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Lavsy

PJ & screen buying advice

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Hello everyone,

I am slowly sorting out my home theatre, and am looking at getting a PJ & screen.

PJ will be for TV, foxtel & movie viewing. No gaming or computer usage with it.

Viewing distance approx 5m.

My budget is anywhere from $4 to 7k. I know this is quite a wide range, but I'm a bang for buck kind of guy in that I'm happy to spend more if I'm actually getting a better result for my intended purposes.

 

Some questions: 

1. Does spending more on a projector give better image quality for everyday TV & foxtel viewing, or is it more for bluray viewing where it excels? I ask this as I will be spending 2/3 of the time watching non-dvd/bluray material & am concerned that a $4k PJ will look the same as a $7k PJ for TV/Foxtel/Netflix content. 

2. What should my budget be for a PJ screen, assuming I spend say $5k on a PJ? Looking at approx 110-120 inch.....

3. With the above in mind, can you please recommend some options for a PJ & screen please. I note JVC seem to get a lot of love here, and there is a new range just released.....

 

Thank you!

 

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Spend most on the PJ.

Next best spend is calibration, either purchase a meter + software to do it yourself, or pay to get it done.

 

SCREENS are topic of their own....personally, as long as it is as WHITE [no Cream / off white ] or Wall painted PURE WHITE.... You are wasting your money buying anything else...been around doing this stuff for 20+ years....stuffed if I can notice a difference once a screen is calibrated....That's if it's White to start with......you, or the person calibrating your screen, will end up with the same results regardless of the screen projected on....for the simple reason is it's now calibrated for that particular screen [Calibration is taken measurements of reflections, to a meter, off the screen, to the meter in place ]

 

Screen 'Gain" is a obsolete term......Screen Gain was needed back in the days of old 3 lens CRT PJ's....reason was the small light out put of old 3 lens CRT PJ's...people used to have multiple 3 lens CRT PJ converging, just to get extra brightness [ Stuffed if I would have the been the ISF tec that got called in for that job  ]

Edited by Tweaky

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Ok thanks for that info Tweaky. I do plan to get a calibration done by an expert.
Any other thoughts from people about my questions?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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5 minutes ago, Lavsy said:

Ok thanks for that info Tweaky. I do plan to get a calibration done by an expert.
Any other thoughts from people about my questions?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Oz Theatre Screens do a nice bang for buck screen with very good velvet covered frame that absorbs any over spray of light. I have a 130" scope version and cost me about $1300 5 years ago.

 

There is a JVC X7000 for sale in the classifieds with only around 600 hours use. 1 of the best projectors you will find, and 4k capable too. I also have one.

 

Foxtel HD is just okay, but Netflix is very impressive picture wise. Don't scrimp on the projector, or you will regret it for years.

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Yes don't scrimp on projector, or screen for that matter, the jvc would be a snip can't think of any better for the money. With screens a lot of Chinese rubbish on eBay stay away. Something local eg oz theatre, lpmorgan or screen techniques is really worth it. Screens are what picture portrayed on. Image literally comes to light for you to see, don't scrimp there.

 

Also decide viewing distance dependant on screen size going for. Or decide screen size depending on viewing distance if stuck with that. Typically 2.2-3x image heights tends to work well.

 

too close and fta to will look horrid, too far and won't see much difference between DVD or blu-ray

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I have an JVC DLA X7000 for sale .....(mentioned above ..thanks :))  It is a stunning projector . You have to spend crazy money to better it, and i have compared quite  a few projector,s over the past month or so.. 

I recently compared  the X7000 as well as the X7500 and my current X9500 against the SONY VPL-VW550/675ES current model ( $15K projector) , and honestly the 3 JVC,s are far better projectors. 

 

Oz Theatre screens..... again you wont get better and Richards,s service is beyond reproach ...highly recommended. :thumb:

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If somebody could post a link to anything that shows the actual screen material and surface of LP Morgan or Screen Technics screen, please do so.

LP Morgan used to have a website explaining all this [with examples], but since they got bought out by the Hansa group they don't even have their own website.....well if they do, I can't find it.

There seem to be no examples of the different available screen materials that I can find, just written ones.

 

Due to my proposed upgrade of my HT, I've been looking at my options for a possible upgrade of my screen....... I have built my own fixed to wall screens before, problem is that the only suitable wall to place a screen like that on has a door on one side, which makes seating and sound setup less than ideal, hence me turning everything in the room around 180 degrees, and why a commercially available fixed screen is out.

