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2 hours ago, crisis said:

The "experience" of live music cannot be denied but it is about a lot more than the fidelity of the reproduction of the instruments. A studio recording of any instrument will be more faithfully reproduced than any live concert PA can ever achieve. Its not a bad thing but it is different.

No greater musical experience than a good "live" gig. While a recording can also be a good experience (it must be, I have 9,000 albums) it can never replace a good "live" musical experience. So you are incorrect with different, a good "live" gig is better. Do you attend "live" music regularly? If not, then why not?

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Guest Simonon

We all like to open cans of worms in the world of hifi. Probably the best feedback I have ever had about my system has been from musician friends who play different instruments in different musical genres including classical/ jazz. One of these guys also happened to be a very good broadcast engineer who made his own electrostatic speakers in the 70s. Sadly these guys are slowly dissapearing along with their knowledge gained over decades. On Sunday I had the pleasure of visiting one of these engineers and listening to his Klipsch horns with his home made tube amp and a Garrard 401. I left wanting to learn as much as possible and hopefully pass this knowledge on. I get as much pleasure from seeing an old garrard spinning, the glow of some El34s and the reels turn on Revox as listening to a high end system. The nostalgia value of vintage hifi is something you cant put a price on.

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I wouldn't call it necessarily nostalgic. I never seen any valves or R2R when I was little yet I find them aesthetically pleasing, which played a big role in my direction to go with horns, valves and idler tables.


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2 hours ago, TerryO said:

 

Unfortunately most Australian beer is crappy.

 

cheers Terry

Hop Thief.

Hop Hog.

Mornington Pale.

Stone & Wood Pacific.

Quiet Deeds Pale.

Newtowner Pale.

Kosciousko.

Vale Ale Pale & IPA

Williams Organic Pale.

One Fifty Lashes.

Yenda Pale.

And a few others...

All disagree.

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1 hour ago, initforthemusic said:

No greater musical experience than a good "live" gig. While a recording can also be a good experience (it must be, I have 9,000 albums) it can never replace a good "live" musical experience. So you are incorrect with different, a good "live" gig is better. Do you attend "live" music regularly? If not, then why not?

 

9000 albums!  Sheesh!  :thumb:

 

Andy

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44 minutes ago, Happy said:

I wouldn't call it necessarily nostalgic. I never seen any valves or R2R when I was little yet I find them aesthetically pleasing, which played a big role in my direction to go with horns, valves and idler tables.

 

Horns, valves and idler tables, H!!  You are beyond redemption!  :P

 

Andy

 

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12 hours ago, THOMO said:

Yes and no.

I am yet to hear a 2  way speaker that matches a decent 3 way which uses a dedicated midrange driver.

Especially ones that try to produce bass below about 70 hz.

Recently I have owned and used some very good and highly regarded 2 ways but none of them come close to my 3 ways.

The drivers are just having to do too much and they tend to crossover to a tweeter right where the hearing is most sensitive.

I suppose there might be some good $2000-$3000 3 way speakers ?They seem to have become a bit unfashionable which is probably a shame.

 

Agreed 2 ways don't keep up with 3 ways, so the comparison would need to be lower cost 3 way vs higher cost 3 way.

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12 hours ago, THOMO said:

Yes and no.

I am yet to hear a 2  way speaker that matches a decent 3 way which uses a dedicated midrange driver.

Especially ones that try to produce bass below about 70 hz.

Recently I have owned and used some very good and highly regarded 2 ways but none of them come close to my 3 ways.

The drivers are just having to do too much and they tend to cross over to a tweeter right where the hearing is most sensitive.

 

AIUI, XO frequencies need to be outside the 300 - 3Khz band, for best sound.

 

This is pretty hard to do, in a 2-way.

 

Andy

 

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On 7/12/2017 at 7:20 PM, initforthemusic said:

No greater musical experience than a good "live" gig. While a recording can also be a good experience (it must be, I have 9,000 albums) it can never replace a good "live" musical experience. So you are incorrect with different, a good "live" gig is better. Do you attend "live" music regularly? If not, then why not?

you don't need to "replace" a "good live experience". As I said live music is a whole lot more than "just" the music. I stand by my claim that well recorded music will be more faithful to the source.

And FWIW yes I "attend live music". Probably not as regularly as I would like but whenever someone is playing I want to see/hear/experience. In fact I used to play it.

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On 7/12/2017 at 7:32 PM, Simonon said:

 On Sunday I had the pleasure of visiting one of these engineers and listening to his Klipsch horns with his home made tube amp and a Garrard 401. I left wanting to learn as much as possible and hopefully pass this knowledge on. I get as much pleasure from seeing an old garrard spinning, the glow of some El34s and the reels turn on Revox as listening to a high end system. The nostalgia value of vintage hifi is something you cant put a price on.

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Nostalgia is one thing but did this system compete sound wise with a comparable (whatever that is) current system?

