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Peter-C

Mober Bearing Housing for LP12

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Seems Edmund has been working on a new bearing housing for his SSP12 inner platter.

It appears to be a double ball race design going by the cross-section diagram on the Linn forum.

The Mober certainly spins a lot longer than the Cirkus bearing. I wonder if there is any difference in SQ.

Mober bearing housing:

Linn Cirkus bearing housing:

 

 

 

 

DSC_4936.jpg

97acd4dd-70f5-4994-aa4c-78ffa5437a0a.jpg

Edited by Peter-C

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Well I have the inner platter but haven't purchased the Cirkus bearing housing yet.  Perhaps I should wait and see where this goes :wacko:

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23 minutes ago, Peter-C said:

Seems Edmund has been working on a new bearing housing for his SSP12 inner platter.

It appears to be a double ball race design going by the cross-section diagram on the Linn forum.

The Mober certainly spins a lot longer than the Cirkus bearing. I wonder if there is any difference in SQ.

Mober bearing housing:

Linn Cirkus bearing housing:

 

 

 

 

DSC_4936.jpg

97acd4dd-70f5-4994-aa4c-78ffa5437a0a.jpg

 

How very interesting, Peter!  :thumb:

 

I wonder how relevant it is for those of us who have purchased the Tiger-Paw "Tranquility" - given this causes the load of the end of the platter stub on the thrust plate at the bottom of the bearing to be reduced by 90%?

 

9 minutes ago, tesla13BMW said:

Well I have the inner platter but haven't purchased the Cirkus bearing housing yet.  Perhaps I should wait and see where this goes :wacko:

 

I think you most certainly should, Chris!  :)

 

Andy

 

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6 minutes ago, andyr said:

I wonder how relevant it is for those of us who have purchased the Tiger-Paw "Tranquility" - given this causes the load of the end of the platter stub on the thrust plate at the bottom of the bearing to be reduced by 90%?

Yeah, I was about to order a Tranquility myself :unsure:

 

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The ball race is giving the tangential support to the inner platter / spindle but I would think there would have to be some mating surface at the bottom of the spindle for vertical support.  I'd expect that the ball race is just an alternative to the bearing liners i.e. the black or the white etc.

 

So this "free running" bearing may be good for the mober and other DC power supplies, but, I thought I had read for the synchronous motors there was a desire for drag to gain a smoother drive and reduce cogging???

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The ball race is giving the tangential support to the inner platter / spindle but I would think there would have to be some mating surface at the bottom of the spindle for vertical support.  I'd expect that the ball race is just an alternative to the bearing liners i.e. the black or the white etc.
 
So this "free running" bearing may be good for the mober and other DC power supplies, but, I thought I had read for the synchronous motors there was a desire for drag to gain a smoother drive and reduce cogging???


Would this work on an Ariston RD110 SL?

Sent from my Redmi Pro using Tapatalk

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9 minutes ago, MattyW said:

 

 


Would this work on an Ariston RD110 SL?

Sent from my Redmi Pro using Tapatalk
 

 

See what others say about the loading on the bearing.  But, I would think the Ariston would be using a synchronous motor as well.

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47 minutes ago, tesla13BMW said:

 

So this "free running" bearing may be good for the mober and other DC power supplies, but, I thought I had read for the synchronous motors there was a desire for drag to gain a smoother drive and reduce cogging???

 

 

Yeah, using silicon oil for this reason was suggested by Simon on PFM (and AudioFlat) many years ago.

 

But I think I read that he had taken out his silicon oil when he installed either his Edmund Chan inner platter or the Mober DC drive?

 

 

Andy

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7 minutes ago, andyr said:

 

Yeah, using silicon oil for this reason was suggested by Simon on PFM (and AudioFlat) many years ago.

 

But I think I read that he had taken out his silicon oil when he installed either his Edmund Chan inner platter or the Mober DC drive?

 

 

Andy

 

So @andyr what would be your educated thought on using the bearing with the #9 speed controller be given you have control over the phase angle?

 

I guess this is somewhat irrelevant until someone gets hold of one and puts it on a AC synchronous motor TT

 

I vote Andy!  The circus is the only thing Linn on your table now isn't it and the outer platter? 

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The ball race is giving the tangential support to the inner platter / spindle but I would think there would have to be some mating surface at the bottom of the spindle for vertical support.  I'd expect that the ball race is just an alternative to the bearing liners i.e. the black or the white

The diagram seems to indicate there are 2 ball races and a thrust pad.
I'll have to ask Edmund when I get a chance (and get a price).



