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Turntable mats, what is hot and what is not?

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14 hours ago, Dave O))) said:

Only caveat is that will leave residue on LPs that are left on it for some hours, which would be an unusual occurrence for the average garden variety OCD audiophi

 

Call me odd but I reckon using a turntable mat that can leave a residue on your record would piss off pretty much everyone.

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16 hours ago, soundfan said:

I use a Resomat, and haven't changed it in over 4 years now.:) 

 

stackedplatter_zps67c746e1.jpg

 

I have found that mats which support the vinyl at points and not across the whole of its surface cause subtle speed variations as the due to the record bowing down between the bumps. The 'ee-awe' sound as the stylus ride ups hill and down dale is audible when playing a wow & flutter test record, and also in the sustain of piano notes, for example.

 

Having tried a lot of mats on a lot of turntables, my go-to mat for a glass, thin (~12mm) acrylic platter is a Herbie's Audio Lab Way Excellent II Turntable Mat: http://herbiesaudiolab.net/ttmat.htm  I haven't tried one on a cast typical japanese cast aluminium platter, but my inclination would be to try one on top of the original rubber mat, not instead of.

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Just now, johnmath said:

 

I have found that mats which support the vinyl at points and not across the whole of its surface cause subtle speed variations as the due to the record bowing down between the bumps. The 'ee-awe' sound as the stylus ride ups hill and down dale is audible when playing a wow & flutter test record, and also in the sustain of piano notes, for example.

 

Having tried a lot of mats on a lot of turntables, my go-to mat for a glass, thin (~12mm) acrylic platter is a Herbie's Audio Lab Way Excellent II Turntable Mat: http://herbiesaudiolab.net/ttmat.htm  I haven't tried one on a cast typical japanese cast aluminium platter, but my inclination would be to try one on top of the original rubber mat, not instead of.

Mmmmm.

Well I have an external speed controller and psu (Phoenix Engineering Roadrunner and Eagle), and have no fluctuations in speed.

I'm not by any stretch saying the mat I use is the bee's knee's, but it works well on my Lenco. :)

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17 hours ago, rantan said:

 

Thanks mate, it really is sweet and it is currently undergoing a service and cart fit from @johnmath.  It does indeed have a fairly decent weight rubber mat. I am having the RCA's replaced also and having a proper ground terminal fitted.

 The HITACHI looks real nice - l have a P17 in great condtion but the auto return is faulty- l should get it fixed.

Back on subject  -  l have tried a few different styled rubber mats and my current cork mat, but l dont hear any changes. The cork mat can slip on the platter, but 3 small bits of Blutack stops that.

 

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5 hours ago, mloutfie said:

Thanks won't work well in my case then there is a few records I won really need a clamp to be played flat. In the same note what is the recommended mat for an acrylic platter. I used to use acrylic mat on a metal and glass platter and haven't used a mat ever since I change the turntable with a acrylic platter. or better just save some money to get a delrin platter :P

 

You may have missed the point of the minimal contact.

It really doesn't make much difference if one point doesn't contact due to a slight warp. Minimal contact is ideal. OTOH, warps have their own inherent problems, but that has nothing to do with the turntable mat.

 

I have had a few acrylic platter turntables (eg VPI, Pink Triangle), and basically I found it best to have NO mat. 

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2 hours ago, Hergest said:

 

Call me odd but I reckon using a turntable mat that can leave a residue on your record would piss off pretty much everyone.

 

You just need to wash it, and then no residue problem.

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Thanks to everyone for the replies so far and please keep the ideas flowing.

 

I think at this stage, I might just settle in with the TT and the stock rubber mat and see how that goes. As time goes by I may try to borrow a few different mats to see what, if any, changes occur. Given my modest record collection so far ( 25 ) it may be best buying some more music and building up the collection. I do have a couple of records on the way from Bandcamp and am looking forward to hearing them in my system

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2 hours ago, johnmath said:

 

I have found that mats which support the vinyl at points and not across the whole of its surface cause subtle speed variations as the due to the record bowing down between the bumps. The 'ee-awe' sound as the stylus ride ups hill and down dale is audible when playing a wow & flutter test record, and also in the sustain of piano notes, for example.

