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TerryO

Vieanna Acoustic Beethoven Concert grand vs Beethoven Baby Grand.

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Posted (edited)

So far I have not found to much about VA speakers on this forum but thought I would ask the question just in case.

 

24 hours ago I thought I had this sorted about which of the two speakers suited us better, but after another day of comparisons I am now sitting on the fence. My dilemma is I have a set of Vienna Acoustic Beethoven Concert Grands on loan from the Hifi shop that I bought the smaller VA Baby Grands from and there is no clear winner so far, both sound great and have strengths and weaknesses. The Concert Grands definitely fill the room with far more depth of sound and the mid range and tweeter are far more accurate then the Baby Grands, especially at the same volume, turn the Volume up with the Baby Grands and funnily you get some of that extra range back that the Concert Grands have at a lower volume.

However this more accurate mid range and tweeter can make the Concert Grands sometimes sound a bit sharp with some music.

The Baby Grands in some ways are easier to listen to and with mainly slower vocal tracks can sound, for that want of a better term, nicer. Not sure how to explain this but to me the Cocert Grands allow you to hear more in a music piece, namely you can hear separation of instruments and vocals more clearer.

Our room which is L shaped with lots of uncovered glass (for now) also has hard wood floors with a decent rug bertween the speakers and the sofa. The size is approx 18' X 21' with 8' ceilings and it has a long 7' wide hall way coming off of the end furtherist from the speakers, This configuration tends to rob any depth of sound from the speakers which is a pain and that is why I initially decided the larger Concert Grands were superior. I will soon get coverings for the Windows but I'm stuck with the open L shape design.

I can see if we keep the Baby Grands having to get at least one but more than likely two decent musical Subs which would be more expensive then the change over I have been offered for the Concert Grands.

What makes this comparison on which speaker to keep even harder is I'm using a Yamaha RXA 3060 AV Receiver with these speakers which is not the amp I will ultimately listen to music with. 

I realise this is a long shot given the lack of discussion on VA speakers in here, but has anyone else compared the Concert Grands and Baby Grands in their home at the same time? And if so what was the outcome? 

 

Any thoughts on this would be appreciated.

cheers Terry

Edited by TerryO

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I have heard neither.

But going on your story,I would buy the Concert Grands everyday of the week. The fact that you are using a Yamaha Surround Sound amplifier concretes this conclusion in place.

My 2 cents worth.

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I have been struggling with a very challenging room with lots of glass and hard surfaces,as well. 

The tendency is to go for a quick fix solution - new kit etc. I think I would wait till you have window coverings- it will make a huge difference then reassess. 

 

 

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I have the VA BBGs and when buying was comparing them to the concert grands. They have the same tweeter and midrange drivers. Just the bass drivers are different 2x 6in vs 3 x 7 in. I ended up with the baby grands because I already had a sub and didn't require the extra bass. I agree the the concert grand did have more scale and if you don't already have a sub or subs then I would go with th concert grands.

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Posted (edited)

Hi Keith, out of interest what amp are you using with your VA's?

 

I am also at present going through the process of deciding on what integrated amp with HT bypass to get for music use, but will also be used to drive either the Baby or Concert Grands as a stand alone amp for music.

 

Russ, Basically I only have this opportunity to trade in the Baby Grands on the Concert Grands this week. So unfortunately I will have to decide before window covers are fitted.

 

cheers Terry

Edited by TerryO

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I had a pair of bbg for a while, wonderful speakers !

 

im wondering though if the Concert Grand you have loaned are run in ? Do you know how new they are ? That would explain the negative top/mid vs the bbg's you mentioned potentially. Because as KeithL points out they have the same drivers of course for those duties.

 

in your room, long term I think the Concert Grand would work out as the best option, without a real need to add a sub.

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The Concerts have roughly a 100 hours on them from what they say, so yes they are broken in.

Even though the Tweeter and Mid are the same between the two models to me anyway the Concerts sound quite different to the Baby Grands, which I am surprised by. The salesman before hooking them up did comment about the difference in Tweeter sound quality between the two models which at least means I'm not the only one who has noticed a difference.

 

I wonder given the Concert is a taller speaker if having the Tweeter and Mid  being closer to ear level when sitting might have something to do with it?

 

cheers Terry

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The ability to sound great at lower listening volumes is an underated speaker quality. Other things being equal, would be a deciding factor for me

 

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I wouldn't be surprised if they open up more after a couple of hundred hours.

 

Good observation about the height, it can be a real determinate with regards clarity, relating to your seated position.

 

Perhaps raise the rear spikes to tilt the tweeter down a bit may be of benefit ??

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40 minutes ago, TerryO said:

Hi Keith, out of interest what amp are you using with your VA's?

 

I am also at present going through the process of deciding on what integrated amp with HT bypass to get for music use, but will also be used to drive either the Baby or Concert Grands as a stand alone amp for music.

 

Russ, Basically I only have this opportunity to trade in the Baby Grands on the Concert Grands this week. So unfortunately I will have to decide before window covers are fitted.

