maxspl Posted May 29, 2017 Share Posted May 29, 2017 7 hours ago, SAVI Systems – Simon said: I have a set of the Marquis they are C4000 as the model. I am told that means they are from the late 90's rather than the model from the late 80's, but I'm not really sure. Sent from my SGP611 using Tapatalk Hi Simon....yes yours are from around 1996 . . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sub Sonic Posted May 29, 2017 Share Posted May 29, 2017 RE the Prince and Princess, pretty sure I have some NOS VC/cones for the 13M Scanspeak mid range drivers used in these if anyone ever has the misfortune to damage any. Regards, SS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclemack Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 Always good to know that spares are around. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahh- Schnoo Schnoo Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 On 22 May 2017 at 9:49 PM, ghost4man said: I've heard so many people comment about these speakers so I'd like to ask what is the fuss about them. I have also heard they need a weapon of an amp to drive them. For me they get the balance right between warmth and detail, with punchy bass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desap Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 How do Duntech speakers compare to VAF i93's or i66's ? They seem somewhat similar in design concept and share some of the same attributes. I believe VAF's Simon ? (who I think designed the latest i66) once worked for Duntech - true ?? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicholas9976 Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, Ahh- Schnoo Schnoo said: For me they get the balance right between warmth and detail, with punchy bass Expect the Duntechs to be very truthful to the recording. Not overly bright or bass-heavy. Not overly warm or intentionally "musical". Accurate. That is why a lot of recording/mastering studios used them (and still do). They have a narrow field of dispersion (to limit directly reflected sound), so you need to set them apart 45-70 degrees, toe them in so they point directly to the listening position with tweeters at ear height, and there will be a small sweet spot in the middle with the best and most accurate sound. The narrow dispersion also limits the soundstage to between the two speakers... although some of them are really big speakers and can work well in big rooms. The top of the Duntech range are the Princess/Crown Prince and the huge Sovereign. You need a big room for these, or lots of bass-trap acoustical treatments, as they have heaps of bass energy and will activate the room modes which may give the impression of muddy/sloppy bass - but when you correct these room issues or reposition you will find that the bass is very tight indeed... and very resolving, so a bass drum sounds just like a bass drum, not just a "doof" sound. The big sealed enclosures no doubt help this. They do need a high-current amp, especially the top of the range Duntech models, and after testing a few I can recommend the ME amps, but there are quite a few others out there that that will work fine as well. IMHO it's very, very hard to beat the sound you can get out of these speakers for the price they go for used now, if you like an accurate/truthful sound. Although you do need to factor in the cost of a powerful amp to get the very best out of them. Edited May 31, 2017 by nicholas9976 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicholas9976 Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, desap0 said: How do Duntech speakers compare to VAF i93's or i66's ? They seem somewhat similar in design concept and share some of the same attributes. I believe VAF's Simon ? (who I think designed the latest i66) once worked for Duntech - true ?? Duntech and VAF had a close association, which VAF's founder Philip Vafiadis elaborated on here: Although Mr. Vafiadis said the Dunlavy speakers were an improvement on Duntech and his latest VAF speakers are a further improvement, I have heard other reports elsewhere. What I have read is the Dunlavy models which came later were made to a budget (cheaper drivers i.e. no longer Dynaudio etc). Also I've been in the home of someone who owns the top of the range VAF speakers which are very good, but he uses them for home theatre and doesn't rate them as highly as his 20+ year old Duntech Princess which he uses for music. I haven't heard these speakers playing back-to-back though, so I can't comment personally, just passing on what I have been told. Edited May 31, 2017 by nicholas9976 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaphod Beeblebrox Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 1 hour ago, desap0 said: How do Duntech speakers compare to VAF i93's or i66's ? They seem somewhat similar in design concept and share some of the same attributes. I believe VAF's Simon ? (who I think designed the latest i66) once worked for Duntech - true ?? I've had considerable experience with Sovereigns and very limited experience with the VAF i93. My feelings, based on those experiences are as follows: * The Sovereigns do, indeed, require very serious horsepower to run and control them. Anything less than the very best will disappoint. * The i93 will run beautifully on less than the very best amplification, but, like any good speaker, will ruthlessly expose any flaws in amplification. For that reason, very good amplification should be used. * Although the two speakers will reproduce a very similar frequency range, the Sovereigns are capable of larger scale. That said, for most listeners, the i93 will likely do very nicely indeed. * I have a sense (and it is a sense, because I have not heard the two speakers in the same room) that the i93 is possibly a more accurate reproducer. * I think the i93 is an astonishing achievement, given the likely cost of building Sovereigns in 2017 ($50,000.00+ ?). Yes, I understand Simon was an engineer at Duntech. Just my opinions. YMMV. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wimbo Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 2 hours ago, nicholas9976 said: Duntech and VAF had a close association, which VAF's founder Philip Vafiadis elaborated on here: Although Mr. Vafiadis said the Dunlavy speakers were an improvement on Duntech and his latest VAF speakers are a further improvement, I have heard other reports elsewhere. What I have read is the Dunlavy models which came later were made to a budget (cheaper drivers i.e. no longer Dynaudio etc). Also I've been in the home of someone who owns the top of the range VAF speakers which are very good, but he uses them for home theatre and doesn't rate them as highly as his 20+ year old Duntech Princess which he uses for music. I haven't heard these speakers playing back-to-back though, so I can't comment personally, just passing on what I have been told. The original Duntech Classic series were better then the Dunlavys. Personal experience and wishfulness. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desap Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 2 hours ago, Zaphod Beeblebrox said: I've had considerable experience with Sovereigns and very limited experience with the VAF i93. My feelings, based on those experiences are as follows: * The Sovereigns do, indeed, require very serious horsepower to run and control them. Anything less than the very best will disappoint. * The i93 will run beautifully on less than the very best amplification, but, like any good speaker, will ruthlessly expose any flaws in amplification. For that reason, very good amplification should be used. * Although the two speakers will reproduce a very similar frequency range, the Sovereigns are capable of larger scale. That said, for most listeners, the i93 will likely do very nicely indeed. * I have a sense (and it is a sense, because I have not heard the two speakers in the same room) that the i93 is possibly a more accurate reproducer. * I think the i93 is an astonishing achievement, given the likely cost of building Sovereigns in 2017 ($50,000.00+ ?). Yes, I understand Simon was an engineer at Duntech. Just my opinions. YMMV. Thank you for your reply. I have a pair of VAF i93s Mk 1s and am generally very happy with them given that they cost me much less second hand than the full price even though that's not high by some standards. I used to admire (love) the Duntech Soverigns but could never have afforded them - cost or size For what it's worth, I'm bi-amping the i93s with an Emotiva XPA 5 amplifier - ie using 4 of the channels to drive the speakers. This seems to work well. The only reason I'm doing this though is that I'm no longer using the Emotiva for multi channel HT, so thought I'd try the extra outputs to bi-amp the VAFs following advice from Simon. Thanks again. Des Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joz Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 20 hours ago, desap0 said: How do Duntech speakers compare to VAF i93's or i66's ? They seem somewhat similar in design concept and share some of the same attributes. I believe VAF's Simon ? (who I think designed the latest i66) once worked for Duntech - true ?? Well I haven't heard the big Sovs but I have now heard both the Crown Princess and the I-93 (previous iteration) Now acoustic memory as you know is not great so this is not a A/B comparo as such. But my first experience with the big Vafs was very good, properly setup the had some amazing pinpoint imaging and solid bass. But the owner did go through quite a few amps to try to tame the top end which was quite brittle/sibilant on some tracks. The I-93s needed some juice from the partnering amp but something that was a little softer in it's presentation, with the right amp it was exceptional though the sweet spot was extremely narrow. From memory they weren't blessed with great drivers. I think the newer models have sorted this? Then the Duntechs which IMO were endowed with much better than average components, together with excellent engineering would show up the Vafs. They are better balanced and even with lesser amps would shine without exhibiting any of the drivers shortfalls if any. They just do too many things right and they don't draw any attention to their shortfalls. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sub Sonic Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 32 minutes ago, joz said: Well I haven't heard the big Sovs but I have now heard both the Crown Princess and the I-93 (previous iteration) Now acoustic memory as you know is not great so this is not a A/B comparo as such. But my first experience with the big Vafs was very good, properly setup the had some amazing pinpoint imaging and solid bass. But the owner did go through quite a few amps to try to tame the top end which was quite brittle/sibilant on some tracks. The I-93s needed some juice from the partnering amp but something that was a little softer in it's presentation, with the right amp it was exceptional though the sweet spot was extremely narrow. From memory they weren't blessed with great drivers. I think the newer models have sorted this? The earlier VAFs used the same tweeters as some of the Duntech models, the Seas Excel T25 CF001, which is a very good tweeter. I think it was the application in the earlier model I66/I93 that left a little to be desired, not the tweeter as such. Either that or the midrange crossover needed attention. Whatever it was, the issues were sorted with the newer MkII. Cheers, SS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxspl Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 (edited) I bought a second hand pair of VAF I93 from simply hifi for $3.5k some years ago , as there was some talk of them being a Duntech beater. I found them to be hard and edgy sounding in the midrange and unpleasant to listen to. Seemed like the mids were goosed up 3 or 4db too. Vaf were kind enough to make up some attenuators to tame the mids but not much of an improvement. Also in a largish 7.6 x 5m room positioned around 700mm from the wall and driven by my Plinius SA250MK4 250wpc amp with 80amps of current they were overblown in the bass and seriously lacking in definition compared to my Crown prince. Tried many positions with the vaf but low end was always lacking detail and overdone compared to the sealed box duntechs. I no longer have either speaker so have no reason to spruik one over the other but IMO the Duntechs were far superior. All comments refer to MK 1 Vaf. Edited June 6, 2017 by MarkT 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclemack Posted June 24, 2017 Share Posted June 24, 2017 Well. The new Kiat built crossovers for the Crown Prince are done. Should have them with me in a couple of weeks. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jventer Posted June 24, 2017 Share Posted June 24, 2017 On 5/31/2017 at 1:38 PM, Desap said: How do Duntech speakers compare to VAF i93's or i66's ? They seem somewhat similar in design concept and share some of the same attributes. I believe VAF's Simon ? (who I think designed the latest i66) once worked for Duntech - true ?? Yes, true. Simon is at VAF and he did work at Duntech. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wimbo Posted June 24, 2017 Share Posted June 24, 2017 10 minutes ago, unclemack said: Well. The new Kiat built crossovers for the Crown Prince are done. Should have them with me in a couple of weeks. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Keep us posted Mack. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclemack Posted June 24, 2017 Share Posted June 24, 2017 Just now, Wimbo said: Keep us posted Mack. I certainly will... not sure if I'm up to the challenge of soldering them back in though.... Cheers M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tubularbells Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 They look awesome, very impressive ...And that drawer runner idea they used to use, every time I see it i cannot help but think that idea was pure genius. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evil c Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 They look awesome, very impressive ...And that drawer runner idea they used to use, every time I see it i cannot help but think that idea was pure genius. Yes yes that's all well and good - but can you solder tidily TB ? [emoji13] Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclemack Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 Yes yes that's all well and good - but can you solder tidily TB ? [emoji13] Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk I hope someone can!Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evil c Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 I hope someone can!Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk You need to entice us to make the long arduous journey worthwhile! [emoji2] I could supervise or offer encouragement! "Call that a neat job - do it again ! " [emoji53] Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclemack Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 You need to entice us to make the long arduous journey worthwhile! [emoji2] I could supervise or offer encouragement! "Call that a neat job - do it again ! " [emoji53] Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk Ha ha. Shitstirrer. Yes. We'll make plans for a gtg. I've got room for three or four. Maybe 6 if they bring bedding. Outside of that it's local accommodations. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frednork Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 39 minutes ago, evil c said: Yes yes that's all well and good - but can you solder tidily TB ? Probably best I dont volunteer then 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evil c Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 Probably best I dont volunteer then But his speakers are working ok ! [emoji6] Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evil c Posted June 25, 2017 Share Posted June 25, 2017 But his speakers are working ok !Soldering iron was unsuited too right? [emoji6] Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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