 

Having tried a lot of mats on a lot of turntables, my go-to mat for a glass, thin (~12mm) acrylic platter is a Herbie's Audio Lab Way Excellent II Turntable Mat: http://herbiesaudiolab.net/ttmat.htm  I haven't tried one on a cast typical japanese cast aluminium platter, but my inclination would be to try one on top of the original rubber mat, not instead of.

 

Surely only on lps that aren't flat? An lp is pretty rigid when supported by 9 points and I can't see any bowing on a standard 120 gm lp, let alone a 180 gm one.

 

And I'd say that I'm pretty sensitive to pitch variation (esp piano). 

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3 minutes ago, rantan said:

 

Thanks to everyone for the replies so far and please keep the ideas flowing.

 

I think at this stage, I might just settle in with the TT and the stock rubber mat and see how that goes. As time goes by I may try to borrow a few different mats to see what, if any, changes occur. Given my modest record collection so far ( 25 ) it may be best buying some more music and building up the collection. I do have a couple of records on the way from Bandcamp and am looking forward to hearing them in my system

 

Exactly, totally agree that that is the best approach right now.

 

Just enjoy playing your records for now, and buying more lps. Tweaking is secondary to enjoying your new sounds, and it will only be after listening for a while that you'll identify any areas, if any, that could improve.

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...........Although there's nothing quite as satisfying than pampering your records with a lovely suede mat and thinking "my LP's will love me", and they do, because they sound fantastic......:D Suede on an old LP as mentioned before is the best sounding platter mat I've had.:thumb: Of course, I haven't tried everything.....;):)

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19 minutes ago, stevoz said:

...........Although there's nothing quite as satisfying than pampering your records with a lovely suede mat and thinking "my LP's will love me", and they do, because they sound fantastic......:D Suede on an old LP as mentioned before is the best sounding platter mat I've had.:thumb: Of course, I haven't tried everything.....;):)

 

Just for sh*ts & g*ggles ... try the suede mat the other way up - ie. 'leather' side touching the LP.  ;)

 

I found this made an improvement ... although I have since moved onto a different mat.  (I have a mate who keeps experimenting with different mats.  :D )

 

Andy

 

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22 hours ago, rantan said:

 

@Citroen

This one,but it will be fitted with a Denon DL 301 cart. It is in perfect condition and everything works superbly. Speed accuracy is really good.

Hitachi.jpeg

Rantan, Citroen said mats are turntable dependent.  I am inclined to agree but would pay particular attention to the platter, or at least the platter material.  Is that a metal platter?  If so then (as has also been alluded to) you need an isolating platter more than a coupling platter.  Your (presumed) metal platter may be damped underneath, probably with rubber.  However that is not sufficient and you can likely prove that to yourself by removing the platter and tapping it with a spoon.  I am sure it will ring.  If so that is a big no-no and the some of resonances it produces from the cartridge, bearing etc will find their way back to the stylus and ultimately, via the speakers, to your ears.  My suggestions.  (1) Oyaide BR One that will damp the platter because of its butyl content.  (2) Funk Firm Achromat.  The Achromats are popular with Technics turntables that have an aluminium platter.

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2 hours ago, andyr said:

 

Just for sh*ts & g*ggles ... try the suede mat the other way up - ie. 'leather' side touching the LP.  ;)

 

I found this made an improvement ... although I have since moved onto a different mat.  (I have a mate who keeps experimenting with different mats.  :D )

 

Andy

 

Can't, it's suede both sides:P....two thin pieces stuck together. Nice mat, from Germany.:)

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I use the following mats in combination.

 

Herbies Way Excellent II Mat

Extreme Phono Speed carbon graphite mat (without the None-Felt Mat Mk3)

 

The effect is immediately apparent and invariably better than the original Once Analog mat. The Herbies' Way Excellent II mat on its own is also an improvement over the Once mat, and better than the Extreme Phono None-Felt Mat, though both are very good. The Herbies plus the Speed is better than the None-Felt plus the Speed in my listening. 

