Citroen Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 Hi @t_mike, can you post a pic of what you mean, as I'm a bit lost by your description? Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juzbear Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 I have found that the record migration issue in my case was when the records touched the right end of the bath (with the motor side to the back). Friction fit alone did not work for me, so I stuck two small silicon buttons under the left end of the steel frame to contact the top of the bath more forcefully. Record migration is no longer an issue for me, assuming I run the motor clockwise (which seems to be its least favourite direction!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxpina Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 @Owen Y I sent you mp ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxpina Posted May 14, 2019 Share Posted May 14, 2019 On 25/04/2017 at 10:50 AM, andyr said: Hi Andrew, Re. vacuum dry vs. air dry ... and the (good) effect of using a 1-micron filter: this long weekend, I finally got my 1 micron filter working (with a 12v DC pump), with my Sonix IV US tank. first, I listened to an LP which had been cleaned using the (previous) aquarium filter ... but not vacuumed dry. then I re-cleaned it with the 1-micron filter in circuit ... then blow-dried it. result - quieter! I then re-washed it in the US tank for a couple of minutes - and then used my NG to vacuum it dry. result - no quieter! So AFAIAC, using the 1-micron filter takes out all the crap which was in suspension in the water - which was previously resting in the bottom of the grooves with the liquid ... so was still there when the liquid dried (unless I vacuumed it out) and which caused the LP to be noisy. Removing this crap in suspension results in a quiet record - so the 1-micron filter is doing a much better job than the aquarium filter. So I no longer need to vacuum dry each side. So my US cleaning setup consists of the following: 10l Sonix IV tank (60Khz) - this is wide enough to take 6x LPs at a time, with 25mm spacers in between each LP. This has a heater and a drain spigot. 5" high filter housing: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01CFOFW4C/ref=od_aui_detailpages00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 this uses these filter cartridges: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00D049XFQ/ref=od_aui_detailpages01?ie=UTF8&psc=1 and driven by this pump (for which you need to buy a 12v plug-pack from Jaycar or similar): https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01DWCPFUC/ref=od_aui_detailpages01?ie=UTF8&psc=1 Unfortunately, I sourced these from Amazon - which I hate with a passion, as they don't offer any way of getting in touch with them to ask questions - but I know you can search eBay for the same pump. Plus the following items from www.ultrasonic records.com: 2 spindles with spacers (to take 6 LPs) and a gear wheel. One spacer for the LPs in the US tank, the 2nd for LPs which are being blow-dried. a frame with a slow-rotation motor, to hold the spindle at just the right height above the US tank. a "Blower Cube" - a box with a powerful fan (and a lid) to blow-dry the LPs. Unfortunately, this is not 100% effective, as supplied - I had to fit a slow-rev motor to turn the LPs in the airstream ... and I think it would be good to rig up some ceramic resistors in the base of the Cube, to provide a warming effect on the airstream. So it's not a budget setup - but I believe it cleans just as well - if not better than - the commercial "all-in-one" units and I get to clean 6 LPs at a time. And my liquid mixture is: 7.8l of distilled water / 400ml of 99% IPA / 8ml of Ilfotrol. Andy @andyrI wanted to ask you if the pump you used is self-priming and if it works even not immersed in water, because from the rules on amazon it seems that it only works submerged. Thank you 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyr Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 21 hours ago, maxpina said: @andyrI wanted to ask you if the pump you used is self-priming and if it works even not immersed in water, because from the rules on amazon it seems that it only works submerged. Thank you No problem, Max. Not sure what 'self priming' means - all I know is: the pump sits on the tiled (spare) bathroom floor - not immersed in water. and it pumps the fluid just fine. What I have found since I made that post, though, is: having a flow of water into the us tank is not a good idea whilst the tank is switched on (it reduces the effect of the us cleaning action). So better to run the filter after a cleaning cycle, to remove all the detritus knocked out of the grooves, into solution. the pump I bought does not have a high duty cycle - so I need to run it for, say, 10 mins filtering and then switch it off during the 10 mins us cleaning. