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Nad T773 Hiss

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I was wondering if anyone can provide any light on this issue for me.

I purchased a NAD T773 receiver earlier this year, which I noticed had slight hiss from all channels.

I rang the audio shop, did what they suggested (verify setup etc), and ended up packing it up and returning for unit service.

The end result was the distributor and the shop say "it's normal, and Rotels do it too."

It drives me insane, that when I listen to music, I can hear slight hiss during quiet passages and between tracks etc.

I am not a happy camper, nor am I convinced, but what can I do?

Can anyone verify "it's normal"?

Thanks

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Sell the NAD, buy something else, and don't ever touch a NAD product again?

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I was wondering if anyone can provide any light on this issue for me.

I purchased a NAD T773 receiver earlier this year, which I noticed had slight hiss from all channels.

I rang the audio shop, did what they suggested (verify setup etc), and ended up packing it up and returning for unit service.

The end result was the distributor and the shop say "it's normal, and Rotels do it too."

It drives me insane, that when I listen to music, I can hear slight hiss during quiet passages and between tracks etc.

I am not a happy camper, nor am I convinced, but what can I do?

Can anyone verify "it's normal"?

Thanks

[/b]

Can you hear the hiss from your normal seating position or do you have to get close to the speakers.If you can hear hiss when at your normal position at average levels than that is not acceptable and my Rotel prepro/power certainly doesn't have that problem.

Gordon

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No hiss in my Denon unless I crank the volume with nothing playing.

I think most amps will hiss when full volume is applied with no source playing though.

If you can hear hiss while playing Cd's I think you should demand another amp.

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Ditto Grumpy's response................there should be no audible hiss at the listening position at normal listening gain with no input signal.

All amps will have some hiss at high levels if you stick your ears near the tweeter................usually just barely audible.

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Thanks for your support guys.

It prompted me to get off my but and e-mail the reseller re me-not-happy with outcome.

The audio reseller has onsent the e-mail "to the big brass in Sydney", bypassing the local service agent.

I hope for a favourable response.

Thanks again.

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Hope it all goes well.

If things go well, and your not happy having another NAD, what will you be looking at next?

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Hope it all goes well.

If things go well, and your not happy having another NAD, what will you be looking at next?

[/b]

Hi Grumpy

I haven't thought that far ahead, but I did want to stick with a HT receiver.

I am sad to say my recent NAD experience has left a bad taste, but I was very happy with my previous NAD stereo receiver and tape deck (can you say tape deck anymore?).

There are the "usual suspects" for replacement ie Cambridge Audio, Rotel, Denon, Onkyo etc & others I am not familiar with.

If I do end up looking for a replacement, be sure I will be seeking advice from this forum before I buy a replacement.

Thanks.

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All amps will have some hiss at high levels if you stick your ears near the tweeter................usually just barely audible.

[/b]

Hi Andrew. Although this is generally true, there is at least one exception.....TacT 2150 - due to it's "digital" topology. Its silence, even with >100dB efficiency speakers at any gain setting, is uncanny. :)

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Thanks Tony.................I haven't encountered a Tact unit yet.

Some of the other digital units i've listened to did still have a slight hiss.

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Hi tonym, got few questions for you.

You’re obviously happy with your Tact (and just imagine, all those other people said you had none!) and hopefully you will get around to either starting a new thread on it or adding to the deqx thread, but you did mention that Tact had no distributors in Aust. In that case, what made you take the risk and get a set?

Was it some review on the web or whatever - if so it was a good one. Obiwan at least heard the deqx in another system and so wasn’t going into the deal totally blind. From memory he could recoup some of the cost by selling redundant equipment, again lessening the risk. I’d love to get your thinking on the purchase process.

It’s not as if Deqx will loan me a unit to hear in my own system for a week either, then again, unlike say an amplifier which is simply plug and play, a week may not be long enough for me to even get it working! How long did it take you Obiwan?

Wonder how many people would be interested in road testing something like the deqx in their own system? I know I would. Probably be a lot of tyre kickers tho, another reason not to do it.

Tony, do you think the tact is suitable for all systems, or only the more revealing? That of course is leaving aside the cost of the gear, what value system do you need to possess before you even consider a deqx?( or tact for eg). Is it possible that for some it would be a case of ‘why bother’?

