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o2so

Treatment of non dedicated room with big window

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What size are they Filippo?

 

My suggestion would be to try the two reflection points on the ceiling (one per speaker reflection point) and the remaining one behind your noggin on the wall behind.

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What size are they Filippo?
 
My suggestion would be to try the two reflection points on the ceiling (one per speaker reflection point) and the remaining one behind your noggin on the wall behind.

120 X 60 each and 2inches thick.
ceiling cannot be done, I got approved just for back wall 373d690f9ab9fa2567b3e749423adfd9.jpg

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They are nice.

 

Ceiling- OK. :)

 

it made a huge difference for me but I don't have to get permission. However, it has cost me maybe half a mill over the years for that privilege so I suggest you just don't put any on the ceiling. :D

 

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You can suggest Plano Bevel ceiling foams to your wife she might find them agreeable.

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They are nice.
 
Ceiling- OK.
 
it made a huge difference for me but I don't have to get permission. However, it has cost me maybe half a mill over the years for that privilege so I suggest you just don't put any on the ceiling.
 

Oh thanks but this is still work in progress. I will print in them with a UV printer which doesn't affect acoustic properties.


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Anyway is the ceiling a big factor when using planar speakers? Shouldn't be, right?

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9 minutes ago, o2so said:

Anyway is the ceiling a big factor when using planar speakers? Shouldn't be, right?

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I don't know the answer to that one mate, sorry.

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Posted (edited)

@o2so any more info on that printing process mate?

 

I just did a similar thing this week too. My lounge is against a small wall to a staircase, then another wall directly behind. This put your head 6-8 inches from the first wall (just over top of head height) and say 1.2m from the back wall.

 

I had to do something to stop my little guy climbing up and over the lounge (my excuse to the missus anyway) and I found 4 cheap panels from Trevor Lees that would fit almost perfectly as a temporary solution.

 

The difference is mind blowing, was a bit strange to listen to, for a little while anyway.

 

I'm going to put the other two back to back, mainly so you can't see the exposed back of them, but will be interesting to see what difference the thickness makes.

 

The thing that amazes me most but, is that it's seemed to have affected frequencies quite low and I can't for the life of me understand how.

 

I put on an album I played bass on myself, where my guitar was tuned down 4 semitones from standard (C), and has a nice, drawn out, open C note, with no other instruments playing. Now I'm pretty sure this would have a fundamental freq of 32.7 htz, correct me if I'm wrong anyone. It's turned the sometimes droney sound that note made and made it sound so much tighter and controlled. What I can't figure out, is how any freq anywhere near this low could be affected by the panels? Maybe it's just a harmonic of the note that's being treated and that was causing the issues?

 

Either way, looking forward to experimenting further. 

!cid_49650CC0-A451-44D5-B8B4-0EA52C7A60FC.jpg

!cid_47B3297A-14E6-49E0-A2DB-91AC7E480C37.jpg

Edited by JamesMay

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Posted (edited)

@JamesMay  I can only assume that the management of the higher frequencies allows the lower ones to shine better, maybe they are always there but we aren't listening to them when the higher ones are misbehaving in an untreated room? Just a completely uneducated stab in the dark.

 

Cool bass story, will keep an eye out for a combo bass/rhythm guitar a-la Animals As Leaders for you.

Edited by Darren69

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I can't figure it out either. It's definitely not just the upper end, the bass lost a lot of the "Boominess", and sounds a lot tighter, like you get with a bass trap.

 

My only other guess, is that bass was building up in the staircase, and this has just isolated the listening position from that?

 

As for the bass/guitar combo, I've always wanted a baritone guitar to try, just haven't got my hands on one yet.

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Mate sorry for the very slow reply. You can find all info on the website of Primacoustic, the manufacturer of the psnels I bought. I don't know if you can UV print any other panels, they must be specifically designed for that. I hope this helps.

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By the way, this is the finished job.
Very happy with it!fff9761bda1c770cb9c0f00253ea3da6.jpg4d7d772308fc38204c9904436caeca43.jpg

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 ... now, if you could somehow manage to space them a couple of inches off the wall (the more the better) without them 'looking daggie', even with temporary spacers, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised at the benefits - might find another home for the coffee table when listening .... 

 

The printing certainly made them look very neat and suits the decor  - very nicely done indeed.

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6 hours ago, jrhill said:

 ... now, if you could somehow manage to space them a couple of inches off the wall (the more the better) without them 'looking daggie', even with temporary spacers, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised at the benefits - might find another home for the coffee table when listening .... 

 

The printing certainly made them look very neat and suits the decor  - very nicely done indeed.

 

That's good advice.

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Thanks for your feedback, much appreciated. It'll be hard to space them off the wall as they are mounted on impalers, but when I had them sitting on top of the couch's backrest the absorption was definitely higher. A bit too much even.

I am now looking at putting some diffusion on the front wall. There is a massive tv screen there, but I could put some panels behind the speakers and even on top of the TV. Do you think this would be worth it?