 

I HAVE to have a motorized drop down screen, as it comes down in front of a 'width of wall' sized window, that I make light tight with curtains lined with 3 pass blockout material, I've built a pelmet covered with Black velvet to cover the screen casing and to also stop any small light leaks from the top of the curtains/ceiling, and have built my own DIY adjustable screen masking system [ also covered in Black Velvet] -this has been removed ATM as I have come up with a better design, that will also double to tension the screen.....Yes, I'll post about it when I build it.

Now because of this, my options regarding screen material is severely limited [basically to 2 commercially available finishes...white or a Grey..with no screen gain choice.] well that's unless I want to basically special order something / import at a cost that would probably end up being around the price of the new PJ [That's not going to happen]

 

So, since I'm basically heading towards 4K playback, from what I'm reading I should be aiming for a screen that is as 'Textureless' as possible, so fine details will be reproduced.

Explanation as why that is needed is at the link below.....also I grabbed the screen shots from same page.

https://www.projectorscreen.com/blog/HD-Projection-Surfaces-Explained

Examples of 3 different screens, first one is textureless, second two are different textures, then below , in the same order, when reproducing a 4K visual.

58d5ce03caf16_UHD4kTextureless.jpg.3d93cd43b6ccf6a043d151238ff5b3d9.jpg58d5ce130fe02_TextureMatttypeA.jpg.13260668925ec688f2fe4de0e5a5a5e8.jpg58d5ce1870c5a_TexturedmatteTypeB.jpg.76ed24b662f0f5b2875a951efe538eec.jpg

58d5ce24617a0_Pixel4Ktextureless.jpg.200321e7574289dc3505cc84a6ea2bdf.jpg58d5ce2f02e68_PixelTextmattA.jpg.ab7ca86bd62733ce6ad7e5ae0fd406f2.jpg58d5ce403c410_PixelTexturemattB.jpg.48dc53949d96624c972f6a7322a3f75a.jpg

 

My current screen is somewhat between the textureless left and middle photos.

 

Now you have that info, I have some questions.....this is basically for those who are running 4k or similar pixel shifting 1080p/4k model PJ's...JVC models or Epsons.

If answering, could you specify if your room is light controlled,Projector being used, and why you chose the screen you did, and what the pros/cons are with your screen choice IE: would you change to another if you could- and what would it be ?

1] Are you using a contrast increasing screen [IE:Grey ] if so, Why, what gain is it, if any?

2] If using a White screen, what gain is it, if any?

3] Anybody using a Silver screen, if so why? and what gain is it.

 

Now you might be reading this post and think, well I stated that there is limited choice for screen material with a motorized drop down screen, and have stated that  I am not prepared to import a specialized one at a premium, why am I asking?

Well there is always a solution to a problem, and I think I have found mine, it's just that I want to know what is considered the best colour/gain for a screen with these PJ's before I embark on modify my current screen.

 

What's the solution ?......see the two different threads from the AVS forum below.

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/110-diy-screen-section/1432177-painting-onto-106-tab-tensioned-screen-silver-fire-v2-5-4-0-a.html

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/110-diy-screen-section/929997-beginner-s-guide-simple-diy-painted-screens-3.html#post_12683704

 

Edited by Tweaky

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tweaky screens do have texture however... they tend to be coated over. My drop down screen technics is no issue with my jvc x7000 which is uhd capable. The screen technics are 1.1 gain. I don't believe you want too much more. Well am not a believer in high gain Screens given the kinds of effects they themselves create eh sparkles and such.

 

As a note you can buy completely textureless if really want. But then you will find they are in fact more or a rubbery type material and the lp Morgan rondo for instance used. However I have since read over the years other issues can get with screens such as those with wrinkles and stretch and what not. Alternatively sometimes some will use edge tensioning systems on these stretchy styles but from what have seen really more trouble than worth.

 

in my opinion perhaps over thinking this one. I have the screen technics premium electricinema motorised screen and have been very happy with it for some years now.

 

both screen tchnics and lp Morgan are both local companies and should be  able to speak to them pay them a visit if want. With mine I spoke directly with screen technics in making sure of specification including being sure re dimensions etc especially mine was a custom. And kind of thing can do being a local company and even got a call for them when making which was the following week to check some specifics before I received it the week after.

 

have had for some years now and something very happy with and happy to recommend.

 

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So AL, of the above 3 examples, which would you estimate screen texture was closest to yours ?