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Guest Simonon

The system sounded nice and would have been even better if the room was bigger. This is what I was getting at in an earlier post. Room size and layout suit certain types of speakers and these Klipsch horns were huge with no room to move in their location. In a bigger room allowing for optimum placement they would sound different again. I think it impossible to compare any speaker old or new as they vary so much with the main criterea being speaker size to suit the room size and room acoustics with the ability to shift into the best position. If I were buying a new set of expensive speakers I would want to hear them at home with some others to compare and not rely on what I hear at the shop. For me I like the nostalgia of my 1963 ABC monitors with type3 tube amps that I restored and luckily suit my listening room. My friend would not part with his Klipsch horns for some new speakers in a million years. Cost, performance, sound etc in this case do not come into the equation although they sound superb. If I were in the market for a set of speakers I would probably find a set of Yamaha NS1000s as I have heard these at a number of places and am impressed with their sound and adaptability.
Enjoying this thread [emoji3]

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17 hours ago, crisis said:

you don't need to "replace" a "good live experience". As I said live music is a whole lot more than "just" the music. I stand by my claim that well recorded music will be more faithful to the source.

And FWIW yes I "attend live music". Probably not as regularly as I would like but whenever someone is playing I want to see/hear/experience. In fact I used to play it.

Obviuosly you havn't experienced the "right" live gigs then. You appear to be still struggling with the whole concept, even though you have had some very good responses to your question. Hopefully one day you will "get it."

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14 minutes ago, initforthemusic said:

Obviuosly you havn't experienced the "right" live gigs then. You appear to be still struggling with the whole concept, even though you have had some very good responses to your question. Hopefully one day you will "get it."

 

Wow. Most patronising post of the year or what?

Edited by Hergest
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Guest Simonon

Some of my worst auditory experiences have been at live gigs. Too loud, crowded, poor acoustics, crap mixing, cigarette smoke, too far away from the action, artist I liked on record crap live, too drunk. I have been to some excellent gigs though but you cant compare live music to home listening....period.

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Guest Simonon

Even got hit on the side of the head by a bottle at a Dire Straits concert......knocked me out cold and spent the concert in the ambulance tent.

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27 minutes ago, Simonon said:

Even got hit on the side of the head by a bottle at a Dire Straits concert......knocked me out cold and spent the concert in the ambulance tent.

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Did they have speakers in there?

 

  I totally agree about "live", some of the most disappointing musical experiences I have had. I've travelled to NY to hear Bruce & the E Street, what a **** sound, really bummed, but, loved NY. Saw Adele in Sydney & the only time I remember thinking the sounds were a bit average was less than five, as in wincing or plain horrified at the sound guy. What a set of lungs!! I've been in the room with accomplished artists while they are singing & thought "really"? Some people aren't much without a mixer behind them & lot's of back rubbing. Bit like the ego's here... :wacko:

 

 

 

 

sometimes!

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There is absolutely no logic in saying the sound you hear from amplified live rock/pop gigs where people throw beer bottles and chant together should represent the pinnacle of the sound quality one should expect from home audio reproduction. It's just that you have a sweet-spot for that kind of live experience. Nothing more or less than that. 

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1 hour ago, Hergest said:

 

Wow. Most patronising post of the year or what?

 

Definitely.

 BTW, I love live gigs and attend them regularly, but now I'm worried that they may not be the right gigs:unsure:

 

Meh. I love them anyway:)

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On 12/07/2017 at 5:26 PM, DRC said:

There is also a speaker journey attached to the story. But for the sake of brevity I had not commented on the speakers used. Speakers used over the years would be keeping in line with the quality of amp and source equipment, and there has been some cross over (no pun intended) between amp and speakers over that time. Speakers were JBL TLX8 (? testing my memory), then Duntech Viscount, Spendor S9e and Krell LAT-1.

The Krell LAT 1 in pic below is an example in this discussion, I believe made around circa 2005 a $50K rrp multidriver MTMWWW speaker, about the time when Krell diversifies into making speakers. The use of the tweeter has drawn some online commentary in that it is well performing $40-50 Vifa XT25 ring radiator unit, next are the relatively expensive $250 each twin 5 inch Scanspeak slit paper mids, then what appear to be $300 each 8 inch triple Scanspeak paper carbon cone woofers, plus decent looking crossover in a large aluminium enclosure (plus design and marketing costs), estimated parts cost maybe around $5-6k per pair, which equates to the $50K rrp impressive looking tower speaker.

 

No other inference is being here and there are many factors surrounding this such as the manufacturer gets the parts cheaper than those available otherwise.

IMG_0914.JPG

Edited by Al.M
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Guest Simonon

I allluded to this in an earlier post with the electronics and drivers being the least expensive items. A manufacturer needs to cover costs includind R&D plus make a profit based on the number of units projected to sell......a huge risk. Hence the high price for some of the boutique brands. A more mainstream brand such as Duntech, JBL or Yamaha will be cheaper in many cases due to mass production and tooling. Cost in many cases with speakers and amps is irrelevent due to this factor. It depends on whether you are hapoy with some of the popular brands where they manufacture in quantity to keep costs down. The bigger manufacturers also outsource componentry to places like China etc.

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I allluded to this in an earlier post with the electronics and drivers being the least expensive items. A manufacturer needs to cover costs includind R&D plus make a profit based on the number of units projected to sell......a huge risk. Hence the high price for some of the boutique brands. A more mainstream brand such as Duntech, JBL or Yamaha will be cheaper in many cases due to mass production and tooling. Cost in many cases with speakers and amps is irrelevent due to this factor. It depends on whether you are hapoy with some of the popular brands where they manufacture in quantity to keep costs down. The bigger manufacturers also outsource componentry to places like China etc.

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What about them panel speakers?


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