That is assuming that you even accept the starting point that processing like this is of benefit, perhaps some amongst us don’t?

Being an amp, I’m making the assumption that unlike the deqx it doesn’t give you the luxury of bi or tri amping the system. I believe that was the point were Obiwans results suddenly became stratospheric (right O.?) Then again, perhaps some don’t agree that digital crossovers are any better than analogue ( I vaguely recall you having some reservations along this line Rick?)

Maybe this should be in another thread, if you can think of a better place for it Drizt then pleas feel free to move it.

Anyway enough for now, lots of love

terry

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Hi tonym, got few questions for you.

You’re obviously happy with your Tact (and just imagine, all those other people said you had none!) and hopefully you will get around to either starting a new thread on it or adding to the deqx thread, but you did mention that Tact had no distributors in Aust. In that case, what made you take the risk and get a set?

Was it some review on the web or whatever - if so it was a good one. Obiwan at least heard the deqx in another system and so wasn’t going into the deal totally blind. From memory he could recoup some of the cost by selling redundant equipment, again lessening the risk. I’d love to get your thinking on the purchase process.

It’s not as if Deqx will loan me a unit to hear in my own system for a week either, then again, unlike say an amplifier which is simply plug and play, a week may not be long enough for me to even get it working! How long did it take you Obiwan?

Wonder how many people would be interested in road testing something like the deqx in their own system? I know I would. Probably be a lot of tyre kickers tho, another reason not to do it.

Tony, do you think the tact is suitable for all systems, or only the more revealing? That of course is leaving aside the cost of the gear, what value system do you need to possess before you even consider a deqx?( or tact for eg). Is it possible that for some it would be a case of ‘why bother’?

That is assuming that you even accept the starting point that processing like this is of benefit, perhaps some amongst us don’t?

Being an amp, I’m making the assumption that unlike the deqx it doesn’t give you the luxury of bi or tri amping the system. I believe that was the point were Obiwans results suddenly became stratospheric (right O.?) Then again, perhaps some don’t agree that digital crossovers are any better than analogue ( I vaguely recall you having some reservations along this line Rick?)

Maybe this should be in another thread, if you can think of a better place for it Drizt then pleas feel free to move it.

Anyway enough for now, lots of love

terry

[/b]

Hi Terry

Yeah, I intend to post some info on the deqx thread when I get time to read it and figure out if that's the right thread to post it on. In particular, I want to post some pics of the screenshots of the measurement, target and correction curves, because I think they give a clearer idea of what it's all about than words. I also have to check on how to post pics, format resolution limits etc.

Sure I like TacT, because I like what it can do. But I have a couple of Klipsch RF-7's with blown compression drivers at present because of a glitch in the operation of my TacT RCS 2.2XP. Judging from the Tactaudio users forum on Yahoo, however, this would appear to be a one-off fault and the unit seems OK now. However I'm only using it on the old Wharfedales until I get the RF-7's fixed. Also, TacT have agreed to send me a new mainboard for the 2.2XP and I'll feel safer when that's installed and up and running.

To explain how I got into TacT, I have to backtrack a bit. In early 2004, I had Sonus Faber Elector Amator II's, which are a reasonably high-end standmount speaker. Previous speakers had included Apogee Centaur Majors, Duntech Crown Princes etc etc. Anyway, on a whim, I bought a pair of Klipsch RF-3's for my (then) teenage son to use when playing rock at obscene levels. After a while, I realised, to my dismay, that there were things the Klipsches did the SF's couldn't and they were things I valued. (vice-versa also). A bit like owning a sophisticated Italian sports car and then finding that some crude old American V8 was supplying more fun and enjoyment.

Anyway, this prompted me to order a pair of RF-7's. Now these caused a real dilemma. I loved the effortlessness and "liveness" of the sound they produced, but hated the harsh, recessed midrange and unrefined treble. So I started thinking laterally and read all the info on the net re TacT. In particular, I noticed that "factory refurbished" RCS 2.0's were available for US$1490.00. Now, even with import duty, freight etc, this only worked out to about AUD$2500.00 (or thereabouts) So, thought it was worth a try, especially as the A to D and D to A boards, microphone etc were all included.

