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DOES YOUR POWER CORD COMPLY?


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US power cords are most likely fine when used with 120V gear on a step-down transformer, but not on a power conditioner that delivers 240V but happens to have US style sockets. The cables are usually rated 125V. 
 

Personally, I think they’ll be fine in that situation if they meet US regulations, but they would certainly not be legal and could void your insurance if the house burns down (or worse). 

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38 minutes ago, metal beat said:

Do these checks get done before US power cords and DIY cords are approved for the Stereonet classifieds?

 

Personally, I've always been against the sale and promotion of non-compliant products. As you know, we introduced the electrical disclaimer and enforce that on DIY products Shane. If I had my way, we'd not allow non-compliant power cords too. These can be difficult to police remotely though, and to the best of my knowledge it is not illegal nor is there any liability on StereoNET, for the 2nd hand sale of these by a third-party. If I am wrong on this, then I would be most willing to remove the ability to post these products in future.

Also not sure why you're directing this topic at me/us now though? We don't make the rules and regulations relating to electrical safety.

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1 hour ago, Marc said:

It's so hypothetical, that it's not relevant.

 

US plugs or any plug that is not AU standard is not compliant in Australia and illegal to use. As suggested by many, if it were found to be the cause of a fire, it would instantly be used as an insurance claim dismissal.

 

I have been through this extensively and spoken with all the right people (and obtained all the relevant standards) prior to our first hi-fi show. We also had an inspector come around (unannounced) on the first day checking exhibitor's compliance (being a public event).

Hi Marc,

 

Do you know what it is about US AC plugs being used in Australia that could possibly cause a fire?

 

Surely it cannot be due to inappropriate current/voltage ratings because the IEC plugs on the other end of any such cable are the same that are commonly used on most power cables made anywhere in the world and rated for use in both the USA (15A/110V) as well as  Australia (10A/250V)?

 

This seeming inconsistency in universal application between AC and IEC plugs has always baffled me.

 

I completely understand the legalities of compliance but wish to understand the technical aspects of what is objectionable about using US plugs in Australia.

 

Cheers

 

Chris

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I have been using Nordost Valhalla power cords with US plugs for almost 15 years.

 

  The IEC plug is the same shape as the shitty 10 cent IEC connectors, but better quality.

  I also have another certified Valhalla pc, AU plug with the same iec plug and cable as my dodgy US Valhalla pc.

 

  I guess it must be the physical US power plug that causes all these fires, as that is the ONLY difference. 

 

  I must be one of the luckiest guys on earth that my system and house has not burnt down yet,  in 15 years of using them.   ?

 

  Again, this is despite my electrician stating that the build quality was far superior than normal AU certified power cables and outlets. 

 

  Personally,  I cannot see how any respected US company could make power cables that could cause fires due to the US plug connector.

Edited by metal beat
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34 minutes ago, Aperalim said:

 

I completely understand the legalities of compliance but wish to understand the technical aspects of what is objectionable about using US plugs in Australia.

 

Technically, 15A/110V means thicker copper, thinner insulation, and 10A/240V means thinner copper, thicker insulation. In practice (not legal practice) it doesn't matter much since the safety margins are huge.

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2 minutes ago, Steffen said:

Technically, 15A/110V means thicker copper, thinner insulation, and 10A/240V means thinner copper, thicker insulation. In practice (not legal practice) it doesn't matter much since the safety margins are huge.

Understood,  BUT what I cannot understand is while IEC plugs are rated for both 10A/250V AND 15A/110V why are US AC plugs that are rated for 15A/110V considered to be fire hazards if used in Australia while IEC plugs are not?

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6 minutes ago, Aperalim said:

Understood,  BUT what I cannot understand is while IEC plugs are rated for both 10A/250V AND 15A/110V why are US AC plugs that are rated for 15A/110V considered to be fire hazards if used in Australia while IEC plugs are not?

My first thought on it is that the US plugs are not necessarily fire hazards themselves but if they were found to be the source of a fire say from faulty wiring they won't be covered by insurance.

 

It could also be to do with the rating as theoretically a 15A/110V US plug is only good for 1650 watts when compared to a 10A/250V plugs 2500 watts.

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1 hour ago, Martykt said:

My first thought on it is that the US plugs are not necessarily fire hazards themselves but if they were found to be the source of a fire say from faulty wiring they won't be covered by insurance.

 

It could also be to do with the rating as theoretically a 15A/110V US plug is only good for 1650 watts when compared to a 10A/250V plugs 2500 watts.

Yes understood re faulty wiring but isn't that rating incompatibility absurd when IEC plug on other end is rated and approved for both??