I gather your screen is white, you didn't mention anything about a contrast gaining Grey screen......actually, in a light controller room [which I also gather yours is], I doubt, unless ambient light is a particular problem, Grey screens are not needed.

 

As a aside: I'm going to do some tests over the next week or so, regarding potential candidates for recoating my existing screen [both are White]

I've used both before when making fixed screens when I was using a very low light output CRT PJ.

 

I intend to just coat some segments of thin ply with both and put them up against my current screen, whack the PJ on, put a 100% white pluge Patten on, then measure if there is any REAL difference.....if there is, I'll do some more test with large test pieces and see if there is any sort of Halo / diffraction emanating from the test samples.

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Tweaky, to answer your questions, my screen is white gain 1.1

and no I'd never go for a grey screen because it basically then gives up ever going to be able to do pure whites. Nothing you do in calibration will bring back whites best you ever will get is a shade of grey that screen is. Grey screens used to be more popular when I feel projectors were incapable of great blacks so a grey screen is used to raise the black floor so end up with what then looks likes blacks, we don't need them these days with projectors we have like jvcs.

 

Yes some used to get grey screens for ambient light, ie for non light controlled rooms. Personally if can't adequately light control I'd suggest maybe projectors not the option, and man f I can light control in my setup being typical lounge room with all those windows surely anyone can if keen to do !

 

And yes I have gone to quite some effort with light control. Even though have 8 windows surrounding the room and huge light filled staircase behind and Aldo opening up to open plan kitchen dining. We have put in heavy multi pass block out curtains with pelmets. Also at rear two doors close off from the staircase when needed and the open plan area. Makes quite useable to enjoy  in day time conditions with light control measures in place. And same with night time. Certainly enough to enjoy and notice things like fade to blacks with the jvc where to wow. And enough to notice contrast difference from LCD Epsons owned to jvc previous and step up to current jvc. All have shown gains in their native contrast.

 

i like the relatively low gain 1.1 as mentioned as going too far with high gain I feel can create own issues. Again a throw back to projectors old that were quite weak in output. But we haven't had that issue for years ! Certainly not with the epsons and two jvcs have owned, in fact with the current jvc was a little worried wouldn't be able to crank down enough to get the 12 FL at centre. But fortunately the dual iris of the jvc gives enough control to achieve.

 

As to texture actually none look like my screen. There is no texture as such unless look very close. All woven screens will have a texture but the coating over basically gives a pretty smooth finish. The weave is very tight and the warp-weft does go perp and horizontal. Which is really best for drop screens.

 

perforated AT screens only ones I know where do a diagonal weave where don't want the pattern line of projector with open weave of perforations to end up with Moire patterns forming. However this is is non concern with using non AT screens

 

can assure the pixels are so fine with 4kuhd and image jvc produces that even close up you can't pick individual pixels, and neither with image onscreen will seen any screen weave or anything.

  

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Well the pictures posted above are of a 4K PJ projecting onto Flat, as close to Flat without being actually Flat, and weave Patten......they were shot from 60cm from the screen.

 

Look, and in cases like this, once you know what to look for, you will find it within your own system....annoying fact.

 

I think I'm OK screen gain wise as it is, but no harm in doing some testing to see if things can be improved without any huge expense.

 

The two mediums I will test [I didn't have the metering capabilities I have now when I first used these mediums ]

Art Spectrum Artist's Gesso, this s a pure White ground that has a high Mica content [well the purple label stuff does], it's designed to make any colours painted over it to appear as vibrant as possible, so light transmits through the colour, hits the white Gesso, and is reflected back again.....much like a really good screen does.

http://artspectrum.com.au/products/primer/artists-acrylic-gesso/

 

The other is Derivan Fluro White .....I mean Fluro...How much Whiter can a White Get.[Does it scew the rest of the colour spectrum?].....I bought a tube of it years ago, and still have it around somewhere......I never had the test gear to find out about this one, but I do now, so it's got to be tested just to quell my curiosity.

http://www.derivan.com.au/assets/downloads/CC-student.pdf

I'm sort of expecting this White to push to the Blue spectrum [much like washing powder lightly tint's whites Blue to make them seem much more vibrant [white]

 

I'll paint a couple of striips painted with each, to see how much light each reflects in FTL's compared to the screen, using the same PJ and 100% White pluge test

Edited by Tweaky

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1 hour ago, Tweaky said:

Well the pictures posted above are of a 4K PJ projecting onto Flat, as close to Flat without being actually Flat, and weave Patten......they were shot from 60cm from the screen.