When the unit arrived, I was impressed by the fact that I could find absolutely nothing to indicate factory refurbished. Everything looked, felt and smelled brand new. After a bit of a learning curve, I got it up and running and the transformation in the sound amazed me. I went for a "flat" target curve and the midrange just seemed to fill out - smooth and rich. It was better than I expected by a substantial margin. I guess the improvement was "across the board", but it was the midrange that I appreciated the most as this was what was lacking initially. Generally the greatest benefit with room correction is in the bass area, but I think this was more "speaker correction" than "room correction"

So, after 2 years with the old RCS 2.0 (which I'll probably put on ebay when I get aroud to it), I got "upgraditis" again. The RCS 2.2XP handles 2 main and 2 sub channels and has "dynamic sound correction", which is a bit like superimposing an appropriate loudness curve correction that is internally calculated for each 0.1dB change in gain. I love this feature as it lets me turn down the volume without sapping the life out of the music. As the power amp S2150 was on special for US$1600.00 and had received some pretty good reviews, I decided to get one of these too.

After all, Mr Kerbrat ( see www.aca.gr/pop_jyk.htm ) seems to have a system that would rival any other domestic system in the world and has replaced a rack of amplifiers worth many hundreds of thousands of dollars with 3 S2150's. It's worth taking the trouble of going to that site and having a good look.

BTW, in the US, TacT offer a "try it and return for a refund if you don't like it" service on their stuff.

The 2.2XP preamp has 2 main channel and 2 subwoofer outputs. The S2150 power amp can apply user-selectable crossovers to the outputs. As far as I can work out, you need two 2150's to biamp and three to triamp. I ordered the A to D and D to A converter modules in my 2.2XP for maximum versatility. I run digital output from my old Sony XA5ES CD player into the 2.2 pramp which does all its tricks in the digital domain and passes a digital signal to the 2150 power amp, which I haveheard described as "a DAC with enough output to drive speakers" Of course, the output from the 2.2XP to my powered sub is analogue.

Anyway, my take on this stuff is, surprisingly, that it does its best work with lesser speakers and less than ideal room set-ups. After all, if you had theoretically perfect equipment in an ideal room, what would there be to correct? The old Wharfedales I'm listening to right now are really "punching way above their weight" and this is mainly due to the correction and the quality of the amplification.

I have a lot of my own questions still to answer. Still that's part of the fun of this hobby, isn't it? Eg, I want to find out for myself the merits of the single-ended triodes that people get evangelical about. I also hope to find out what the TacT stuff sounds like with really good speakers eg Avantgarde Duos or Aslan Australs. But the experience with blowing the Klipsh HF units has slowed me down a bit. I have an elderly neighbour with what was sold to him 15 years ago as "the best system in the world" (Infinity IRS speakers - 4 X 6' towers with many woofers/electrostatic panels, a brace of Audio Research/Mark Levinson amps, Goldmund linear tracking tt etc etc) I shudder to think what would've happened if I took the RCS 2.2XP over to his place and the "glitch" destroyed his speakers instead of mine! Too ugly to contemplate - cardiac arrests all around, I reckon.

Anyway, sorry to rave on so much. But I'm having a quiet afternoon and no-one is forced to read it. And you did ask.

Regards

Tony

Edit: As Terry said, Drist, please move this post if you reckon it should be elsewhere (WPB maybe? :) )

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Thanks tony, yes I did ask and I'm glad you put the effort into your reply, thanks. what is WPB?

Ouch on blowing a speaker tho, does Tact do anything about that for you? You're right about your neighbour, guess you wouldn't get too many more invites to a BBQ if you blew his up too!

You can probably understand this, I had a VERY brief look at the website, lot more looking to do. Makes me wonder sometimes. Still, certainly seems to be a validation of the Tact doesn't it.

Will have a bit of a study of the Tact range, to try and wrap my head around it.

Thanks for your reply, love it when someone puts a bit of work into it, and you certainly did. Looking forward to the pics.

Lots of love

terry

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I was wondering if anyone can provide any light on this issue for me.

I purchased a NAD T773 receiver earlier this year, which I noticed had slight hiss from all channels.

I rang the audio shop, did what they suggested (verify setup etc), and ended up packing it up and returning for unit service.

