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Honestly, posting music on a thread is like a sunroof on a submarine.

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20 hours ago, Guzzista said:

Honestly, posting music on a thread is like a sunroof on a submarine.

@Guzzista

Could you please refrain from taking cheap shots, particularly when another member is contributing much to this thread.

Thanks.

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21 hours ago, Guzzista said:

Honestly, posting music on a thread is like a sunroof on a submarine.

I would normally agree as you hear the acoustics of the room' but in this case, when I played the clips thru my Black Knights they did not sound like that.  Indeed I wonder if the poster has inserted the original audio file.  As for lack of bass I could see my 4 12-incher woofers moving at quite moderate levels.  I do not have the original audio to compare but I've checked with an audiophile mate & he says they do sound different but "they are not bad".

Edited by vur

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On 26/11/2019 at 3:55 PM, vur said:

I would normally agree but in this case, as you hear the acoustics of the room but when I played the clips thru my Black Knights they did not sound like that.  Indeed I wonder if the poster has inserted the original audio file.  As for lack of bass I could see my 4 12-incher woofers moving at quite moderate levels.  I do not have the original audio to compare but I've checked with an audiophile mate & he says they do sound different but "they are not bad".

Thanks Vur. I did not use any special equipment, just recorded video with hand held Samsung Galaxy S10+ with in-built mobile phone mic. I have played it back on my phone, iMac desktop, and HiFi system itself. I noticed the exact same thing. I am fortunate, the acoustic of my room is very good, and in person the 'acoustic room hollow sound' heard on mobile/desktop computer is an artifact, since I do not hear the same thing on the main system playback via YouTube with the Duntech Senators. I am streaming with Tidal HiFi on my system. A to B comparisons with my YouTube upload and compared to the same original Tidal playback, clearly the original playback is superior in every way- more detail, more visceral, background black. But, for all the limitations, mobile phone recording, YouTube playback etc, I am really surprised myself at how good it still came out. Much of nuisance, ambience, transience, clarity and musicality of the Senators came through nicely.  A big leap technologically from the very first smart phone I bought in 2009! I will upload more sample later, with different genre of music and move around the the room. Possibly also look at buying a quality external mic too.

Edited by Silver Audiophile

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On 25/11/2019 at 3:24 PM, Silver Audiophile said:

Recorded in 4K with my Samsung S10+ phone a few weeks back. What's really missing is how deep the bass goes. The 4 mid-woofer drivers can be seen working hard.

 

 

Always been a fan of Duntech speakers. My late Dad had a pair of Sovereigns in the nineties and I had the crown princess. What is the track your playing?

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34 minutes ago, poppybob said:

Always been a fan of Duntech speakers. My late Dad had a pair of Sovereigns in the nineties and I had the crown princess. What is the track your playing?

From Tidal

Screenshot_20191126-163120_TIDAL.jpg

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Having recently obtaining a second Ute-load worth of Basalt Lava Honeycomb slabs from a local Hunter Stone and paver shop and CNC machined stainless shoes and cones, I have been experimenting with placement under the Senators external black cross over box. Initially, these cross overs sat on the carpeted floor. Then, I realised the vast improvement once the Solid Steel spiked rack arrived. More space and air in the vocals, detail, background black. Again, big additional gains once the first Basalt slabs arrived. Then, finally, the staineless shoes and cones- the biggest improvement! More prominent bass extension, transience, more holographic sound. The external Senators cross overs, being more and more isolated from the microphony effects of a vibrating speaker cabinet. Got me thinking- I will never ever go back to ever owning a speaker without an external cross over box. I know what I'm missing out on!

 

 

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Edited by Silver Audiophile

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A glowing latest review I have pulled off the Duntech Facebook page, of the new Halcro Eclipse paired up with the Duntech Princess: By Calvin (HK/China/Taiwan Duntech distributor).

 

The new Halcro Eclipse and the new Duntech C5800 Princess matching review.
We spent the whole day listening to the new Halcro Eclipse with direct comparison to my current reference mono amp, of course the speakers are our new Duntech Princess C5800 and It is now midnight. The Halcro Eclipse sound significantly better particularly in soundstage and detail, their musicality is very impressive not unlike the sound from a high-end valve amplifier but with tons of details and layers. The vocal performance is outstanding, delivering the rich feeling of the singer's performance that many valve amplifiers can’t even come near. They don't sound like conventional massive power amplifiers such as my current reference mono amplifiers that always possess some of the hash sonic characters of ordinary solid-state amps. In addition the Halcro Eclipse deliver even stronger and more controllable bass in comparison to my current reference amps that are rated 500W into 8ohms. Overall an extremely impressive performance.

