SMS 200 Help Required

[Guest gnnett]

Hi There

 

As a digital Newbie I am stumbling along trying to get an SMS200 up and running.

 

Success to date has been limited to plugging iPod into computer (m7 HP Spectre X2) and playing songs using Roon. No idea how good or bad it is at the moment as all too stressful thinking I need to spend $140 a year just to play my ipod through the stereo!

Don't want Roon until I understand what I can get out of this and it will take me months to get there.

Trying now to use USB storage device with music files plugged directly into SMS200. Can see this library and play in Squeezelite, but no sound comes out of the stereo.

Cannot see, or access this library from Roon, so cannot establish if problem is plugging into the back of the SMS200 (seems unlikely) or some simple setup of Squeezelite that is stopping the sound coming out.

Any blindingly obvious advice (other than go back to the record player coz your too old) greatfully accepted.

 

Regards

 

Grantn

 

PS: Hmm and now after 4 days Roon doesn't work, cannot see the ipod anymore and I cannot find a button that searches for storage devices anymore and only thing that it finds is a Samsung device that I don't have! Ouch maybe the record player is the answer.

Edited May 4, 2017 by gnnett

[Bunno77]

You are probably better off getting in touch with the retailer or May at sotm who can assist by dialing into your system. There is a lot more info over at Computer Audiophile for this too,

[Guest gnnett]

Hi Dan

 

Yes you are right, but the jargon rich info over there is no place for a Newbie. I couldn't even get this topic in the right place here.

 

I found iTunes and all its tentacles was what killed Roon and the ipod, so with that deleted Roon is working again.

 

I will give all the bits and pieces to a Millennial at work to play with for a week or so while I am in Fiji and let them educate me in language I can understand when I get back. Might even get them interested in something better than their ipod! :-)

 

Cheers

 

Gn  

[Krispy Audio]

Hi Grant, I just set up an sMS-200 a few minutes ago, got Roon running nicely on it. With SqueezeLite have you gone into the settings section and selected your dac for the audio device? For some reason the default is unticked even if there is only one option. Roon is a little more complicated but again if the dac is selected then you should be getting some sound. 

 

Let us know how you go when you're back. 

[Guest gnnett]

Hi Cameron

 

Roon back up and running with usb thumb drive and ipod nano as libraries (not even sure if that is the right term :-) and surprisingly good considering the "DAC" I am using (too embarrassed to admit what it is until I replace it in 5 days). So despite my incompetence it works fine, I am just not ready to commit to Roon in the next 9 days.

 

Do you know if the 14 day trial simply terminates, or do they use your credit card details to charge you unless you notify them in writing not to?

 

Cheers

 

Gn

[Bunno77]

9 minutes ago, gnnett said:

Hi Cameron

 

Roon back up and running with usb thumb drive and ipod nano as libraries (not even sure if that is the right term :-) and surprisingly good considering the "DAC" I am using (too embarrassed to admit what it is until I replace it in 5 days). So despite my incompetence it works fine, I am just not ready to commit to Roon in the next 9 days.

 

Do you know if the 14 day trial simply terminates, or do they use your credit card details to charge you unless you notify them in writing not to?

 

Cheers

 

Gn

You need to go into your Roon account via their web page and you can cancel your trial there.

[Guest scumbag]

On 04/05/2017 at 10:24 PM, Krispy Audio said:

Hi Grant, I just set up an sMS-200 a few minutes ago, got Roon running nicely on it. With SqueezeLite have you gone into the settings section and selected your dac for the audio device? For some reason the default is unticked even if there is only one option. Roon is a little more complicated but again if the dac is selected then you should be getting some sound. 

 

Let us know how you go when you're back. 

I have been using my SMS200 pretty much exclusively with the Squeezebox server option. Yes, you do need to pick your DAC when you first start it up but it should remember your choice from then on. Unless you change to another DAC of course. 
A brilliant sounding little device especially with a good clean power supply.

[Guest gnnett]

Hi Mark

 

Just had another go and am struggling to figure out which window I am supposed to be "picking my DAC". As I am not the original owner I am wondering if there needs to be a global delete exercise to return to factory settings. I am currently using the headphone output from a Trends UD10 that I think is the "Burr Brown from Ti USB Audio DAC" on this unit that is primarily used as a USB to Coax converter.