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1 hour ago, tesla13BMW said:

 

So @andyr what would be your educated thought on using the bearing with the #9 speed controller be given you have control over the phase angle?

 

I guess this is somewhat irrelevant until someone gets hold of one and puts it on a AC synchronous motor TT

 

I vote Andy!  The circus is the only thing Linn on your table now isn't it and the outer platter? 

 

I don't think there will be any problem using Edmund's Mober bearing with the Number9 speed controller.

 

Currently, the only Linn components on my 'SkeletaLinn' are:

  • yes, the Cirkus bearing
  • the springs & grommets, and
  • the outer platter.

Although I am going to do an experiment one of these days, due to something @metamatic said.  Shane said one of his TTs (solid plinthed) sounded 'faster' when he used stiffer springs under the slab which the TT feet were sitting on ... and more relaxed & mellow when softer springs were used.

 

So I will substitute the 30%-stiffer springs that I had made up when I developed v1 of the 'SkeletaLinn', for the Linn springs I'm using now.  (Due to the LHS spring being too close to the cross-brace supporting the Cirkus bearing in v1 of the TT, there was too much weight pressing down on this spring - so it needed to be stiffer.  In my SkeletaLinn (v2), I moved the LHS spring 50mm further away from the bearing and achieved an almost equal weight distribution across the 3 springs - hence, I can use Linn springs.

 

Also, I'm toying with the idea of getting Duc (when he's well again) to make up a custom Delrin outer platter with rim-loading of lead shot.  Overall weight of the EC inner platter + Delrin outer platter will be the same as Linn's ... but there will be increased weight at the periphery - to increase the flywheel effect.

 

So if the Mober bearing is a goer, by the time I finish I won't have any Linn bits left!!  :D

 

9 minutes ago, Peter-C said:


The diagram seems to indicate there are 2 ball races and a thrust pad.
I'll have to ask Edmund when I get a chance (and get a price).
 

 

Yes - so if there's still a thrust plate ... the 'Tranquility' should still be a good complement. :thumb:

 

Andy

 

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I read it is no good for Hercules or Valhalla due to the bearing housing being bigger and not going through the round hole in the PCB.

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1 hour ago, tesla13BMW said:

I read it is no good for Hercules or Valhalla due to the bearing housing being bigger and not going through the round hole in the PCB.

 

Yes, I read that - and possibly Lingo, too.  NP with my SkeletaLinn - see the 1st pic in Clive's post here:

 

Andy

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No good for me until I can replace the Valhalla :(

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10 hours ago, andyr said:

 

 

I wonder how relevant it is for those of us who have purchased the Tiger-Paw "Tranquility" - given this causes the load of the end of the platter stub on the thrust plate at the bottom of the bearing to be reduced by 90%?

 

Andy

 

Roger does a shite load of work for most of the F1 teams.....Tiger Paw is His "side line' so to speak..

He studied the cirkus bearing and concluded its about as good as it gets for its application...i.e. low noise and friction...so the tranquillity was born.

 

Edmunds effort seems to have A LOT of contact points...lots of points lots of potential noise...even with a tranquillity...

 

All speculation of course ...but until one hears it....;)...however good a promo video is..

 

Tase.

 

Just a footnote a remember reading in the HIfi press back in the 70's why Linn used a single point thrust plate affair over a ball race type set up...

 

Edited by Tasebass

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3 minutes ago, Tasebass said:

Roger does a shite load of work for most of the F1 teams.....Tiger Paw is His "side line' so to speak..

He studied the cirkus bearing and concluded its about as good as it gets for its application...i.e. low noise and friction...so the tranquillity was born.

 

Edmunds effort seems to have A LOT of contact points...lots of points lots of potential noise...even with a tranquillity...

 

All speculation of course ...but until one hears it....;)...however good a promo video is..

 

Tase.

 

 

C'mon, Tase! :P

 

So Edmund's Mober bearing has a pair of ball races.  So if there are, say, 10 ball bearings in each race ... there are 20 contact points.  Do you agree?

 

Whereas the Cirkus bearing has sleeves around the inside of the bearing well - which contact the inner-platter bearing stub.  All the way up and all the way round the bearing stub.

 

So I would say the Linn bearing has many more sq cm of contact area than ball races have!  This logic would appear to be borne out by the fact that an inner platter in Edmund's Mober bearing housing spins for much longer than the same inner platter in a Cirkus bearing housing.

