Owen Y Posted February 20, 2018 Author Share Posted February 20, 2018 1 hour ago, BATMAQN said: I don’t normally question people on this site but WOW you guys are pretty serious using these chemicals Triton X100 is not necessary to clean records I know you are using small quantities and do what you like but do you really think it’s needed? My US gets filled with half boiled water to help it to get up to the required heat and the rest is cold water, (demineralised if I feel like it at the time I do have the machine to do it) 2 drops of simple detergent and 2 drops of rinse aid that’s it, I’m no expert but the records come out gleaming and sound great. Sorry if I’m getting up anybody’s nose here but I had to say something. No problem, always good to question things, but let me ask.... What is the 'simple detergent' that you are using? Cheers, Owen http://darklanternforowen.wordpress.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BATMAQN Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 Just standard dish washing detergent from Aldi and the rinse aid is standard dishwasher stuff not much expense here but it works just fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ochremoon Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 @BATMAQN We use Triton X-100 or similar because it's non-ionic. Standard dishwashing liquid is anionic, therefore it contributes to static. It also contains fragrances and various other things that are unnecessary and may be detrimental. But hey, if it works for you, then fine. I'll stick with non-ionic surfactants. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BATMAQN Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 Just now, ochremoon said: @BATMAQN We use Triton X-100 or similar because it's non-ionic. Standard dishwashing liquid is anionic, therefore it contributes to static. It also contains fragrances and various other things that are unnecessary and may be detrimental. But hey, if it works for you, then fine. I'll stick with non-ionic surfactants. Yep fair enough @ochremoon not here to change peoples minds just saying what I like to do. Don’t forget I use two drops of the dishwashing liquid in 6 litres of water and the rinse aid would I’m presuming remove the detergent not much chance of static occurring but again I’m no expert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen Y Posted February 20, 2018 Author Share Posted February 20, 2018 2 minutes ago, BATMAQN said: Just standard dish washing detergent from Aldi and the rinse aid is standard dishwasher stuff not much expense here but it works just fine. Ah OK.... The reasons given for Triton X-100 (or some Tergitols) being recommended on some audio forums were: it is pure detergent/surfactant, without additives (dishwashing liquid for example, typically contains, colourants, fragrances, alcohol, pH adjusters, viscosity adjusters, germicides/biocides..... in addition to detergent!). it is non-ionic (& neutral pH) & won't itself introduce electrical charge to the record. Incidentally: - Triton has been used in dishwashing liquids & cleaners too I'm told, we just want to avoid all the other chemical additives. - Rinse Aid is probably unnecessary as detergent/surfactant does the same job as a 'wetting agent' - plus they say that you want to avoid all this nasty stuff - https://www.treehugger.com/cleaning-organizing/what-dishwasher-rinse-aid.html Cheers, Owen http://darklanternforowen.wordpress.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKay Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 Hi, I have been having some ordinary results on old classical records where I haven't been able to get rid of a fair bit of noise. I am now down to one record at a time with Triton and some alcohol with a time of 20 minutes per record and the temp in the high 30s. I think that the motor may be a rotating a bit too fast although Seb @BATMAQNhas the same setup but seems to be getting much better results. How slow does the rotation need to be in order to get the best results? Does it matter if the rotation is a more than one rotation per minute? This is the kit I bought. https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Ultrasonic-Record-Cleaner-Kit-Vinyl-Record-Cleaning/282833389338?hash=item41da2f071a:g:egAAAOSwRr5ZuK81 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BATMAQN Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 20 minutes ago, PKay said: Hi, I have been having some ordinary results on old classical records where I haven't been able to get rid of a fair bit of noise. I am now down to one record at a time with Triton and some alcohol with a time of 20 minutes per record and the temp in the high 30s. I think that the motor may be a rotating a bit too fast although Seb @BATMAQNhas the same setup but seems to be getting much better results. How slow does the rotation need to be in order to get the best results? Does it matter if the rotation is a more than one rotation per minute? This is the kit I bought. https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Ultrasonic-Record-Cleaner-Kit-Vinyl-Record-Cleaning/282833389338?hash=item41da2f071a:g:egAAAOSwRr5ZuK81 Sorry to hear your results aren’t satisfactory Peter I use a cap of alcohol as well in the mix forgot to mention that before, the motor on mine spins quite slowly I have no idea if that helps or not. I guess some records maybe just can’t be improved for whatever reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyr Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 1 hour ago, PKay said: I am now down to one record at a time with Triton and some alcohol with a time of 20 minutes per record and the temp in the high 30s. I think that the motor may be a rotating a bit too fast although Seb @BATMAQNhas the same setup but seems to be getting much better results. How slow does the rotation need to be in order to get the best results? Does it matter if the rotation is a more than one rotation per minute? What do you mean by "some alcohol", Peter? 5% IPA is acceptable for us tanks (above 10% and you risk spontaneous ignition! ) I use 400ml of 99% IPA in 7800ml of distilled water. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKay Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 Andy, About 2% alcohol. That stuff is way too expensive to hit 5% let alone 10. @andyr Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyr Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 1 minute ago, PKay said: Andy, About 2% alcohol. That stuff is way too expensive to hit 5% let alone 10. @andyr Peter Expensive? I think I paid $15 for 5l from Radio Parts - which means each tank costs just over a dollar, for IPA. 7800ml of distilled water costs more than that! Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABG Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 4 minutes ago, PKay said: Andy, About 2% alcohol. That stuff is way too expensive to hit 5% let alone 10. @andyr Peter It tastes too bloody good too Peter... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKay Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 38 minutes ago, andyr said: Expensive? I think I paid $15 for 5l from Radio Parts - which means each tank costs just over a dollar, for IPA. 7800ml of distilled water costs more than that! Andy Note to self - stop shopping at Bunnings ($26 for 500ml - more expensive than some whiskies). Were you getting the 100% purity? In any case I don't have radio parts anywhere near us in Sydney. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKay Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 45 minutes ago, ABG said: It tastes too bloody good too Peter... I agree, that stuff is the same price as a cheap whisky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyr Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 33 minutes ago, PKay said: Note to self - stop shopping at Bunnings ($26 for 500ml - more expensive than some whiskies). Were you getting the 100% purity? AIUI, you cannot get 100% IPA - bcoz it's hygroscopic. When sealed, it's 99% - but I suspect it's now down a couple of percent, due to being opened a couple of times, to pour some out. 33 minutes ago, PKay said: In any case I don't have radio parts anywhere near us in Sydney. Aah, shame. Radio Parts is just one of those things that make Melbourne the world's most livable city! Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leinster Lad Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 eBay 5 litres for $30 ex-Sydney (free shipping) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EV Cali Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 4 hours ago, PKay said: Hi, I have been having some ordinary results on old classical records where I haven't been able to get rid of a fair bit of noise. I am now down to one record at a time with Triton and some alcohol with a time of 20 minutes per record and the temp in the high 30s. I think that the motor may be a rotating a bit too fast although Seb @BATMAQNhas the same setup but seems to be getting much better results. How slow does the rotation need to be in order to get the best results? Does it matter if the rotation is a more than one rotation per minute? This is the kit I bought. https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Ultrasonic-Record-Cleaner-Kit-Vinyl-Record-Cleaning/282833389338?hash=item41da2f071a:g:egAAAOSwRr5ZuK81 I have my temp set at 45%. They some times look like they are going a bit floppy but always return to shape. For you to be down to one record at a time for 20 minutes per record ,they would normally have to be really filthy to need that treatment. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKay Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 8 hours ago, EV Cali said: I have my temp set at 45%. They some times look like they are going a bit floppy but always return to shape. For you to be down to one record at a time for 20 minutes per record ,they would normally have to be really filthy to need that treatment. Do you think the extra heat makes any difference? I use my Record Dr RCM immediately after so the records need to be flat and solid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABG Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 32 minutes ago, PKay said: Do you think the extra heat makes any difference? I use my Record Dr RCM immediately after so the records need to be flat and solid. Yep. I reckon it's more effective at 40 degrees or so (more subjective, based on experience - I haven't done any conclusive experiments to prove it). No problems vacuuming afterwards. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKay Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 7 minutes ago, ABG said: Yep. I reckon it's more effective at 40 degrees or so (more subjective, based on experience - I haven't done any conclusive experiments to prove it). No problems vacuuming afterwards. Thanks Andrew, I’ll give it a try on a record I have cleaned that is still noisy and see if there’s any improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hensa Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 It may well be a case of the grooves having micro-scratches from previous years of only being 'cleaned' by moving the dust particles around (causing micro-scratches) with a dry brush. It is a sad fact that many old records were cleaned this way for years and while they may look in good shape to the naked eye, they're actually pretty damaged deeper in the grooves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABG Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 2 hours ago, Hensa said: It may well be a case of the grooves having micro-scratches from previous years of only being 'cleaned' by moving the dust particles around (causing micro-scratches) with a dry brush. It is a sad fact that many old records were cleaned this way for years and while they may look in good shape to the naked eye, they're actually pretty damaged deeper in the grooves. Spot on Greg. A bright LED light will generally show up this sort of damage. Second hand records that have looked great in the shop look god awful when I bring them home and put them under my light. I really must get myself a good LED torch... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ochremoon Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 In my experience a record can have loads of these micro-scratches and play great, which must mean superficial damage that doesn't penetrate the grooves. Conversely, some that look perfect play with noise, which must mean damage down in the grooves that can't be seen, most likely, I would think, from a worn or mis-tracking stylus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKay Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 I have bought classical records on 2 occasions now where the sellers claim there was no noise in their system. I have a Dynavector 17d3 so I’m wondering whether the 17d3 gets deeper into the groove. I will try the led torch tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hensa Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 17 minutes ago, PKay said: I have bought classical records on 2 occasions now where the sellers claim there was no noise in their system. I have a Dynavector 17d3 so I’m wondering whether the 17d3 gets deeper into the groove. I will try the led torch tonight. The sellers probably only had a CD player... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKay Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 11 hours ago, ABG said: Spot on Greg. A bright LED light will generally show up this sort of damage. Second hand records that have looked great in the shop look god awful when I bring them home and put them under my light. I really must get myself a good LED torch... Thanks Andrew, Nothing wrong with my cleaner. The LED torch shows up the deeper scratching. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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