When I am in the Eunhasu screen - squeezelite config it has identified this DAC and the button is filled in and clicking the button does not turn if off and on, it simply remains the only option and I cannot find anything that would let me select, or deselect it, or " Select Audio device and set squeezelite config. Empty is default value."

So not sure what I am doing wrong and do hope to be able to plug a SSD into the back so I don't have to have go the Roon, Tidal etc route as that seems expensive. :-)

 

Cheers

Grantn

[Guest scumbag]

10 minutes ago, gnnett said:

Hi Mark

 

Just had another go and am struggling to figure out which window I am supposed to be "picking my DAC". As I am not the original owner I am wondering if there needs to be a global delete exercise to return to factory settings. I am currently using the headphone output from a Trends UD10 that I think is the "Burr Brown from Ti USB Audio DAC" on this unit that is primarily used as a USB to Coax converter.

When I am in the Eunhasu screen - squeezelite config it has identified this DAC and the button is filled in and clicking the button does not turn if off and on, it simply remains the only option and I cannot find anything that would let me select, or deselect it, or " Select Audio device and set squeezelite config. Empty is default value."

So not sure what I am doing wrong and do hope to be able to plug a SSD into the back so I don't have to have go the Roon, Tidal etc route as that seems expensive. :-)

 

Cheers

Grantn

When you activate the squeezeserver you will see a little cog to the right hand side of the settings icons. Assuming you've got your DAC connected to the output USB port, as opposed to the one that is used to connect an external hard drive, you should see your DAC device listed there to pick. So check the arrangement of the DAC and HDD is relation to the unit's outputs at the back.

In relation to the Squeeze Server, once you've opened it up, you will see a small icon at the bottom right hand side of the interface that will take you to the server settings. Under library you should see your harddrive but if not, you can browse to it. Unfortunately I am not in front of my SMS 200 and I have a crap memory so I can't tell you path off-hand to the library. I think it's a linux thing but the path will be something like XXX/music or something like that. It might take a bit of farting around to find it if the path to the HDD is not showing by default so once you find it, do a screencap using the windows snipping tool  

And I have asked several times how I can reset my unit, directly to the SOTM guys and there is (they tell me) no way to do a master reset which I find somewhat confusing. But that's what they tell me and I don't have the skills or motivation to figure out of how to do it myself (warranty and all that).

Have fun. It is a great little machine.

[Guest gnnett]

Thanks again Mark and despite the teething/setup glitches, must say that I am shocked at the SQ a doggy DAC and Roon and usb thumb drive in the computer. I have a new DAC on its way and will get serious about sorting this in 2 weeks when I am back from Fiji.

 

Cheers

 

Grantn 

[Guest scumbag]

16 minutes ago, gnnett said:

Thanks again Mark and despite the teething/setup glitches, must say that I am shocked at the SQ a doggy DAC and Roon and usb thumb drive in the computer. I have a new DAC on its way and will get serious about sorting this in 2 weeks when I am back from Fiji.

 

Cheers

 

Grantn 

Ok. I'll take the bait. Which dac? 

I'm using mine into a devaliet and on occasion into a level 2 pdx dac. Is good. Is very good. With all the noise about the microrendu the sms200 has been somewhat ignored. It comes in quite a bit cheaper that the microrendu too. 

Edited May 7, 2017 by scumbag

[Guest gnnett]

Soekris portable R2R 1101. My 1541 based tube DAC needs a new 6DJ8, so will enjoy comparing old and new on the same theme.

Now powering the 1101. Will use sMS-200 to power it initially and then try adding a REGEN.

Not making my first play with computer based digital audio any easier!

 

Cheers

 

Gn

[Bilbo]

Hi Grant

Have a look at this thread as it has plenty of info about the SMS-200.

 

 

[HdB]

Hi Bill,

It's been suggested to me that this SOtM SMS-200 device would be a significant improvement to my proposed purchase of a new Mac mini and install either the Roon or Audirvana programs to drive my Ayre qb-9 dsd dac - the Mac in question has big SSD and retails new about A$1100.