 

Andy

 

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19 minutes ago, andyr said:

 

C'mon, Tase! :P

 

So Edmund's Mober bearing has a pair of ball races.  So if there are, say, 10 ball bearings in each race ... there are 20 contact points.  Do you agree?

 

Whereas the Cirkus bearing has sleeves around the inside of the bearing well - which contact the inner-platter bearing stub.  All the way up and all the way round the bearing stub.

 

So I would say the Linn bearing has many more sq cm of contact area than ball races have!  This logic would appear to be borne out by the fact that an inner platter in Edmund's Mober bearing housing spins for much longer than the same inner platter in a Cirkus bearing housing.

 

Andy

 

 C'mon Andy....

We have metal to metal contact with Edmunds ......the cirkus is metal to PTFE...BIG difference...

Unless Edmund has some proprietary manufacturing techniques we don't know about...

As I said Roger figured the cirkus FOR ITS APPLICATION was about as good as it gets...

 

 

( wonder how many F1 teams Edmund contracts to....with respect..)

 

Tase

Edited by Tasebass

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Edmund has older Linn bearings, Cirkus bearings, Mober bearings, SSP12 inner platters and Linn inner platters.
Can't see the point in releasing something that doesn't sound better than the original.
Whether it's better than a standard Linn Cirkus bearing with a Tranquility...who knows?


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17 hours ago, andyr said:

 

C'mon, Tase! :P

 

So Edmund's Mober bearing has a pair of ball races.  So if there are, say, 10 ball bearings in each race ... there are 20 contact points.  Do you agree?

 

Whereas the Cirkus bearing has sleeves around the inside of the bearing well - which contact the inner-platter bearing stub.  All the way up and all the way round the bearing stub.

 

So I would say the Linn bearing has many more sq cm of contact area than ball races have!  This logic would appear to be borne out by the fact that an inner platter in Edmund's Mober bearing housing spins for much longer than the same inner platter in a Cirkus bearing housing.

 

Andy

 

Think you will find that there is no direct contact as the oil  film separates the shaft and bearing 

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2 hours ago, Chill3 said:

Think you will find that there is no direct contact as the oil  film separates the shaft and bearing 

 

That is a good point.  :thumb:              Surely, though, it must be a mighty thin film (of oil)!

 

Andy

 

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I hope if someone does install the new bearing that they take before and after audio recordings so that they can demonstrate that there is a change or improvement to the sound.

 

Strangely there are modifications for all manner of turntables and tonearms, but a dearth of audio recordings to demonstrate any improvement.

 

A 26" racing bicycle wheel spins for a long time too, but does that make its bearing suitable for a turntable? The point I'm trying to make is that there may be no correlation between spin down time and audio quality.

Or perhaps there is? But I've never heard any recording that proves it.

 

I wonder why the sellers of such products dont provide recordings to demonstrate their products superiority since if any claims are true, it should be demonstrable.

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2 hours ago, eltech said:

I hope if someone does install the new bearing that they take before and after audio recordings so that they can demonstrate that there is a change or improvement to the sound.

 

Strangely there are modifications for all manner of turntables and tonearms, but a dearth of audio recordings to demonstrate any improvement.

 

A 26" racing bicycle wheel spins for a long time too, but does that make its bearing suitable for a turntable? The point I'm trying to make is that there may be no correlation between spin down time and audio quality.

Or perhaps there is? But I've never heard any recording that proves it.

 

I wonder why the sellers of such products dont provide recordings to demonstrate their products superiority since if any claims are true, it should be demonstrable.

 

But given that a recording of a live music event always sounds degraded compared to the event listened to live ... why do you think that a before&after recording of the Mober will be able to show up the differences that you might be able to hear, live?

 

I suggest what is needed is 2 identical LP12 (same standard, same arm, same cart) side by side - listen to one ... then the other.

 

Andy

 

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@andyr now get a grip 

the point is to remove Ivor's upgrade compulsion NOT substitute Edmund for Ivor.

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4 hours ago, andyr said:

 

 

I suggest what is needed is 2 identical LP12 (same standard, same arm, same cart) side by side - listen to one ... then the other.

 

Andy

 

 

Na ya don't..

 

A crappy bearing will manifest itself quite clearly on any spec Sondek cause its performance benchmark starts and ends there...

Full Klimax Sondek with shitety bearing will not sound as good as a Majik Sondek with a top notch bearing..

 

 

Oooo and BTW...have ordered both platter and bearing off Edmund...:)

 

Tase

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