 

I have tried the Millenium carbon graphite mat, which looks almost identical to the Extreme Phono. The Extreme Phono is audibly superior, and radically cheaper.

 

I've tried the Origin Live Upgrade Mat - wanted to like it, but didn't.

 

As I always play my records with 1.4kg of centre weight and 1kg of ring weight, the resilience of the Herbies' mat material may be a factor in my preference for the sound, compared to the None-Felt Mat (which might be compressed somewhat by the record weights).

 

Cheers,

Warren in Bronte

Edited by Warren M.

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Check Oyaide tungsten infused butyl rubber mat with a record weight for direct drive decks. I have used a lot of mats and this is the best combination on my Technics

Sent from my D6503 using Tapatalk

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On 11/3/2017 at 2:56 PM, Citroen said:

 

Surely only on lps that aren't flat? An lp is pretty rigid when supported by 9 points and I can't see any bowing on a standard 120 gm lp, let alone a 180 gm one.

 

And I'd say that I'm pretty sensitive to pitch variation (esp piano). 

 

The degradation caused by suspending an LP on a few points is not only audible, but is easily measured with Dr Feickert's wow & flutter meter. My measurements were on a turntable with very low wow & flutter of the platter - lower than what is being contributed by the point suspension of the record. BTW my copy of Dr Feickert's own 3150 Hz speed test disk has significant wow & flutter recorded onto it and is pretty useless for measuring really decent turntables. Instead I use a ClearAudio 180 gram test disc with 3150 Hz speed track which is much more revealing of woe & flutter contributed by the turntable.

Edited by johnmath

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I tend to agree. I have a Michell Hydraulic Reference which overall sounds sh*thouse and (having spent a fair bit of time and hopefully fixed most of the motor and tonearm mount problems) lay the blame on the point mounting of the record on the platter.

 

ron

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Cork looks great IMO and  cork/neoprene  is the best static wise.  It is also heavier and gives more damping.   It also can be purchased from Auto shops where it is sold for making gaskets, making it cheap and easy to try.

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On 3/25/2017 at 11:26 AM, aussievintage said:

Cork looks great IMO ...

I agree.  I've got the Origin Live mat and a Funk Achromat but I have to say they are both pretty bland looking.  I do have a problem with static.  Putting a pot-plant near the TT helps a bit!  Anyway, does cork by itself ameliorate static? 

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I also use the Way Excellent II Turntable Mat with his  SuperSonic Record Stabilizer on my TD 160 excellent combination, but these look very interesting SPEC Analog Disc Sheet.

spec mat.jpg

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1 hour ago, SL1200 said:

 Anyway, does cork by itself ameliorate static? 

 

 

I don't think it's as bad as felt and stuff like that, but I think I did get some when I tried it on one of my tables.  However, the cork/neoprene combo seems static free everywhere I have tried it.

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So, just as an update. I am, unfortunately not getting the magic and I am not sure and change of matt will reveal it.

 

This is really tangential but what level of TT do I need to buy that would make me wish to listen as much as I do to my Rega Saturn. There is simply no comparison at the moment and I would dearly love it to be making me joyous. My amp has a great phono stage. I have a brand new Denon 301 LOMC and it has been tweaked and serviced by a vinyl master

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I think you may be referring to the usual dryness direct drives seem to have vs belt drive tables. That Hitachi is a direct drive is it not?

I find that my JVC QL7 plays it where it is whereas my Ariston RD110 SL colours the sound. Both sound incredible in their own way. The Ariston has there edge though being a suspended table is highly susceptible to external vibration.

My direct drive is the daily driver due to its ease of use and excellent tracking with external vibration which make it easier to live with. The Ariston is more engaging to listen to though.

In the end, I'm glad to have both. Just wish my wife would let me keep a third table. A nice idler would be sweet. :)

Sent from my Redmi Pro using Tapatalk

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