 

The Halcro Eclipse can sound like a 300B under a low sound pressure level, but driving the new DUNTECH C5800 PRINCESS delivers incredible performance that even I have not heard before. The control capability of the Eclipse is exceptional under a high sound volume. An incredible and amazing amplifier"....

 

Further details.. Duntech's Facebook page:

https://www.facebook.com/Duntech-Audio-211463885539640/

 

 

image.png

Edited by Silver Audiophile

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Can any Crown Prince/Princess share some pictures or provide details on placement in their room. I have a 4m x 7m room and have the speakers firing down the length of the room. Initially I had the speakers fairly close to the back wall, can't remember exact distances, but after a few days of listening the bass was carrying on a little too much. I since moved them further into the room and a little further away from the sidewalls. They are currently 1100mm from the back wall and 600mm from the side wall and slightly toed in. This leaves them about 2.3m apart.

 

I am starting to miss the mid-bass thump of my larger JBL speakers so I am considering my options. Would moving the speakers closer together in hopes of increasing mid-bass coupling give me the thump I am after? I understand they won't ever have the mid-bass of my JBL's but maybe I can squeeze a bit more out of them. Long term goal is a set of Sovereigns but I hope I don't lose the magical mid-range the Princess' have.

 

I remember a few, or maybe one at least, members who mentioned having their speakers close to the back wall, almost in the corners and then fully toed in.

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2 hours ago, kelossus said:

Can any Crown Prince/Princess share some pictures or provide details on placement in their room. I have a 4m x 7m room and have the speakers firing down the length of the room. Initially I had the speakers fairly close to the back wall, can't remember exact distances, but after a few days of listening the bass was carrying on a little too much. I since moved them further into the room and a little further away from the sidewalls. They are currently 1100mm from the back wall and 600mm from the side wall and slightly toed in. This leaves them about 2.3m apart.

 

I am starting to miss the mid-bass thump of my larger JBL speakers so I am considering my options. Would moving the speakers closer together in hopes of increasing mid-bass coupling give me the thump I am after? I understand they won't ever have the mid-bass of my JBL's but maybe I can squeeze a bit more out of them. Long term goal is a set of Sovereigns but I hope I don't lose the magical mid-range the Princess' have.

 

I remember a few, or maybe one at least, members who mentioned having their speakers close to the back wall, almost in the corners and then fully toed in.

@kelossus

Chris from earlier in this thread:

 

Expect the Duntechs to be very truthful to the recording. Not overly bright or bass-heavy. Not overly warm or intentionally "musical". Accurate. That is why a lot of recording/mastering studios used them (and still do). 

They have a narrow field of dispersion (to limit directly reflected sound), so you need to set them apart 45-70 degrees, toe them in so they point directly to the listening position with tweeters at ear height, and there will be a small sweet spot in the middle with the best and most accurate sound. The narrow dispersion also limits the soundstage to between the two speakers... although some of them are really big speakers and can work well in big rooms. 

The top of the Duntech range are the Princess/Crown Prince and the huge Sovereign. You need a big room for these, or lots of bass-trap acoustical treatments, as they have heaps of bass energy and will activate the room modes which may give the impression of muddy/sloppy bass - but when you correct these room issues or reposition you will find that the bass is very tight indeed... and very resolving, so a bass drum sounds just like a bass drum, not just a "doof" sound. The big sealed enclosures no doubt help this. 

They do need a high-current amp, especially the top of the range Duntech models, and after testing a few I can recommend the ME amps, but there are quite a few others out there that that will work fine as well. 

IMHO it's very, very hard to beat the sound you can get out of these speakers for the price they go for used now, if you like an accurate/truthful sound. Although you do need to factor in the cost of a powerful amp to get the very best out of them. 

 

NB Not info by me (Ahh- Schnoo Schnoo)

Edited by Ahh- Schnoo Schnoo

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2 hours ago, kelossus said:

Can any Crown Prince/Princess share some pictures or provide details on placement in their room.