The end result was the distributor and the shop say "it's normal, and Rotels do it too."

It drives me insane, that when I listen to music, I can hear slight hiss during quiet passages and between tracks etc.

I am not a happy camper, nor am I convinced, but what can I do?

Can anyone verify "it's normal"?

Thanks

[/b]

This problem is more likely to occur with high sensitivity speakers. What speakers are you using? Is the hiss evident at all volume levels? What about when the volume is turned right down? Why not return to the dealer and listen to another unit in their showroom or try your unit at the dealership (just in case there is some strange RF noise in your local environment)?

If you complained to the delaer and service centre of a hiss problem, then really the only legitimate basis they can have for saying that the unit is OK, is if they measured the receiver's signal to noise ratio or noise spectrum and compared it with the published specification (I'm guessing probably around -90dB(A)). Ask the NAD service centre what numerical result or noise spectrum they measured for the hiss- this will tell you if they actually tested the unit or they did the "she'll be right mate" investigation. In any event if you are not happy- will the dealer refund/replace? Let me know-Good Luck.

Have Fun,

JOEY

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Thanks tony, yes I did ask and I'm glad you put the effort into your reply, thanks. what is WPB?

Ouch on blowing a speaker tho, does Tact do anything about that for you? You're right about your neighbour, guess you wouldn't get too many more invites to a BBQ if you blew his up too!

You can probably understand this, I had a VERY brief look at the website, lot more looking to do. Makes me wonder sometimes. Still, certainly seems to be a validation of the Tact doesn't it.

Will have a bit of a study of the Tact range, to try and wrap my head around it.

Thanks for your reply, love it when someone puts a bit of work into it, and you certainly did. Looking forward to the pics.

Lots of love

terry

[/b]

WPB = waste paper basket (or cyberspace equivalent)

TacT's warranty is industry standard and doesn't cover damage to other eqipment (except in some US states where this is apparently mandatory). I didn't even bother to ask about this in my case. Anyway, it's still possible some extraneous factor played a part. It really was weird and my ears are still ringing! Boz reckons it could have been some strange memory corruption of the measurement file. I'm just glad they're shipping me a new mainboard, which contains all the processing and memory functions, instead of doing the "send it back to us and we'll check it out" bit.

BTW, I'm deliberately being very conservative about my subjective impressions. This is by far the biggest upgrade I have made in 35+ years of being into hifi, but it might not be the same for someone with really good speakers, ideally positioned in a carefully treated room. Having said that, to listen to very cheap and nasty speakers sounding better than many high-end set-ups I've listened to is the sort of experience that turns everything I thought I knew about hifi on its head.

Speaker-blowing glitches aside, I'm genuinely amazed and impressed.

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thanks Tony, certainly sounds like you're impressed.

Think I should have put this (at least) in the deqx thread. Drizt, are you able to slot the relavent bits over to there? If you can great, and please accept my apology on stuffing up in the first place.

Tony thanks for your input. Didn't really expect Tact to do anything about the blown driver, kinda just said it with out really thinking about it.

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Tony,

l would love to see a thread about your pre amp with pics and info on how and what exactly it does. l am looking at upgrading my transformer based passive preamp to the new model as it offers some extra features l desire. At 4k its probably in the ball park of the unit you have so l would be keen to read all about it when you have the time.

Cheers

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Tony,

l would love to see a thread about your pre amp with pics and info on how and what exactly it does. l am looking at upgrading my transformer based passive preamp to the new model as it offers some extra features l desire. At 4k its probably in the ball park of the unit you have so l would be keen to read all about it when you have the time.

Cheers

[/b]

I'll get onto it soon, Mondie. Hopefully tomorrow.

Does anyone know the best format for posting pics....and the recommended resolution?

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Does anyone know the best format for posting pics....and the recommended resolution?

[/b]

JPG compression, about 80% quality. Recommended resolution about 800-1000 pixels.

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I have used both nad and rotel (sold my nad bought a rotel funny enough) i'v never had a problem with noise, the only time i produce any noise from my amplifier is when i have the source unit it on without anything playing, and the amplifier turned up past clipping,

And the signal to noise ratio is extremely low.

there can be a number of factors as to why there might be noise, un-shielded rca cables, unclean power?

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