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxpina Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 3 minutes ago, andyr said: Nessun problema, Max. Non sono sicuro di cosa significa "autoadescante": tutto quello che so è: la pompa si trova sul pavimento del bagno piastrellato (di riserva) - non immerso nell'acqua. e pompa il fluido alla perfezione. Quello che ho trovato da quando ho fatto quel post, però, è: avere un flusso d'acqua nel serbatoio us non è una buona idea mentre il serbatoio è acceso (riduce l'effetto dell'azione di pulizia degli Stati Uniti). Quindi è meglio far funzionare il filtro dopo un ciclo di pulizia, per rimuovere tutti i detriti buttati fuori dalle scanalature, in soluzione. la pompa che ho acquistato non ha un ciclo di lavoro elevato - quindi ho bisogno di eseguirlo per, diciamo, filtraggio di 10 minuti e poi spegnerlo durante i 10 minuti di pulizia. Andy So @andyr if I understand correctly you could not do continuous filtration, but stop the ultrasound and filter. At this point it might be interesting to proceed with a further washing after filtering the liquid, thus having a very clean wash of discs in clean water, obtaining a disk that would not have on the surface of the dirty residue and could be left to dry in the air being sure you have removed everything, what do you say? Thanks Max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyr Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 8 minutes ago, maxpina said: So @andyr if I understand correctly you could not do continuous filtration, but stop the ultrasound and filter. Correct - filter first ... then ultrasound (with the clean water). Just a point of translation: I could do this (filter whilst the ultrasound is going) - but I believe this is not a good idea, so I do not do it. 8 minutes ago, maxpina said: At this point it might be interesting to proceed with a further washing after filtering the liquid, thus having a very clean wash of discs in clean water, obtaining a disk that would not have on the surface of the dirty residue and could be left to dry in the air being sure you have removed everything, what do you say? As the filtering happens before the us cleaning - the us cleaning happens with clean water. So, sure, you can then air dry - except it seems to me that during the time it takes to air dry, dust may settle onto the surfaces of the LPs. So I personally blow dry them with a 'Dryer Cube' from David at "ultrasonicrecords.com". Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxpina Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 43 minutes ago, andyr said: As the filtering happens before the us cleaning - the us cleaning happens with clean water. So, sure, you can then air dry - except it seems to me that during the time it takes to air dry, dust may settle onto the surfaces of the LPs. So I personally blow dry them with a 'Dryer Cube' from David at "ultrasonicrecords.com". Andy You're right the dust could settle in the air, even if I will use the Tetenal which is a photographic and antistatic wetting agent (5 ml / l) I had thought of combining them with a fast rotation with a drill, I did some tests and I saw that with 1 minute of rotation it dries very well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyr Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 1 hour ago, maxpina said: You're right the dust could settle in the air, even if I will use the Tetenal which is a photographic and antistatic wetting agent (5 ml / l) I had thought of combining them with a fast rotation with a drill, I did some tests and I saw that with 1 minute of rotation it dries very well Fast rotation with a drill could well be a good idea, Max! Me - I decided to use the 'Dryer Cube' as this enables me to dry 6x LPs simultaneously ... the same no. I can wash at the same time. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxpina Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 59 minutes ago, andyr said: Io - Ho deciso di usare il 'Dryer Cube' in quanto ciò mi permette di asciugare 6x LP contemporaneamente ... lo stesso no. Posso lavare allo stesso tempo. Andy Sorry but what is the "Dryer Cube"? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyr Posted May 15, 2019 Share Posted May 15, 2019 9 hours ago, maxpina said: Sorry but what is the "Dryer Cube"? Look up David's website, Max: www.ultrasonicrecords.com Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxpina Posted May 16, 2019 Share Posted May 16, 2019 10 hours ago, andyr said: Look up David's website, Max: www.ultrasonicrecords.com Andy @andyr but the dryer cube is the ultrasonic cleaning system right? I thought it was a machine to do the drying operation! How do you dry the vinyl after doing the ultrasound operation? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyr Posted May 16, 2019 Share Posted May 16, 2019 2 hours ago, maxpina said: @andyr but the dryer cube is the ultrasonic cleaning system right? I thought it was a machine to do the drying operation! How do you dry the vinyl after doing the ultrasound operation? No Max, the 'Dryer Cube' is a fan-blow drying box - for drying the LPs after they have been cleaned in an us tank. I use David's rod & spacers which allow me to fit 6x LPs together, in my 10l (extra wide) us tank ... then I simply transfer the rod+LPs to the Dryer Cube, for drying. I didn't buy David's us tank because, at that stage, he was only selling a 40kHz tank ... and I wanted a 60kHz tank. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxpina Posted May 16, 2019 Share Posted May 16, 2019 @andyr wow, I didn't think you could have a 60 khz tank, the effect you have at this frequency is less energetic but more precise and the car is also less noisy, I searched on the internet but I didn't find tank at that frequency, I'm all at 40, like the one I bought, is the drying system cold? It could be built with the fans of PC houses ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxpina Posted May 17, 2019 Share Posted May 17, 2019 I'd like to know if anyone has tried with the 1 micron cartridge filtering system, while doing the ultrasonic cleaning, this because you would always have the liquid clean and when you take out the vinyl from the tank it shouldn't have residues on the surface, this it would allow the suction operation to be eliminated but the drying operation to be carried out immediately. On the net I found people who say that doing it while you work decreases the power of cavitation and therefore of cleaning the ultrasound system. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyr Posted May 17, 2019 Share Posted May 17, 2019 1 hour ago, maxpina said: I'd like to know if anyone has tried with the 1 micron cartridge filtering system, while doing the ultrasonic cleaning, this because you would always have the liquid clean and when you take out the vinyl from the tank it shouldn't have residues on the surface, this it would allow the suction operation to be eliminated but the drying operation to be carried out immediately. On the net I found people who say that doing it while you work decreases the power of cavitation and therefore of cleaning the ultrasound system. Thanks That's what I have been doing Max - but then I read the same posts (about it reducing the effectiveness of the us cleaning! ). So now I plan to filter ... then clean ... then filter ... etc. Andy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moh Posted May 19, 2019 Share Posted May 19, 2019 (edited) Another happy owner of Owen's kit here. I cleaned my first batches of LPs today (4 per batch). 0.1% triton solution in distilled water, no heat, 25minute US clean + air dry. I tried rinsing after the clean, but was making too much mess so gave up. After one clean, I have generally experienced only minor improvement on LPs purchased new, but quite a noticeable background noise improvement on 2nd hand LPs. I'm not getting silent background noise, but I wasn't expecting it either. After reading other comments in this thread, I'm considering getting a KAB EV-1 to vacuum dry after cleaning. The US tank is quite noisey, so it looks like cleaning will be restricted to weekends when the rest of the family are out of the house Cheers, Moh. Edited May 19, 2019 by Moh 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgesgiralt Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 (edited) Hello, It has been a few days since I started to read this whole thread. I've finished I searched the MSDS for the Triton X100 and was disappointed to see it is quite dangerous for us humans and for the aquatic life. Someone somewhere here said that Tween 20 is a suitable safe replacement for the Triton X100. Actually, reading the MSDS for Tween 20 it is ! I won't say we can drink it, but it is safe to use unless you put fire on it. In France, I can find Triton X100 @48.95 € per liter and the Tween 20 @ 70.65 € per liter but no Tergitol. So I wonder if one is using the Tween 20 product and at what concentration ? P.S. : For people using photographic products, there are two very big companies selling traditional photogrphic product "cheap". One is USA based and called Freestyle https://www.freestylephoto.biz The other one is called Fotoimpex and is based in Berlin, Germany. https://www.fotoimpex.de/ If you search for wetting agent you'll find that there are more than Kodak and Ilford. (for example the Fotospeed and Tetenal products...) Edited June 9, 2019 by georgesgiralt Typo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen Y Posted June 10, 2019 Author Share Posted June 10, 2019 (edited) Welcome @georgesgiralt - a good point about disposal of Triton X-100 etc. Triton X-100 is a pure surfactant/detergent concentrate & we can use it in 0.1% (1000x) diluted form for record cleaning. Also, unlike common household detergents (washing powder, dish detergent, household cleaners, shampoos/conditioners, etc etc) it has no additives as often found in those products (eg. disinfectant chemicals, 'fragrances' additives, water softeners, sudsing agents, chlorine, ammonia , bleaches, etc etc). Although better in that regard than those sorts of common products, this doesn't mean that detergents like Triton are totally 'safe' for humans & the environment. So, you can ultrasonically clean without any surfactant / detergent , which works pretty well with most (except real dirty) records. For the latter you may want to pre-wash / soak with a (careully selected, read the label) enzyme cleaner - as dirt on such records is commonly oils, food, etc). Thanks for the info too, about the Tween product - if you can find a good source, do let us now. Please post a pic or two of your cleaning setup when your 'kit' arrives in France! (I spent a nice week down in Dordogne last month ) Cheers, Owen Dark Lantern blog - http://darklanternforowen.wordpress.com/ Edited June 10, 2019 by Owen