriously close...........)

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Don't worry fellas just to relieve you boys of the guilty feelings I've placed a $150 bid.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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If I may, I'd like to request that in case an SNA member gets said receiver, he let us know and what he thinks about it.

 

Cheers,

 

Alberto

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The 2275 isn't what i'm looking for looks wise, i'm after a black face marantz but i'll defiantly keep an eye on it because looks are only part of it and if i don'y buy it, it will give me an idea on vlaue anyway. I should probably finish and sell the Ta-5650 first before i go getting marantz or i'll never be able to part with either and i already have a growing collection, damn audio addiction that i didn't need! I'm reluctant to make myself find and fix the last tiny problem with the sony though- I've got this far without breaking anything. If i was to let it go right now there's a 2270 I've got my eye on that i'd be putting my name on!

 

 

Edit: Has anyone had much experience buying from the US with the global shipping program regarding import tax etc? 

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4 hours ago, Happy said:

I'm outbid already lol


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Ebay wants me to bid again!

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3 hours ago, LogicprObe said:

 

Ebay wants me to bid again!

 

I only looked at the link now it's following me everywhere on the internet saying it's still available and I should bid.

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12 hours ago, MrRogers said:

What about the model 500?


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Haha. You'll have to pry that beast from my cold, dead hands. Only 300 built and the best thing to come out of California. 

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56 minutes ago, Martykt said:

 

There ya go, no need to do nasty things to ZB..... :P 

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/332310454196?_mwBanner=1

 

 

Bargain! Even so, mine has the original cover plate for the front terminals, the original packing box and instruction manual. It is also original inside. Worth somewhat more, I suspect.  

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25 minutes ago, Zaphod Beeblebrox said:

 

Bargain! Even so, mine has the original cover plate for the front terminals, the original packing box and instruction manual. It is also original inside. Worth somewhat more, I suspect.  

 

@Zaphod Beeblebrox how many PMs have you had so far from hopeful beneficiaries? :-)

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26 minutes ago, Zaphod Beeblebrox said:

 

Bargain! Even so, mine has the original cover plate for the front terminals, the original packing box and instruction manual. It is also original inside. Worth somewhat more, I suspect.  

 

You do realise you have to share photos now don't you ZB !! :D 

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1 minute ago, Martykt said:

 

You do realise you have to share photos now don't you ZB !! :D 

 

In truth, it has been in storage for a very long time. I'll dig it out one day for some photos. I did hire the amp out for an advertising shoot about 10 years ago. Static display only. They just wanted it to light up. 

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8 minutes ago, Happy said:

ZB do you rate M's pre 70 valve gear too? 7c etc?


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I only ever serviced one of their valve preamps. Nicely built, but no chance of running it in my own system, so, no real comments there I'm afraid. All their good SS stuff has spent some time in my system though. In truth, the 3300 preamp was the pinacle. I didn't much care for the 3600 and 3800 preamps. The 240/250/250M power amps were very nice and the 510/510M were sonic disasters. 

 

And, of course, the Model 500 was friggin' awesome. 

Edited by Zaphod Beeblebrox
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In the meantime while we're waiting ZB here's my slightly more modest 1122dc.

Was my first amplifier and is still going strong.

 

IMG_3205.thumb.JPG.014f20bdade2fe45c638ec78e6bea0e8.JPG

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12 hours ago, VA50 said:

The 2275 isn't what i'm looking for looks wise, i'm after a black face marantz but i'll defiantly keep an eye on it because looks are only part of it and if i don'y buy it, it will give me an idea on vlaue anyway. I should probably finish and sell the Ta-5650 first before i go getting marantz or i'll never be able to part with either and i already have a growing collection, damn audio addiction that i didn't need! I'm reluctant to make myself find and fix the last tiny problem with the sony though- I've got this far without breaking anything. If i was to let it go right now there's a 2270 I've got my eye on that i'd be putting my name on!

 

 

Edit: Has anyone had much experience buying from the US with the global shipping program regarding import tax etc? 

 

Looks like you've pretty much convinced yourself. The 2270 is a pretty reliable old thing, apart from the already listed issues (reflector, FM drift) and there should reasonable numbers available in Australia. Since it used Motorola output devices, that means they were aluminium cased types and MUCH less reliable than any of the Japanese devices of the time. I have no idea why they chose to use them, but, the good news is that you can substitute with ME15003/MJ15004 (matched, of course) devices for very good long term reliability, since Motorola long ago switched to the more reliable, steel casing. Many will have already been replaced, but I would check for unmatched devices. It's not an easy job, replacing the lamps in this model (though much easier than the 2325) and, if you do, watch out for the dial cord! Damage that and you are in a world of pain. 