 

cheers Terry

Currently using a Parasound Halo integrated. Previously used a Musical Fidelity A308. Both amps have HT bypass and both perform very well with these speakers.

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Which amplifier is in the plan for upgrade time? That could affect your speaker choice.

 

If the yammy avr is working nice with the Baby Grands consider the versatility of multiple subs.

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Posted (edited)

I have only heard the Concert Grands, out of audio-gd amp, in a reasonably well treated room. They were brand new, maybe 10 hours, and I didn't notice any hints of being tiring to listen to them. Although some people react like that when there's too much detail.

 

In my opinion the room treatment will tame the highs and mids and make them easier to listen. If you're not ready to put it in now, then try improvising with some blankets, towels and pillows and see if that changes anything.

 

Edited by PleasantSounds
typo correction

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50 minutes ago, AudioGeek said:

The ability to sound great at lower listening volumes is an underated speaker quality. Other things being equal, would be a deciding factor for me

 

+1

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Try moving the Concert grands around a bit more if not tried different spots.

Angle them so they are firing straight forward, try moving them back a bit then forward,

They may need better positioning than the other one.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, warweary said:

Which amplifier is in the plan for upgrade time? That could affect your speaker choice.

 

If the yammy avr is working nice with the Baby Grands consider the versatility of multiple subs.

 

Regarding what amp, I had been going down the path of the yet to be released here Peachtree Nova 300. I have listened to the smaller Mozarts with the new Nova 150 and compared to a number of other amps, including the Yamaha AS3000, it sounded to my ears anyway much more musical yet still very clear and precise.

 

Yesterday I also back to backed a RXA 2060 to a new Rega 120w amp (sorry can't remember the model) and a Rotel 200w power amp, with the Yamaha as the pre amp, driving a set of Beethovens. The Rega sounded the best by far, the Rotel was better than the Yamaha on its own but was more brutal in how it sounded then the Rega.

 

The annoying thing is if I go with the Concerts then it will put off my buying of a amp and possibly end up restricting me to the Nova 150 rather than the 300, which chances are I'm guessing the larger Concerts would be more suited to.

 

my budget for a amp was around the 3k mark and so far with my limited knowledge in amps it would seem that might end up being a compromise with either of these two speakers, that is why I was hoping the Nova 300 would be as good as some of the reviews I had read from os.

 

By the way I'm using a Oppo 203 as the music player. Six weeks ago this started with a new UHD TV and a $600 sound bar and has grown out of all proportion since then. Having not owned or really listened to a good music system for a very long time this new found love of good music is proving a little expensive. However I am truly enjoying building this system up, on the other hand my wife is not yet feeling the same level of excitement for my new found passion.

 

cheers Terry

Edited by TerryO

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Terry,

 

There is an amp in the classifieds that works very well with the Vienna Acoustics, the creek Destiny, well worth a look.

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Ray H said:

Terry,

 

There is an amp in the classifieds that works very well with the Vienna Acoustics, the creek Destiny, well worth a look.

 

 

Theres also a Krell going for $1100.

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Posted (edited)

I have a pair of the older mozarts. They sounded nice with my creek evo 5350 and an Arcam a90 - both 100 watts or more - and terrible with a primare i32. They  really came alive with an elektra reference. I suspect it will be the same with both Beethovens. If you're going to the trouble of new speakers in a largish room I would suggest something with a bit more grunt than the destiny - and definitely audition it.

Edited by buddyev

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There's a nice mf m6i for sale in the classifieds that would work very nicely with the VAs. It's got ht by pass too. But as buddyev says when it comes to amps try to audition whenevwr with ypue speakers whenever possible.

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Previously worked for a retailer of VA. Probably my favourite brand in the store and would gladly live with any of their floorstanders or Haydyn's (the music is where I want to be one day)
I'd keep the speakers you have and put the diflference of the new purchase and your amp allowance into new amplification/source/dac, either stand alone or something with ht bypass if you would like it integrated into your existing setup.



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I have owned both for considerable periods of time, I upgraded the BBG to the BCG about 8 months ago and haven't looked back. I agree with your assessment, to me the mid range is nicer and the BCG also create a far larger sound stage. It was like going from being at the back of the auditorium to the front seats! Bass wise the BCG perform better, adding some noticeable improvement in the ability to reproduce lower bass with a bit more impact. This is by no means over the top and still in keeping with the overall neutrality of the speakers signature sound. I've found other brands 'sparkle' in the store next to VA speakers, however when it comes to actually living with them that sparkle actually becomes their downfall, with the VA's remaining beautifully accurate but no grating in the top end. In that same vane both VA's don't produce huge bass, but in my experience the BCG do a much better job of digging the sub bass out of electronic music with a subwoofer-esque like ability. Basically, where there is super low bass you get a much better 'kick' feel from the BCG's than the BBG's.