 

I noticed this thread and wondered if this device will accept the Audirvana program or if it's own system offers better results

I've read some of the available info but as a digital novice, much of it passes me by - what I did gather here is that the SMS-200's external HDD, not a SSD, also requires a separate good power supply and linear preferred

 

I listen to a wide mixture of music and mostly redbook, but starting to get the higher 24 bit releases and will maybe try Tidal

[Bilbo]

@jrhill

As far as sound quality is concerned I would not recommend purchasing a mini Mac at this stage.  The SOtM SMS-200 certainly is a big step up from any PC/Laptop setup I have used or heard. To better it, you would need to be pretty savvy about computer audio and have the level of knowledge of someone like @Chanh and friends and spend big bucks on a dedicated server and power supplies.  It's an expensive and complicated path to take where I certainly fear to tread.

 

If you read the thread suggested above, it will give you an idea of of the setup options I and others have used with the SMS-200.

Then it's worth looking through this thread on Computer Audiophile as it has a wealth of info about the SMS-200 - https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/27617-sotm-sms-200-unveiled-at-munich-hi-end/

 

You don't actually need to run Audirvana at all to get the SMS-200 to dance beautifully with your terrific Ayre DAC.  All you need is a HDD with it's own powered USB dock (which will hold your music files), that you plug into the SMS-200. The SMS-200 is connected via it's dedicated USB port to your DAC.  The only other thing required is an iPad (I use an iPad mini) with the app "Soundirok" loaded to play your library music files through the SMS-200 and DAC.  It does this via your home wifi network.  The SMS-200 connects to the network by ethernet cable into your wifi router.  You can still control the SMS-200 using a PC loaded with Audirvana, JRiver or Roon etc but it is not required.

Eunhasu is the software that runs through your web browser (on any PC or iPad in the house) and manages the SMS-200 setup.  You don't actually load any software onto the SMS-200.  It comes with various server interfaces such as MPD/DLNA, Squeezelight, Roon, etc.  I use MPD with Soundirok and it works very well.  This thread will tell you all about Soundirok - https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/30099-soundirok-ios-app/#comment-606066

 

Now here's the best bit.  SOtM are about to release an upgraded version of the SMS-200 with super duper clocks that apparently sounds amazing.  The only problem is the clocks in the new model cost a bomb so the expected price will be approaching $2,000 here in Australia.  That means that there will be a few second hand SMS-200's on the market very shortly as cashed up Audiophiles upgrade.  So my advice is read up as much as you can in the threads above.  Get a quality HDD and USB dock and start building your music library.  Within a month or so you will be able to pickup a secondhand SMS-200 at a discount and be well on the way to a very high quality computer audio system.  Trimmings like linear power supplies and USB cables (such as Curious cables) can be added (with the savings from not purchasing a mini mac and a new SMS-200) after you come to grips with it all.

 

Hope that helps and enjoy the journey.

 

Edited May 8, 2017 by Bilbo
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[HdB]

Well how about that! 

 

Your very clear words have got me starting again in this 'ere digital server world - makes sense, even to me! 

  I just poked around some of those threads and recognise the ideas - had to look up usb dock but can follow the gist of the rest - a much simpler setup than grant's (gnnett) and as you've indicated, can follow along in your footsteps  - more optimistic about it all now

 

I hope that the quality of the music files that I already have on thejRiver / Toshiba laptop are good enough quality to use with the new, or 2nd hand as you mentioned, SMS-200 -  or do I have to redo these again? 

 

 I have an AudioQuest Diamond usb cable (0.8 metre) and the MIT usb cable (1 metre) arriving with the dac (both from S'pore) so can use 1 to the dac and other to the HDD, yes?

I'll read about your power supply adventure and saw that yellow battery in the pictures of your Maggies - where have you fitted the 'floating base' in that solid structure?

 

Strangely, it didn't twigg until I'd sent the message that we've been nattering about the 'leanfusers' in the other thread - duuh!

[Bilbo]

Your music files should be fine and hopefully in WAV format at 16bit 44.1K at least. You can just copy them onto the HDD.

Given you will be starting fresh with the HDD I suggest you create a folder for each artist and a sub folder for each album.

This file structure is almost standard for most audio rippers (the software that reads the files from your CD and writes them to your HDD).

I use dBPoweramp which I think is still free. Foobar is also very popular as a ripper.

 

The USB cables you are getting will be fine for the purpose. Later you can swap them around and see which combo sounds the best. The one going from the SMS-200 to the DAC is the most important.

Not quite sure what you mean by the "floating base" though - any clues?