 

Now, having said all that, the real gem of that period is the Model 1200b, integrated amp. Superb sound quality. Far superior to any of the Japanese amps. Ugly as a hatful and a PITA to work on, but the sound quality is way up there. It used the output stages of the 240/250/250M power amps and a preamp section derived from the mighty 3300. First Marantz I ever owned. Amazing amp. If you must have a receiver, then the Model 18 is the pick. VERY scarce and horrendously expensive (US$1,200.00 in 1968). It was the most powerful receiver on Earth back then (60 Watts/channel). None were officially imported into Australia. I have one, but it is in terrible cosmetic shape. Sound is excellent, though the FM is way below more modern units, like the 2270. 

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1 hour ago, Martykt said:

In the meantime while we're waiting ZB here's my slightly more modest 1122dc.

Was my first amplifier and is still going strong.

 

IMG_3205.thumb.JPG.014f20bdade2fe45c638ec78e6bea0e8.JPG

 

Nice. That was a good series of Marantz integrated amps. The 1122DC was probably the pick of the bunch. 

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10 minutes ago, Zaphod Beeblebrox said:

 

Nice. That was a good series of Marantz integrated amps. The 1122DC was probably the pick of the bunch. 

 

Has always been a solid amp.

It had plenty of grunt despite the rating and always sounded great.

Hooked up to a pair of 70s 12" 3ways and job done !! :thumb:

 

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On 21/07/2017 at 6:45 PM, VA50 said:

 

The 2270 has taken my interest out of the 22xx line up, I've been thinking of importing one of these from the US for some time now. Some of the earlier units were multi voltage but all I've seen for sale has be fixed 120v only. I found a pulled multi voltage transformer from one the other day on auction and won it cheap so if i do decide to import one 240v conversion shouldn't be much a hassle. I don't think these were really sold much in Australia (could be wrong).

 

Step down transformers don't cost anything these days. The fact that a piece of kit is 120volt shouldn't really be a problem these days if you want it. To be honest though, Marantz is just a name. It doesn't really rate for me for what people will pay for them these days. I don't get why people pay so much for them now.

Edited by Roumelio.
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Step down transformers don't cost anything these days. The fact that a piece of kit is 120volt shouldn't really be a problem these days if you want it. To be honest though, Marantz is just a name. It doesn't really rate for me for what people will pay for them these days. I don't get why people pay so much for them now.


Which ones have you owned? You didn't like them?


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24 minutes ago, Roumelio. said:

 

Step down transformers don't cost anything these days. The fact that a piece of kit is 120volt shouldn't really be a problem these days if you want it. To be honest though, Marantz is just a name. It doesn't really rate for me for what people will pay for them these days. I don't get why people pay so much for them now.

 

Depends on the Marantz. Some models, like the 1200b, sound exceptionally good. Even today. The receivers we/ve been discussing were very good performers in their day. Not outstanding today, but certainly no slouches either. Component quality, design and construction was, in the main, of a high standard. LOOKS, however, is what it is all about. The 'blackout' faced Marantz receivers are highly desirable because of their looks. 

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2 hours ago, Happy said:

 


Which ones have you owned? You didn't like them?


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It's not that I don't like them, it's that they come up now and its what everyone goes to since this vintage revolution has really kicked on. There is so much more than Marantz. I had a 1060, it's a nice amp but really there is so much more out there.

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2 hours ago, Roumelio. said:

 

Step down transformers don't cost anything these days. The fact that a piece of kit is 120volt shouldn't really be a problem these days if you want it. To be honest though, Marantz is just a name. It doesn't really rate for me for what people will pay for them these days. I don't get why people pay so much for them now.

 

While step down transformers are cheap they are still another thing you have to find a space for, many of the cheap ones i have seen are less then stellar as well. In this case i can easily convert a US 2270 to 240v and remove the hassle of a step down transformer and it cost me way less then even the cheapest of step down transformers, that is if i purchase a 2270 from the US. If i was to buy another model though it requiring a step down transformer wouldn't stop me its more just something i'd like to avoid if i can. Regarding what people pay for the marantz gear unfortunately its like classic cars, they will only continue to rise and while newer ones may be better there is no substitute for the looks and the simple ruggedness of the old gear. That said I've heard many older receivers that sound great and better then a lot of the new gear getting around, its just with prices increasing bang for buck in older equipment is slowly going down.