Y Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxpina Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 2 hours ago, Owen Y said: Welcome @georgesgiralt - a good point about disposal of Triton X-100 etc. Triton X-100 is a pure surfactant/detergent concentrate & we can use it in 0.1% (1000x) diluted form for record cleaning. Also, unlike common household detergents (washing powder, dish detergent, household cleaners, shampoos/conditioners, etc etc) it has no additives as often found in those products (eg. disinfectant chemicals, 'fragrances' additives, water softeners, sudsing agents, chlorine, ammonia , bleaches, etc etc). Although better in that regard than those sorts of common products, this doesn't mean that detergents like Triton are totally 'safe' for humans & the environment. So, you can ultrasonically clean without any surfactant / detergent , which works pretty well with most (except real dirty) records. For the latter you may want to pre-wash / soak with a (careully selected, read the label) enzyme cleaner - as dirt on such records is commonly oils, food, etc). Thanks for the info too, about the Tween product - if you can find a good source, do let us now. Please post a pic or two of your cleaning setup when your 'kit' arrives in France! (I spent a nice week down in Dordogne last month ) Cheers, Owen Dark Lantern blog - http://darklanternforowen.wordpress.com/ I use this I bought here, and a great product and it is also antistatic, for the subject of toxicity I wouldn't have too many problems, also because they are TENSIOACTIVE, main components of the detergents we have at home (I am a chemist), are you sick when you shower with hot water? Good wash to all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxpina Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 (edited) the only component that deserves attention and isothiazolone which is an antimicrobial, this component, if you read the label of your dish detergent you will see that it is present, so .... Edited June 10, 2019 by maxpina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgesgiralt Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 Thank you for your reply. Actually, we use Triton X100 from the 100 % concentration bottle and this makes all the difference from the household products containing it . This is what frightens me. As I can't find the correct Tergitol in France I've not read the MSDS but I bet It won't be too different from the one of Triton X100 ... The shop selling Tween and Triton X100 is called "Mon Droguiste" and is aimed at people making their household products. I bet they are not the cheapest but as it may be a one time buy (given the volume used per bath) it is relatively painless... here is the link to the shop with the IPA alcohol shown... I do not know if they ship internationally but as the site is in French only https://www.mon-droguiste.com/alcool-isopropylique-pur,fr,4,ALCISO01044DSN.cfm P.S. : Nobody has a recipe with the Tween 20 ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxpina Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 1 hour ago, georgesgiralt said: Grazie per la risposta. In realtà, usiamo Triton X100 dalla bottiglia di concentrazione al 100% e questo fa la differenza dai prodotti per la casa che lo contengono. Questo è ciò che mi spaventa. Poiché non riesco a trovare il corretto Tergitol in Francia, non ho letto l'MSDS, ma scommetto che non sarà troppo diverso da quello di Triton X100 ... Il negozio che vende Tween e Triton X100 si chiama "Mon Droguiste" e si rivolge alle persone che producono i loro prodotti per la casa. Scommetto che non sono i più economici ma dato che potrebbe essere un acquisto una tantum (dato il volume usato per il bagno) è relativamente indolore ... ecco il link al negozio con l'alcol IPA mostrato ... Non so se spediscono internazionalmente ma come il sito è solo in francese ?"> https://www.mon-droguiste.com/alcool-isopropylique-pur,fr,4,ALCISO01044DSN.cfm PS: nessuno ha una ricetta con Tween 20? The mix recipe should be 800 pp Distilled water 200 pp Isopropyl alcohol 5 ml of wetting agent (infotol, tetenal or others) I got this alcohol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyr Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 58 minutes ago, maxpina said: The mix recipe should be 800 pp Distilled water 200 pp Isopropyl alcohol 5 ml of wetting agent (infotol, tetenal or others) I got this alcohol Max, sorry - I think you are wrong re. the amount of IPA in the liquid in an us tank. My understanding is that whilst 25% IPA is fine for the liquid used in a wet/vac RCM ... you have to use a lower % for the liquid in a us tank. The issue is the flash point of an IPA mix in a us tank. I read that, for safety, IPA should not be more than 5%. Hence I use: 800ml of distilled water 40ml of 95% IPA 5ml of wetting agent. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxpina Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 @andyr From the technical data sheets for the IPA the lower flash point is 2% in volume, while the upper one is 12% so I think you are quiet up to a quantity of 100 ml of IPA in 800 ml of water to avoid problems of flammability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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