[HdB]

My jRiver listing says mostly something called "ape" and others in 'flac' - I did get some downloads in 24/96 - there's one I remember of C C Coletti used as a demo from HD Tracks that's supposed to be 24/192 and the list says 'track no 1 is in flac but all the rest in aif - a bit of gobble-de-**** to me!

 

I'll get a new 1TB Hdd (any recommendations of type/brand/etc) and start copying the files into that with new folders for each artist - I have got used to the jRiver way, but not so easy to manage - maybe I should just start ripping again, fresh?

 

Ah, Floating base - it's from the thread called Amp-isolation platform - a guy called 'frankn' posted the article about Barry Diament's isolation platform (April 26) and it describes the bicycle inner tube, wooden/slate slab, marble/eggholder flexible support under the equipment - it's an old idea and I'd forgotten using it myself - my cd player sits on a poly plastic shelf suspended on elastic straps and made a huge difference - I've since used Bob Prangnell's 'footer' (madscientistaudio.com) as I acted as beta tester for them and they're here - I play around with changing the positions under components which is really all about just altering the component chassis resonances - I didn't get much good results from the expensive Stillpoints' apart from nearly having a stilled heart beat! - crazy prices. 

 

Interestingly, awhile ago, I was at Mike Lenehan's place in Southport one weekend GTG with Joe Rasmussen and a few guys, and he was playing with springs under his amps at that time but they didn't do much at all - I think he's since added a heavy mass between the springs and the component (like those astronomically priced Townsend Pods) and they seem to be work quite well

 

I have a few sheets of leaded vinyl left over from years ago - I find this useful when adding a layer on the bottom of cases/chassis - seems to enhance performance but again, this might be more of that altering resonances thing - it seems to work so I don't argue about it anymore but it's one of those things that seem to inflame tempers - a bit like interconnects and things

[Bilbo]

I know it can be confusing but as you investigate further these acronyms will become second nature.  Ape and flac are file formats as is air or mp3 which pack digital music data in a particular way.  The easiest one is .wav format because it is recognised by virtually every computer system.  I recommend you stick with WAV for simplicity. You can convert the file format from say flac to wav using the audio rippers I referred to previously. I would also recommend you get a 2Tb drive as once you start storing 24/192 files you will chew up disc space faster than you think.

 

In the Computer Audiophile thread I referred you to I detail a test I did with some friends where we compared different HDD's.  Being sceptics we were all surprised that they do sound different and one in particular stood out as the best. The Western Digital "Purple" drive trumped them all.  I use a 3Tb model WD30PURX to ensure I don't run out of storage space given I now rip SACD disks into a format called dsf which takes an enormous amount of space.

 

I still use JRiver on my PC to manage the file system and metadata on my HDD  because it has a good interface. I use two of the aforementioned drives so that I always have a backup. One is in the dock attached to the SOtM the other in a dock attached to my PC. This way I can add files to the PC attached HDD and edit the metadata if necessary using JRiver, then every couple of weeks I clone this HDD to the one attached to the SOtM as a backup.  I know this may seem extreme but when you have 2,000 albums stored on the disc that took more than a year to rip you don't want to have to repeat the process.  So backup, backup, backup or one day the drive will fail and you'll be stuffed!!!

 

Ahh - footers and cables - now there's a nightmare of conflict and it's my bedtime so we'll have to defer that endless discussion for another day.  Suffice it to say I use very special cables that are quite Curious.  The footers that I use were developed with a friend and strangely turned up a year or so later with a mob calling them "Stillpoints". Go figure!

[HdB]

Okay, I got most of that but will redo and re-digest about loading the 3TB HDDs - read thru your thread and have tough idea - then thru the guys doing the 'super version' and ended up chasing derails about power supplies that ended up at the Geiseler pages - I'm not too bad about building pretty good supplies except I usually way over spec them - It seems there's a 12v supply for the SMS-200 and another separate one for the HDDs - haven't yet got clear on the behaviour/requirements of 'the Dock' but getting there - it's slowly coming together - must easier to understand than going the way of Rasberry Pi or Mac mini

 

I remembered you mentioned building one of those base isolation 'things' with the ball bearings/marbles + bicycle tube units - how did it turn out, especially in comparison to your original 'Stillpoints'   

 

Those guys in WA have gone a bit nuts on power supplies - dunno where those $17  'naked vishay' resistors fit in the circuits - I'm thinking of building a twin 12 volt version (sms-200 and the 'dock') with all the usual over the top ac input filtering 'stuff', then using a lt1086 regulator and finishing it off with a simple C multiplier - probably have enough 50va transformers here for 2 separate ones and boxes of fancy capacitors - how come those Geiseler units cost $300?