Mine are in a 5.7 x 4.4 x 2.7 room and are 84cm  from back wall to front cover and 78 from side wall to middle of drivers. Am limited in how far out they can come as it is a shared space. similarly they cant really come any closer together as there is a projector screen that comes down for movies ( but have had them further out and closer together and that hasnt necessarily been better). The room has a fair amount of treatment and is double brick so not lossy unfortunately.  I currently have them straight down from which I am enjoying the relaxedness and wider sweet spot but have had them at many angles and positions.

 

As you know small changes in position can make quite a bit of difference especially in upper bass. How far back is your listening position? Do you know what the frequency range of the mid bass thump you are looking for is?

 

Have you had a chance to do the crossover upgrades?

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1 hour ago, frednork said:

Mine are in a 5.7 x 4.4 x 2.7 room and are 84cm  from back wall to front cover and 78 from side wall to middle of drivers. Am limited in how far out they can come as it is a shared space. similarly they cant really come any closer together as there is a projector screen that comes down for movies ( but have had them further out and closer together and that hasnt necessarily been better). The room has a fair amount of treatment and is double brick so not lossy unfortunately.  I currently have them straight down from which I am enjoying the relaxedness and wider sweet spot but have had them at many angles and positions.

 

As you know small changes in position can make quite a bit of difference especially in upper bass. How far back is your listening position? Do you know what the frequency range of the mid bass thump you are looking for is?

 

Have you had a chance to do the crossover upgrades?

I have a slanted ceiling which goes from 2.4m to 3.3m. The speakers are at the low end of the room which I believe to be ideal. I have floor to ceiling bass traps on the back wall and 1.8m runs of Vicoustic Wavewoods in the first and second reflection points. Also have four large 1200mm round diffusers but am not sure if I need them or where to put them. The room is standard timber frame with gyprock, there is a fair bit of glass due to multiple windows. But luckily they aren't in any of the reflection points.

 

I sit about 3m away from the speakers but I have free range in the room so that is flexible. I couldn't tell you what frequency but if you listen to Elton John - I've Seen That Movie Too, the kick drum in that is what I am referring to. Regarding mid-bass, I don't think the speakers will match the JBL's nor the Sovereign's but if I can get a bit more that would be good.

 

Sounds like moving the speakers together might do the trick and hopefully not introduce any other problems.

 

I haven't done the crossovers yet, when I do I will just upgrade the hookup wire and do the resistors. The capacitors are pretty large values and if I am going to consider a pair of Sov's later on there is no point in spending too much.

 

 

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I have the marquis and have recently had to reconfigure my listening room as a shared space - what I thought was going to be a big compromise has surprised me - I’ve gone from a 4x6m set up to a near field listening set up - still 3foot out from wall but I’m sitting approx 1.2m from speakers - amazing change - try several configs in your space and see what you like 

Edited by andythiing

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28 minutes ago, kelossus said:

I sit about 3m away from the speakers but I have free range in the room so that is flexible. 

 Ok, if I use REW room simulator with what you have said I get this

 

image.thumb.png.0fff3788a3e44a91694c022c2050ca44.png

 

and this shows the original plus 30 cm forward and back. Might be worth trying more forward

 

image.thumb.png.3594818bc262f0cb46f719e261546656.png

 

and this one shows moving eatch of them 30cm closer to the middle

 

image.thumb.png.e37100daf45485e6f81429848495f9f5.png

 

This is what I get with listening position 3m from front wall, with 30cm in front and behind shown also (not making much diff)

 

image.thumb.png.ec534bb4a393914b8fe0d8cac4bea2cc.png

 

similarly 1.2 from the back wall

 

image.thumb.png.388e6d43d00b4b87529eee6e10a2bb1e.png

 

on the simulation, the further away from those spots the lumpier the bass gets. It may not be spot on but the trends might give you an idea

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@frednork

 

Thanks for the REW plots. I have just moved the speakers 27cm forward and 20cm closer together. I will start with no toe at first.

 

I would like to try them a little closer together but I would have to move my power amp. It weighs 55kg and I can't be stuffed moving it around.

 

Will see it how it goes.

Edited by kelossus

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56 minutes ago, kelossus said:

I will start with no toe at first.

should mention prior to the xover update, I would have found no toe-in  a bit rolled off on top end especially at closer listening positions, after update, no drama.

