Steven Hinchliffe Posted July 15, 2017 Author Share Posted July 15, 2017 I wasn't aware you could lay carpet tiles over underlay... you might want to check up on that. Will double check; I think it comes down to the type of underlay, the size of the tiles, and whether or not they're stuck down with adhesive tape...Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter the Greek Posted July 15, 2017 Share Posted July 15, 2017 With soundproofing, do or do not, there is no try By that I mean, half measures always lead to disappointment and frustration. In my experience its either all in or nothing at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkn Posted July 15, 2017 Share Posted July 15, 2017 Hi Wiffle I would suggest not to line gyprock ceiling sheets against any walls. It sounds like little thing but it is important that you don't see pictures http://www.jirihifi.com/my_projects_music_room_01.htm 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Hinchliffe Posted July 15, 2017 Author Share Posted July 15, 2017 Thanks@jkn I wasn't planning on attaching the ceiling directly to the walls; was planning on Greenglue sealant [emoji5]Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Hinchliffe Posted July 17, 2017 Author Share Posted July 17, 2017 So I've just come across something interesting; Greenglue specifically state that their product is not a permanent adhesive, and hence gyprock sheets still need to be attached to the studs in the mnner prescribed by the building code. If that's the case, how are you guys attaching them to the underside of the floor above? @Peter the Greek @125dBmonster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter the Greek Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Wiffle said: So I've just come across something interesting; Greenglue specifically state that their product is not a permanent adhesive, and hence gyprock sheets still need to be attached to the studs in the mnner prescribed by the building code. If that's the case, how are you guys attaching them to the underside of the floor above? @Peter the Greek @125dBmonster Screws Edit: there should be details on the GG website, but less is more. Basically as few as physically necessary to hold the weight....or just do it to "code" Edited July 17, 2017 by Peter the Greek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 3 hours ago, Wiffle said: So I've just come across something interesting; Greenglue specifically state that their product is not a permanent adhesive, and hence gyprock sheets still need to be attached to the studs in the mnner prescribed by the building code. If that's the case, how are you guys attaching them to the underside of the floor above? @Peter the Greek @125dBmonster I use sicaflex it is a urethane based goo/glue that sets flexable. Similar stuff holds the windscreen in your car. Have built a sound lounge using this stuff instead of stud adhesive (blue) and then pulled out all the screws, from the wall and ceiling plaster (13mm CSR Perforated) and double layer 10mm for the walls. Nothing has moved even slightly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Hinchliffe Posted July 17, 2017 Author Share Posted July 17, 2017 I use sicaflex it is a urethane based goo/glue that sets flexable. Similar stuff holds the windscreen in your car. Have built a sound lounge using this stuff instead of stud adhesive (blue) and then pulled out all the screws, from the wall and ceiling plaster (13mm CSR Perforated) and double layer 10mm for the walls. Nothing has moved even slightly. I've used Sikaflex before and agree it's a great product! Should I consider using this to glue a layer or two of plaster to the floorboards and omit the greenglue in this location, knowing that I'll still be hanging an isolated ceiling from the bottom of the joists? Seems pretty pointless to use expensive greenglue for its isolation properties and then directly screw the plaster sheets to the floorboards!!! [emoji53]Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter the Greek Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 17 minutes ago, Wiffle said: isolation properties GG is for damping, not isolation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Hinchliffe Posted July 17, 2017 Author Share Posted July 17, 2017 GG is for damping, not isolation Now I think you're just arguing over semantics. Damping is the ability of a material to slow/stop vibration, and isolation is the ability to prevent vibration from transferring to another material. If Sikaflex maintains a flexible structure when dry it will surely also provide a measure of damping, and providing damping also helps to prevent soundwaves transferring to the adjacent medium, hence providing a measure of isolation as well. In either case it was you who initially posted there was no point using fancy materials if you're then going to hard-connect (ie screw) them to the structure that you're trying to prevent sound entering... OR have I missed something...Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter the Greek Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 In soundproofing speak there are 3 distinct components: - mass - isolation - damping So its not really semantics, its important not to confuse the second two. You see all sorts of nonsense like people putting GG on studs instead of stud adhesive etc etc Is it floorboards directly above? or some sort of chipboard and then floorboards on top? if its direct, I'd glue (liquidnails) 16mm chip board on first (no screws) and then do 1 layer of gyprock with GG I dont have a reference, but I recall looking at sikaflex v gg years back. Its chaulk and cheese, I'd not waste your time with it. Sikaflex sets reasonably hard still....GG stays pretty gooey, its entire life. Its awful stuff to dismantle if you cock it up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Hinchliffe Posted July 17, 2017 Author Share Posted July 17, 2017 7 minutes ago, Peter the Greek said: In soundproofing speak there are 3 distinct components: - mass - isolation - damping So its not really semantics, its important not to confuse the second two. You see all sorts of nonsense like people putting GG on studs instead of stud adhesive etc etc Is it floorboards directly above? or some sort of chipboard and then floorboards on top? if its direct, I'd glue (liquidnails) 16mm chip board on first (no screws) and then do 1 layer of gyprock with GG I dont have a reference, but I recall looking at sikaflex v gg years back. Its chaulk and cheese, I'd not waste your time with it. Sikaflex sets reasonably hard still....GG stays pretty gooey, its entire life. Its awful stuff to dismantle if you cock it up Yes it is floorboards directly above, so I'll start with your suggestion of chipboard glued to the boards, and then GG/screws attaching a layer of 16mm Fyrchek to that. Then a double layer of batts (to fill the void space). Then the isolated ceiling under that (again Fyrcheck)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter the Greek Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 6 minutes ago, Wiffle said: Yes it is floorboards directly above, so I'll start with your suggestion of chipboard glued to the boards, and then GG/screws attaching a layer of 16mm Fyrchek to that. Then a double layer of batts (to fill the void space). Then the isolated ceiling under that (again Fyrcheck)... Yep, that's how I'd do it. The chip board will add mass, but also has some damping properties and gives you something to screw the gyprock into. I'd caulk any gap between the chipboard and the floor joists whilst you're at it. It'll help a little with soundproofing, but will also materially improve air leakage (energy efficiency) of the room above Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 1 hour ago, Wiffle said: I've used Sikaflex before and agree it's a great product! Should I consider using this to glue a layer or two of plaster to the floorboards and omit the greenglue in this location, knowing that I'll still be hanging an isolated ceiling from the bottom of the joists? Seems pretty pointless to use expensive greenglue for its isolation properties and then directly screw the plaster sheets to the floorboards!!! Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk I use the cheap 12 buck tubes of urthane from Bunnings have never used the green goop as I find it is not as good as the black rubber goo (black sica type stuff) and double the price as it has (acoustic properties) on the label I will guarantee the sica type stuff will bond fairly well any building product to any other type of building product, given a day to cure See in showcase "Battery Bassed Audiophile" about half way in to the 100 pages and there is a link some pages back here. Plenty of finished photos and construction progress, took almost 6 months. Worth a look, I don't look back, beautiful space resulted for all to enjoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 On 15/07/2017 at 6:29 PM, Peter the Greek said: With soundproofing, do or do not, there is no try By that I mean, half measures always lead to disappointment and frustration. In my experience its either all in or nothing at all +1 Do it once and do it well I said something about that earlier end result is with acoustic treatment, you get out what you put in An example, I spent all weekend treating 2 doors of my work bus with a butyl rubber lead backed vehicle acoustic liner, the doors don't have speakers, did such a great job have decided to do the whole vehicle, hang the cost and time, it's worth my comfort (and the Family on those long drives) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter the Greek Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 11 minutes ago, 125dBmonster said: +1 Do it once and do it well I said something about that earlier end result is with acoustic treatment, you get out what you put in An example, I spent all weekend treating 2 doors of my work bus with a butyl rubber lead backed vehicle acoustic liner, the doors don't have speakers, did such a great job have decided to do the whole vehicle, hang the cost and time, it's worth my comfort (and the Family on those long drives) Is that for soundproofing? we need to do something similar with a Honda side by side ATV we have. The engine is so damn noisy with a roof and windscreen on. Is it difficult to use? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 12 hours ago, Peter the Greek said: Is that for soundproofing? we need to do something similar with a Honda side by side ATV we have. The engine is so damn noisy with a roof and windscreen on. Is it difficult to use? no not really hard to use, I took the time to wash out the inside and outside of the door (after taking them apart) then cut, peel off the backing and put on. Fantastic the difference it makes, will go well in the whole Troopy Like any acoustic treatment it takes a little time, patients and a few dollars. I was working with $150 worth of the stuff and have a little under half left, so will get in another lot to finish up the fire wall, foot wells, transmission tunnel and rear of the door pillars, kick panels and where ever else I can find. Ultimately as we both know, once you have started "treating" and knowing the benefits of a truly good job, you can't stop. Each door is 3Kg heaver, and very unlike a Toyota door at this point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 17, 2017 Share Posted July 17, 2017 the plastic sheet went back on then the poxy brown door skin, looks the same car drives different and doors don't ring anymore Might just have to add a pair of nice 6" woofers and complete the 3 way stage in front of the old Troopy Details at "Battery Bassed Audiophile Beyond" last few pages All stereo's require acoustic treatment, none are exempt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjc Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 Now I think you're just arguing over semantics. Damping is the ability of a material to slow/stop vibration, and isolation is the ability to prevent vibration from transferring to another material. If Sikaflex maintains a flexible structure when dry it will surely also provide a measure of damping, and providing damping also helps to prevent soundwaves transferring to the adjacent medium, hence providing a measure of isolation as well. In either case it was you who initially posted there was no point using fancy materials if you're then going to hard-connect (ie screw) them to the structure that you're trying to prevent sound entering... OR have I missed something... Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk My understanding is that you will attach the gyprock via screws to the resilient channel (normal method used) but the channelling will be held by the whisper clips which is the isolation from the floor... Green glue would be used in place of the current fixing glue/putty mix that is used on channelling, studs and joists etc and between the second layer of gyprock. Am I wrong here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HdB Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 This thread is an excellent collection of information - should have a link on the 'Room Acoustics' header 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Hinchliffe Posted August 14, 2017 Author Share Posted August 14, 2017 Hey folks fwiw I've got the layer of chipboard attached to the floor and caulked, and greenglue has arrived. I'll get the fyrcheck for between the joists in the next week or so; need an assistant to put it up as it needs to be accurate to ensure a close fit for effective caulking, and I can't hold the panels up and attach them by myself whilst 3m up a ladder. Will be a slow job but going to do it right... Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk PS pic taken before I did the caulking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Hinchliffe Posted August 14, 2017 Author Share Posted August 14, 2017 My understanding is that you will attach the gyprock via screws to the resilient channel (normal method used) but the channelling will be held by the whisper clips which is the isolation from the floor... Green glue would be used in place of the current fixing glue/putty mix that is used on channelling, studs and joists etc and between the second layer of gyprock. Am I wrong here? You're not wrong in principle, but this first layer of gyprock will be attached with GG/screws to the chipboard you see in the pic above. Then batts, and finally the resilient mounts/hat channel/gyprock suspended below the joists. Hope that makes sense...[emoji5]Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjc Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 Would be interesting to hear your thoughts on the difference in foot traffic sound and from downstairs through to upstairs after this chipboarding? I'm assuming your screws are short! I'm pondering a similar decision but my ceiling height downstairs is only 2mts with a central beam at 1.85mt!Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter the Greek Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 (edited) Despite its name, GG is not an adhesive. Its to be used between sheets of material only. Fixed together with screws. As few as necessarily to comply with local building codes Edited August 14, 2017 by Peter the Greek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Hinchliffe Posted August 14, 2017 Author Share Posted August 14, 2017 Despite its name, GG is not an adhesive. Its to be used between sheets of material only. Fixed together with screws. As few as necessarily to comply with local building codes Yep, you've already mentioned that, and the guys at greenglue Australia did too...Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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