 

Onto those ''Docks' now ... 

[HdB]

Jeez, I should have checked the spelling before send -  duhh!

 

Okay, I got most of that but will re-read and re-digest about loading the 3TB HDDs - I read thru your thread and now have a rough idea - then read about the WA guys doing the 'super version' and ended up chasing details about power supplies that ended up at the Geiseler pages -

I'm not too bad about building pretty good supplies except I usually way over spec them - It seems there's a 12v supply for the SMS-200 and another separate one for the HDDs - haven't yet got clear on the behaviour/requirements of 'the Dock' but getting there - it's slowly coming together - you make it much easier to understand than going the way of Rasberry Pi or Mac mini

 

I remembered you mentioned building one of those base isolation 'things' with the ball bearings/marbles + bicycle tube units - how did it turn out, especially in comparison to your original 'Stillpoints'   

 

Those guys in WA have gone a bit nuts on power supplies - dunno where those $17  'naked vishay' resistors fit in the circuits - I'm thinking of building a twin 12 volt version (1 for the sms-200 and another for the 'dock') with all the usual over the top ac input filtering 'stuff', then using a lt1086 regulator and finishing it off with a simple C multiplier - probably have 2 of the 50 or 80va transformers here and boxes of fancy capacitors -

 

How come those Geiseler units cost $300?

 

I see the Barstards stole your design - and then set a silly price - Jeez, not nice!

[Jventer]

15 hours ago, Bilbo said:

 The footers that I use were developed with a friend and strangely turned up a year or so later with a mob calling them "Stillpoints". Go figure!

Tell us more please.

 

[Jventer]

@Bilbo and @jrhill

Interesting things in your posts, thanks for posting.

 

A few comments:

• I have no idea about the technicalities, but have firsthand experience about the differences proper power supplies make. I believe they are very important.
• I actually follow  Computer Audiophile and am aware of the posts there. Fascinating what you and other guys are up to.
• There is an interesting topic going on US Audiomart now as well - 101 pages in a few weeks.
• Clay builds various power supplies - as does others, e.g Teradac, SBooster, Uptone guys - they are all trying to make a living - so will be more expensive than the parts.
• Computeraudio is fast evolving, I don't think we'll see the end of it soon.

One thing I would like to highlight is the fact that @Bilbo is maintaining the metadata of his files with JRiver which is separate to the disk where he copies his WAV files for playback.  WAV is not well known for its tagging and metadata qualities. File format is another issue that is widely debated, my approach is to have it in a format where you have all the metadata, tagging etc and then play in whatever format sound the best for you on your system.

[HdB]

Talking about the costing of this thing - chasing up this Dock 'thing' and the 3TB HDDs - a rude shock!

 

Power Supplies - a better understanding about the costs now - the Geiseler is about 300, the Uptone well over 400, the SOtM BOTW is E300, SBooster is about the same - no doubt there's more expensive ones too - wonder where the performance/cost point is - maybe they've all different properties

 

Following Bill's guidelines, the current cost of the SMS-200 is A$650, the Astone Doc is about A$65, each WD-30PURX 3RB HDD is about A$162, assuming just the one Geiseler P/S at A$300, adds up to A$1239, plus the cable from server to Dock that'll be anywhere North of A$400 = running total about A$1700, a significant expenditure.

 

For the expected performance, we can take a bit of trouble selecting a surface/method to mount these units on - one of those expensive special stands, a slab of granite, soft feet, etc

 

It's funny that you mention the storage on the jRiver - I also use jRiver (old V21) but very few stored as WAV, mostly FLAC, or other - I'm guessing that I can't convert them into WAV, so this probably means I'll have to burn them again - does it make much of a difference on playback?

[Guest gnnett]

Hi guys

Great information all of this and a huge thank you to @Bilbo as have just loaded Soundirok on my work phone and listening to the small sample of files on the USB thumb drive plugged into the back of the sMS-200.

Sound quality, will wait till the new DAC arrives and I sort a decent library.

But well underway now with no need for the computer, once I have had a crack at operating Eunhasu from the iPhone.

Cheers

Grant