I think I'll use some vicoustic vc2.
998138e4627dd43d798f580d4cb7f386.jpgfbe1e249bac006aa467b5f9322522c65.jpg

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I have a definite 'thing' about that bit of real estate called the front wall between the speakers - it's generally the most sensitive place for effecting speaker sound even tho there's other boundaries that might produce more significant peaks/dips like ceiling, sidewalls, etc

 

Unfortunately, planar speakers aren't exempt from this despite their reduced side radiation effects so your response  will still be effected by what is essentially a big  piece of reflective glass (well, not quite but ...) and the cabinet/stand also contributed too

 

So, yes, any diffusion panels behind the speakers will obviously have some direct effect on the sound in the room and, as you've possibly seen on some other setups, using some more absorber panels like you've got on the rear wall, where that big screen now rests will dampen some of the reflection peaks/dips of that front wall - I don't know how much of this is actually possible but perhaps you might ask 'bilbo' who also has some similar panels (big maggies) and is going thru some setup cures using diffusers/ absorbers - the Visoustics are pretty good value in comparison to most other pro-audio based solutions altho the people from Lithiania where I got my Schroeder foam cut diffusers also make similar ones to your photo, generally known as 'Skylines' 

 

The advantage to buying locally is that if they 'don't work' for you, you can usually return them for refund/exchange and still benefit from their experience with the units - you do need a fairly large area for them to work well, perhaps 2 - 3 sq. metres - I would suggest you look at the 1D diffusers (like 'bilbo' had cut from foam) rather than the Skyline type from Vicoustic company behind your speakers - the best benefits of the Skylines (Vicoustic ones) is on the ceilings, would you believe - not sure how you 'make them invisible' there as youcan't put a cloth cover in front of that irregular surface, - very effective for 'ordinary, non-planar' speakers but not sure how they'd effect the sound with those speakers of yours

 

There's a mob down here that's developed a newer type of absorber panel that's worth a good look - they add a piece of clear Perspex in front of the foam panel - 'the "Sound Acoustic" company, and they offer 8 pieces of 600mm x 600mm for $440 that's a pretty good offer - you can also get these cut from a similar type of acoustic foam and use a nicely finished 'plywood' instead of the clear Perspex for a more aesthetic finish - his name is also 'James' so he must be a good guy!!

 

I'll try to add some photos from their site - quite instructive, particularly if you're thinking about more diy projects - there's a variation of the familiar 'bass traps' that caught my eye - it's a bit chunkie about 7" thick but colours are mentioned and using a plywood insert panel makes them more acceptable for a lounge room

 

Don't seem to be able to add the photos but look at their 'Sound acoustic' site - the bass traps are HAB600/150 and diffusers are HA600-75 Hybrid Acoustic Absorber/Diffuser - I should ask for a commission, eh!

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Here is an example of dipoles and a treated front wall.... my listening room.

I also use the Sound Acoustic products for 1st reflection absorption and diffusion.

This picture is in My System this morning thread.  There are others in An Update to Frankn System.

 

 

IMG_2940.JPG.000198e59ee628afd6c89325488e9862.JPG

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Hybrid diffuser(s) mounted on move-able stands

 

IMG_2830.JPG.0b801e3c8298866c88a9da727d184a13.JPG

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Nice! Do you have close ups on the vicoustics grey panels?

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This is from the web..... exactly what I'm using in Grey and White.  I also have some white ones on the ceiling.

 

Multifuser%20DC2%20front.jpg

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I spent a considerable time trying to figure out the significance of the slanted edges but gave up in the end - they do look neat with the speckeled (?) finish

 

Frank, I your top photo as my facepage until I finally figured out what those traps were - it's great to have confirmation about a hifi application of these products

I got about 3 off 8' x 4' sheets of 50mm Polymax (XHD, I think) and a smaller one in 100mm, and made up a couple of 'bass traps' for the corners and front wall but need a lot thicker to get down to below 150Hz to mate up with either the Acoustic Fields BDA or maybe the Limp Mass traps, so I just bought an 8 off  set of those 600 x 600mm traps/diffusers (ply, not clear) from Sound Acoustic for about $500 delivered, or about $60 ea - couldn't make them myself for this much -

 

It's interesting that these acoustical products are coming down in price and they are starting to appear in both hifi rooms and in some of the demo rooms at Audio Shows - maybe more this year

 

Filipo,  I hope this is of some use for you  ...

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Thanks mate. Do the white ones get dusty, or dirty, or yellowy with time?

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Thanks mate. Do the white ones get dusty, or dirty, or yellowy with time?

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Posted (edited)

@jrhill my bass traps are the BT120/80, 2/corner. The panels are mounted on additional 140mm absorbtion panels I constructed using acoustic ceiling bats in wooden frames. 

@o2so no mine are not yellowing - colour is stable. I'm sure they have dust on them but you'd have to be standing with your nose in them to notice. A feather duster would work fine though. 

The picture shows some mounted on my ceiling. I need some more, but it gives you an idea. Obviously not for everyone but I can play as it is my room. 

2nd picture is another moveable hybrid diffuser at 1st reflection behind speakers. 

IMG_1026.JPG

IMG_1027.JPG

Edited by frankn
Added info

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