 

@Zaphod Beeblebrox regarding replacing the outputs, if i was to use a quality substitute from on semi for example what would be a good quantity to purchase to find good matches? If the unit had the original Motorola devices still working would it still be advisable to replace them? Most of the 2270's for sale or any marantz gear for that matter I've seen for sale has had led replacement back lights, a quick deoxit of the pots and a "fully restored" label thrown on it. I highly doubt many of them have been done properly though, the few receivers I've converted to led's have all used ac for the back lights and i had to make a rectified and filtered supply, a simple diode in line isn't enough and i can certainly see the flicker, i doubt the marantz gear is any different. 

 

 

Edited by VA50
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It's not that I don't like them, it's that they come up now and its what everyone goes to since this vintage revolution has really kicked on. There is so much more than Marantz. I had a 1060, it's a nice amp but really there is so much more out there.


Hmm 1060 not exactly where the following occurs


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It's not really linear newer does not mean its better than older and older does not mean its better than newer. Not all people like the same things. I'm not a huge fan of the Marantz because of the look. I had a 1060 it sounded good for what it was, I moved on. I had a National Panasonic SA-420 for a while, and now I've got a Pioneer SA-400. Both of the later are ugly ducklings. To be honest though, I get some people like the look of the Marantz but it really doesn't do much for me. There are some interesting Sherwood receivers that I think are really neat (Japanese Sherwood not the later stuff) such as the S-9400 which is also really thought out as an amplifier also.

 

I just said from my perspective, Marantz is just a name, there are so many other options when it comes to vintage receivers and amplifiers. If you like Marantz that's great, it just doesn't do much for me.

 

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9 minutes ago, Roumelio. said:

It's not really linear newer does not mean its better than older and older does not mean its better than newer. Not all people like the same things. I'm not a huge fan of the Marantz because of the look. I had a 1060 it sounded good for what it was, I moved on. I had a National Panasonic SA-420 for a while, and now I've got a Pioneer SA-400. Both of the later are ugly ducklings. To be honest though, I get some people like the look of the Marantz but it really doesn't do much for me. There are some interesting Sherwood receivers that I think are really neat (Japanese Sherwood not the later stuff) such as the S-9400 which is also really thought out as an amplifier also.

 

I just said from my perspective, Marantz is just a name, there are so many other options when it comes to vintage receivers and amplifiers. If you like Marantz that's great, it just doesn't do much for me.

 

 

I like too many amplifiers 

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1 hour ago, Roumelio. said:

 

It's not that I don't like them, it's that they come up now and its what everyone goes to since this vintage revolution has really kicked on. There is so much more than Marantz. I had a 1060, it's a nice amp but really there is so much more out there.

 

The 1060 was warm, woolly, moderately reliable and a very long way behind those models that followed it. If you're judging Marantz on the 1060, then I don't blame you for feeling that the stuff is over-rated. The 1060 was an average performer. 

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1 hour ago, VA50 said:

 

 

 

@Zaphod Beeblebrox regarding replacing the outputs, if i was to use a quality substitute from on semi for example what would be a good quantity to purchase to find good matches?

 

You'd probably have to buy 20 - 30 of each NPN and PNP device. At around $8.00 ~ $10.00 each, that makes it an expensive exercise. 

 

1 hour ago, VA50 said:

 

If the unit had the original Motorola devices still working would it still be advisable to replace them?

 

Only if you had some matched sets on hand. Otherwise, leave them until they fail. If they fail. 

 

1 hour ago, VA50 said:

 

Most of the 2270's for sale or any marantz gear for that matter I've seen for sale has had led replacement back lights, a quick deoxit of the pots and a "fully restored" label thrown on it. I highly doubt many of them have been done properly though, the few receivers I've converted to led's have all used ac for the back lights and i had to make a rectified and filtered supply, a simple diode in line isn't enough and i can certainly see the flicker, i doubt the marantz gear is any different. 

 

 

 

Correct. I always build a proper DC supply as well. 

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8 minutes ago, Zaphod Beeblebrox said:

 

The 1060 was warm, woolly, moderately reliable and a very long way behind those models that followed it. If you're judging Marantz on the 1060, then I don't blame you for feeling that the stuff is over-rated. The 1060 was an average performer. 

 

You're right it wasn't the most reliable performer I've had, but I do like to try lots of different things and then move on with it. At the moment I'm pretty set on the Pioneer though. It's one of the most interesting valve amplifiers I've heard. Flat as a tack, my only wish is that it had a little bit more power.

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