 

Look, and in cases like this, once you know what to look for, you will find it within your own system....annoying fact.

 

well id be surprised if from a JVC, because see for the image below,

 

24812482936_dfcb03e779_c.jpg

 

and this from a foot (300mm) away taken with a full frame DSLR and with lens to replicate human eye perspective 

 

24471140189_cd55c39f40_k.jpg

 

I can tell you even if I uploaded the full uncompressed shot of the second you still wont see any pixels. thats the difference with the jvc can put your nose to it ... there are no pixels with the pixel shift engaged :) the jvcs are and have always been very film- like

 

ps the presumes you are not using a beyond human vision perspective lens eg a macro or tele zoom something at that sort of distance. because perhaps then see something but be beyond what your eyes will pick up and even at that sort of close distance which in my mind would have no bearing on viewing as such. not really into pixel peeping.

 

where screen gain comes in these days ... is if going for too big a screen for throw that cant get enough lumens. not enough for 12 FL at centre or say 30FL for HDR. if can manage that then will need more gain or bring projector into a shorter zoom or use a smaller screen. something can explore with projector central calculator will get you in ball park even if not something id rely on to much :)   

 

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SMPTE standard is 14FT/LB for 2D

SMPTE standard for 3D is only 4.5FT/LB.....Circa 2013

The latter can easily be bettered with the latest JVC PJ's in standard mode.

 

GREAT 3D playback is my 'Must Have'....4K secondary.....Hence my interest in screen gain...do I need it for 3D ?

 

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10 hours ago, Tweaky said:

SMPTE standard is 14FT/LB for 2D

SMPTE standard for 3D is only 4.5FT/LB.....Circa 2013

The latter can easily be bettered with the latest JVC PJ's in standard mode.

 

GREAT 3D playback is my 'Must Have'....4K secondary.....Hence my interest in screen gain...do I need it for 3D ?

 

 

depends on your screen size vs throw. with my jvc and screen vs throw I still have the jvc only on low lamp. 

 

4.5 FL for brightness is pitiful wont be enough for 3D its why in many commercial theatres 3D is so pathetic. 

 

the smpte spec is 14 +/-3 with as low as 9FL accepted. this is for commercial massive screens though. we achieve much better uniformity across comparatively very much smaller domestic screens. so given uniformity across screen where 14FL measured in centre is decent for 2D though in my use I find as low as 12FL is quite adequate. 

 

in my projector travels over the years, one site I found helped me a lot with the goldmine if info it is ...is harkness screens

 

worth searching through the site, quite a bit of great info that will help,

 

http://www.harkness-screens.com/publications.html

 

4k HDR for most is a bigger challenge than 3D these days. but if can achieve 30 FL on screen to cater for HDR with something up the sleeve in reserve then 3D will be no issue.

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I think I will be OK brightness wise.

Screen dimension for UHD / 16:9 = 245cm Diagonal or 213cm Width....throw distance is pretty close to exactly 4m.

The lounge room is painted a matt Purple colour like below, maybe just a bit lighter, which works well at killing any light reflections from the screen, while still keeping the room livable when not doing HT duties.

Dpurple.jpg.d147e967f42eeb2596fdaa71c36e94ae.jpg

 

My only weakness with PJ screen viewing ATM is light bouncing from the screen onto the White ceiling, which I think I can sort with a modification of my [still on the drawing board] DIY variable screen masking / screen tensioning system.......it's just a variation / upgrade of a evolving design I've been using for the last few years.

 

Which reminds me, I should head off to Bunnings and see if they have something suitable for the basis of the build

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I'm pretty sure Screen Technics currently come in 1.0 gain (white) and 0.8 gain (grey) according to the website.

Edited by Satanica

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Both Screen Technics and LP Morgan USED to give far more specific info on their respective websites about their products, LP Morgan doesn't even have a website since the Hansa group bought them.

 

In either case it's moot anyway as far as my needs are concerned, as both basically only do a single standard 1:1 White and a single Grey screen in motorized drop down guise.

 

I Just got back from Bunnings with the materials needed for the frame work of the new variable Screen Masking / Screen tensioning system......I'm looking forward to this.

 

Now I have the stuff in front of me, I think I might even be able to make it so I can just leave the top pelmut section in place, and assemble / disassemble the rest of it in a matter of minutes, so when not in use, I can just take it out of the lounge room and store it leaning up in a corner somewhere.

 

Now off to Ebay to order a stack or two of Neodymium magnets ;)

Edited by Tweaky

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