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@VAF and other experienced Duntechnicians

 

Can you comment on the difference in the mid-range presentation between the Princess and the Sovereign. With the sale of my previous speakers looming I am considering an upgrade from the Princess to the Sov.

 

What I enjoy the most about the Princess is the natural mid-range. It is unlike anything I have heard before and I am hoping that Sovereign's are voiced similarly or maybe even improve on it. My only critique about the Princess is it lacks serious bass slam which makes drums sound a little underwhelming. I imagine the Sov's would have me covered in that respect but if the mid-range isn't up to scratch I would keep the Princess'.

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24 minutes ago, kelossus said:

@VAF and other experienced Duntechnicians

 

Can you comment on the difference in the mid-range presentation between the Princess and the Sovereign. With the sale of my previous speakers looming I am considering an upgrade from the Princess to the Sov.

 

What I enjoy the most about the Princess is the natural mid-range. It is unlike anything I have heard before and I am hoping that Sovereign's are voiced similarly or maybe even improve on it. My only critique about the Princess is it lacks serious bass slam which makes drums sound a little underwhelming. I imagine the Sov's would have me covered in that respect but if the mid-range isn't up to scratch I would keep the Princess'.

Do it!!!! 

You have Possible Sovs lined up or going to wait? 
In all seriousness I am incredibly impressed by @Tubularbells pair. 
There is jus so much music coming out of them it creates a 3D space like I’ve never heard before. 
And I don’t mean loud. Although that they do) It’s like when you first get a huge TV and don’t know where to look. There is info everywhere. 
I’ve had great soundstage and holographic imaging in some of my set ups that I thought was good but nothing like the Sovs.

Anyway, my impressions from brief experience. 

Edited by jakeyb77

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If you are into mid range purity than its possible the princess might out do the Sovs as the scanspeak mids run almost full range and if you disconnect the tweet and woofers most of the signal is still there. Because of this they work pretty hard (I could hear them still working at under 100hz but attenuated)but it means you have only one driver doing a large part of the audio range and that has some benefits.  I believe there are some still operating in studios because of the great mid range accuracy which is hard to beat.

 

With the Sov s there are  more drivers more complexity but for me ultimately a little more refined and controlled than the princess (especially in the nether regions. As far as drum whacks go its going to be hard to match your current JBLs as they are the kings of rock and roll playback and have huge dynamics the duntechs just physically cant match. 

 

Unfortunately most speakers just cant do it all!!

 

 

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3 minutes ago, frednork said:

If you are into mid range purity than its possible the princess might out do the Sovs as the scanspeak mids run almost full range and if you disconnect the tweet and woofers most of the signal is still there. Because of this they work pretty hard (I could hear them still working at under 100hz but attenuated)but it means you have only one driver doing a large part of the audio range and that has some benefits.  I believe there are some still operating in studios because of the great mid range accuracy which is hard to beat.

 

With the Sov s there are  more drivers more complexity but for me ultimately a little more refined and controlled than the princess (especially in the nether regions. As far as drum whacks go its going to be hard to match your current JBLs as they are the kings of rock and roll playback and have huge dynamics the duntechs just physically cant match. 

 

Unfortunately most speakers just cant do it all!!

 

 

Yeah buts it’s not about which one works better at the urinal 😉🤪

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I can live without the dynamics of the JBL's as long as I have that mid-range. A side by side comparison is obviously not going to happen so I will be buying based purely on recommendations.

 

The scanspeak mid definitely has some go. The spider must be quite soft. You can see the cone has a fair bit of travel in it. The mid-range is really what is doing it for me with Princess'.

 

I just can't fight off the urge to have the biggest speakers possible. Must be a guy thing. The Princess will play plenty loud but I do worry really cranking it.

Edited by kelossus

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If you fly down to Melbs I'll take my princesses over to Dougs or (he can bring his over to mine :)) and we can have a direct comparo.

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9 minutes ago, frednork said:

If you fly down to Melbs I'll take my princesses over to Dougs or (he can bring his over to mine :)) and we can have a direct comparo.

I’m away that day 😳

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58 minutes ago, jakeyb77 said:

I’m away that day 😳

We need your back though.

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Surround sound in the bedroom with 4x marquis - very impressive 

22E0DFC4-F166-471C-BF84-29DB8A37EE0E.jpeg

CAE46D0E-3E07-4736-AB7B-21BAE58B8870.jpeg

Edited by andythiing

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