Edited by Aperalim
typo
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5 minutes ago, Aperalim said:

Yes understood re faulty wiring but isn't that rating incompatibility absurd when IEC plug on other ens is rated and approved for both??

Not really as a power cords rating would be whatever happens to be the smallest rated component of the cord which in this example would be either the wires depending on their rating or more to the point the US plug. 

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Is it correct that high current AC (15A) will ordinarily require larger gauge wire compared to a lower current AC (10A)?

 

Would you expect that using US 15A AC plugs in Australia would somehow be dangerous?

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1 hour ago, Aperalim said:

Is it correct that high current AC (15A) will ordinarily require larger gauge wire compared to a lower current AC (10A)?

 

Would you expect that using US 15A AC plugs in Australia would somehow be dangerous?

Not necessarily as from an engineering perspective it's how many watts a wire is capable of that will matter which is a combination of voltage and current.

If you're working with 15A/110V you only need a gauge capable of 1650 watts.

 

In a practical sense as long as your component doesn't draw more than 1650 watts it should be perfectly safe to use a US power cord.

Most audiophile US power cords that I've seen (excluding cheap dodgy cords and knockoffs) are highly over engineered and would most likely exceed Australias ratings anyway.

 

The only other thing to be aware of is that in a US cord the active and neutral wires are reversed when compared to their Australian counterparts.

I have been told by a mutual friend (I'm sure you can guess who) that this is detrimental to the sound quality.

This can also mean that the neutral is switched on and off in your component rather than the active wire so can theoretically create a shock hazard.

More of an issue with something like a toaster as it's open whereas you component will be fully cased and earthed.

Edited by Martykt
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7 hours ago, Aperalim said:

Is it correct that high current AC (15A) will ordinarily require larger gauge wire compared to a lower current AC (10A)?

 

Would you expect that using US 15A AC plugs in Australia would somehow be dangerous?

Yes, a higher current rating requires a thicker gauge.

 

However, the issue isn't the current, but the voltage rating. In theory, a 125V rated plug may have insufficiently sized gaps or insulation between terminals, and using it at higher voltages than specified (including the higher voltage spikes to be expected) could lead to arcing. In practice, see my comment above about huge safety margins.

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The current (pun?) overarching AUS standard is AS/NZS 3000:2018. It costs ~$200 and has lots & lots of pages.

What you seek is in here. Happy reading.

Let me save you some time. There are no moot points, or red herrings in there.

 

Also, there aren't  any references to the following:

  • My Electrician said...
  • Power points and plugs don't burn houses down...
  • Isn't that the same thing... they look the same quality!?

May I say, I find it frustrating when laymen find it difficult to accept competent answers to their lay questions.

Maybe, don't ask the question if you may not like the answer.

 

Now go away, or I shall taunt you a second time!

 

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20 hours ago, vong said:

Hi all,

 

I see a lot of cables and power conditions with US plugs and sockets in the classifieds and want to know why people buy/use those instead of AU ones?

Because they don’t know any better!

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9 hours ago, Aperalim said:

Understood,  BUT what I cannot understand is while IEC plugs are rated for both 10A/250V AND 15A/110V why are US AC plugs that are rated for 15A/110V considered to be fire hazards if used in Australia while IEC plugs are not?

Lawyers, not engineers ;)

 

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6 minutes ago, Steffen said:

Lawyers, not engineers ;)

 

So do you mean the same arcing hazard from insufficiently large dielectric gaps between conductors in US AC plugs operating in Australia also exists in 'universally rated' IEC plugs meaning every power cable with an IEC plug attached presents the same risk regardless of what AC plug is on the other end?

 

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what about those piddly little figure 8 plugs ,I have seen them used on heaps of hifi including amplifiers, you can't tell me that they are more safe than an iec plug or for that matter a usa power plug.

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1 hour ago, Aperalim said:

So do you mean the same arcing hazard from insufficiently large dielectric gaps between conductors in US AC plugs operating in Australia also exists in 'universally rated' IEC plugs meaning every power cable with an IEC plug attached presents the same risk regardless of what AC plug is on the other end?

 

No, I was talking about the US power plug. An IEC plug that is rated both 15A/125V and 10A/250V is in effect rated 15A/250V. Carrying two ratings can only have its root in laws, regulations, etc. but not in physical reality.

 

The overall rating of a power cable is of course the lowest of its components, i.e. power plug, cable and IEC plug.

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Just to be clear, I'm not hating on laws and regulations, I'm only saying that there are technical and non-technical reasons for things to be the way they are.