 

I've ran both with Solid State and Valve gear (all McIntosh, MC275, MC302, MHA100, MA7000 & MA5200) and can say that they will punch lower with the solid state and create a bigger, but shallower sound stage. With valves you loose some of the super low end but the paring yields a beautifully rich, slightly narrower and incredibly deep soundstage which I found fantastically intimate with the BCG's if you want to listen at lower volumes. I've found the BCG's were pickier and prefer to be paired on a 4ohm tap over 8ohm, where as there was not so much difference (if any) for the BBG's. The BBC's were happy on either 8 or 4ohm.

 

Hope this helps and I'm happy to answer any specific q's you had.

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8 hours ago, Psyberpunk said:

I have owned both for considerable periods of time, I upgraded the BBG to the BCG about 8 months ago and haven't looked back. I agree with your assessment, to me the mid range is nicer and the BCG also create a far larger sound stage. It was like going from being at the back of the auditorium to the front seats! Bass wise the BCG perform better, adding some noticeable improvement in the ability to reproduce lower bass with a bit more impact. This is by no means over the top and still in keeping with the overall neutrality of the speakers signature sound. I've found other brands 'sparkle' in the store next to VA speakers, however when it comes to actually living with them that sparkle actually becomes their downfall, with the VA's remaining beautifully accurate but no grating in the top end. In that same vane both VA's don't produce huge bass, but in my experience the BCG do a much better job of digging the sub bass out of electronic music with a subwoofer-esque like ability. Basically, where there is super low bass you get a much better 'kick' feel from the BCG's than the BBG's.

 

I've ran both with Solid State and Valve gear (all McIntosh, MC275, MC302, MHA100, MA7000 & MA5200) and can say that they will punch lower with the solid state and create a bigger, but shallower sound stage. With valves you loose some of the super low end but the paring yields a beautifully rich, slightly narrower and incredibly deep soundstage which I found fantastically intimate with the BCG's if you want to listen at lower volumes. I've found the BCG's were pickier and prefer to be paired on a 4ohm tap over 8ohm, where as there was not so much difference (if any) for the BBG's. The BBC's were happy on either 8 or 4ohm.

 

Hope this helps and I'm happy to answer any specific q's you had.

 

 

Thank you very much Michael, I have kind of blown my budget on the Concert Grands, which is fine but the Yamaha is now annoying me when I listen to music so I'm now searching for a integrated amp that won't break the bank.

 

I will be in contact, thank you again.

 

cheers Terry

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@TerryO

I had a Yamaha AVR (your AVR's smaller brother) and please, please get an amp. A used integrated here wont break the bank. Maybe @cafad has a nice one to sell you for your speakers.

Buying used means that you can sell and upgrade and not lose too much.

Enjoy the journey.

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Posted (edited)

Well the 2-channel system keeps growing, in the end we ended up with both Beethovan Baby Grands and the Beethovan Concert Grands. On the weekend we picked up the second set of Vieanna Acoustic speakers, this time they were a secondhand pair of Beethovan Baby Grands (BBG's) which were purchased from a SNA member.

The issues I had early on several months ago with trying to decide between the VA BBG's and Beethovan Concert Grands (BCG's) while using a Yamaha RXA 3060 HT amp as the power source ended up getting sorted as well.

 

After we settled on the BCG's soon after we took the advice of a number of SNA members and got another amp, in fact we ended up buying two amps, first the MF M6i which made the BCG's sound excellent until a number of weeks later we had a chance to audition a PrimaLuna integrated amp which when teamed with the BCG's was in another league for sq, again both amps were purchased off of SNA members.

 

To add to the equation I have also just purchased a Oppo 205, which has dramatically improved sq in the system. 

 

So after spending a number of hours to day mixing and matching the amps and CD players with speakers, I have found the BBG's work best when teamed with the MF M6i over the PrimaLuna for some reason.

 

As mentioned earlier we found about a month ago when comparing amps with the bigger BCG speakers that they sound much nicer matched with the PrimaLuna valve amp over the ss Music Fidelity amp. So by chance It would seam that this mixing and matching amps with speakers has worked out well so far.

 

Both sets of speakers and amps no matter in what combination just sound so much better teamed with the 205 over the original 203. Even though the 205 is a big step up I will eventually get a dedicated hybrid CD player.

 

Anyway both sets of speakers really sound so much the better now that the Yamaha is only doing HT duties.

There actually was a reason for buying a second set of speakers and another DVD/CD player as we will soon more than likely because of work need a second 2-channel as well as HT system and we really like the Musical easy listening Vieanna Acoustic sound. 

 

In the next ten days we will receive in the mail two different sets of speaker cables and interconnects, so it will be interesting to find out if the new cables improve the sq or not.

Must admit I'm really enjoying getting back into HiFi, however my bank account isn't enjoying it to much though. ... ;)

 

So in the end which of the two different size VA Beethovan speakers is best? Right now neither, both sound extremely good yet quite different with the different amps driving them and we are really enjoying both.

 

cheers Terry

 

 

 

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Edited by TerryO

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Great story...looking forward to hearing about the cables.

Sent from my SM-T813 using Tapatalk

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