 

Besides technical requirements (minimum gauge, insulation) there are also non-technical requirements such as making the use of mains power fool proof.

 

One of the fool-proofing regulations is that for 15A/250V applications a different device plug is prescribed (C19/C20 instead of C13/C14). If 15A/250V appliances in Australia were allowed to use 15A rated C13/C14 plugs (like the ones used in the US) then people who are ignorant about these ratings (i.e. most) could plug a regular 10A power cord in and connect the 15A appliance to 10A mains wiring.

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13 minutes ago, Steffen said:

Just to be clear, I'm not hating on laws and regulations, I'm only saying that there are technical and non-technical reasons for things to be the way they are.

 

Besides technical requirements (minimum gauge, insulation) there are also non-technical requirements such as making the use of mains power fool proof.

 

One of the fool-proofing regulations is that for 15A/250V applications a different device plug is prescribed (C19/C20 instead of C13/C14). If 15A/250V appliances in Australia were allowed to use 15A rated C13/C14 plugs (like the ones used in the US) then people who are ignorant about these ratings (i.e. most) could plug a regular 10A power cord in and connect the 15A appliance to 10A mains wiring.

Understood and appreciated.

As much as anything I have always been intrigued by how vehemently some members on this site oppose use of US plugs/sockets and wondered what was the root of this opposition – user's safety; legal compliance; insurance risk?   I guess most will cite 'all of the above'.  The engineering specifics still intrigue me.

Cheers

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2 hours ago, ray4410 said:

what about those piddly little figure 8 plugs ,I have seen them used on heaps of hifi including amplifiers, you can't tell me that they are more safe than an iec plug or for that matter a usa power plug.

Those "piddly little figure 8 plugs" are not rated to 10A.

 

IF you use a 10A plug/socket, you MUST (by law) use 10A cables/connectors etc to connect it.

So if a company manufactures devices that only draw 3.4A, why would a manufacturer spend more money on more expensive 10A plugs/sockets/connectors/cables.

 

There are a number of different compliant single phase AC sockets & plugs used in Australia, to suit different different applications. All the way up to 32A.

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"it will burn your house down" 

Is very similar to

"speed kills" 

 

It's a blanket saying that police/insurance companies /lawyers /governments come up with to market a law.. 

 

All electrical equipment in Australia has to be certified. 

 

Anything not certified in the law makers eyes is illegal, therefore, "it will burn your house down" 

 

Lots of things that are not certified or are illegal in Australia are of a far higher and safer standard than the approved product, but some are dangerous and inferior.. 

 

Therefore anything not certified 

 

Will burn your house down. 

 

 

Source: my electrician, who is an opinionated bastard. 

 

And just happens to be me.. 

 

 

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And on a side note.. 

 

Back when I was a boy and still licking wires it was illegal to have a C19 plug (larger square IEC plug) with a 10A 3 pin plug at the other end.. 

 

The C19 is rated at 15A and you are not allowed to have a 10A plug at the other end.. 

 

I do not know if they are still illegal or not, but they are being sold here is Australia and supposedly build per a standard. 

 

Used properly, they do not create an safety issue, I use them all the time in the telco game for routers with switch mode power supplies that are rated 110v/15A or 240v/7A. They will never pull close to 10A

 

Safe as houses in an controlled environment. 

 

The Australian electrical regs are tough, they take into account that people do silly things, like take said lead out of its controlled environment and plug in the heater for their distillery at home and cook their sh1tty old 10A GPO and 'burn their house down' 

 

Does anyone know the regulations or what Australian Standard are for a C19 to 10A 3 pin lead? 

 

I am guessing that manufactured leads fall under a different standard than AS3000 which did state it was illegal to modify that way, but I haven't read that in years, am to be honest haven't looked at the current version. 

 

Edit.. 

https://www.radioparts.com.au/product/27752618/-?CAWELAID=120007580000007278&CATARGETID=120007580000186846&CADevice=m&gclid=CjwKCAjwvZv0BRA8EiwAD9T2VSWYgAuAvmfdbcBLEdtKl14yhZfTeoFgG05WM61rTpWYXg2a9MHXBRoCx7cQAvD_BwE#.Xob3t2k7adM

Edited by Hytram
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On 03/04/2020 at 6:10 PM, Hytram said:

Lots of things that are not certified or are illegal in Australia are of a far higher and safer standard than the approved product,

This is not my experience.

On 03/04/2020 at 6:43 PM, Hytram said:

Does anyone know the regulations or what Australian Standard are for a C19 to 10A 3 pin lead? 

C19 is 15A. Everything in chain has to rated at 15A or higher. Both Plug & socket have to be same current rating.

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